74 replies to this topic

[Sprowl]

Took my mom out to dinner for her birthday, what did I miss?

Indigestion.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

Eh, whatever. It was still a very, very good week for this team

[BigSoxFan]

Big 3 really choked down the stretch.

[stp130]

TURRIBLE.

[ifmanis5]

Mostly everyone here has already been dead wrong about Bradley. He is having himself another strong game.

If by strong you mean 28 min 2-5 FG, 0-0 3PT, 2-2 FT, 1 REB, 2 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TO 6 PTS -4 then yeah, save a place for him in Springfield.

[BucketOBalls]

We shouldn't worry about the bench. They have plenty of bench players. They need better starters.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I saw Avery Bradley dribble the ball over his head walking it up the court with nobody near him. How am I wrong in saying he doesn't have the fundamental fucking skill of dribbling the basketball?

[Curtis Pride]

I think this is a game where JO would have been a big help. He might have grabbed a few more rebounds and provided better team defense. Or having Rondo would have cut down on the turnovers. Pierce had 7 TO's. While he plays a respectable point forward, he is more susceptible to steals and turnovers, and I think having better ball control would have cut down fast breaks for the Cavs.

[Riles335]

If by strong you mean 28 min 2-5 FG, 0-0 3PT, 2-2 FT, 1 REB, 2 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TO 6 PTS -4 then yeah, save a place for him in Springfield.

Just curious if you watched the game?

[Sprowl]

Just curious if you watched the game?

Oh for goodness sake, you were pleading to have Bradley put back in so that he could stop Irving from going on a roll, and then Irving led his team on a 12-0 roll, and scored the winning basket by driving -- past Bradley.

Bradley shows some athletic gifts and a willingness to get in the opposing guard's face on defense. Just be grateful that he shows some promise -- don't try to gild the lily.

[Turrable]

TURRIBLE.

agreed

[Riles335]

Oh for goodness sake, you were pleading to have Bradley put back in so that he could stop Irving from going on a roll, and then Irving led his team on a 12-0 roll, and scored the winning basket by driving -- past Bradley.

Bradley shows some athletic gifts and a willingness to get in the opposing guard's face on defense. Just be grateful that he shows some promise -- don't try to gild the lily.

I'm not trying to gild the lily here. I understand that Irving made a great play on the final basket but that final basket was on Brandon Bass. I am not trying to defend Bradley there as he was a tad bit late getting back into the play but Bass got wrecked all of tonight on the pick and role. Anderson V of all people was making him look bad on the pick and role. On that final play it was Bass who got beat by Irving on the spin move through the lane with Bradley coming back to help.

Getting back to my point though, I wasn't trying to make him look bad. I was just curious as to if he watched the game. Irving did a great majority of damage tonight against Moore which included the run at the end. Irving entered the 4th quarter with 6 minutes to go with Moore in the game and went on to score 6 of the 8 Cavalier points in a 2 minute and 10 second stretch on 2 - 2 from the field and 2 - 2 from the line. Bradley checked in at the 3:42 mark in which on the first possession after the timeout, caused an Irving turnover (Ray Allen steal) and held Irving scoreless till the final possession of the game. Bradley was held out till the 3:42 mark because of a rolled ankle.

This was the theme over the course of the game. When Bradley was in the game, a great majority of the offense was ran through Jamison and others with Irving having a tough time getting involved. When Moore checked into the ball game tonight, Irving did the majority of his scoring. I am not trying to make a case for Bradley, it is just what in fact happened.

I wasn't trying to rub anything his way about watching the game but there was a clear connection between Bradley being in and out of the game and Irving's production. The fourth quarter made it quiet obvious in that when Bradley was held out for 9 minutes because of the rolled ankle, the Cavs were able to come all the way back from 8 deficit entering the fourth quarter in which they went on a 26-17 run.

[ifmanis5]

Just curious if you watched the game?

I did and Kyre drank his milkshake. Are you his agent by any chance?
Not to be a dick here but Bradley's VORP would be in the negative. If Danny offered him to another team (assuming he hasn't already) what do you think he could get back for him?

[fairlee76]

Just curious if you watched the game?

