335 replies to this topic

[PedroSpecialK]

Suter's looking at $7m AAV minimum IMO, especially after a 3rd pairing PP QB like Liles garners $4m AAV.

I would also be interested in Visnovsky as he would fit the Bruins' need for a defensively competent puckmover better than Corvo or Kaberle, and his salary comes off the books in the "perfect storm" summer of 2013 when Lucic, Seguin, and Marchand are all up as RFAs and Horton is unrestricted. I think he can be had for a package containing either Spooner or a 2012 first, not both - something along the lines of:

Spooner
Sauve
Warsofsky
2012 2nd

would get it done, IMO.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 01 February 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Daws213]

I think a big loss that many of us are forgetting about when it comes to this teams scoring is Michael Ryder. I think Peverley fills in great on the first line and I agree with many of your points about a Lucic, Krejci, and Peverley doing some dangerous things but if that is your first line and your third line is Pouilot, Kelley, and Moen/Gustad/Caron etc, then I see the Bruins in some trouble. Last year they had Ryder to play on that third line and provide a legit scoring threat. They were able to cope with the loss of Peverley to the first line because they had Ryder but they no longer have a scoring threat left on that third line. This year, Pouilot is your Michael Ryder and that isn't a great thing. Just because they won the Stanely Cup last year with the same exact roster doesn't mean that other teams aren't better this year. There are some very dangerous teams in the East this year. Last year, the East wasn't so great especially when the Penguins lost Crosby and Malkin. Now this year the Bruins are going to have to go through the Rangers, Flyers, and Penguins most likely. While I still like the Bruins to do well, they need to upgrade that wing position because there are a lot of if's and question marks that surround that position.

Michael Ryder scored 18 goals last season and 18 goals the season before. He scored only 4 goals in 29 games after the All Star break last season. Sure he has improved this year with the Stars, but I think it's a little much to say the Bruins are missing Michael Ryder. Pouliot probably doesn't sign here if they re-sign Ryder, so the team would basically be in the same position now regarding the injury to Horton. The Bruins are still leading the league in scoring with the next closest team 11 goals back, so I think upgrading on defense is much more a priority than a winger.

Edited by Daws213, 01 February 2012 - 02:28 PM.

[Riles335]

Michael Ryder scored 18 goals last season and 18 goals the season before. He scored only 4 goals in 29 games after the All Star break last season. Sure he has improved this year with the Stars, but I think it's a little much to say the Bruins are missing Michael Ryder. Pouliot probably doesn't sign here if they re-sign Ryder, so the team would basically be in the same position now regarding the injury to Horton. The Bruins are still leading the league in scoring with the next closest team 11 goals back, so I think upgrading on defense is much more a priority than a winger.

Ryder scored 8 goals in the playoffs last year which placed him third on the team. Overall he collected the fourth most points on the team. You don't think there wasn't a loss there? How many third line players score 18 goals? Its very hard to find. Ryder was huge last year in the playoffs and made up for many of the below average performances by Recchi, Peverley, and to an extent Lucic. I understand that this team is first in the league in scoring but many of their goal totals (and I am not trying to discount these efforts) came in games in which they racked up goal totals of 7+ goals against mediocre goal tending. That simply isn't going to happen against Stanley Cup contending teams especially when you are going to have to likely go through Lundqvist and Fluery. Even dating back to last years playoffs, Carey Price almost single handily shut this team down from advancing in the playoffs.

I am not arguing that the defense isn't the number one priority. I think it is definitely the number one priority for this team as I have been a strong advocate for Ryan Suter but a scorer isn't far behind especially after the news of Horton. This Bruins team needs another scorer. Kelley has significantly fallen off since his hot start, Pouilot is a quesiton, there are health issues to Horton and Peverley, and as we all know Lucic and Krejci go through stretches of not showing up. There is a need here for a proven goal scorer.

Ideally I think the Bruins should be in talks with Dallas to acquire both Morrow and Souray. I know that it might cost you two or three quality prospects and a second round draft pick, but the Bruins could really strengthen themselves in two areas. I am not exactly sure if Dallas would be willing to part with both in the same deal but to get a guy like Morrow would bring a great deal of stability on the offensive end and Souray would bring you a PP quarterback who would fit that mold of being a Bruin in which you are tough and mean to play against. Souray is also slated to hit free agency this year so he wouldn't be a player that would tie you up long term unlike Visnovsky who is slated to make 5.1 million dollars next season.

