186 replies to this topic

[Spacemans Bong]

Get off your high horse, you sound like an 18-year-old in his first ethics class.

It has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart or apathetic, the fact is this if Josh Hamilton wants a drink Josh Hamilton is going to get a drink. So you don't serve JH, guess what JH makes a stink goes to your manager and says, "I want a drink but that douche of a bartender won't give me one." Your boss comes over says, "Give him a drink or you're fired." He wants to save his job because maybe he has kids and a wife and a mortgage and bills (something that you know, only apathetic right-wingers have), needs this job and he doesn't want to deal with his boss who will scream bloody murder because you shut off one of the most popular athletes in Texas thus robbing him of a nice night's pay. You probably wouldn't give him a drink and that's fine, whatever, but guess what you're shitcanned and JH got his beer.

A bartender has two jobs:
1. Make sure that he provides adults with libations
2. Make sure that he doesn't give too much so that said person doesn't fuck himself up and sues either him or his place of employment

It's not to play Dr. Phil to every person who comes into his bar and wants a beer or two. Bars would be pretty lonely places if they only served beers to folks without problems.

But let's say everyone lives in Dr. Bonguer's Candyland where everything is sweet and nice and folks watch out for one another, guess what Josh Hamilton is going to get himself a drink. He just is. So whether you're the schmoe who gives it to him or not, is inconsequential. What it really boils down to is that you don't want to be the bad guy and you guise it in the warm wooliness of "treasure[ing] not trying to make the world a worse place." When really all you want to do is push the guy along and then cluck your tongue at the person who gives him what he wants.

Well done.

Well done Einstein, that is exactly what I want to do. I'm not a spineless coward, and I would rather throw down my towel and walk out of the bar than serve somebody who is communicating that they want to throw away their sobriety as obviously as Hamilton would in this situation (if he was ordering his drinks himself). I worked in a bar when I was trying to find a full-time job and I was struggling but I would have done that in a second because I respect myself too much to aid an addict relapsing.

Sorry but I have to participate in Josh Hamilton fucking up his life because he wants to and I should just serve him because he wants a drink?

Fuck that. FUCK that. And if you condone that you're a fucking asshole. I'm not putting an addict in that situation. If other people want to, fine, but just because other people would doesn't mean I would.

[mauidano]

Press conference about to start.

Live on MLB Network

[RingoOSU]

Why wouldn't he just grab a six pack and drink it at home? What stands out to me is that both known relapses have happened in public places, basically guaranteeing that he would get caught.

I'm convinced that 90% of the time, he does exactly this.

[Brianish]

He's narcassistic, just like all ballplayers. He likes the attention.

Or his personality is such that a fun night out is a more seductive experience and more likely to trigger a relapse than sitting at home.

Or he has had relapses at home, but they haven't been made public because, you know, he's at home.

The amount of judgmental bullcrap being thrown by both sides in this thread is unbelievable. It is, in fact, entirely possible that the bartender didn't know who Hamilton was. I know we're all sports fans here, so it seems impossible. But I don't follow football at all, and if Tom Brady walked into the room right now, I wouldn't recognize him. Even though I know who he is. And even if someone said to the bartender "Hey, that's Josh Hamilton, he's an outfielder for the Rangers," that's not the same thing as saying "Hey, that's Josh Hamilton, he's an alcoholic."

To all the people slinging shit at the bartender, there are a million reasons he might've served Hamilton that are perfectly understandable. Maybe he didn't know Hamilton was an alcoholic. Maybe he didn't know the beers were going to Hamilton. Maybe he doesn't see it as his place to make the call for anyone else.

For all the people slinging shit at Hamilton, it doesn't matter how much money the guy has. Nobody's asking you to feel sorry for the guy, but addiction can't be bought off. It's a personal trial, and I'd like to think I would accomplish half of what Hamilton has with that kind of challenge.

Yeah, there is personal responsibility, but both sides seem to be conveniently forgetting that it goes both ways. Hamilton was responsible for taking the drink, and the bartender was responsible for giving it to him. But, seeing as none of us have any real idea how it happened, everyone seems awfully comfortable assigning blame.