I went to the game. Bradley has to make a few stops on Irving. That is his only NBA-level skill. No way in hell Pierce should have to assume such a heavy share of offensive facilitation duties.

[Riles335]

I did and Kyre drank his milkshake. Are you his agent by any chance?
Not to be a dick here but Bradley's VORP would be in the negative. If Danny offered him to another team (assuming he hasn't already) what do you think he could get back for him?

I understand that Bradley's statistics would suggest that he is a below average player. I don't necessarily disagree with that right now but with considerable minutes he has shown strides and improvement towards being a good role player. It is incredibly hard for any player to see five minutes here and there over the course of their first season and expect to bring much, especially a 20 year old point guard who should still be in school. I am not calling for him to be the starting point guard but he has definitely been a strong factor in the Celtics playing very good team defense.

I don't think Danny would get back much but I think a lot of teams would be interested in dealing for him because he is 21 year old point guard who should be entering his junior year in college. Remember Moore is almost two years older than Bradley. I would never bet the house on Bradley becoming a top 15 point guard in this league but he does have a long future in this league because of his defense and athleticism. I don't think there is much wrong with that. Also, it is okay to express enthusiasm for a young point guard instead of dwelling on the negatives...or else we all would be repeating one another. There are things that Bradley has to work on, no doubt, but there are also things to really like about him. Time will tell.

[ifmanis5]

I understand that Bradley's statistics would suggest that he is a below average player. I don't necessarily disagree with that right now but with considerable minutes he has shown strides and improvement towards being a good role player. It is incredibly hard for any player to see five minutes here and there over the course of their first season and expect to bring much, especially a 20 year old point guard who should still be in school. I am not calling for him to be the starting point guard but he has definitely been a strong factor in the Celtics playing very good team defense.

I don't think Danny would get back much but I think a lot of teams would be interested in dealing for him because he is 21 year old point guard who should be entering his junior year in college. Remember Moore is almost two years older than Bradley. I would never bet the house on Bradley becoming a top 15 point guard in this league but he does have a long future in this league because of his defense and athleticism. I don't think there is much wrong with that. Also, it is okay to express enthusiasm for a young point guard instead of dwelling on the negatives...or else we all would be repeating one another. There are things that Bradley has to work on, no doubt, but there are also things to really like about him. Time will tell.

Kyre is younger than Avery and we saw how that went.
Bradley's chief selling point is his defense, yet he's never shut anybody of note down and his career high for steals in a game is 3. Rondo's high is 8, btw.
The reality is that Danny would only get a 2nd round pick or a crappy contract back for him. Which is fair since Avery will most likely wind up in the D-League or overseas in 5 years.
Moore actually has a few tangible offensive skills and has earned more playing time than AB has been getting w/Rondo sidelined.

[Riles335]

Kyre is younger than Avery and we saw how that went.
Bradley's chief selling point is his defense, yet he's never shut anybody of note down and his career high for steals in a game is 3. Rondo's high is 8, btw.
The reality is that Danny would only get a 2nd round pick or a crappy contract back for him. Which is fair since Avery will most likely wind up in the D-League or overseas in 5 years.
Moore actually has a few tangible offensive skills and has earned more playing time than AB has been getting w/Rondo sidelined.

I disagree with all of this so we are going to have to agree to disagree. Among all of this, I think steals has to be the worst indicator for defense. Lets just agree to disagree.

Edited by Riles335, 29 January 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Point guard...right.

[Koufax]

If Danny could get a second round pick for Avery, he should pull the trigger on that right away. Unfortunately he can't get that much.

[fairlee76]

I disagree with all of this so we are going to have to agree to disagree. Among all of this, I think steals has to be the worst indicator for defense. Lets just agree to disagree.

Not trying to be a dick here, but who has Bradley shut down besides Nelson? And do you believe that DA could get anything better than a 2nd round pick back for him? I don't see what others see in him. Two good defensive games against Jameer Nelson don't make him an elite defender. Irving torched him last night.

[Riles335]

Not trying to be a dick here, but who has Bradley shut down besides Nelson? And do you believe that DA could get anything better than a 2nd round pick back for him? I don't see what others see in him. Two good defensive games against Jameer Nelson don't make him an elite defender. Irving torched him last night.

