43 replies to this topic

[CJM]

Sam Bowie Jr. is getting his right knee 'scoped to "clear debris". I'm not even sure if this qualifies as news anymore.

[BigSoxFan]

Just fucking retire already.

[EddieYost]

That picture is hysterical.

[ifmanis5]

According to Rotoworld, Oden's health is worse than 'cleaning debris'

In addition to undergoing an arthroscopic procedure on Friday to remove debris from his right knee, a league source said that Oden has been experiencing discomfort in his ankles, where further testing revealed he has blood clots.

Interim General Manager Chad Buchanan said that in addition to the surgery on his right knee, there is a possibility for Oden to undergo further surgery on his left knee as well. While no one has gone on record yet saying it, it is nearly impossible to imagine a scenario where he makes it back this season with surgeries potentially being done on both knees and blood clots in his ankles.

[BucketOBalls]

He's gonna be pissed when we reach the cyberpunk age and everyone has these.

[BigSoxFan]

Greg Oden is a combination of 2012 Bill Walton and Kevin McHale.

[SoxFanInPdx]

Local radio here in Portland is kinda funny in a dark humor way. A lot of my friends are hardcore Blazer fans and I told them 2 years ago he'd never be back. Not sure if it was denial or what, but they laughed at me. Anyway, this team really is cursed. Imagine if they had picked Durant...

[Statman]

I remember DA being laughed at when he was rumored to be favoring Durant over Oden......

[Brickowski]

I would have taken Oden. When healthy he had the lateral mobility of a 6-5 player. His injury issues are a shame, really, because he could have been such a great, great player.

Edited by Brickowski, 03 February 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[NWsoxophile]

I'm surprised by this news as he looks pretty healthy jumping around on the dance floor of the club I work at just about every Saturday night.

[DanoooME]

Looks like it turned into his 3rd microfracture surgery...

Greg Oden has suffered yet another setback with his troublesome knees.

The often-injured 7-foot center was undergoing a minor procedure Monday to clear out debris in his left knee in Vail, Colo., when the surgeon determined there was additional damage and performed microfracture surgery, the Portland Trail Blazers said.

The former No. 1 pick in the 2007 NBA draft has now had two microfracture surgeries on his left knee, and one on his right. He has also undergone surgery for a fractured left kneecap.

The Blazers say Oden will not play this season.

He makes Shaun Livingston look like Cal Ripken.

Edited by DanoooME, 21 February 2012 - 12:22 AM.

[Nick Kaufman]

Interim General Manager Chad Buchanan

That name has a sort of poetic ring on it for anyone who remembers the 2000 Fla election debacle.

[SemperFidelisSox]

For a team that made one of the biggest draft blunders in NBA history, the Blazers are actually 60 games over .500 since drafting Oden in '07. They've been able to put a competetive playoff team on the floor for three seasons now, despite getting next to nothing from Oden since the second he was drafted. And that has to be the most frustrating thing of all for Portland and their fans. Being teased year after year with a team that is just good enough to lose in the first round, when a healthy Oden could have been the missing piece these past few years.

[BigSoxFan]

For a team that made one of the biggest draft blunders in NBA history, the Blazers are actually 60 games over .500 since drafting Oden in '07. They've been able to put a competetive playoff team on the floor for three seasons now, despite getting next to nothing from Oden since the second he was drafted. And that has to be the most frustrating thing of all for Portland and their fans. Being teased year after year with a team that is just good enough to lose in the first round, when a healthy Oden could have been the missing piece these past few years.

Don't forget losing their 2006 lottery pick (Brandon Roy) to knee issues as well. The basketball gods HATE the Pacific Northwest. They killed the knees of Oden/Roy and took a future title contender away from Seattle. Ouch.

[teddykgb]

Roy's knees being a ticking time bomb were a very well known issue prior to the draft. You could argue that the basketball gods blesed them with a few more solid years of Brandon Roy than they even had a right to expect.

[nighthob]

Don't forget losing their 2006 lottery pick (Brandon Roy) to knee issues as well. The basketball gods HATE the Pacific Northwest. They killed the knees of Oden/Roy and took a future title contender away from Seattle. Ouch.

