158 replies to this topic

[abty]

My question is if he lost his bat speed or was just recovering from a hand injury. He was getting beaten by pitches he normally would crush. He just looked 'off' but I can't tell if he's declining or still not 100% from the injury. I wonder how the Yankees really view his potential going forward, contract be damned.

[terrynever]

The really wierd thing is that A-Rod has stated on many occasions he's happy in NY and does not want to leave. He doesn't care that he's hated. Hell, the fans in Seattle really hate him, and the ones in Texas are glad he's gone. Most Yankee fans don't even understand what he's thinking when he does strange stuff on and off the field. Has any superstar alienated fans in three cities before?

I don't think the Yankees have ever had such a strange star player. Reggie had his complexities but you knew he always competed. A-Rod is off on his own island, still thinking he's capable of great things.

[Kilgore A. Trout]

The really wierd thing is that A-Rod has stated on many occasions he's happy in NY and does not want to leave. He doesn't care that he's hated. Hell, the fans in Seattle really hate him, and the ones in Texas are glad he's gone. Most Yankee fans don't even understand what he's thinking when he does strange stuff on and off the field. Has any superstar alienated fans in three cities before?

I don't think the Yankees have ever had such a strange star player. Reggie had his complexities but you knew he always competed. A-Rod is off on his own island, still thinking he's capable of great things.

Actually I think he doesn't care one smidge whether he can do great things or not anymore. Or what fans think of him. Or at all about baseball. He literally is what Sox fans accused JD Drew of all those years.

[ToeKneeArmAss]

As bad as A-Rod's contract is, it pales next to Fielder's. [/hijack]

[jon abbey]

Even worse than it seemed yesterday, whoo!

http://m.nypost.com/...pR0oskgNWGRrRpJ

[RedOctober3829]

Hear exclusively Alex Rodriguez was playing with re-tear in surgically repaired hip Likely going for another surgery #Yankees

A-Rod will miss at least piece of '13. Hope is surgery will allow for successful player again for #Yankees

So #Yankees now dealing with both Jeter and eventually A-Rod coming back from surgery. Desperately need left side IF help

Joel Sherman

https://twitter.com/...608088759906305

[armyguy25]

Its actually the other hip this time. So you're going to have to hope that the geriatric Arod can "become succesful player again" with two bad hips now.

Odds are not in his favor.

[bluefenderstrat]

He won't collect all those home run bonuses the way things are progressing, at least that's some solace for the front office.

Edited by bluefenderstrat, 03 December 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[PedroSpecialK]

Its actually the other hip this time. So you're going to have to hope that the geriatric Arod can "become succesful player again" with two bad hips now.

Odds are not in his favor.

Yup - per River Ave Blues via Joel Sherman this tear is in his left hip.

10:44am: Joel Sherman says the new labrum tear is in A-Rod‘s left hip, not the right. This is a new injury and not a re-tear of the labrum he had repaired in 2009. Recovery time is expected to be 3-6 months.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 03 December 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[AlNipper49]

ARod may be able to retire his fielding glove. I think it's safe to say he'll be their DH for the next five years unless something unforeseen happens.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Miss half the season? Might be a good thing for the Yanks

[LondonSox]

If missing half the season is a positive for the yanks then it has to be the worst contract in baseball right?
Until pujols goes to seed of course.

Then there's the vermin wells contract and Crawford contract and both of those were moved.
If someone can turn wells into Napoli (who is now a 3/36 player) with no money thrown in then maybe.... nah who am I kidding

[TheYaz67]

He won't collect all those home run bonuses the way things are progressing, at least that's some solace for the front office.

I'm really hoping he comes back later in 2013 and hits 12 HRs (or less), taking him to 659, so that the $ bonus for passing Mays at 660 falls in the 2014 "trying to stay under the cap" season....

At this rate, it may take another couple seasons to reach the next bonus after that.

Looking increasingly like an Albert Belle-like end to his career might be on the horizon...

[jon abbey]

Maybe this will be what makes NY realize they can't compete in 2014 and maybe can't compete in 2013 unless they spend some money on the lineup and postpone trying to get under $189M for a few years.

