305 replies to this topic

[mikeot]

I suppose I'm in the camp of folks who aren't taking this especially hard.

It's frustrating and disappointing, to be sure, and it would have been magical to win it. But, as Belichick always says and others have pointed out, the game was won and lost on 2 or 3 plays, any of which could have gone either way. I think it just goes to show that sometimes sports can be borderline random, and only our perception and post hoc bias transform it into a coherent narrative.

Manning led an incredible drive. Manningham made an incredible catch. Pierre-Paul is incredible. The Giants are an incredible team. But if an uncovered Welker catches a catchable ball, the Patriots win the game. I don't believe that happened for any particular reason, or that it means that the Giants are inarguably better than the Patriots -- it's just the nature of athletic competition and the arbitrariness of sport. Just as Sterling Moore happened to make a perfect play at a perfect moment against the Ravens, the perfect plays and moments went for the Giants last night.

Overall, I'm sorry the Patriots will have to live with this loss, particularly Kraft (who seemed devastated) and Welker (who I hope will be able to move on). I'm happy for the Giants' organization, especially the Mara family, who have been doing good for the NFL and the New York area for decades.

Hopefully we'll be back next year, with a better team and a better outcome.

Edit: And as someone said elsewhere, this wasn't the '07 juggernaut, 30 seconds from perfection with a 4 point lead. This was a flawed 13-3 team that wouldn't have been in the Super Bowl if not for a Sterling Moore deflection. It was an agonizingly close loss to a worthy opponent. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap, drink some good liquor, and get back on the horse.

Many thanks for this reality check, D ... as for me, I'm consoled by looking forward to what a substantial cap space and a few key picks will do to put the Pats back in play for next season.

[SoxVindaloo]

To each his own, but for me this isn't even close to as painful. After SB 42 I couldn't sleep that night. I was a mess. It was then that I realized, at the tender age of 38, that *IT IS JUST A GAME*. My life doesn't change if they win and it doesn't change if they lose. I have nothing to do with them winning or losing. I cannot influence the outcome. I am not suddenly relieved of my responsibilities as a husband, father, worker, or coach if they win or lose. I wake up the next morning and basically life is the exact same.

This doesn't mean I'm not a big fan - I am. But that day I realized that I cannot - for my own health - live and die with sports outcomes. Not to say that I'm not frustrated with the loss, because I am, but it really is not that big of a deal.

So I completely understand how down people feel...believe me, I do. But I am grateful that I've come to terms with my fandom and can live with my teams losing. Again, it's sports. It's entertainment. It's nothing more than that, no matter how we may wish to spin it otherwise.

Yes This. I think you and I are about the same age, and I will never take anything as hard as SB 42 going forward. Last night sucked and I tossed and turned a bit, but it is definitely better than the zombie state I was in 4 years ago.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

And as someone said elsewhere, this wasn't the '07 juggernaut, 30 seconds from perfection with a 4 point lead. This was a flawed 13-3 team that wouldn't have been in the Super Bowl if not for a Sterling Moore deflection. It was an agonizingly close loss to a worthy opponent.

To me, that's why this one is harder to take than '07/'08. As crushing as it was, everyone including me expected the Patriots to win that Super Bowl and it was basically a fluke that they didn't. It hurt, but in my mind, it fell into the "life is unfair, get over it" category. I could accept that.

This year, on the other hand, it seems like no one expected them to win anything, all year. All I heard as this team was rolling up win after win was how bad the defense was and how we were headed for another devastating first-round playoff defeat. This hoped-for Super Bowl victory to me would have been much sweeter and a much greater validation of the Belichick/Brady/Kraft "Patriot Way" than '07/'08 would have been. That year, they had a steamroller that flattened everything its path, but the engine broke down at the worst possible moment. Sucks, but it happens.

This year, they had to win with resourcefulness, tenacity and intelligence. In the end, they didn't have enough of any of those things to get the job done, and that, to me, hurts a lot more.

[Ed Hillel]

On the intentional grounding call... apologies if this has been brought up already, but what is the difference between what Brady did, and a QB chucking the ball into the stands behind the end zone when a goal-to-go play goes awry? Every week in the NFL, we see QBs get pressured in the red zone and just chuck it through the end zone into the stands for an incompletion. I have never, not once, seen this called as intentional grounding.

By the book, the refs probably made the correct call (kind of like the Tuck Rule, I suppose). But what made Brady's throw different than just chucking it into the end zone stands?

By rule, a ball chucked out the back of an endzone can't be grounding. Not really sure why, but it is what it is and all that.