[Corsi]

Get off your high horse, you sound like an 18-year-old in his first ethics class.

It has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart or apathetic, the fact is this if Josh Hamilton wants a drink Josh Hamilton is going to get a drink. So you don't serve JH, guess what JH makes a stink goes to your manager and says, "I want a drink but that douche of a bartender won't give me one." Your boss comes over says, "Give him a drink or you're fired." He wants to save his job because maybe he has kids and a wife and a mortgage and bills (something that you know, only apathetic right-wingers have), needs this job and he doesn't want to deal with his boss who will scream bloody murder because you shut off one of the most popular athletes in Texas thus robbing him of a nice night's pay. You probably wouldn't give him a drink and that's fine, whatever, but guess what you're shitcanned and JH got his beer.

A bartender has two jobs:
1. Make sure that he provides adults with libations
2. Make sure that he doesn't give too much so that said person doesn't fuck himself up and sues either him or his place of employment

It's not to play Dr. Phil to every person who comes into his bar and wants a beer or two. Bars would be pretty lonely places if they only served beers to folks without problems.

But let's say everyone lives in Dr. Bonguer's Candyland where everything is sweet and nice and folks watch out for one another, guess what Josh Hamilton is going to get himself a drink. He just is. So whether you're the schmoe who gives it to him or not, is inconsequential. What it really boils down to is that you don't want to be the bad guy and you guise it in the warm wooliness of "treasure[ing] not trying to make the world a worse place." When really all you want to do is push the guy along and then cluck your tongue at the person who gives him what he wants.

Well done.

I don't agree with a single word of this.

My boss would scream bloody murder because I refused to serve a recovering alcoholic that he would otherwise make, what, $40 off of?

[mauidano]

I can appreciate how serious he "manned up" at the press conference. What can he say? That's a helluva albatross around his neck. Tough, tough situation. something must have happened at home to set him off. Best wishes guy, thoughts and prayers to anyone who suffers from this disease.

[Corsi]

I can appreciate how serious he "manned up" at the press conference. What can he say? That's a helluva albatross around his neck. Tough, tough situation. something must have happened at home to set him off. Best wishes guy, thoughts and prayers to anyone who suffers from this disease.

He insinuated something happened with a family member prior to drinking.

[Lose Remerswaal]

What does this say about the future of his life once he retires and is away from anyone who can be there as his "accountability partner"? Amazes me that his wife even lets him out of the house.

It's his wife's fault that he did this, since her dad refused the job.

Meanwhile, if he or his agent has half a brain, he can easily use the $100 million + he made during his career to continue to keep an "accountability partner" with him to make sure he doesn't screw up. Again.

[kenneycb]

Well done Einstein, that is exactly what I want to do. I'm not a spineless coward, and I would rather throw down my towel and walk out of the bar than serve somebody who is communicating that they want to throw away their sobriety as obviously as Hamilton would in this situation (if he was ordering his drinks himself). I worked in a bar when I was trying to find a full-time job and I was struggling but I would have done that in a second because I respect myself too much to aid an addict relapsing.

Sorry but I have to participate in Josh Hamilton fucking up his life because he wants to and I should just serve him because he wants a drink?

Fuck that. FUCK that. And if you condone that you're a fucking asshole. I'm not putting an addict in that situation. If other people want to, fine, but just because other people would doesn't mean I would.

That's nice and all but, judging by the amount of alcoholics in the world, I'm sure you served plenty of people who you didn't know were alcoholics. A lot of baseless presumptions being made by all sides in here.

Edited by kenneycb, 03 February 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

It seems like the press conference may have been his idea, or at the very least, something he's fully on board with. Making mention of the fact that slipping is part of recovery and that falling off the wagon isn't the end of the world... that you can get back up get back to being sober suggests he wants to be an example to other addicts that people mess up, but it's possible to get past that.

I was originally a little off put by the fact that they were making this big a deal about it, but the way he's treating this makes me think he wants to be up there right now.