Both of Roy's knees were held together with duct tape and baling wire going into the 2006 draft, which is how he ended up going 6th rather than in the top 3. But, seriously, Portland's management needs to look at the list of centers that they've drafted and just accept that they should never draft another.

[moly99]

The basketball gods HATE the Pacific Northwest. They killed the knees of Oden/Roy and took a future title contender away from Seattle. Ouch.

Don't forget the Vancouver Grizzlies! In fairness, I remember paying $13 Canadian (about $10 US back then) to see them in 2001 and wondering how they were going to survive there. IIRC comparable Celtics tickets were about $50 back then. Although Stromile Swift and Bryant Reeves weren't the best draws. With Steve Nash I'm sure they would have drawn more fans, but probably still not enough.

[collings94]

I still can't knock Portland for taking him first. Even with a bum hand he played a great college basketball season, taking OSU to the championship game. I know everyone is a genius in hindsight, and there were some warning signs, but when you have a potential superstar Center, and a potential superstar Forward, you have to take the Center, they are just too rare to pass up.

[BigSoxFan]

I still can't knock Portland for taking him first. Even with a bum hand he played a great college basketball season, taking OSU to the championship game. I know everyone is a genius in hindsight, and there were some warning signs, but when you have a potential superstar Center, and a potential superstar Forward, you have to take the Center, they are just too rare to pass up.

Depends. Dwight Howard was Oden's absolute best case scenario. Would you rather have him or Durant? Tough call. Durant achieved top 3 status a lot quicker than I expected.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Depends. Dwight Howard was Oden's absolute best case scenario. Would you rather have him or Durant? Tough call. Durant achieved top 3 status a lot quicker than I expected.

I thought it was pretty widely believed that Oden was the clear no.1 pick of that draft. Am I mistaken?

And IIRC Ainge really wanted him and had he won the draft lottery would have used it on Oden.

[Marbleheader]

Ainge was pretty high on Durant and would have drafted him #1. Wyc confirmed that last year. Oden was the consensus #1.

[BigSoxFan]

I thought it was pretty widely believed that Oden was the clear no.1 pick of that draft. Am I mistaken?

And IIRC Ainge really wanted him and had he won the draft lottery would have used it on Oden.

No, you're right. Oden was certainly the consensus #1 pick. You didn't see Celtics fans making custom Durant jerseys before the draft lottery or anything. Ultimately, I think if Oden had stayed healthy, he certainly wouldn't have been a regrettable pick. Sure, Portland fans would have looked at Durant as a missed opportunity but Oden would have probably been a 15/10/3 guy in his prime and one of the top defensive centers in the league.

[collings94]

Depends. Dwight Howard was Oden's absolute best case scenario. Would you rather have him or Durant? Tough call. Durant achieved top 3 status a lot quicker than I expected.

I think Oden had more of offensive potential then Howard, but if I was picking right now in some sort of fantasy draft on who I want, I would much rather have KD then Howard. I think Dwight is the most overrated player int he league right now. Seriously, how much better is Dwight Howard then Kevin Love?

[Jed Zeppelin]

How important is defense to you?

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I think Oden had more of offensive potential then Howard, but if I was picking right now in some sort of fantasy draft on who I want, I would much rather have KD then Howard. I think Dwight is the most overrated player int he league right now. Seriously, how much better is Dwight Howard then Kevin Love?

Substantially better. Love is a stretch 4 with no post game who rebounds very well but plays no defense.

Howard is a traditional center with a good post game who rebounds better and is the league's most dominant defensive player.

[Brickowski]

I wouldn't call Howard's post game "good". I'd call it rudimentary. Oden was a better shooter, period, plus Oden could score with either hand.

[Jed Zeppelin]

It's good enough considering everything else he brings to the table.

[collings94]

Substantially better. Love is a stretch 4 with no post game who rebounds very well but plays no defense.

Howard is a traditional center with a good post game who rebounds better and is the league's most dominant defensive player.