[Zomp]

I think because its probably harder to prove it was intentional grounding out of the back of the endzone. The QB could always say, "It just sailed out of my hand".

[ifmanis5]

No sleep last night. Zombie at work. FML.

[soxhop411]

No sleep last night. Zombie at work. FML.

when you go home from work take something to knock you out so you can get sleep. thats what i did

[dcmissle]

No sleep last night. Zombie at work. FML.

1. Find and channel your inner Hyman Roth. All of us are buying into a weird ritual in which we're entrusting our happiness, at least momentarily, entirely to others. Nobody put a gun to our heads.

2. It could be better, but it could almost certainly be worse. We could be Bills fans 20 years ago.

3. How much do you remember of last year's SB?

Edited by dcmissle, 06 February 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[ifmanis5]

Only upside is that I'll not be watching ESPN for about a month.

[loshjott]

Dynasties -- or any championship winning seasons -- are fickle things and often turn on one play.

If Roger Craig doesn't fumble, or if Norwood doesn't miss, what is the Parcells legacy? Does Belichick's game plan still go to the Hall of Fame if Norwood makes that kick?

What if Dwight Clark lets The Catch bounce off his finger tips? The legend of Joe Montana is a little different - and I'm sure Bengals fans can point to a single play that wasn't made in that final Montana to Taylor drive.

Or if Richard Seymour doesn't stop that 3rd and short in the Snow Bowl? Or if the tuck rule play happens outside of 2 minutes, with the Pats out of challenges, vs. inside 2 minutes when the refs controlled the challenge?

And of course we have Assante's non-pick and now Welker's non-catch. And Dave Roberts, in another sport.

I don't really have a point - other than the fact that championships and dynasties and legacies in pro sports are so fragile and often turn on the very very tiniest small thing in one single play. Not that these plays were lucky or unlucky; one team executed and the other did not - just so, so very close to happening the other way.

Last night was so frustrating to all Hell.

[PseuFighter]

at least i got to watch the 12pm local nyc news of unemployed, toothless giants fans lining up at modells at 3am to piss money away on t-shirts.

[H78]

This game was lost by the coaching in the final two or three minutes. Your guys have to know when to let them score when you have a 2 point lead well into field goal range. One minute left for your offense isn't enough when kickers are burying balls on kickoffs in today's NFL. 80 yards in 57 seconds is too far, but not 90 seconds with TWO timeouts.

Belichick and Brady have equally bad decision making capabilities late in critical games these days. The end-of-game coaching reminded me of the Buffalo game earlier this season.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

This game was lost by the coaching in the final two or three minutes. Your guys have to know when to let them score when you have a 2 point lead well into field goal range. One minute left for your offense isn't enough when kickers are burying balls on kickoffs in today's NFL. 80 yards in 57 seconds is too far, but not 90 seconds with TWO timeouts.

Belichick and Brady have equally bad decision making capabilities late in critical games these days. The end-of-game coaching reminded me of the Buffalo game earlier this season.

Yes and after the Buffalo game we pretty much all agreed that the "let them score" strategy is pretty much impossible to pull off and beyond a resonable and executable strategy. Especially when a team is still 15 or 20 yards out from the end zone.

I don't know if you were inolved in that discussion, I hope you weren't so that you can just go read it and put this gripe to bed now.

[cshea]

One of the frustrating things to me has been the Pats recent history of failing to convert first downs that essentially would end games. It seems that ever since the Brady/Brown goof on 3rd and 7 in the '06 AFCCG, the Pats have been unable to execute the end of the game plays that would ice the game. 4th and 2 against the Colts, the 4th and 1 against the Chargers, the last series against the Ravens a week ago, etc. I'm sure I'm missing a few more. Regardless of who you want to place the blame on, they once again could not execute on 2nd and 3rd down in a spot where a 1st down comes close to ending the game, given the Giants TO situation. Frustrating.

[BigSoxFan]

One of the frustrating things to me has been the Pats recent history of failing to convert first downs that essentially would end games. It seems that ever since the Brady/Brown goof on 3rd and 7 in the '06 AFCCG, the Pats have been unable to execute the end of the game plays that would ice the game. 4th and 2 against the Colts, the 4th and 1 against the Chargers, the last series against the Ravens a week ago, etc. I'm sure I'm missing a few more. Regardless of who you want to place the blame on, they once again could not execute on 2nd and 3rd down in a spot where a 1st down comes close to ending the game, given the Giants TO situation. Frustrating.

