122 replies to this topic

[brs3]

Significant is maybe a little strong, but multiple teams want him. Evidently the Angels agreed to trade Abreu for him, but Burnett turned it down. He could easily be Pittsburgh's ace if they land him, not that that's the highest bar.

I get what you're trying to say, that he'd be a great boost for the Pirates, but are you certain he would be the ace? Are you assuming his numbers would significantly improve in the NL? I'd assume that, but it might put him on par with their current rotation, rather than the best starter.

[jon abbey]

I don't remember where, but I saw some list where he had a better xFIP than any of the current Pittsburgh starters last year. I'm definitely not certain he'd be their ace, but he might be the frontrunner for that going into spring training.

[Average Reds]

Who the hell is talking about fan expectations and public relations? That has absolutely no baring on the deal or any of the posts.

If the Pirates hadn't just signed Bedard for a song this may be right, but it simply isn't...

No team wants AJ Burnett out right except the Pirates...... Both the Indians and Angels are trying to trade problems of there own to New York for Burnett. Do you really think the Angels need more starting pitching??

The Pirates have nothing to loose, there is no reason not to hold out and not sweeten the pot from what it already is. The Yankees are up against the soft Deadline of P&C not the Pirates.

If you read a little closer, you'll see that I was not the one to bring up that point. But it's a distraction nevertheless.

I don't think the Yankees are up against any deadline except their own. And I don't think it's a disaster of they end up having to bring back Burnett. Hell, it's not a disaster if they end up just eating his contract - they're the Yankees.

I'm assuming that the Pirates are actually interested in winning games. If so, then having Burnett on their squad for a fraction of his contracted salary is a pretty smart move. Unless you are trying to convince me that signing Bedard for one year at $4.5 million is such a great value that it obliterates the attractiveness of adding Burnett at approx. $6.0 million per year for two years, in which case we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited by Average Reds, 15 February 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[maufman]

Their nice first half in 2011 notwithstanding, the Pirates are a mess. They are not likely to contend this year or next. They should try to win games, of course, but not at the expense of giving up players who might help in 2014 and beyond.

Burnett at 2/12 is a decent add, but giving up a prospect quickly turns the deal from a good one to a bad one for Pittsburgh. They might agree to absorb a little more salary, but I can't see them sending the MFY anything but organizational fodder.

[E5 Yaz]

Mystery teams?

https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23WhatwouldUtradeAJ4

[jon abbey]

Just take the $10M and organizational fodder, this is making me nervous.

(this will hopefully soon be a good example of why I should not have Cashman's job)

[GreenFields]

Actually I said that I think "Damon is more serviceable in the OF in an emergency than Ibanez", which is like choosing between leprosy and reading more of your posts. Thankfully I don't have the first and I can stop the second.

This is the kind of pissy discussion I used to get into on NYYFans. No thank you.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don't remember where, but I saw some list where he had a better xFIP than any of the current Pittsburgh starters last year. I'm definitely not certain he'd be their ace, but he might be the frontrunner for that going into spring training.

His xFIP assumes his HR rate will be league average. AJ has never been better than league average in his AL career. With declining velocity issues coupled with "walk every damn batter" syndrome I doubt he'll ever match his xFIP.

[jon abbey]

His xFIP assumes his HR rate will be league average. AJ has never been better than league average in his AL career. With declining velocity issues coupled with "walk every damn batter" syndrome I doubt he'll ever match his xFIP.

Some truth in this, but on the other hand, Javier Vazquez was somehow good again in the NL last year.

[EvilEmpire]

The Yankee fanbase will be angry if this falls through. I don't think that is the case for the Pittsburgh fanbase. They will only be angry if the Bucs are seen as paying too much in dollars and prospects.

If this gets done it will be because the Yankees believed THEY had to get it done.

Really? Burnett has been disappointing, but he sure as hell isn't Carl Pavano.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Some truth in this, but on the other hand, Javier Vazquez was somehow good again in the NL last year.

That really surprised me. But his second stint with the Yankees had him going through a dead arm period where his fastball went in the high 80s. With a joke of a right field in YS3 and playing against the Red Sox , Blue Jays and Rays he got owned. Then he got to face against pitchers and very inferior lineups.

AJ might be solid in Pittsburgh but I'm too biased. Screw him, he sucks.

[maufman]

Really? Burnett has been disappointing, but he sure as hell isn't Carl Pavano.