Howard is a much better defender, but Love is a far superior offensive player, much better shooter, amazing passer, set's great screens, a lot of the little things. Howard's offensive game can look great at some moments and awful at others. If he doesn't get the ball for a little while he stops trying and has way too many games where he scores like, 2 pts in a half or something.

Think of it this way, Howard is the best Center in the league. Who's the second best? Roy Hibbert? Marc Gasol? Bynum? Howard is so much better then any player he is playing against, of course he's going to look dominant at times. So if Howard had an above average post game, is the first scoring option on his team, and is playing against guys that are half as good as him, shouldn't he averaging more then 20.1 ppg?

I'm not saying Kevin Love is better then Howard, just that the gap isn't that big.

[The Social Chair]

Love isn't in the same universe as Howard as a player. They don't play the same position so this argument is a little flawed, but the Magic and T-Wolves make the playoffs with Howard, and the Magic/T-Wolves don't with Love on their team.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Howard is a much better defender, but Love is a far superior offensive player, much better shooter, amazing passer, set's great screens, a lot of the little things. Howard's offensive game can look great at some moments and awful at others. If he doesn't get the ball for a little while he stops trying and has way too many games where he scores like, 2 pts in a half or something.

Think of it this way, Howard is the best Center in the league. Who's the second best? Roy Hibbert? Marc Gasol? Bynum? Howard is so much better then any player he is playing against, of course he's going to look dominant at times. So if Howard had an above average post game, is the first scoring option on his team, and is playing against guys that are half as good as him, shouldn't he averaging more then 20.1 ppg?

I'm not saying Kevin Love is better then Howard, just that the gap isn't that big.

Still ignoring defense. Having Howard on your team means that nobody will go inside on you, even if your other bigs are Ryan Anderson or Turkoglu or Rashard Lewis or whatever soft 4 you can throw out there. The gap really is that big.

Edit: As TSC said, Howard is one of the few players in the league that immediately makes any team a contender. If he was put on the Celtics current shitty, old-ass team, they would be right up there competing with the Heat.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 21 February 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[collings94]

Still ignoring defense. Having Howard on your team means that nobody will go inside on you, even if your other bigs are Ryan Anderson or Turkoglu or Rashard Lewis or whatever soft 4 you can throw out there. The gap really is that big.

Edit: As TSC said, Howard is one of the few players in the league that immediately makes any team a contender. If he was put on the Celtics current shitty, old-ass team, they would be right up there competing with the Heat.

Well, defense isn't the C's problem, it's putting the ball in the hole that stumps the C's, if you put Love on the celtics they would become top contenders as well. I'm not trying to say that Love is better then Howard, but if I was picking teams right now for a pickup game, and my opponent chose Howard and I chose Love, I wouldn't feel like the other team had a huge advantage. Both players make up for their deficiencies by being great in other areas.

[ivanvamp]

Still ignoring defense. Having Howard on your team means that nobody will go inside on you, even if your other bigs are Ryan Anderson or Turkoglu or Rashard Lewis or whatever soft 4 you can throw out there. The gap really is that big.

Edit: As TSC said, Howard is one of the few players in the league that immediately makes any team a contender. If he was put on the Celtics current shitty, old-ass team, they would be right up there competing with the Heat.

I just wonder if there is any conceivable way the Celtics could package whatever is necessary to get him from Orlando.

[BucketOBalls]

Ainge was pretty high on Durant and would have drafted him #1. Wyc confirmed that last year. Oden was the consensus #1.

I think he actually said this after the C lost the lottery(aftermatch of the RayRay trade), but it was something the effect of "they are both great players but we were a little higher on Kevin" or something like that.

Pretty sure there isn't a way the Celtics could trade for howard. They would probably have to give up Rondo. Honestly, I think the improvement from that would be less than we expect due to the C's lack of options(Avery Bradly, come on down!). Also, I can't see him signing an extension in that case. The Celtics don't have alot of assets to trade. Their best was the Clippers pick but they got screwed in that area this year.

The only way the Celtics have a (long)shot at getting him is if he reaches free agency. Orlando is in the playoff hunt enough that they might be tempted to hold on to him depending on what is offered.

