305 replies to this topic

[Section15Box113]

Tough to think its going to continue endlessly. I think the window closed tonight.

Agree with statement #1. Not sure that statement #2 follows, however.

[Carmine Hose]

Wes Welker thought it was an easy catch. This post game interview is brutal to watch.

[ilol@u]

I'm going to move to Indonesia so I can pretend the Patriots won since everybody will be wearing Patriot Super Bowl T-shirts.

[Ed Hillel]

The 2nd down throw to Welker made him turn all the way around, with the Safety 4 yards away. Brady missed it, the corner was outside as well, if you make that pass you have to thread the 3 yard wide needle. The 3rd down throw to Branch was almost as bad. The incompletion to a wide open Branch on the last drive was also a missed throw, if he leads Branch away from the underneath defender, they have the ball at midfield with ~ 40 seconds left. He is still one of the best, I wish he quarterbacked for my team, but that loss is on Brady, not any of his receivers.

On Brady!?

The 3rd down pass was tipped and Branch should have sat because he was running into the view of a LB.

Maybe Brady's throw to Welker wasn't perfect, but it was easily catchable and Brady had to be careful where to put it. Welker catches it probably 95% of the time.

I don't blame Welker, I just hate havIng that image.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I've heard that the window has closed for at least each of the past 5 years. The Pats have a lot of talent, a good amount of youth, good cap situation, and strong management. Eventually Brady and Belichick will be gone, but is there a legitimate reason that this team can't contend next year?

[Dollar]

Am I the only one who thought this incomplete pass to Branch with a few seconds left should have been reviewed?

sorry for the poor quality, only video of the play on Youtube

Edited by Dollar, 05 February 2012 - 11:09 PM.

[Bongorific]

The NFL is a coin flip. Makes it hard to get as emotional over a game vs baseball.

Having said that, the grounding call was bullshit. No way refs can say welker wouldn't break inside. How's does having 12 men not put time back on the clock? Shit, put 15 guys in the field to guarantee you break up the play and you still get to burn time. Genius!

[mascho]

I'm going to move to Indonesia so I can pretend the Patriots won since everybody will be wearing Patriot Super Bowl T-shirts.

That made me laugh for the first time tonight since Jake Ballard blew out his knee jogging on the sideline.

For that, you are forever my hero.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

The 2 fumbles that bounced right to Giants were very lucky...but thats the breaks sometimes. I have NEVER EVER seen a throw in the middle of the field call intentional grounding....that call was absurd.

I was saying exactly that at the time. Yes, by the rules I guess it's grounding. But that's kind of a bullshit call to make in the Super Bowl.

There actually was a receiver crossing the middle of the field, too. No blaming the refs -- it's Brady's mistake. But at that same time, I don't blame him for assuming that call would not be made.

[scottyno]

God, you know what? The Patriots are kind of like the Yankees from 1996-2004 at this point.

except for the part where they win by outspending the league by 2x

[Turrable]

Pretty sure the football gods are just trolling us now.

I bet my english teacher that if the Giants won I would wear his Yankees sweater all day. Awesome.

[KingPK]

Injured Gronk and an insane safety. Fuckin' bummer.

Let's build a goddamn defense and try again.

That goddamn defense gave up 19 points.

[Reggie's Racquet]

The one thing we can be thankful for is that this team did not quit. Unlike another local team that I am not looking forward to watching this season.

[ngruz25]

How's does having 12 men not put time back on the clock? Shit, put 15 guys in the field to guarantee you break up the play and you still get to burn time. Genius!

This makes absolutely no sense to me. What's the offense supposed to do? The Giants actually benefited from their penalty because it ended up being a 5 yard gain that cost 8 seconds.

Also, am I the only one that thought Hernandez got mugged on that pass? Perhaps it was uncatchable but there sure was a lot of contact downfield. I may have to see it again.

I get WHY grounding was called, but it's an infuriating call nonetheless. That's a play that happens once a game, maybe, and it's never called grounding. How often do QB's throw the ball 30 feet in the air out of the back of the endzone? Those passes are obviously intended to not be caught either, and they're never called grounding. What's the point of the rule, then? For that to be called in the Super Bowl for a safety... argggggggghh.