[zenter]

ARod may be able to retire his fielding glove. I think it's safe to say he'll be their DH for the next five years unless something unforeseen happens.

This may be a blessing in disguise for the Yankees - they can hide Jeter's mediocre range at 3B much better than they can at SS, unless I'm missing something.

[soxhop411]

.

Edited by soxhop411, 03 December 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[glennhoffmania]

This may be a blessing in disguise for the Yankees - they can hide Jeter's mediocre range at 3B much better than they can at SS, unless I'm missing something.

I think that the part you're missing is that Jeter would never agree to move to 3B.

[zenter]

I think that the part you're missing is that Jeter would never agree to move to 3B.

Maybe. I figure they can play the "Cal Ripken" card, and talk about how it prolonged his career, etc. But maybe his ego's too big to do something, well, sensible.

[rembrat]

I remember a bunch of us were pissed that Mike Lowell's hip caused him to deteriorate right before our eyes while Rodriguez, suffering from the same ailment, was fine. It's still hard to believe they are the same age.

[In my lifetime]

As bad as A-Rod's contract is, it pales next to Fielder's. [/hijack]

I guess not. Now there is no way the Yankees are going to be able to unload ARod without either picking up the entire contract or giving prospects along in the any deal, which defeats the purpose.

His contract at this point is clearly the most onerous one in baseball.

Edited by In my lifetime, 03 December 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[Brickowski]

His deal is a huge financial headache for the Steinbrenners, but on the field his absence will be no big deal. He's not a 30-100 guy any more, he's a 15-50 guy at best. You could get the same production from Wilson Bettamint or Edwin Encarnacion.

[johnmd20]

He hurt his right hip 3 years ago. He rehabbed it but it never was the same. Thus, he overused the other hip to compensate and now has hurt that one. It sucks getting old, but Arod is aging in dog's years. It is easily the worst contract in sports, possibly the worst in history and if they didn't win the WS in 2009, it would easily be the worst in history.

What the hell is it going to look like in 2016 when Arod is making 30 mill for 6 homers and 32 RBI's, and requiring the use of a cane to even get to the plate?

[steveluck7]

The contract is so comically bad going forward that I can't shake the feeling that the Yankees will fall ass backwards into some way to wiggle out of it in the coming years

[derekson]

If the Yankees just install him at DH after he comes back from the surgery, he might recover enough at the plate to be worth starting in the everyday lineup over the rest of the contract. If they keep trying to play him in the field, I think it's only going to keep making things worse though. The Yankees need to accept the fact that they have an overpaid DH and do everything they can do to maximize his production in that context, and do whatever they need to do to fill the hole at third base.

Edited by derekson, 03 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[LondonSox]

If the Yankees just install him at DH after he comes back from the surgery, he might recover enough at the plate to be worth starting in the everyday lineup over the rest of the contract. If they keep trying to play him in the field, I think it's only going to keep making things worse though. The Yankees need to accept the fact that they have an overpaid DH and do everything they can do to maximize his production in that context, and do whatever they need to do to fill the hole at third base.

Totally agree. They might have a chance to trade him if he recovers at dh. He might not be hurt every year if he's just hitting.
Of course hips are kind of important to hitting and running.

[Toe Nash]

His deal is a huge financial headache for the Steinbrenners, but on the field his absence will be no big deal. He's not a 30-100 guy any more, he's a 15-50 guy at best. You could get the same production from Wilson Bettamint or Edwin Encarnacion.

You weren't paying attention to the Blue Jays this year, were you?

http://www.baseball-...encared01.shtml

[Brickowski]

You weren't paying attention to the Blue Jays this year, were you?

http://www.baseball-...encared01.shtml

LOL. I guess I wasn't.

[502 to Right]

The contract is so comically bad going forward that I can't shake the feeling that the Yankees will fall ass backwards into some way to wiggle out of it in the coming years

The Steinbrenners will probably give Arod a motorcycle, several basketballs, and single engine airplane for Christmas.

[Van Everyman]

Arod is aging in dog's years. It is easily the worst contract in sports, possibly the worst in history and if they didn't win the WS in 2009, it would easily be the worst in history.

