122 replies to this topic

[AlNipper49]

Olney is reporting that a framework is in place to send AJ Burnett to the Pirates. No word on the players or cash other than Burnett being exchanged.

[bsj]

I freely admit I dont obsess over the Yankees as much as a real Red Sox fan is supposed to...what is the anticipated follow up move here? Freeing up cash for a DH?

[soxfan121]

Only thing that matters, unless the Pirates are really dumb, is how much $ is NY paying? Never made sense to bring Burnett back for another season.

[TheoShmeo]

I freely admit I dont obsess over the Yankees as much as a real Red Sox fan is supposed to...what is the anticipated follow up move here? Freeing up cash for a DH?

Yep. Left handed bat DH and sometimes OFer. Damon, Matsui and Ibanez are the reported possibilities. I hope it's Damon. He makes the MFYs even more MF.

[AlNipper49]

I was reading Chavez earlier re: LH bat

[maufman]

Burnett had a 3.86 xFIP last season. If the MFY are paying two-thirds of his salary, it's a decent gamble for the Bucs.

[Tyrone Biggums]

Burnett had a 3.86 xFIP last season. If the MFY are paying two-thirds of his salary, it's a decent gamble for the Bucs.

Agreed, at least the Pirates are making an effort this year...unlike the last 20 or so

[jon abbey]

I don't exactly see that Chavez provides much that Bill Hall doesn't, he showed almost no power ability last year. If they did sign him, it wouldn't be for much money and possibly another minor league deal like Hall. It would be a LHH for the DH to compete with Branyan, probably Damon or maybe Ibanez.

[jon abbey]

"The Pittsburgh Pirates continue to talk with the New York Yankees about right-hander A.J. Burnett, with most signs pointing to a trade. But as of early Sunday, the two sides were still haggling about the money and players in the deal.

The Yankees likely will pay $19 million to $23 million of the $33 million remaining on Burnett’s contract and receive multiple minor leaguers in return, according to one source with knowledge of the discussions. Those minor leaguers would not be players on the Pirates’ 40-man roster, the source said."

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...6?new_post=true

Wow, this would be quite the deal if Rosenthal is correct here. Get it done, Brian.

[jon abbey]

Basically that would mean they went from Burnett to Kuroda for free in 2012 (plus any value from the incoming minor leaguers), as well as freeing up another $10M to utilize however they'd like next offseason.

[BellhornIsGod]

Basically that would mean they went from Burnett to Kuroda for free in 2012 (plus any value from the incoming minor leaguers), as well as freeing up another $10M to utilize however they'd like next offseason.

I don't understand this. If the Yankees are paying $19-23 million, that means the Pirates are paying $10-14 million over 2 years ($5-7 million per year). How are the Yankees getting Kuroda and his $10-11 million dollar salary PLUS another 10 million dollars next year? Unless it's really the Pirates who are paying $19-23 million, and the quoted article was wrong.

[jon abbey]

No, no, you're right, I read it the other way. This way makes much more sense, oh well.

[StuckOnYouk]

Burnett had a 3.86 xFIP last season. If the MFY are paying two-thirds of his salary, it's a decent gamble for the Bucs.

Hell, with the NL losing some of their few talented offensive players, Burnett could pull off a Cy Young in that joke of a league.

[Alcohol&Overcalls]

I don't exactly see that Chavez provides much that Bill Hall doesn't, he showed almost no power ability last year.

Well, he's a LHH, which seems like the priority, right?

[TheYaz67]

Damn. Maybe the Royals will take Lackey off our hands, for the right price..... (we can only wish for something like this)

[jon abbey]

Well, he's a LHH, which seems like the priority, right?

No, there are two different positions being confused here. One is a LHH DH, the other is a backup IF who can play 3B especially. This latter role is already covered by Nunez and now Bill Hall, so I don't really see the need for Chavez at all anymore. The LHH DH is the one they're looking to add someone to fill, this would be the Damon/Ibanez spot (currently filled by Branyan or maybe Jorge Vazquez).

[jon abbey]

Olney really seems to think this will happen, he is already making lineups with Ibanez:

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
With the dollars NYY would save by dealing Burnett--probably $6-7 million a year range--they'll have flexibility to sign Raul Ibanez or etc.

Yankees lineup w/Ibanez (if he signs) probably like this: Jeter, Granderson, Cano, A-Rod, Teixeira, Swisher,Ibanez, Martin, Gardner.

[tims4wins]

Why Ibanez? The guy turns 40 this year and put up a Rey Ordonez-esque .289 OBP last year. Sure, he hit 20 homers in 575 plate appearances, but half of those plate appearances were in a bandbox (not unlike the right field porch in Yankee Stadium).

I suppose he could find the magic again this year, but it seems far more likely to me that he just completely sucks this year. And at $6 or $7M, plus the luxury tax, we're talking close to $10M... seems like a lot to pay for a 40 year old DH.

[jon abbey]

I would rather have Damon also, Olney claims that:

"Among the trio of Raul Ibanez, Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui, the Yankees' clear first choice is Ibanez largely because they feel like he can fill in at right field or left field for a handful of days; they view Damon and Matsui as defensively unplayable."