[mauidano]

Guess he'll be re-upping with the Ranger's after all. They have really stood by him.

[DLew On Roids]

Speaking of wives and accountability partners, aren't they supposed to be the same thing?

[Orel Miraculous]

That's nice and all but, judging by the amount of alcoholics in the world, I'm sure you served plenty of people who you didn't know were alcoholics. A lot of baseless presumptions being made by all sides in here.

Of course there are a ton of alcoholics. No one's making the argument that bartenders are supposed to intuitively know who is a drug addict. The point is that they DID know they were serving a drug addict. There's no way around that. Its possible that the bartender didn't recognize him right away and served him the first beer. But it really is inconceivable that the entire bar didn't figure out who he was after about 5 minutes.

Edited by Orel Miraculous, 03 February 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Corsi]

That's nice and all but, judging by the amount of alcoholics in the world, I'm sure you served plenty of people who you didn't know were alcoholics. A lot of baseless presumptions being made by all sides in here.

This is certainly true, but I don't think it excuses serving a guy that you know is an alcoholic.

Also, I think a distinction needs to be made between alcoholics that are actively trying to become sober and those that aren't. Hamilton falls into the former category and I don't think anyone would be making the wrong move by refusing to serve him on grounds that it'd be ruining a life that he's actively trying to fix.

[mauidano]

Speaking of wives and accountability partners, aren't they supposed to be the same thing?

Exactly. Any solid relationship your partner is your "accountability" partner.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Well done Einstein, that is exactly what I want to do. I'm not a spineless coward, and I would rather throw down my towel and walk out of the bar than serve somebody who is communicating that they want to throw away their sobriety as obviously as Hamilton would in this situation (if he was ordering his drinks himself). I worked in a bar when I was trying to find a full-time job and I was struggling but I would have done that in a second because I respect myself too much to aid an addict relapsing.

Sorry but I have to participate in Josh Hamilton fucking up his life because he wants to and I should just serve him because he wants a drink?

Fuck that. FUCK that. And if you condone that you're a fucking asshole. I'm not putting an addict in that situation. If other people want to, fine, but just because other people would doesn't mean I would.

You're going to be absolutely precious when you go into the real world. And make sure you bring some glasses, Opie, because the world isn't black and white.

My boss would scream bloody murder because I refused to serve a recovering alcoholic that he would otherwise make, what, $40 off of?

Honest question, have you ever worked in the restaurant/bar industry? Because yeah, that would happen.

I'm not a spineless coward, and I would rather throw down my towel and walk out of the bar than serve somebody who is communicating that they want to throw away their sobriety as obviously as Hamilton would in this situation (if he was ordering his drinks himself).

You are being a spineless coward and you're doing it in the most contemptible way. So you don't serve Hamilton, what now? He's going to go out and find more booze or drugs or whatever. The problem is still there only you took yourself out of the equation. If JH is to be helped, why aren't you going to do anything to help him? You're only compounding the problem by letting it move down the line to another person to try and figure out.

Real brave.

[RingoOSU]

I thought his accountabilty partner was Jesus.

[Average Reds]

Of course there are a ton of alcoholics. No one's making the argument that bartenders are supposed to intuitively know who is a drug addict. The point is that they DID know they were serving a drug addict. There's no way around that. Its possible that the bartender didn't recognize him right away and served him the first beer. But it really is inconceivable that the entire bar didn't figure out who he was after about 5 minutes.

Utter, complete nonsense.

There are a lot of people in this world who don;t follow sports. Lots. I would be willing to bet that the majority of people in the DFW area would not be able to recognize who Hamilton was if he walked into a bar. And if he was recognized and the bartender was notified, you;re making another leap to assume that he would say to himself "Oh, isn't he the alcoholic?" Because even if the name was familiar, I'd bet only a small minority of people would connect him to his past troubles.

SoSH is not the real world in terms of what we know about MLB players. And Dallas isn't Boston. The Texas Rangers aren't an all-consuming passion, and the assumptions that you have heaped on top of other assumptions have no basis in fact.