Edited by ngruz25, 05 February 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[Tyrone Biggums]

One thing I'm surprised about is no one is mentioning the Rolle "Injury" timeout...Giants have been faking injuries all year

[ilol@u]

The NFL is a coin flip. Makes it hard to get as emotional over a game vs baseball.

Having said that, the grounding call was bullshit. No way refs can say welker wouldn't break inside. How's does having 12 men not put time back on the clock? Shit, put 15 guys in the field to guarantee you break up the play and you still get to burn time. Genius!

Somebody mentioned this in the game-thread, but I'm sure you have a lot of guys on the field the QB would quickly spike the ball and take the free 5 yards in exchange for 1 second.

[Maalox]

Some of you guys goat-hunting do know there are four quarters in a football game, right?

This. There are several mistakes that you could point to as "the mistake that cost them the game." But the thing about that is: they made ALL of them.

If you make like 9 mistakes, It's hard to argue that it's mistake #6 or whatever that cost you, as if the others didn't. They made so many that one of them was certain to cost them. The more you make the more times you tried to flush the game down the toilet. Eventually you are going to succeed.

In retrospect, they simply did not play well enough to win, in any aspect of the game. Did they make a single big play, a single play that made you say, "that's the play that changes the game"? I can't think of one.

I can think of several that made me say, "we're fucked if we don't come back from that." That's not good.

The whole time I was watching the game I felt a win in our grasp, but in retrospect it wasn't ever quite in our grasp. Within our reach maybe, but no closer than that. In retrospect. We beat ourselves.

[Bongorific]

Am I the only one who thought this incomplete pass to Branch with a few seconds left should have been reviewed?

sorry for the poor quality, only video of the play on Youtube

Yeah it was a catch and under 2 minutes. Automatic review. The pats should have iced the game themselves, but another example of a mediocre officiating night.

[ngruz25]

On that Branch play, I'm pretty sure he bobbled it right after that screen grab. Probably still should have been reviewed anyways, but whatever.

[Ed Hillel]

Seriously? Easy catch? That's bullshit.

He was turned and the ball hit him in both hands. For Wes Welker, that is almost always a catch.

Like I said I don't make him a goat, I just feel bad for him.

[Corsi]

He cost them the fucking game. END OF STORY.

There's no way i resign him now. 8 milliion a year? Um, no. Fuck right off.

Glad you're not running the team.

[Gunfighter 09]

Yeah it was a catch and under 2 minutes. Automatic review.

REALLY? Fucking Really? This sentiment is not amusing in Baltimore.

Edited by Gunfighter 09, 05 February 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[Bongorific]

REALLY? FUCKING REALLY?

For real

[Jimy Hendrix]

That goddamn defense gave up 19 points.

Yeah, defense played a pretty solid game for this defense, but if we want a better team next year, that's what still needs to improve and has the room for improvement. Offense could use some better depth wideouts and more dynamism at RB, but there's comparatively less to fix on that side of the ball besides the best pass catcher not being taken out in the AFC Championship game.

[Jungleland]

Brady bookended a pretty incredible game with 3 horrible plays. The safety, the Welker throw, and the throw to Branch the next play. He makes a good throw on any one of those plays and they probably win.

[jaytf123]

Even if Assante made the catch he would not have stayed in bounds. Call me a very sore loser but I would have rather lost to the Ravens who I still think were the better team. In 07 I would not have wanted to lose to the Chargers and finished 17-1. I wanted to go to the Super Bowl. This hurt so bad I would have rather lost to the Ravens. WHY?????????????? Because it's a stinkingt New York team and we lose to the Giants again. Had we lost this way to the Packers or Saints or Niners I wouldn't have felt quite as bad. A stinking 9-7 New York team. I really believe the Ravens would have beaten the Giants. Yeah call me bitter??? A little bit. little bit. THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And to think we could have taken care of this had we beaten this team in week 9.

Edited by jaytf123, 06 February 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Section15Box113]

The throw underneath to Hernandez on the final drive was really what was tough, though if a play to the sideline was there, Brady would have taken it. Bottom line? Cost 0:15 down to 0:17.