Yeah, it's more of a clubhouse issue than a fan issue. Even with Pineda and Kuroda in the fold, the rotation still has question marks -- neither Hughes nor Garcia obviously deserves a spot, and Nova is a candidate to regress. Burnett is going to feel like he ought to be starting, and if he has a few good relief outings, he'll have teammates who agree with him (to say nothing of the back pages). Maybe those concerns aren't enough to DFA Burnett, but the chance to clear a third of his salary should be enough to make Cashman do the deal.

Who's left on the market anyway? If the MFY aren't worried about the Bucs spending their money elsewhere, they can afford to wait a few days and see if they soften their position. For their part, there's no reason for the Pirates to sweeten their offer -- it's not like many well-laid plans will come to naught if A.J. Burnett lands elsewhere, and besides, they have no reason to think anyone else is interested.

[kazuneko]

Pirates need to hold the line on this. No way can a franchise like the Pirates (who live and die based on their ability to develop prospects ) take on ten mill of salary for a player like Burnett if they also have to give up a legitimate prospect. At this point in his career- and in this market- 10 mill for Burnett isn't even a great deal. Heck, if Burnett had been a free agent he might have been lucky to land a 1-year 5 million dollar deal...

[jon abbey]

The $10M would be for two years, not one.

[jon abbey]

Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS

for about the eighth straight day (est.), I can report there is a lot of optimism for aj/pirates deal. yanks will pay $20M of aj's $33M

[jon abbey]

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Yankees honing in on Burnett decision. Unknown team (not Cle or Pit) brought proposal to NYY yesterday. Pit still could be leader.

Burnett rejected concept of being traded to Angels(for Abreu) three weeks ago.

[Wingack]

This is getting interesting.

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

Watch, the mystery team will turn out to be ..... Boston!

[jon abbey]

JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm

NYY-PGH close to finalizing deal w/ Burnett.should get done in next 24 hours according to source;NYY weighing one last offer from other team

[soxhop411]

JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm

NYY-PGH close to finalizing deal w/ Burnett.should get done in next 24 hours according to source;NYY weighing one last offer from other team

Does he mean PIT?

[SoxScout]

PGH = Pittsburgh

[soxhop411]

PGH = Pittsburgh

My bad.. Im used to the Pirates being referred to PIT

[crow216]

With or without Burnett, the Pirates rotation is not half bad with some potential. With Burnett, they're pretty stable.

[Trlicek's Whip]

The Yanks should be in no hurry. Let the other buyers step up.

Neither should the Pirates. And what other buyers? There won't be a lot of other buyers at this moment. Oswalt is still a FA too.

When the attrition of ST leads to starter injuries, then Burnett is more attractive to other teams. So maybe the Yankees want to wait that long and have Burnett be the odd man out at camp, bogarting other pitchers' innings, or maybe Cashman wants to get the to the foregone conclusion sooner rather than later.

Maybe he'll take Anaheim off of his NTL.

Isn't LAAAA done dealing? Their starting five:

Dan Haren
CJ Wilson
Jared Weaver
Ervin Santana
Jerome Williams

Williams showed enough in September to be the 5th starter, and could be a Vogelsong-type success pitching 5th if he's not a mirage.

If any of these guys get injured, I still doubt they'd want to toss NYY anything or kick in money for Burnett. With the offensive upgrade in Pujols and Kendry Morales' return, they will look to score more runs this year, which makes it cheaper to mix and match their own depth signings (Brad Mills, Garrett Richards) or non-roster guys that show something (Eric Hurley).

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 16 February 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[jon abbey]

The Angels agreed to an Abreu/Burnett deal three weeks ago, Burnett was the one who vetoed it.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Watch, the mystery team will turn out to be ..... Boston!

I'd do it in a split second................. But you're getting back Lackey

[Trlicek's Whip]

The Angels agreed to an Abreu/Burnett deal three weeks ago, Burnett was the one who vetoed it.

Thanks. Coming out of hot-stove hibernation so have missed the day-to-day. That made more sense since it'd be trading contract value so there's more middle ground.

[rembrat]

With or without Burnett, the Pirates rotation is not half bad with some potential. With Burnett, they're pretty stable.

Yesterday I checked the Pirates 2011 rotation and was blown away by the lack of K. 4/5ths were rocking a 5 K/9. AJ steps into that group and immediately because Big Willy.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Their nice first half in 2011 notwithstanding, the Pirates are a mess. They are not likely to contend this year or next. They should try to win games, of course, but not at the expense of giving up players who might help in 2014 and beyond.

Burnett at 2/12 is a decent add, but giving up a prospect quickly turns the deal from a good one to a bad one for Pittsburgh. They might agree to absorb a little more salary, but I can't see them sending the MFY anything but organizational fodder.