Edit: And I'm not meaning to pick on Orel alone. Plenty of people are assuming that Hamilton was served by an individual who knew who he was and what his past history was, and unless you have evidence of this I'd say you are all sadly mistaken.

Edited by Average Reds, 03 February 2012 - 02:21 PM.

[Toe Nash]

Well done Einstein, that is exactly what I want to do. I'm not a spineless coward, and I would rather throw down my towel and walk out of the bar than serve somebody who is communicating that they want to throw away their sobriety as obviously as Hamilton would in this situation (if he was ordering his drinks himself). I worked in a bar when I was trying to find a full-time job and I was struggling but I would have done that in a second because I respect myself too much to aid an addict relapsing.

You probably served plenty of addicts then. They just weren't as well-known as Hamilton.

If you have a problem with selling a drug you shouldn't be a drug dealer.

[Bunt4aTriple]

I've been a bartender and you can absolutely refuse to serve anybody you damn well desire. You may not always be backed up by your manager, but if your manager is telling you it's in your and the bar's best interest to serve an alcoholic DFW icon or a pregnant woman, then it's time to quit. It's service, not servitude.

I misspoke. You can refuse service, but your boss might not like it. I tended bar at a VFW in college, and, while they'd never explicitly say it, cutting anyone off was like calling holding in the NFL. It could happen for just about any customer, but most of the time, we were to look the other way. And when a pregnant woman comes up to the counter, that's her choice, not mine. Half of the clientele were alcoholics. I also knew for sure that some of the members were gambling away mortgage payments on 50 cent pull tab tickets, too, but I couldn't refuse them either.

Wow, this sounds depressing. It was actually a pretty fun gig.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Honest question, have you ever worked in the restaurant/bar industry? Because yeah, that would happen.

Depends on the restaurant or bar. I've worked in restaurants where my boss would tell me to shut the fuck up and serve him, and I've worked in restaurants where my boss would back up a refusal and the manager would be willing to let him walk out rather than serve him. It's not like there isn't an opportunity for some good PR if he gets angry about and makes a scene. Chances are, the worst that's gonna happen is the customer is going to get upset and leave and the place will lose 50 bucks of business.

Some managers would see that as unacceptable, others wouldn't.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This is certainly true, but I don't think it excuses serving a guy that you know is an alcoholic

So let me get this straight, if he's a famous alcoholic a bartender can't serve them any booze. But if it's an alcoholic who isn't famous, it's ok?

I know that you and Bonguer are directly plugged into the Google universal mind at all times, but what about the poor slobs who aren't up on the who's who of functioning alcoholics?

Honest question: what if a renowned drunkard, who hasn't publicly gone to rehab, walked into your bar and asked for a drink. Someone like Russell Crowe. Would you serve him? He seems like a complete booze bag and the only difference is that he hasn't done a stint at Betty Ford or Promises. Do you refuse to serve him?

[Orel Miraculous]

So let me get this straight, if he's a famous alcoholic a bartender can't serve them any booze. But if it's an alcoholic who isn't famous, it's ok?

Fame has nothing to do with it. What matters is whether you know that its an alcoholic. Whether you know that because he's famous or you know that because he's your uncle, it doesn't change the equation.

Honest question: what if a renowned drunkard, who hasn't publicly gone to rehab, walked into your bar and asked for a drink. Someone like Russell Crowe. Would you serve him? He seems like a complete booze bag and the only difference is that he hasn't done a stint at Betty Ford or Promises. Do you refuse to serve him?

Talk about a straw man. Russell Crowe is a guy who likes to get drunk. Josh Hamilton is a recovering drug addict who's addiction almost killed him. When Russel Crowe gets to that level then this will become a valid comparison.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Talk about a straw man. Russell Crowe is a guy who likes to get drunk. Josh Hamilton is a recovering drug addict who's addiction almost killed him. When Russel Crowe gets to that level then this will become a valid comparison.

Please tell me how you know this about Russell Crowe. I'm sure that there is a terrific story that you need to share with us.

Fame has nothing to do with it. What matters is whether you know that its an alcoholic. Whether you know that because he's famous or you know that because he's your uncle, it doesn't change the equation.