Then the play with 12 men took it down 0:08 (down to 0:09).

The Branch incompletion on the sideline would have put you at the 38 with 0:05. Just a shorter last-gasp heave.

[smastroyin]

I'm sure the replay official looked at it. There is plenty of time between plays. What he saw there was something so unquestionable that he didn't even bother calling down to stop play to have the on field official look at it.

That still captures just about the microsecond that Branch had a hand on the ball and both feet in. Not control of the ball, a hand on it. No way they would ever award that as a catch. Maybe in college football.

edit: and as far as shoddy officiating, people are kind of forgetting the almost never called holding play on 3rd and 1 that took the Giants out of FG range and ended a drive, setting up the first TD drive. It is weak sauce to talk about officiating here. I think they did about as clean a job as we have seen in a Super Bowl.

[Carmine Hose]

We need the inside story on the 12 men play because that led almost immediately to 9 NYG points. I mean, I don't recall seeing that type of circumstance happen, like, EVER!!!

[Ed Hillel]

Brady bookended a pretty incredible game with 3 horrible plays. The safety, the Welker throw, and the throw to Branch the next play. He makes a good throw on any one of those plays and they probably win.

Disagree on the Welker throw and the Branch pass was tipped slightly.

[SWHB]

Brady bookended a pretty incredible game with 3 horrible plays. The safety, the Welker throw, and the throw to Branch the next play. He makes a good throw on any one of those plays and they probably win.

The only throw that I thought was horrible was the Gronk pick. The safety was a bad throw and decision, but looked like an overthrow of Branch and I still can't believe it was called grounding. The Welker throw wasn't great, but was far better than horrible.

[Dollar]

That still captures just about the microsecond that Branch had a hand on the ball and both feet in. Not control of the ball, a hand on it. No way they would ever award that as a catch. Maybe in college football.

So... just like Manningham's catch?

[Ed Hillel]

We need the inside story on the 12 men play because that led almost immediately to 9 NYG points. I mean, I don't recall seeing that type of circumstance happen, like, EVER!!!

Um, what?

[Bongorific]

I'm sure the replay official looked at it. There is plenty of time between plays. What he saw there was something so unquestionable that he didn't even bother calling down to stop play to have the on field official look at it.

That still captures just about the microsecond that Branch had a hand on the ball and both feet in. Not control of the ball, a hand on it. No way they would ever award that as a catch. Maybe in college football.

edit: and as far as shoddy officiating, people are kind of forgetting the almost never called holding play on 3rd and 1 that took the Giants out of FG range and ended a drive, setting up the first TD drive. It is weak sauce to talk about officiating here. I think they did about as clean a job as we have seen in a Super Bowl.

Maybe. It feels similar to the end of the cards/steelers super bowl. Take the time to check the replay thoroughly. It's the freaking championship and a different call affords the offense an extra play. It's worth getting definitely correct.

[Gunfighter 09]

I wonder if Coughlin intentionally sent 12 men out there with the ball on his own 40 with less than 30 seconds left. The clock is more important than the yardage at that point.

[Dollar]

I wonder if Coughlin intentionally sent 12 men out there with the ball on his own 40 with less than 30 seconds left. The clock is more important than the yardage at that point.

Nah, he'd be better off sending 20 men out there if that was his plan.

[Reggie's Racquet]

Isn't it interesting we had 12 men on the field and it cost us dearly. They had 12 men on the field and it cost us and benefitted them. It is a strange world sometimes.

[Carmine Hose]

Um, what?

Sorry , 7 points.They scored 2 plays later.

[Jungleland]

I can't believe he made the deep ball mistake two games in a row.

[gingerbreadmann]

Does anyone have the video of Kraft's reaction to the Hail Mary? I turned the TV off almost immediately.

[soPhisHticated]

Isn't it interesting we had 12 men on the field and it cost us dearly. They had 12 men on the field and it cost us and benefitted them. It is a strange world sometimes.

is this where you want to lay the blame? not the Pats lack of a respectable deep threat or a ground game?

not that strange. pats played nearly well enough. they cashed in the deferred toss bookend td opportunity - but managed only 3 other points, so it was not enough.