They get very one-dimensional in those situations because teams know the run can't burn them. We need a more balanced approach.

[drleather2001]

I'm honestly the most pissed about the Giants obviously bullshit "injuries" near the end of the game.

Killed momentum.

Say what you want, but it's cheating. I know lots of teams do it, but that doesn't make it ok.

They should be docked a draft pick!

[H78]

Once McCourty made the tackle at the 1 it was impossible to execute. But had McCourty known that should a man break inside the 20 you should just let him go, it would not have been impossible in that game. And don't come at me with the "instincts" argument - he has a brain and he's coachable.

They should have at least TRIED to let the Giants score once the clock was under two minutes. I believe a player's ego will usually compell them to run in, just as we saw with 57 seconds left. Coaching blew this (among other things).

[ShaneTrot]

Now that I am starting to recover, one thing that sticks out was how hard the teams hit each other. The Pats and Giants really went at it. I can remember some big hits by Chung, Spikes and Moore. I would love to see what Spikes could do if he was healthy for a full season. He is a beast.

[bowiac]

Say what you want, but it's cheating. I know lots of teams do it, but that doesn't make it ok.

Eh. Not sure what can be done. I suppose you can give each team one injury timeout, and beyond that just start docking teams 5 yard delay of game penalties.

[smastroyin]

By rule, a ball chucked out the back of an endzone can't be grounding. Not really sure why, but it is what it is and all that.

They can call it if the QB is in the pocket and under imminent pressure. It is always controversial when they do call it but I have seen it (although now I think about it that was before the rulebook got Peyton Manning'd)

Anyway, It's not just the pass to nowhere. It's the pass to nowhere from between the tackles with Justin Tuck a heartbeat away from plastering you.

[Mugsys Jock]

I am back at work now, in NYC. Giant fan colleagues are actually going relatively easy on me, but walking through Times Square is no fun.

Sorry this has been beaten to death, but for me this isn't as painful as SB42. I knew that team was better, and one of the best in history... this year's Patriots team, while excellent, had hardly proved that it was the best in the league, or even in the top 4 or so.

And on another point, I'm a Rhody native and rabid Boston fan, living in NYC now for 25 years. Of the teams that matter (that leaves out the Nets), the only one I don't hate is the Giants. Unlike all the other teams, the Giants have great ownership, a substantial majority of realistic, non-thuggish, intelligent fans, and a roster almost complete devoid of douchebags. Even while they were allegedly "mouthing off" last week, there wasn't anything really untoward... save maybe the open disrespect of Edelman. They have a pretty likable and well-spoken roster (save maybe Brandon Jacobs), and I'm a big admirer of Tom Coughlin.

In the NFL, I hate the Jets unreservedly... their players and fans are morons. I hate the Steelers, although their coach seems like a cool guy. And I hate the Ravens too -- but that's a little more nuanced because I deeply respect Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and Hloti Ngata and Ray Rice. But Anquan Boldin, Bernard Pollard, and those ugly black pants just push them over the line.

[jsinger121]

Eh. Not sure what can be done. I suppose you can give each team one injury timeout, and beyond that just start docking teams 5 yard delay of game penalties.

I think the best thing that can get done is that player misses the rest of that series and can't come back into the game until the next series. Players will think twice about faking injuries then.

[Fishercat]

I think the best thing that can get done is that player misses the rest of that series and can't come back into the game until the next series. Players will think twice about faking injuries then.

That seems like the best option. The main issue with penalties is that you should have intent behind it and in the case of injuries like the TE's, they were both very real, so punishing those wouldn't be fair. If the game requires an injury timeout to remove a player from the field, they should have to sit out the remainder of the series. In this past game, it would have worked since Ballard and Beckum were out for the game anyway.

Granted, you could get around this situationally and a coach may deem it worthwhile to lose the use of one of their lesser players in exchange for an uncharged breather, but that and the 12-man rule should be up in the competition committee's docket this offseason

[TomRicardo]

Solid effort by the defense? The defense allowed 19 points, thats not good.

Terrible

Brady's 34 years old. BB's 60.

Tough to think its going to continue endlessly. I think the window closed tonight.

Even worse.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Was I the only one screaming for them to go for it after the Welker/Branch drops at 4th and 10? They were on, what, the 45? Which is where Manningham got the Giants in about 45 seconds? I think you have to take one more shot at the first down there. Either way, you're giving the ball back and you know the Giants only have to get a field goal in nearly 4 minutes of time. That seemed like a fait accompli to me. Maybe it shows you "don't trust your defense," but I think you've got to do everything you can there to keep the ball. Guys were getting open. It was worth the shot.