Fame has everything to do with this and you know it. The crux of most of the bartender is to blamers in this thread is that "the bartender DEFINITELY knows who Hamilton is" and the subsequent "the bartender DEFINITELY knows JH's story". Like many people defending the bartender, I have no idea if this is even remotely true and neither do you.

[SumnerH]

Of course there are a ton of alcoholics. No one's making the argument that bartenders are supposed to intuitively know who is a drug addict. The point is that they DID know they were serving a drug addict. There's no way around that. Its possible that the bartender didn't recognize him right away and served him the first beer. But it really is inconceivable that the entire bar didn't figure out who he was after about 5 minutes.

It's perfectly conceivable. I've worked a bar that Mike Tyson was in, and nobody knew he was there until he paid his tab and threw 100 dollar bills at the servers. This was pre-tattoo, but he was still 100 times as recognizable as Josh Hamilton.

[SaveBooFerriss]

I thought his accountabilty partner was Jesus.

Jesus loves to drink. He even makes his own wine.

[BucketOBalls]

Fame has nothing to do with it. What matters is whether you know that its an alcoholic. Whether you know that because he's famous or you know that because he's your uncle, it doesn't change the equation.

How do we know the bartender knows? Even if he does, alcoholics have been known to recover and then just drink like normal people. The bartender could ask if he was sure, but I don't how there is all that much one could do to refuse the guy a drink if he insisted.

[rembrat]

I agree with JMOH and it's not because I not so secretly hate Hamilton like a lot of posters here (was it the Jesus thing?) but because Hamilton is a grown man with money and if he wants to legally purchase something he should have that right.

Edited by rembrat, 03 February 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[gammoseditor]

It's his wife's fault that he did this, since her dad refused the job.

Meanwhile, if he or his agent has half a brain, he can easily use the $100 million + he made during his career to continue to keep an "accountability partner" with him to make sure he doesn't screw up. Again.

FWIW, he's only made a little under $20 million at this point in his career, and that's including a signing bonus of around $4 that he got 12 years ago. He may not have as much money lying around as some people are assuming.

[Judge Mental13]

Blaming the bartender? Seriously? The fucking bartender?

That might be the most idiotic shit I've ever read. Josh Hamilton made millions of fucking dollars last year and it's a fucking Dallas-area bartender's job to make sure he doesn't fall back into a bag of heroin when he decides to go out IN PUBLIC and order some drinks. Shut the fuck up. If Josh Hamilton wants to get sober he can hire somebody to follow him around and help him. If he wants to go make a fucking spectacle out of himself it's not the responsibility of every bartender in the entire fucking DFW area to be his fucking baby sitter. Think about what it is you're saying here. My god what an obscene level of ignorance.

Edited by Judge Mental13, 03 February 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Corsi]

Honest question, have you ever worked in the restaurant/bar industry? Because yeah, that would happen.

I know it's not completely analogous, but I worked at a liquor store for two summers (over by Stonehill College), and was given the latitude by my boss to refuse to sell to anyone, for whatever reason. There were multiple times I turned away one guy who would be sloppy drunk and waiting by the front door before I even opened the place on Saturday mornings.

I have a conscience and just didn't want to sell to the guy. But I know I'm not living in the real world.

edit: And for the record, I'm not blaming the bartender one bit. But I also wouldn't look down upon a bartender who refused to serve the guy. It takes balls and it's the right thing to do.

Edited by Corsi, 03 February 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[WayBackVazquez]

A bartender has two jobs:
1. Make sure that he provides adults with libations
2. Make sure that he doesn't give too much so that said person doesn't fuck himself up and sues either him or his place of employment

By what authority do you make this pronouncement? The law in many states says otherwise.

Florida
Hawaii
California
Kentucky

There are plenty more. Look, the great majority of time we are strangers to each other. Most of the time you won't know whether somebody is an alcoholic or has had 10 DUIs. But on a very rare occasion, you will. I find it odd that you think it's too much to ask to deny service in those rare instances.