And yet, the NL Central:

CIN = should be good
--
STL = no Pujols
MIL = no Fielder
CHC = no Zambrano
--
HOU = should be bad

The Pirates are a thoroughly mediocre team with one really good player. But that doesn't mean they might not make a run. Of course, that doesn't mean they should give up any more than organizational fodder, either.

[melonbag]

Neither should the Pirates. And what other buyers?

When the attrition of ST leads to starter injuries, then Burnett is more attractive to other teams.

The Pirates aren't the only option. Don't know who the mystery team will be but the Yanks aren't desperate to save money. They can afford to wait.

I was referring to ST injuries to other starters, after which Burnett's value will increase.

[jon abbey]

A bunch of different people have reported this as pretty much done, NY picks up $20M of the $33M left and gets back two non-40 man roster players.

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Sources: Yankees and Pirates hope to take their proposed Burnett deal to the Commissioner later today, for approval.

[zapo]

<sup>Trade reported done, pending approval of MLB (required due to >$1M changing hands). The prospects going to mfy are Exicardo Cayones and Diego Moreno.

http://www.mlbtrader...nett-trade.html</sup>

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Both prospects are pretty much filler and I don't think they'd be in the Yankees top 30, but at least they can justify it to their fans that they got something back.........even though it's really nothing....... Besides payroll Flexibility.

[fortyluv]

Obviously I am not knowledgeable about the tech side of baseball. Can someone tell me if the Yankees would be allowed to send AJ to the minors after the season begins?

[DBB23]

This deal breaks down to Burnett for whoever is signed to DH this season. Yankees get 5Mil off the books this year whih happens to be the exact reported amount the available DH's were seeking. Next year another 8Mil off the books. The 2 minor leaguers are non-factors Moreno is a 25 year lod righty struggling in AA and Cayones has a bit better upside being only 20 has decent speed but lacks basestealing skills.

Id say great deal for the Pirates since healthy pitchers with the option of where to sign do not want to go there and Burnett will put up good numbers in the NL especially the central.
The Yankees get what they needed payroll room for a dh extra 8Mil next year and not having to answer questions about AJ's spot in the rotation.

Win/Win but better win for the Pirates if AJ project as well as I think in the NL central.

[E5 Yaz]

I wonder if the deal comes with a proviso that he can't be traded back to an AL East team?

[jon abbey]

This deal breaks down to Burnett for whoever is signed to DH this season. Yankees get 5Mil off the books this year whih happens to be the exact reported amount the available DH's were seeking.

I think the way it actually breaks down is that some of the savings go to the already signed Kuroda deal, but we'll see.

Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1

Of $5M saved in '12, #Yankees plan to get Chavez for about $1M and Ibanez for about $1M, though Damon lingers as DH possibility

[RedOctober3829]

Heyman says AJ deal to Pittsburgh is done per the Commissioner's Office.

https://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/status/170625972461256705

[jon abbey]

HALLELUJAH.

The most amazing thing about the three years of Burnett in NY was that he didn't miss a single start. Remember how fragile he was pre-2008?

[brs3]

There were a few times over the last 2 years you probably wished he had missed a start.

edit: not being snarky, either. Just watched a lot of AJ to see he was pretty bad.

Edited by brs3, 17 February 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[EvilEmpire]

The most amazing thing about the three years of Burnett in NY was that he didn't miss a single start. Remember how fragile he was pre-2008?

Equally amazing is how that wasn't always such a great thing

Add AJ to the list with Javy Vazquez and Carl Pavano -- guys with talent who just couldn't get it done in NY. I'm sure he will bounce back with Pittsburgh.

[DBB23]

I think the way it actually breaks down is that some of the savings go to the already signed Kuroda deal, but we'll see.

Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1

Of $5M saved in '12, #Yankees plan to get Chavez for about $1M and Ibanez for about $1M, though Damon lingers as DH possibility

He may be right but I just don't get the love with Chavez he must of been one hell of a clubhouse influence. They have Pena and Nunez on the 40 man and Bill Hall as a ST invitee. Not sure what they see Chavez bringing them that they do not already have. I know its 2/17 and Ibanez is unemployed still think he would want more than 1Mil. If the DH's are going that cheap can we just get a Vlad/Ibanez Platoon.

[jon abbey]

Agreed on Chavez, and it's going to piss me off if it turns out that the reason they like Ibanez over Damon is that he'll take a few million less.

As for Vlad, what does he add that Andruw Jones doesn't already?

[terrynever]

Equally amazing is how that wasn't always such a great thing

Add AJ to the list with Javy Vazquez and Carl Pavano -- guys with talent who just couldn't get it done in NY. I'm sure he will bounce back with Pittsburgh.