[H78]

The one positive I took away from this game is Sterling Moore may turn out to be a true steal. Kid can play and got beat on the Manningham play only because the throw was perfect.

[Freddy Linn]

This was infuriating:

[bluefenderstrat]

The Patriots should be the favorite to win the AFC when camps open in 5 months. They've got 2 first & second round picks (of course, one of the first will probably be traded) and tons of cap room to add (or retain) a couple of impact veterans. It's been a fucking JOY to watch this team win 75% of its games for a goddamn decade even as the roster has turned almost completely over, and they're still poised to be near the top for years to come. Yeah, the last two SB losses have been a hard kick to the nuts, and the AFC championship loss to the Colts is right up there, but this is an incredible organization and most NFL fans would kill to have a few of our "bad" years. I guess I've just learned to enjoy the ride.

Edit: they are in fact the favorites to win the 2013 SB:

http://www.bloomberg...nts-at-8-1.html

Edited by bluefenderstrat, 06 February 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Al Zarilla]

Was I the only one screaming for them to go for it after the Welker/Branch drops at 4th and 10? They were on, what, the 45? Which is where Manningham got the Giants in about 45 seconds? I think you have to take one more shot at the first down there. Either way, you're giving the ball back and you know the Giants only have to get a field goal in nearly 4 minutes of time. That seemed like a fait accompli to me. Maybe it shows you "don't trust your defense," but I think you've got to do everything you can there to keep the ball. Guys were getting open. It was worth the shot.

No. Someday, someday, someday, this team will be able to stop a team pinned back inside the 20 with 1 timeout and a couple of minutes left. Besides, a very short drive from where the ball would be turned over if the Pats don't make it and the Giants are set up for a game winning field goal. And, you can't assume the Giants are going to complete a long pass in no time and get out near midfield. Have to just give it to them for play execution when they needed it and the opposite for the Pats. Sure seems like something went awry compared to the early 2000s teams.

[Shelterdog]

The Patriots should be the favorite to win the AFC when camps open in 5 months. They've got 2 first & second round picks (of course, one of the first will probably be traded) and tons of cap room to add (or retain) a couple of impact veterans. It's been a fucking JOY to watch this team win 75% of its games for a goddamn decade even as the roster has turned almost completely over, and they're still poised to be near the top for years to come. Yeah, the last two SB losses have been a hard kick to the nuts, and the AFC championship loss to the Colts is right up there, but this is an incredible organization and most NFL fans would kill to have a few of our "bad" years. I guess I've just learned to enjoy the ride.

Edit: they are in fact the favorites to win the 2013 SB:

http://www.bloomberg...nts-at-8-1.html

The amazing thing is that they went to a superbowl in a year that an awful lot of things went wrong--they had a fairly high number of injuries, the 2011 draft wasn't all that productive this year, and they got crappy production from a lot of their major off-season acquisitions. For most teams that's a formula for missing the playoffs.

[dynomite]

Sure seems like something went awry compared to the early 2000s teams.

We had a lead in the Super Bowl with 4 minutes left and the ball, and a wide receiver wide open at the opponent's 20 yard line.

If that's "awry," sign me the hell up for awry.

[ronald47]

Dynasties -- or any championship winning seasons -- are fickle things and often turn on one play.

If Roger Craig doesn't fumble, or if Norwood doesn't miss, what is the Parcells legacy? Does Belichick's game plan still go to the Hall of Fame if Norwood makes that kick?

What if Dwight Clark lets The Catch bounce off his finger tips? The legend of Joe Montana is a little different - and I'm sure Bengals fans can point to a single play that wasn't made in that final Montana to Taylor drive.

Or if Richard Seymour doesn't stop that 3rd and short in the Snow Bowl? Or if the tuck rule play happens outside of 2 minutes, with the Pats out of challenges, vs. inside 2 minutes when the refs controlled the challenge?

And of course we have Assante's non-pick and now Welker's non-catch. And Dave Roberts, in another sport.

I don't really have a point - other than the fact that championships and dynasties and legacies in pro sports are so fragile and often turn on the very very tiniest small thing in one single play. Not that these plays were lucky or unlucky; one team executed and the other did not - just so, so very close to happening the other way.

Last night was so frustrating to all Hell.