JMOH Edit: dude, I fucked up your post. Sorry about that. I mistakenly edited out the legalese of the states that you named. I honestly didn't do it intentionally. Sorry about that.

[Judge Mental13]

I know it's not completely analogous, but I worked at a liquor store for two summers (over by Stonehill College), and was given the latitude by my boss to refuse to sell to anyone, for whatever reason. There was a multiple times I turned away one guy who would be sloppy drunk and waiting by the front door before I even opened the place on Saturday mornings.

I have a conscience and just didn't want to sell to the guy. But I know I'm not living in the real world.

Haha yeah Corsi, you're a real hero. If only every bartender in Texas lived by your superior moral code!

[Orel Miraculous]

Blaming the bartender? Seriously? The fucking bartender?

That might be the most idiotic shit I've ever read. Josh Hamilton made millions of fucking dollars last year and it's a fucking Dallas-area bartender's job to make sure he doesn't fall back into a bag of heroin when he decides to go out IN PUBLIC and order some drinks. Shut the fuck up. If Josh Hamilton wants to get sober he can hire somebody to follow him around and help him. If he wants to go make a fucking spectacle out of himself it's not the responsibility of every bartender in the entire fucking DFW area to be his fucking baby sitter. Think about what it is you're saying here. My god what an obscene level of ignorance.

If you think its an obscene level of ignorance, its because you're willfully ignoring and misrepresenting the point.

NOBODY here thinks that its the bartender's responsibility to prevent Josh Hamilton from relapsing. That responsibility lies solely with Josh Hamilton.

To the extent that anyone here is blaming the bartender, they are only saying that if he knew it was Josh Hamilton (and while you can argue that they may not have known right away, you cannot plausibly argue that the whole bar didn't know it shortly thereafter, and the fact that Hamilton said that people were taking pictures with him pretty much proves this) then a bartender should not in good conscience serve him a beer. That's it. The bartender doesn't have to call his wife, doesn't have to personally take him home, doesn't have to take him to AA. All he has to do is not serve him a drink.

That's not a lot to ask and your commitment to your job should never take precedence over a commitment to not willfully aid in the destruction of another human being.

Edited by Orel Miraculous, 03 February 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[WayBackVazquez]

By what authority do you make this pronouncement? The law in many states says otherwise.

Florida:


Hawaii:


California:




Kentucky:



There are plenty more. Look, the great majority of time we are strangers to each other. Most of the time you won't know whether somebody is an alcoholic or has had 10 DUIs. But on a very rare occasion, you will. I find it odd that you think it's too much to ask to deny service in those rare instances.

EDIT: And I'm not blaming the bartender. I have no idea whether whoever served him knew who he was or knew of his problem. But if he/she did, I don't have a lot of respect for his/her decision. The responsibility is on Josh, but I disagree with a decision to serve him if you know.

[Corsi]

Haha yeah Corsi, you're a real hero. If only every bartender in Texas lived by your superior moral code!

If only. You're right.

[snowmanny]

I'm not disputing the fact that he's an addict. I'm sure addiction is a very hard thing to kick, that doesn't even need to be said. All I am saying is that I don't think it's a disease. He has clearly been given some incredible gifts in life, but to feel sympathy for someone who continues to throw it all away by doing the same self destructive actions doesn't make me feel bad for him.

Well of course that's not "all (you're) saying.". You made fun of him for depending on an "accountability partner.". In fact, kicking addictions is incredibly difficult even for very motivated people and yes that needs to be said because you were dismissive of that fact in your earlier posts. Perhaps you have never seen someone try to kick an addiction, even cigarettes. That's how you come across.


Anyway, if I had a company whose performance depended on a particular employee who was paid millions and millions of dollars, and said employee had a severe addiction problem, I would strongly consider utilizing every available resource in order to increase the odds of keeping him clean.


Edit:sp

Edited by snowmanny, 03 February 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

A bartender has two jobs:
1. Make sure that he provides adults with libations
2. Make sure that he doesn't give too much so that said person doesn't fuck himself up and sues either him or his place of employment

By what authority do you make this pronouncement? The law in many states says otherwise.