But I think this is reversed, that Damon is more serviceable in the OF in an emergency than Ibanez, but honestly it shouldn't matter either way since they have both Jones and Nunez as extra OFs already on the roster (and possibly Bill Hall too).

[GreenFields]

Can you imagine a Damon to Jeter relay on a ball hit to right field? I don't think they could bounce it to third.

[Wingack]

Can you imagine a Damon to Jeter relay on a ball hit to right field? I don't think they could bounce it to third.

Well, Damon won't see RF should the Yankees re-sign him, so we don't have to worry about this happening.

[jon abbey]

NY has Justin Maxwell also back in camp for OF depth if someone goes down, he was having a fantastic year in AAA last year when he got hurt, 16 HRs in 177 ABs:

http://www.baseball-...id=maxwel001jus

[Hyde Park Factor]

Interesting tidbit regarding Burnett and Barajas - evidently AJ is very comfortable pitching to Barajas from their days in Toronto:

http://tomsinger.mlb...rajas/#comments

In the joke that is the NL central, Burnett could have a pretty good year (as noted above) if the Barajas effect kicks in.

[rembrat]

One simply wonders why AJ doesn't just call up Doc Halladay for a refresher course.

[Trlicek's Whip]

If the Burnett trade (PIT or elsewhere) goes through, it still leaves a mammoth hole in the Bronx that no one's accounting for.

Namely, who will take up the jaunty mantle of "Walkoff Win Pie Thrower" now?

[Wingack]

If the Burnett trade (PIT or elsewhere) goes through, it still leaves a mammoth hole in the Bronx that no one's accounting for.

Namely, who will take up the jaunty mantle of "Walkoff Win Pie Thrower" now?

I think Swisher is the most qualified for the job.

[jon abbey]

Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS

still optimism for yankees/pirates deal. could take a few days but pitts may pay $13M of aj's $33M. Indians, angels have checked in

Yankees/indians talk revolves around aj and travis hafner. cleve unsure it would do that swap. yanks also don't mind the FA DH options

[GreenFields]

http://espn.go.com/n...ade-sources-say

Yankees trying to hector Pirates into giving something up for Burnett... based on their (Yankee) overvaluation of Burnett?

[E5 Yaz]

They want significant compensation

[jon abbey]

http://espn.go.com/n...ade-sources-say

Yankees trying to hector Pirates into giving something up for Burnett... based on their (Yankee) overvaluation of Burnett?

That's two shitty posts to start your tenure here, make better ones or go away.

[GreenFields]

That's two shitty posts to start your tenure here, make better ones or go away.

And you think Damon is a "serviceable outfielder." What are you watching?

[jon abbey]

Actually I said that I think "Damon is more serviceable in the OF in an emergency than Ibanez", which is like choosing between leprosy and reading more of your posts. Thankfully I don't have the first and I can stop the second.

[jon abbey]

What's come to light in the last day or two is the real reason that NY seems to prefer Ibanez over Damon, which is that evaluators think that Damon has begun to lose patience at the plate and expand the strike zone in an effort to get to 3000 hits. This makes more sense than preferring his defense, since chances are good neither would ever play the OF, except in an emergency.

[BigMike]

What's come to light in the last day or two is the real reason that NY seems to prefer Ibanez over Damon, which is that evaluators think that Damon has begun to lose patience at the plate and expand the strike zone in an effort to get to 3000 hits. This makes more sense than preferring his defense, since chances are good neither would ever play the OF, except in an emergency.

Not surprised. I have said it before, I wouldn't want to touch Damon if it was my team. He is all about the 3000 hits at the moment, and i think he is going to be a massive pain in the neck when he isn't in the lineup going for it, and I see no evidence that he is good enough to warrent the 500+ at bats he is probably going to want

[tims4wins]

What's come to light in the last day or two is the real reason that NY seems to prefer Ibanez over Damon, which is that evaluators think that Damon has begun to lose patience at the plate and expand the strike zone in an effort to get to 3000 hits. This makes more sense than preferring his defense, since chances are good neither would ever play the OF, except in an emergency.

Interesting, Ibanez had a higher O-swing % than Damon last year (32.2% vs. 31.3%).

[jon abbey]

Please don't overplay your hand on this, Cashman, just get rid of him:

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...6?new_post=true

[EvilEmpire]

Please don't overplay your hand on this, Cashman, just get rid of him:

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...6?new_post=true

I have mixed feelings -- would hate to give him away for nothing when I think he he could actually be productive. Obviously finding innings is a big challenge, but someone always seems to get hurt.

[Average Reds]

Please don't overplay your hand on this, Cashman, just get rid of him:

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...6?new_post=true

It's actually an interesting game of chicken, because Burnett has significant value and so Cashman wants to get something back for him. At the same time, the Pirates are well aware that it's basically a salary dump (or worse) and they are treating it this way.

My perspective is that the Pirates are the ones at risk of overplaying their hand here, because in the end they stand to lose much more than the Yankees if the deal collapses. Which tells me that the deal will eventually get done.