In absolute terms, yes. But the Yankees have an ability to manage bad contracts in a way no other team can. That's why you can have Derek Jeter signed to a deal that pays him $19M for 9 years, Posada for $38M, Rivera for whatever, etc. and so forth. All in he primes of their careers with no real downside if they fail to perform. They lock in their talent to perpetuity. Now, Arod's contract -- does it suck? Absolutely. But has it meant that they've been unable to ink a single deal they otherwise would have? I don't think so.

With the new CBA maybe that changes. Maybe. But we've been hearing murmurs about the Yankees cutting payroll since they failed to pursue Beltran in 2005 because of supposed "debt issues." It's never happened. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

With the new CBA maybe that changes. Maybe. But we've been hearing murmurs about the Yankees cutting payroll since they failed to pursue Beltran in 2005 because of supposed "debt issues." It's never happened. I'll believe it when I see it.

Aren't we seeing it now? They have a major hole in RF and there is no expectation that they will bring Swisher back and no indication that they are pursuing Hamilton. There weren't any rumors about Pagan either. They just let Martin walk over a figure they would have laughed at in previous years.

Sure, maybe the loss of ARod causes a panic and they go nuts and throw the 189 million goal out the window, but at the moment it definitely appears their days of throwing money around with no regard for the luxury tax threshold seem to be halted, if not over.

[jon abbey]

Yes, thanks for beating me to that answer.

But again, I'd say their days of $200M+ payrolls are just on hold, not over. Assuming they stick to this plan, I expect them to go wild in the 2014-2015 offseason if some of these premium FAs actually hit the market and still look as tempting then as they do now (Andrew McCutchen, Jason Heyward, Miguel Cabrera, Verlander, Kershaw, King Felix).

[armyguy25]

Yes, thanks for beating me to that answer.

But again, I'd say their days of $200M+ payrolls are just on hold, not over. Assuming they stick to this plan, I expect them to go wild in the 2014-2015 offseason if some of these premium FAs actually hit the market and still look as tempting then as they do now (Andrew McCutchen, Jason Heyward, Miguel Cabrera, Verlander, Kershaw, King Felix).

Ok, but with the new trend in baseball, locking up your young stars to long term extensions 2+ years before hitting FA, I doubt too many of those guys will be available.

Even the small market teams are getting in on it. Of those, you might have one that is available, and it will probably be Cabrera because he's old.

[jon abbey]

Ok, but with the new trend in baseball, locking up your young stars to long term extensions 2+ years before hitting FA, I doubt too many of those guys will be available.

Even the small market teams are getting in on it. Of those, you might have one that is available, and it will probably be Cabrera because he's old.

We'll see how Greinke's upcoming massive deal affects that, I have to think more players are going to want to get to FA in a post-Dodgers world.

[abty]

He hurt his right hip 3 years ago. He rehabbed it but it never was the same. Thus, he overused the other hip to compensate and now has hurt that one. It sucks getting old, but Arod is aging in dog's years. It is easily the worst contract in sports, possibly the worst in history and if they didn't win the WS in 2009, it would easily be the worst in history.

What the hell is it going to look like in 2016 when Arod is making 30 mill for 6 homers and 32 RBI's, and requiring the use of a cane to even get to the plate?

It'll be awful - especially when the opposing manager checks it for pine tar.

[Orel Miraculous]

Oh, come the fuck on. They'll actually benefit financially if he can't play (though it won't help them avoid the tax, but still).

[glennhoffmania]

I'd be curious to know if his steroid use has any impact on the insurance policy.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Oh, come the fuck on. They'll actually benefit financially if he can't play (though it won't help them avoid the tax, but still).

The tax is the entire point, though. It's not the AAV that the Yankees are afraid of so much as the new penalties for being over the tax threshold, especially as a multi-year offender, that seem to be scaring them into restraint.

[Sampo Gida]

A-Rods Doctor pipes in.