Quite the shame - tuesday would have been nice weather for a victory parade in Boston.

[Marbleheader]

Brady is no longer who we thought he was, and neither is Belichick. Really disappointed.

[BoredViewer]

* Brady's deep INT was crap. I was literally screaming at the TV as the play was happening (much to the bewilderment of my friends) "Dooooooooon't throoooooow itttttt deeeeeeeeeep!!!!!!!!"
Classic Brady underthrow on a deep ball.


* Didn't matter as they scored a TD anyway - but I thought the decision to not accept the offsides penalty just before half was wrong. I'd rather have potentially 3 or 4 shots from the 6 yd line, than 2 or 3 from the 4. Just me.

* If the 12 men on the field penalty is only going to cost you 5 yards... in situations like that... why not just put all 53 out there? Apparently the penalty isn't called before the play - so let em snap the ball and take 5 seconds for 5 yards.

* Poor coaching of the D at the end of the game. On 2nd and 3 - when Hicks caught the ball and was pushed out of bounds after a 4 yd gain... Patriots' D should've known... you play tight, you go for the INT/deflection... but you do not under any circumstances tackle a ball carrier after the 1st down marker.

Luckily Hicks went out of bounds... though that should've given the Giants enough time to realize... knee... knee.... kick, celebrate. They STILL ran the ball again... and again (let's assume the Hicks play was too close for the defender to make the right play) the Pats didn't let him run in.


On the other hand... if the Pats really thought blocking the kick was a better option than letting NY score - they shouldn't have let them run in on the 3rd play.


Probably didn't matter - but it irked me.

Edited by BoredViewer, 05 February 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[Harry Hooper]

I can't believe he made the deep ball mistake two games in a row.

??? There's no comparison on these. Brady had Gronk wide open deep and just horribly underthrew him, despite a full-body windup on the throw.

[Carmine Hose]

Watching the SB 46 version of the Tyree catch, the 38 yarder ot Manningham is classic Eli. He chucks a ball up for grabs into double coverage and gets a reception. Whereas when Brady chucks up a ball twice tonight, it ends up as 1) a safety, and 2) and INT.

[bowiac]

I wonder if Coughlin intentionally sent 12 men out there with the ball on his own 40 with less than 30 seconds left. The clock is more important than the yardage at that point.

An old Buddy Ryan defensive playbook surfaced a little bit ago, and this was literally one of the playcalls. It outright called for sending 12 men on the field for this very reason.

[Obscure Name]

fucking Kyle Williams

[ngruz25]

Brady is no longer who we thought he was, and neither is Belichick. Really disappointed.

Bottom line: when there's two minutes left in the game and one team needs a big drive, I don't trust this team anymore.

On offense, it's hard to move the ball 80 yards with little time when you have no deep threat whatsoever. Obviously Gronkowski would have been enormously helpful on that final drive but the Pats don't really have that guy that can pick up a quick 20-30 yards down the sideline.

On defense, when a team with a competent QB needs to drive and is throwing the ball all over the place, the secondary gets really exposed. The D-line is pretty good, but if they're not getting to the QB (and by getting to the QB I mean not letting him even throw the ball), this secondary doesn't stand a chance.

[chester]

This was Brady throwing horrible passes in the last few minutes of that game. the Welker pass was a terrible throw, not Welker's fault and the Branch pass where he would have likely gone 20-30 yards was a horrible pass. Brady also threw another duck into coverage for the interception, a ball he under throws by 10 yards. Brady played great in the middle, but when we need him most, he gave the game away.

Brady had a choice to set Welker up for a big hit after the catch or give him the chance to make a good catch. I hindsight he probably puts it only Welker.

[KingPK]

Yeah, defense played a pretty solid game for this defense, but if we want a better team next year, that's what still needs to improve and has the room for improvement. Offense could use some better depth wideouts and more dynamism at RB, but there's comparatively less to fix on that side of the ball besides the best pass catcher not being taken out in the AFC Championship game.

They HAVE a running game, they just don't fucking USE it. Green-Ellis got TEN carries (with 4.4 ypc). That's bullshit.