Florida
Hawaii
California
Kentucky

There are plenty more. Look, the great majority of time we are strangers to each other. Most of the time you won't know whether somebody is an alcoholic or has had 10 DUIs. But on a very rare occasion, you will. I find it odd that you think it's too much to ask to deny service in those rare instances.

Those places are all fine and dandy, but JH didn't drink in Hawai'i, California, Florida or Kentucky. He drank in Texas and I'd be shocked if there was a law like that. And that presumes that the bartender in question knew who JH was. I wonder how many bartenders have been busted and served time (most likely faced a fine) for breaking those laws. To me, these statutes are pretty worthless.

[Rough Carrigan]

I wonder how much the Rangers wanted him to do this press conference.

One can imagine a scenario where the Rangers know that he has occasionally slipped and had a drink or two with no particular repercussions but that they are a little worried. So, they push for all this to become very very public this time and get a twofer. They hit Hamilton and push him back in line and they weaken his bargaining position for his new contract. Other teams will be a little hesitant to go after the guy who might throw it all away.

[Lose Remerswaal]

FWIW, he's only made a little under $20 million at this point in his career, and that's including a signing bonus of around $4 that he got 12 years ago. He may not have as much money lying around as some people are assuming.

True. Actually around $14 million so far, with another $13 million coming in 2012.

Still enough to hire someone to keep him sober, if that's his choice.

[Judge Mental13]

To the extent that anyone here is blaming the bartender, they are only saying that if he knew it was Josh Hamilton (and while you can argue that they may not have known right away, you cannot plausibly argue that the whole bar didn't know it shortly thereafter, and the fact that Hamilton said that people were taking pictures with him pretty much proves this) then a bartender should not in good conscience serve him a beer. That's it. The bartender doesn't have to call his wife, doesn't have to personally take him home, doesn't have to take him to AA. All he has to do is not serve him a drink.

That's not a lot to ask and your commitment to your job should never take precedence over a commitment to not willfully aid in the destruction of another human being.

You think the bartender served Hamilton because he/she was SO committed to their job? Really?

Most bartenders don't give a fuck about their job. Being a bartender kinda sucks. There are fun parts of it, but it's mostly a dead-end job where you have to rely on the tips of strangers and regular strangers to pay your bills and keep a roof over your head. If I'm working a bar and Josh Hamilton decides to come in and put me in the awkward shitty position of having to decide for him that he's making a mistake when he could have gotten his alcohol fix any number of different ways that wouldn't compromise my moral compass, let alone the fucking way I'm making my living then fuck Josh Hamilton and fuck anybody who blames me for "aiding in the destruction of Josh Hamilton's life"

Fuck Josh Hamilton's life..... the fuck do I care? The bartender has a life too, and he probably doesn't get dozens of chances to get it back on track when he fucks up either because he's a bartender not a professional fucking athlete. God the level of jock-sniffing in this thread is off the charts.

[FL4WL3SS]

Or his personality is such that a fun night out is a more seductive experience and more likely to trigger a relapse than sitting at home.

Or he has had relapses at home, but they haven't been made public because, you know, he's at home.

The amount of judgmental bullcrap being thrown by both sides in this thread is unbelievable. It is, in fact, entirely possible that the bartender didn't know who Hamilton was. I know we're all sports fans here, so it seems impossible. But I don't follow football at all, and if Tom Brady walked into the room right now, I wouldn't recognize him. Even though I know who he is. And even if someone said to the bartender "Hey, that's Josh Hamilton, he's an outfielder for the Rangers," that's not the same thing as saying "Hey, that's Josh Hamilton, he's an alcoholic."

To all the people slinging shit at the bartender, there are a million reasons he might've served Hamilton that are perfectly understandable. Maybe he didn't know Hamilton was an alcoholic. Maybe he didn't know the beers were going to Hamilton. Maybe he doesn't see it as his place to make the call for anyone else.