Edited by BucketOBalls, 21 February 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Brickowski]

Back to Oden--- if this latest surgery is successful, I'd like to see the Celtics target him in the offseason. Huge risk, but also a high reward.

Edited by Brickowski, 24 February 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Marbleheader]

I think he actually said this after the C lost the lottery(aftermatch of the RayRay trade), but it was something the effect of "they are both great players but we were a little higher on Kevin" or something like that.

Wyc's quote, from 2011:

"I'll tell you, Danny was picking Durant," Grousbeck said.

http://www.weei.com/...urant-over-oden

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Wyc's quote, from 2011:



http://www.weei.com/...urant-over-oden

I've seen that Wyc quote, too. But there was a book written about the Celtics front office at that point, and the excerpts I've seen from that make it sound as if Ainge was much, much less certain that Wyc makes it sound. In fact, the book makes it sound like if the Celtics had landed the 1st pick, they may still have made the Garnett deal but they'd have attempted to substitute the pick for Al Jefferson.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Greg Oden has found his soulmate in "Glass Joel" Zumaya. And I was gonna pick Zumaya for the TJ Surgery contest this year, damn...I figured he'd at least make it to opening day.

[BS_SoxFan]

Oden to be waived by Portland:

http://espn.go.com/n...-pick-greg-oden

Gotta wonder if any team is going to take a chance on him. I'm sure someone will (maybe Phoenix and their training staff that seems to bring about miraculous cures), but gotta think this is just about it for him.

[Mystic Merlin]

His only remaining hope is the Phoenix Suns training staff.

[mandro ramtinez]

His only remaining hope is the Phoenix Suns training staff.

Or Kobe's German "doctor".

[TripleOT]

I love the revisionism from Portland fans. I don't remember hardly anyone placing Durant above Oden in that draft. Fromm what Oden showed in college, he was going to be a defensive oriented, paint dominating center who could score a bit too. He had great movement for a guy that big, and played way above the rim. If the Cs got the first pick that year and picked Durant, there would have been rioting in the streets.

Oden is repped by the same agency that has Rondo and JJJ. I wonder if that gives them some sway in bringing him in if he ever gets healthy enough to run up and down an NBA court without needing a Life Alert pendant around his neck.

[maufman]

I love the revisionism from Portland fans. I don't remember hardly anyone placing Durant above Oden in that draft. Fromm what Oden showed in college, he was going to be a defensive oriented, paint dominating center who could score a bit too. He had great movement for a guy that big, and played way above the rim. If the Cs got the first pick that year and picked Durant, there would have been rioting in the streets.

Oden is repped by the same agency that has Rondo and JJJ. I wonder if that gives them some sway in bringing him in if he ever gets healthy enough to run up and down an NBA court without needing a Life Alert pendant around his neck.

There was a considerable minority report that felt Durant should be the #1 pick. Oden was, ironically, the great physical specimen, and Durant was the great college player whose game might not translate to the pros. (Remember the fuss about how KD couldn't bench 225?) Iirc, Bill Simmons was the most prominent voice arguing that Durant should go #1 overall. At the time, I felt Oden was the safer pick, but was unlikely to be better than, say, Patrick Ewing, whereas KD might either be a once-in-a-generation talent or a total bust.

I probably would have taken Oden too, but it wasn't a no-brainer.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

There was a considerable minority report that felt Durant should be the #1 pick. Oden was, ironically, the great physical specimen, and Durant was the great college player whose game might not translate to the pros. (Remember the fuss about how KD couldn't bench 225?) Iirc, Bill Simmons was the most prominent voice arguing that Durant should go #1 overall. At the time, I felt Oden was the safer pick, but was unlikely to be better than, say, Patrick Ewing, whereas KD might either be a once-in-a-generation talent or a total bust.

I probably would have taken Oden too, but it wasn't a no-brainer.

Even Simmons publicly changed his stance on Durant going #1 after the championship game that year. He wrote a column about how Oden had earned the #1 spot, he just conveniently pretends he didn't now.

[Nick Kaufman]

i do vaguely remember people arguing in favor of Durant in this board at the time. And I remember it because I felt that Oden being a Center was the natural #1 choice.