Don't forget, AJ won 13 games in 2009, pitched well in 3 of 5 postseason starts, and played a solid role in that championship season. He was never a clubhouse pariah, the way Pavano was. Burnett and Javy had some similarities, I guess. Could never trust either of them on the mound. They looked great until a couple baserunners got on, and then you knew something bad was going to happen.

AJ will be welcomed back to Old Timer's Games. He was the Pie Man. Time heals all wounds, in his case. I doubt you will see Pavano and Javy at Old Timer's Day.

[Doctor G]

So the Pirates have Burnett for 5M this year. If he has a good first half and they're out of contention, i wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the trade market in July. For 3M the Pirates might be able to get back a couple of better prospects than they sent to the Yanks.

Edited by Doctor G, 17 February 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[EvilEmpire]

Don't forget, AJ won 13 games in 2009, pitched well in 3 of 5 postseason starts, and played a solid role in that championship season. He was never a clubhouse pariah, the way Pavano was. Burnett and Javy had some similarities, I guess. Could never trust either of them on the mound. They looked great until a couple baserunners got on, and then you knew something bad was going to happen.

AJ will be welcomed back to Old Timer's Games. He was the Pie Man. Time heals all wounds, in his case. I doubt you will see Pavano and Javy at Old Timer's Day.

Yeah, good post. I've never had a problem with AJ, adventures with baserunners nothwithstanding. I hope he does well going forward.

[JakeBadlands]

Man, bet he wishes he could go back and accept the LAAA trade now. Enjoy beautiful Pittsburgh!

I don't understand this from a Pirates perspective. I know they had flashes of competence, but is AJ Burnett, who has been trending decidedly to the mediocre, really worth that kind of expenditure? The club's highest-paid player, per ESPN, is McLouth at $7m. Even factoring in the NY portion of the money, Burnett will likely be their 2nd-highest paid player. If you're going to be as tight with a buck as the Pirates have been, does it make sense to spend this much on Burnett? If they were betting on AJ to get them over them hump to respectability or a playoff berth, I could see it, but that seems an awful lot of hope to invest in the AJ Burnett we saw in the AL East. Reminds me of the Gil Meche signing; a middling-large contract from a bad, cheap team, to a decent starter. I don't recall Meche hanging a lot of banners in Kaufmann.

[Doctor G]

Man, bet he wishes he could go back and accept the LAAA trade now. Enjoy beautiful Pittsburgh! I don't understand this from a Pirates perspective. I know they had flashes of competence, but is AJ Burnett, who has been trending decidedly to the mediocre, really worth that kind of expenditure? The club's highest-paid player, per ESPN, is McLouth at $7m. Even factoring in the NY portion of the money, Burnett will likely be their 2nd-highest paid player. If you're going to be as tight with a buck as the Pirates have been, does it make sense to spend this much on Burnett? If they were betting on AJ to get them over them hump to respectability or a playoff berth, I could see it, but that seems an awful lot of hope to invest in the AJ Burnett we saw in the AL East. Reminds me of the Gil Meche signing; a middling-large contract from a bad, cheap team, to a decent starter. I don't recall Meche hanging a lot of banners in Kaufmann.

I see this as a buy low, sell high gamble by the Pirates. They could have a valuable commodity in Burnett come 7-31 or even next winter. Burnett might be seen as a difference maker in the NL if he is successful in Pittsburgh.

As of now they have spent only two marginal prospects, and committed to 5M IF he spends the whole season in Pittsburgh, which may not happen.

Edited by Doctor G, 17 February 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[No Guru No Method]

Man, bet he wishes he could go back and accept the LAAA trade now. Enjoy beautiful Pittsburgh!

I don't understand this from a Pirates perspective. I know they had flashes of competence, but is AJ Burnett, who has been trending decidedly to the mediocre, really worth that kind of expenditure? The club's highest-paid player, per ESPN, is McLouth at $7m. Even factoring in the NY portion of the money, Burnett will likely be their 2nd-highest paid player. If you're going to be as tight with a buck as the Pirates have been, does it make sense to spend this much on Burnett? If they were betting on AJ to get them over them hump to respectability or a playoff berth, I could see it, but that seems an awful lot of hope to invest in the AJ Burnett we saw in the AL East. Reminds me of the Gil Meche signing; a middling-large contract from a bad, cheap team, to a decent starter. I don't recall Meche hanging a lot of banners in Kaufmann.

He didn't want to go to LAAA. If he wanted to he would have taken the trade. Very good deal for Pittsburgh. They get him on a below market deal and can flip him if he rebounds.

[melonbag]

Addition by subtraction. Very good deal for the Yanks.