"We can definitely fix two of the three problems, the impingement and the labrum," he said. "But the cartilage is a permanent injury and we won't know how extensive it is until we get in there."

snip

"The threshold isn't well defined, but one thing is certain," he said. "The less permanent damage to the cartilage, the greater the possibility of returning to the previous level of play."

snip

Kelly also said Rodriguez's recovery would be complicated by several factors -- Rodriquez's age (he will be 38 in July), the amount of cartilage damage, the fact that he already has had one hip surgery and that the repaired hip will have to bear more weight than usual.

"The biggest obstacle that I see is that we really have to manage a lot of issues," Kelly said. "I like to tell people six months is a reasonable time frame for return to play. It would be great if he returns faster. But it's possible it will take longer."

http://espn.go.com/n...-surgery-jan-16

A-Rods future is clearly going to be dictated by how much cartilage damage he has, and that wont be determined until he undergoes surgery on Jan 16.

[bohous]

Yankees attempting to void A-Rods contract - ESPN NY

 

If Major League Baseball disciplines Alex Rodriguez over the latest illegal performance-enhancing drug allegations, the New York Yankees plan on exploring multiple avenues in an attempt to void the star third baseman's contract. "(The Yankees) can't do anything until the MLB investigation is concluded and they take action, if any," a source told ESPNNewYork.com.

<snip>
According to an industry source, the Yankees " are looking at about 20 different things," including whether Rodriguez breached the contract by taking medical treatment from an outside doctor without the team's authorization, and the possibility that he might have broken the law by purchasing  controlled substances from a Miami "wellness clinic" run by nutritionist Anthony Bosch.

<snip>

According to two baseball sources -- one of whom is familiar with the wording of Rodriguez's contract -- even if it is proved that Rodriguez received PEDs and HGH from Bosch, the Yankees would not be able to impose a punishment greater than the mandatory 50-game suspension stipulated for a first-time offender by baseball's collectively bargained Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program.

<snip>

"All contracts have moral clauses," a baseball official who handles contract negotiations said. "It will come down to the language in (Rodriguez's) contract. If it is a normal moral clause, (the Yankees) won't have much of a case. If there are specific clauses that went into
steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, then I doubt he would walk away with his money."

 

The "looking at about 20 different things" is the part that got me. I'm having a difficult time coming up with 2 different things that would make the contract voidable.

 

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed already being discussed HERE

Edited by bohous, 30 January 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[In my lifetime]

This thread was started a year ago. As bad as the contract looked a year ago, today it looks exponentially worse.

A broken down player rehabbing from recent hip surgery, who is embroiled in yet another PED scandal and on the books for 5 more years at 114 million + 30M of bonuses (not likely to be met due to his injuries) who is hated by his fan base, teammates, and front office.

Even before the latest PED scandal, the Yankees were desperate to get out from under this contract. Now no team will take ARod unless the Yankees eat just about the entire 114 million, leaving the Yankees with a variety of legal "Hail Marys" as their only means of escape. 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I think it's a foregone conclusion he hits at least two of those bonuses (660 is automatic and 714 is pretty probable) and he still has a decent shot at the rest, if not likely. Cooked or not I don't think 20 per year is crazy if the surgery on his hip was successful and he has not further big injuries.

[armyguy25]

I think 660 is the only one thats foregone. Going by how fast Arod is declining in skillset, the intoduction of in season HGH testing, and playing on two glass hips, I dont think we can just assume that 714 is a given. At this point I give it 50/50, and the other ones range from longshot to impossible. He has 5 seasons left and you have to assume he'll miss at least two seasons worth of baseball over that stretch (he willl miss half season, possibly full season in 2013 alone). I think 714 is gonna come down to the wire.

Where it gets interesting is if Arod doesnt hit 660 next season. If hes going into 2014 just under the 660 the Yankees are either going to have to leave a $6 million buffer in payroll, or be prepared to sit Arod once he gets within a dinger or two.

Edited by armyguy25, 02 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Sampo Gida]

I think 660 is the only one thats foregone. Going by how fast Arod is declining in skillset, the intoduction of in season HGH testing, and playing on two glass hips, I dont think we can just assume that 714 is a given. At this point I give it 50/50, and the other ones range from longshot to impossible. He has 5 seasons left and you have to assume he'll miss at least two seasons worth of baseball over that stretch (he willl miss half season, possibly full season in 2013 alone). I think 714 is gonna come down to the wire.