It's not quite on topic but your post immediately made me think of this

[BigSoxFan]

Was I the only one screaming for them to go for it after the Welker/Branch drops at 4th and 10? They were on, what, the 45? Which is where Manningham got the Giants in about 45 seconds? I think you have to take one more shot at the first down there. Either way, you're giving the ball back and you know the Giants only have to get a field goal in nearly 4 minutes of time. That seemed like a fait accompli to me. Maybe it shows you "don't trust your defense," but I think you've got to do everything you can there to keep the ball. Guys were getting open. It was worth the shot.

This is where that 1st down run for nothing really cost them. If it were 4th and 5 and not 4th and 11, Belichick may have gone for it given that there was a strong likelihood of Eli moving the ball on them. I do know that my confidence in a Patriots defense to make a game-saving stop is zero right now. We never get the sacks that other teams seem to get on us.

[pedrosdaddy]

Brady's 34 years old. BB's 60.

Tough to think its going to continue endlessly. I think the window closed tonight.

lol

yeah, if only they had two first round draft picks and two seconds in 2012 then MAYBE there would be hope for the team that has won ~30 games the last two seasons and had two #1 seeds.

/sarcasm

[ObstructedView]

To each his own, but for me this isn't even close to as painful. After SB 42 I couldn't sleep that night. I was a mess. It was then that I realized, at the tender age of 38, that *IT IS JUST A GAME*. My life doesn't change if they win and it doesn't change if they lose. I have nothing to do with them winning or losing. I cannot influence the outcome. I am not suddenly relieved of my responsibilities as a husband, father, worker, or coach if they win or lose. I wake up the next morning and basically life is the exact same.

This doesn't mean I'm not a big fan - I am. But that day I realized that I cannot - for my own health - live and die with sports outcomes. Not to say that I'm not frustrated with the loss, because I am, but it really is not that big of a deal.

So I completely understand how down people feel...believe me, I do. But I am grateful that I've come to terms with my fandom and can live with my teams losing. Again, it's sports. It's entertainment. It's nothing more than that, no matter how we may wish to spin it otherwise.

This pretty well captures where I am today. Now that I'm 40 and have 3 school-age boys who are just now becoming sports fans, I find myself being a lot more self-aware during times like these. As the final seconds ticked off last night and my 7-year-old realized that his beloved Brady wasn't going to deliver ("Daddy, I don't think they can score..."), I was forced to exude the type of measured perspective that would have eluded me in the past. I explained that these games are hard to win, that it's really difficult to even get this far and we should be thankful, etc. Today I'm just sad -- sad that this entertaining season is over, and sad that we have to get through the two most depressing months of the New England calendar (sports-wise and weather-wise). But that will pass soon enough, and we'll be on to the next thing.

[Three10toLeft]

lol

yeah, if only they had two first round draft picks and two seconds in 2012 then MAYBE there would be hope for the team that has won ~30 games the last two seasons and had two #1 seeds.

/sarcasm

Unless you're picking in the top 10, it's pretty rare to find players that can contribute immediately to your teams success. Especially in this offense which seems to run a pretty complex scheme.

So, in two years, when these guys are able to probably be a factor, Brady will be 36 and BB will be 62. So yeah, this window is closing, if it hasn't already.

[D-Piddy nation]

One thing I havent heard anything about is when Brady spiked the ball with nineteen seconds left, the clock kept running to seventeen. Al Michaels even made a comment about it but the officials and the Pats seemed not to notice. Not saying it cost them the game, but they might have gotten one extra play in and horrible job by the timekeeper.

[Three10toLeft]

One thing I havent heard anything about is when Brady spiked the ball with nineteen seconds left, the clock kept running to seventeen. Al Michaels even made a comment about it but the officials and the Pats seemed not to notice. Not saying it cost them the game, but they might have gotten one extra play in and horrible job by the timekeeper.

I noticed that as well.

I can't remember which play it was exactly, but it seemed like the ticker kept rolling a couple extra seconds off of an incomplete pass as well.

[Corsi]

Unless you're picking in the top 10, it's pretty rare to find players that can contribute immediately to your teams success. Especially in this offense which seems to run a pretty complex scheme.

Were you in a coma when they drafted Gronkowski and Hernandez?

[Three10toLeft]

Were you in a coma when they drafted Gronkowski and Hernandez?

This is their second years respectively. They were good in their rookie years, but they weren't the dominant forces that we know them now. Or dominant force, rather. I think Hernandez is good, but not a game changer.

[Toe Nash]

This is their second years respectively. They were good in their rookie years, but they weren't the dominant forces that we know them now. Or dominant force, rather. I think Hernandez is good, but not a game changer.