I don't get this hate towards Jameer Nelson not being a quality point guard. One he is an All-Star. Secondly he has averaged well over 5 assists per game (including 6 assists per game last year) over the past 5 years. Nelson possesses an almost career assist to turnover ratio of 2.5/1 which would put him in the same category as a lot of other top point guards in the league. The fact that you would like to discount those efforts are ridiculous.

Getting back to other point guards that Bradley has turned down would be Darren Collison. In 32 minutes against the Pacers, Bradley shut down Collison to the tune of 3-10 shooting, 0-3 3 point shooting, with 4 assists to 2 turnovers over the 40 total minutes that Collison played. For a player shooting almost 42.4 percent from the field and 42.4 from the arc, Bradley did a damn good job. Bradley also did a very strong job on Steve Nash in the Phoenix game. Limiting Nash to 8 points despite Nash entering the contest with three previous scoring outputs of 20, 25, and 26 points respectively. Nash also went on to turn the ball over 4 times. In all it was an incredibly tame game from Nash despite being one of the best offensive point guards in the league.

So you look at the body of work that Bradley has put in against Nelson (twice), Collison, Nash, and Wall and he did some very solid work against very good point guards. He shut down Nelson and Collison and limited the effect that Nash had in the Phoenix game. He also caused Wall to commit 5 turnovers in a game where Wall did have a very good game on 9 of 18 shooting.

To last nights game, I am not saying that Bradley had a great defensive game last night but he did limit the scoring opportunities for Irving because Irving only shot the ball 7 times through 3 quarters on Bradley. To Irving's credit, he did in fact make the most of those opportunities. It really wasn't until did Irving go off in which he scored 6 straight points in a span of three minutes with Moore on the floor because Bradley was out of the game until the three minute mark with a sprained ankle. In the last three minutes, Bradley once again limited Irving to only one shot, it was in fact the game winner, but Bradley in 27 minutes of work, limited Irving to 8 total shots (Irving and Bradley were almost simultaneously on the floor the entire game up until that rolled ankle heading into the fourth quarter) . That is a pretty strong job seeing that Moore relinquished 6 straight points in a three minute span in the fourth quarter when Irving checked back into the game around the 7 minute mark. Irving attempted a shot per minute when Moore was on the floor and averaged a shot almost every three minutes with Bradley on the floor. Irving did in fact had a strong shooting night percentage wise but it was a job well done by Bradley to limit Irving to only 8 shot opportunities over the course of 27 minutes when Irving has attempted on average 13.3 in those same minutes this season.

[Koufax]

You make good points about Bradley's defense, and I am willing to concede that it is very good. But his is so awful on offense that it makes no difference. The point guard is arguably the most important offensive position, and he is a black hole there. He belongs in the D league right now.

[Brickowski]

Bradley may turn out to be a bust or a good player. Too early to tell. But he isn't the reason they lost the game. They lost the game because Pierce tried to do too much and turned the ball over, and bricked shots, especially after the refs refused to give him a foul call. Ray missed a layup. Varejao got rebounds and loose balls that he had no business getting with KG on the floor.

Don't scapegoat one player. As I said in another post, the progress of young players is up and down. Bradley did not play well-- and he'll play poorly again. But part of the problem is that Pierce treated him like Jiri Welsch and tried to dribble through two guys and refused to give up the ball while Bradley was alone in the corner. Maybe Pierce was right and Bradley would have bricked the shots. But that's not the right way to play the game.

Edited by Brickowski, 30 January 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I'm not trying to gild the lily here. I understand that Irving made a great play on the final basket but that final basket was on Brandon Bass. I am not trying to defend Bradley there as he was a tad bit late getting back into the play but Bass got wrecked all of tonight on the pick and role.

I'm sorry, but "ROLL: Move or cause to move in a particular direction by turning over and over on an axis."

"ROLE: The function assumed or part played by a person or thing in a particular situation."

Pick and ROLL. Starting to ROLL.

ROLE Player. Played a ROLE.

Please.

[fairlee76]

Avery Bradley knows he's butter on a role and is much more than a roll player.