Edited by Average Reds, 15 February 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[jon abbey]

To me, the odds are good that if NY holds onto him, he'll lose value once the season starts, either because he's not in the rotation or because he is and is sucking. They just don't need the distraction, I really hope it'll get done this week.

[Doctor G]

It's actually an interesting game of chicken, because Burnett has significant value and so Cashman wants to get something back for him. At the same time, the Pirates are well aware that it's basically a salary dump (or worse) and they are treating it this way.

My perspective is that the Pirates are the ones at risk of overplaying their hand here, because in the end they stand to lose much more than the Yankees if the deal collapses. Which tells me that the deal will eventually get done.

The Yankee fanbase will be angry if this falls through. I don't think that is the case for the Pittsburgh fanbase. They will only be angry if the Bucs are seen as paying too much in dollars and prospects.

If this gets done it will be because the Yankees believed THEY had to get it done.

[StuckOnYouk]

To me, the odds are good that if NY holds onto him, he'll lose value once the season starts, either because he's not in the rotation or because he is and is sucking. They just don't need the distraction, I really hope it'll get done this week.

Cashman will blink if he has to. there's no way they're bringing AJ to spring training. I just can't see it. What's happening now is Cashman is probably expecting the Pirates to spread their legs like the M's did by adding that prospect in the end and the Pirates are resisting.

[BigMike]

Looking at the top 10 in the Pirates system. Honestly I can' imagine the Pirates sending anyone in that group to the Yanks for Burnett, other than maybe a couple backend kids who I am not sure the Yanks would want. I would suspect the return will be lottery tickets from the low minors types, and the Yanks have a ton of them already.

I was wondering if Cashman would try to acquire extra international slot money in the deal, but looks like that doesn't kick in until next offseason (or maybe later)

[melonbag]

The Yanks should be in no hurry. Let the other buyers step up. Maybe he'll take Anaheim off of his NTL.

Resigning Damon would be a mistake.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

It's actually an interesting game of chicken, because Burnett has significant value and so Cashman wants to get something back for him. At the same time, the Pirates are well aware that it's basically a salary dump (or worse) and they are treating it this way.

My perspective is that the Pirates are the ones at risk of overplaying their hand here, because in the end they stand to lose much more than the Yankees if the deal collapses. Which tells me that the deal will eventually get done.

In what World does Burnett have significant value? The Pirates have no risk. Burnett can't come to ST with the Yankees unless they want Mr. Sensitive spoiling all there good feelings since getting Kuroda and Pineda. If I'm the Pirates I tell the Yankees, the more you wait the higher the price goes....

It's a salary dump, it'd be like us asking for compensation for John Lackey

[jon abbey]

Significant is maybe a little strong, but multiple teams want him. Evidently the Angels agreed to trade Abreu for him, but Burnett turned it down. He could easily be Pittsburgh's ace if they land him, not that that's the highest bar.

[Average Reds]

In what World does Burnett have significant value? The Pirates have no risk. Burnett can't come to ST with the Yankees unless they want Mr. Sensitive spoiling all there good feelings since getting Kuroda and Pineda. If I'm the Pirates I tell the Yankees, the more you wait the higher the price goes....

It's a salary dump, it'd be like us asking for compensation for John Lackey

I understand why people dismiss Burnett, because he has not performed to his contract, and that's perfectly fair. However, his value to an acquiring team has to be seen in another context, because the Yankees clearly do not want him back and I'm guessing that they are willing to pay enough of his contract to make him very valuable to the team that acquires him.

From a pure baseball perspective, if the Yankees play hardball and blow the deal, they may get stuck with a headache, but nothing they can't overcome. If the Pirates play hardball and blow the deal, they'll have turned down a very talented player who is fairly priced priced because they wanted a steal. In this context, they are the ones with the most to lose.

In terms of managing fan expectations and public relations, things are exactly reversed and Doctor G has it right.

Edited by Average Reds, 15 February 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[glennhoffmania]

Burnett has a no trade? Is there any Yankee that doesn't have no trade protection?

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

IIn this context, they are the ones with the most to lose.

In terms of managing fan expectations and public relations, things are exactly reversed and Doctor G has it right.

Who the hell is talking about fan expectations and public relations? That has absolutely no baring on the deal or any of the posts.

If the Pirates hadn't just signed Bedard for a song this may be right, but it simply isn't...

No team wants AJ Burnett out right except the Pirates...... Both the Indians and Angels are trying to trade problems of there own to New York for Burnett. Do you really think the Angels need more starting pitching??

The Pirates have nothing to loose, there is no reason not to hold out and not sweeten the pot from what it already is. The Yankees are up against the soft Deadline of P&C not the Pirates.

[jon abbey]

Burnett has a no trade? Is there any Yankee that doesn't have no trade protection?

He has one to ten clubs, Pittsburgh isn't on the list.

[steveluck7]

Burnett has a no trade? Is there any Yankee that doesn't have no trade protection?

From reports yesterday, it sounded like Anaheim is on his No trade list because of his wife's aversion to flying. If that's the case, it's safe to assume every club west of St. Louis would be on the list.