Where it gets interesting is if Arod doesnt hit 660 next season. If hes going into 2014 just under the 660 the Yankees are either going to have to leave a $6 million buffer in payroll, or be prepared to sit Arod once he gets within a dinger or two.

 

 

My understanding is the 6 million is added to the contract total, so it increases the AAV by only 600K as it is spread over 10 years (his 2014 salary for example is only 21 million but his AAV for 2014 is 27.5 and this jumps to 28.1 million with the 6 million)

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Even if misses the entire season this year I find it tough to think he won't hit 70 hrs over the following 4 seasons. say what you want about his ped help but the dude is still a pretty talented player and will probably be moved to DH to help with his physical decline. 714 will happen.

[terrynever]

One more aspect of this circus is A-Rod's latest injury added $12M more to the budget this year because they had to go find a replacement for him at third base.

[Sampo Gida]

One more aspect of this circus is A-Rod's latest injury added $12M more to the budget this year because they had to go find a replacement for him at third base.

 

The jury is still out on that as they may collect at least this much on the insurance if MLB investigators do not find sufficient grounds for suspension, and will save 8 million if he does get suspended..  Also, they don't really have budget issues in 2013 as revenue sharing rebates do not begin until 2014 which is when the Yankees want to be under the luxury tax threshold.

[terrynever]

The jury is still out on that as they may collect at least this much on the insurance if MLB investigators do not find sufficient grounds for suspension, and will save 8 million if he does get suspended..  Also, they don't really have budget issues in 2013 as revenue sharing rebates do not begin until 2014 which is when the Yankees want to be under the luxury tax threshold.

Yeah, I think the whole world knows by now about the insurance and 2014. My point is A-Rod is costing them an extra $12M this year. Maybe it doesn't matter to us fans but that's still an extra $12M for the services of Kevin Youkilis.

[Sampo Gida]

Yeah, I think the whole world knows by now about the insurance and 2014. My point is A-Rod is costing them an extra $12M this year. Maybe it doesn't matter to us fans but that's still an extra $12M for the services of Kevin Youkilis.

 

Yeah, but then the Pineda's injury is costing the Yankees 12 million for Pettitte.  Maybe your point is that Arods injury is self inflicted by PED use, which is possible, but not proven.   My point was simply that when the books on 2013 are closed Arods injury may have saved them money even with the 12 million spent on Youk.

Edited by Sampo Gida, 04 February 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[terrynever]

Yeah, but then the Pineda's injury is costing the Yankees 12 million for Pettitte.  Maybe your point is that Arods injury is self inflicted by PED use, which is possible, but not proven.   My point was simply that when the books on 2013 are closed Arods injury may have saved them money even with the 12 million spent on Youk.

You are a real optimist, Sampo. I guess I'm a pessimist. Or a realist. I'm happier with Youk around and A-Rod in seclusion for all of 2013. The insurance money would offset the money spent on Youk and Andy as you suggest. It would be nice if Youk has a solid season and Pineda comes back and joins the rotation for the second half of the season.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Yankees allow A-Rod to attend spring training. He's going to be a major distraction with all the media chasing him around. Not sure where they would want him working out. He's splitting time between NYC and Miami right now.

Edited by terrynever, 04 February 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Sampo Gida]

You are a real optimist, Sampo. I guess I'm a pessimist. Or a realist. I'm happier with Youk around and A-Rod in seclusion for all of 2013. The insurance money would offset the money spent on Youk and Andy as you suggest. It would be nice if Youk has a solid season and Pineda comes back and joins the rotation for the second half of the season.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Yankees allow A-Rod to attend spring training. He's going to be a major distraction with all the media chasing him around. Not sure where they would want him working out. He's splitting time between NYC and Miami right now.

 

 

Looks like Arod is going undercover so we won't know where he rehabs.

 

http://espn.go.com/n...location-secret

.

Edited by Sampo Gida, 05 February 2013 - 12:43 AM.