For all the people slinging shit at Hamilton, it doesn't matter how much money the guy has. Nobody's asking you to feel sorry for the guy, but addiction can't be bought off. It's a personal trial, and I'd like to think I would accomplish half of what Hamilton has with that kind of challenge.

Yeah, there is personal responsibility, but both sides seem to be conveniently forgetting that it goes both ways. Hamilton was responsible for taking the drink, and the bartender was responsible for giving it to him. But, seeing as none of us have any real idea how it happened, everyone seems awfully comfortable assigning blame.

Not sure what this had to do with my post, but ok buddy.

It was obviously a cry for attention - don't apply meaning to my statement that wasn't there.

[rembrat]

I wonder how much the Rangers wanted him to do this press conference.

One can imagine a scenario where the Rangers know that he has occasionally slipped and had a drink or two with no particular repercussions but that they are a little worried. So, they push for all this to become very very public this time and get a twofer. They hit Hamilton and push him back in line and they weaken his bargaining position for his new contract. Other teams will be a little hesitant to go after the guy who might throw it all away.

Uhh. Ron Washington was swimming in coke in 2009 and since then the Rangers have issued him 2 2year extensions. And any long term contract Josh Hamilton signs will probably have special wording that protects the team in case of a James Brown meltdown.

[E5 Yaz]

Exactly. Any solid relationship your partner is your "accountability" partner.

This is not necessarily so. You can have a strong marriage, but have an accountability partner (or sponsor in AA) that is someone else. The added stress of sharing all that goes with addiction with your spouse is not always the wisest course of action

[Brianish]

It was obviously a cry for attention

And you don't know what a post about being too quick to pass judgment has to do with you?

3/4 of my post was pretty obviously addressing the conversation as a whole.

[Tony the Pony]

Holy shit does this thread make me thirsty. Clery's in 30 minutes!

[brs3]

I hope Hamilton gets the help he seems to have openly asked for by going into a bar. There's no way a bartender doesn't serve him. Even if a SoSHer worked at the bar, they're not going to refuse to serve him. Imagine a bartender saying to their boss 'Man, this guy has a drinking problem!'. My guess is the boss would laugh in the bartender's face and tell him to look around at any of the other patrons who could possibly be alcoholics. Bartenders wouldn't say or do these things, because they're bartenders, and you're paid for serving customers.

Bartenders jobs, besides serving drinks, is to protect the bar from patrons drinking too much, legally(as mentioned above). Realistically, it's to prevent brawls and sending a guy out to his car stumbling drunk, because both will impact the bar revenue and the bartenders job potentially. They have no obligation whatsoever to make sure someone adheres to a court order to not drink, or a moral promise they made, or anything else. It's a bar, where the person entering has made that decision with a push on the door. Every step they make towards the bar is a decision. The request for a beer is a decision. Anyone who thinks a bartender sayin 'no' to that guy will have a positive impact on him deciding not to drink that day is sorely mistaken. If a bartender wants to make a statement, they could be really freaking slow with the service, but then he might leave, and then they lose the crowd that might be growing with someone famous there. Then the bar manager and other bartenders are pissed because an otherwise slow Monday night just scrammed and nobody's making money.

Believing someone's wife/partner should be the expected support in this instance is unbelievable. Does that happen? Sure, it does. Is it an absolute must? Hell no, and suggesting otherwise misses understanding the beast of substance abuse entirely.

[Billy Jo Robidoux]

I would feel uneasy about serving JH a drink.

But I would thoroughly enjoy offering a pinch of Skoal to Curt Schilling.

[mt8thsw9th]

Good for him.

[Rough Carrigan]

Uhh. Ron Washington was swimming in coke in 2009 and since then the Rangers have issued him 2 2year extensions. And any long term contract Josh Hamilton signs will probably have special wording that protects the team in case of a James Brown meltdown.

Not sure what Ron Washington has to do with getting contract leverage over Hamilton. But, are the only possible results a binary set of circumstances? Fine and dandy or lying in the gutter? Even if you believe that, do you think every MLB team that might be interested believes that? He's a risk. And by that risk being highlighted, the market for his services in MLB is diminished.