This is wrong. Gronkowski caught 10 TDs his rookie year, 7th in the league among all positions. That's a pretty big factor.

Not to mention maybe all the guys they drafted this year can contribute next year if your theory that guys can't step in immediately and contribute is true. Which it isn't.

[BigSoxFan]

This is their second years respectively. They were good in their rookie years, but they weren't the dominant forces that we know them now. Or dominant force, rather. I think Hernandez is good, but not a game changer.

Hernandez not a game changer? Did you watch the first half?

[lexrageorge]

Unless you're picking in the top 10, it's pretty rare to find players that can contribute immediately to your teams success. Especially in this offense which seems to run a pretty complex scheme.

So, in two years, when these guys are able to probably be a factor, Brady will be 36 and BB will be 62. So yeah, this window is closing, if it hasn't already.

Yes, especially if guys like Ras-I Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, McCourty, Deadrick, and Spikes never improve. And especially if the Pats can't use their $28M in cap space next year on improving in certain areas. And especially if the Pats can't draft another Gronkowski or Hernandez in the later rounds.

Are you running for worst post of the year award?

[collings94]

What we really need is a deep threat to stretch the field. Ochocinco couldn't do that and are other receivers are too small. We need a real burner, like Alshon Jeffery, or we could trade up and snag Justin Blackmon. Imagine the Pats offense with him on the outside?

Also, I think the loss of Andre Carter is being over looked here.

[RedOctober3829]

What we really need is a deep threat to stretch the field. Ochocinco couldn't do that and are other receivers are too small. We need a real burner, like Alshon Jeffery, or we could trade up and snag Justin Blackmon. Imagine the Pats offense with him on the outside?

Also, I think the loss of Andre Carter is being over looked here.

They aren't trading up for anyone in the top 10. That is not what this team does. Alshon Jeffery is a possibility at the end of the 1st round, but they need to draft defense in the first round.

[jsinger121]

They aren't trading up for anyone in the top 10. That is not what this team does. Alshon Jeffery is a possibility at the end of the 1st round, but they need to draft defense in the first round.

It all depends on what they do in free agency first before we can say for sure they need more defense. Frankly I'd rather get some veterans to blend into to that defense.

[Three10toLeft]

Yes, especially if guys like Ras-I Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, McCourty, Deadrick, and Spikes never improve. And especially if the Pats can't use their $28M in cap space next year on improving in certain areas. And especially if the Pats can't draft another Gronkowski or Hernandez in the later rounds.

Are you running for worst post of the year award?

How much longer do you seriously think Brady and Belichick will be here with Brady still playing at a high level? The window is closing. Regardless of the stats this year, they aren't getting any younger. I'm not talking about the Pats as a franchise, I'm speaking directly about the combination of Brady and Belichick.

How many fucking Gronk's do you see running around the league being scooped up in the later rounds of the draft? Do you think they fucking grow on trees?

Hernandez not a game changer? Did you watch the first half?

I'm not disputing he's a weapon, but not a game changer. See, Gronkowski.

This is wrong. Gronkowski caught 10 TDs his rookie year, 7th in the league among all positions. That's a pretty big factor.

Not to mention maybe all the guys they drafted this year can contribute next year if your theory that guys can't step in immediately and contribute is true. Which it isn't.

I'm not saying a rookie can't make an impact, it's just rare for one to do so in the position in which we will be drafting, without trading up.

I don't believe Rob's 10 touchdowns as a rookie had as much to do with his knowledge/grasp of the offense, as it had to do with his size allowing him to be a huge red zone target. 8 of those 10 TD's came from inside the 13 yard line.

[RedOctober3829]

It all depends on what they do in free agency first before we can say for sure they need more defense. Frankly I'd rather get some veterans to blend into to that defense.

That is true. But, I don't think you are going to solve the defensive line/front seven in free agency with what is there. Mario Williams is going to be very expensive and not something BB typically goes for. Calais Campbell is going to be franchised. Robert Mathis might be someone they can target. Getting someone in the draft such as Nick Perry or Chandler Jones to help the front seven would be good. Also, Mark Barron to upgrade safety is a key.

They have to address the CB position in free agency.

[PeaceSignMoose]

I'm not disputing he's a weapon, but not a game changer. See, Gronkowski.

That's a pretty dubious distinction. Where the hell do you draw the line between weapon and game changer? Best in the league at his position? The guy would have had 1,000 yards receiving if he didn't miss time, and is a matchup disaster for nearly every team in the league.

[Corsi]

I'd argue that Aaron Hernandez is the embodiment of game changer.