Edited by Riles335, 01 February 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[j44thor]

Your willing to part with a #1, Caron, and Sponer as a starting point for a soon to be 36 year old defenseman signed through next year at 5.1 million dollars and you aren't sold on the Bruins going after Suter? Your crazy.

If you are willing to start with that package for Visnovsky at 35 years old, then Suter should be a no brainer. Suter is 26, would command probably that same 5 million dollar per year contract but is a much greater overall player.Visnovsky already has seemed to dip production wise and for 5.1 million dollars next year for a 36 year old declining defenseman would be crazy. Your also heading into a free agency with some contracts that need some serious attention...Rask, Boychuk, Kelley. Spending 5 million dollars per year plus that type of package would only be worth spending on Suter, not Visnovsky.

What is different with this package compared to the 1st, Colborne and conditional 2nd for Kaberle? That package I listed isn't going to get NAS to pick up the phone. Top pairing D men in their prime will take a lot more starting with at least Hamilton.

They don't need a Suter so I'd rather complement the roster with a Visnovsky and hold on to the very top prospects.
Also they don't have a #2 this season courtesy of the Kaberle trade so any deal will need to include a #1 for anything of value.

[Riles335]

What is different with this package compared to the 1st, Colborne and conditional 2nd for Kaberle? That package I listed isn't going to get NAS to pick up the phone. Top pairing D men in their prime will take a lot more starting with at least Hamilton.

They don't need a Suter so I'd rather complement the roster with a Visnovsky and hold on to the very top prospects.
Also they don't have a #2 this season courtesy of the Kaberle trade so any deal will need to include a #1 for anything of value.

I wouldn't be so sure about Nashville not picking up the phone. Nashville back in 2007 traded Timonen and Hartnell to Philadelphia for a first round pick because of their financial troubles. I understand that deal was made just previous to the free agency period but Nashville is once again in a similar situation with Suter and Weber. Toronto wasn't in a similar situation to Nashville because they weren't faced with such financial issues but rather dealt him from a pure talent stand point. Nashville might very well be pressed to deal both because of their financial situation which would in fact lower their demands. Because of this, Suter very realistically could be available for a first round draft pick and two strong prospects especially considering that Suter said he would not be signing an extension previous to the trade deadline. There is a strong possibility that the Predators could come away with multiple draft picks and prospects if they deal away Weber to a team like Philadelphia or Suter to a team like Boston.

Even dating back to a similar situation with Atlanta when the Thrashers dealt away soon to be unrestricted free agent Marian Hossa to Pittsburgh for a package of Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito, and a 1st round selection. A Boston package of a 1st round selection, Johny Boychuk, Jordan Caron, and Jared Knight for Nashville could very well get the job done.

Edited by Riles335, 01 February 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

As the Ponakarovsky deal demonstrated, Rutherford is selling big time. So I want Tuomo Ruttu as Horton insurance. He can score and definitely fits the difficult to play against mold.

This. Again. Get it done.

[Riles335]

This. Again. Get it done.

Nah, the Bruins offense isn't the problem. 1 percent of the time it is but not the other 99 percent.

[smastroyin]

So is it good or bad that the B's have gone into the doldrums right before the deadline? On the good side, when they were playing really well maybe you ignore some of the flaws more than you would otherwise, or get complacent and miss out on a really good deal because you don't think you need to do anything. On the bad, now there may be a tendency to overreact to problems that should be temporary.

What does seem clear is that Pevs on the third line is kind of a key portion of the way this whole team clicks. They have something stupid like 3 points in the 7 (?) games he has either been out or up on the first line (collated from memory). If Horton is going to be at half speed or no speed, I think they need a top 6 guy. I realize that especially the Penguins game was a lot like that 3-7 start. Lot of just failing to cash in on opportunities which eventually will start hitting the back of the net again. But, whether it is just the whole doldrums of the season thing they have been a far worse team for the last four weeks in all three zones, they have been worse on the PP, and they have even been downright bad on the PK a few times which I didn't really expect to see from this team.

Which is to say they need Pavel Datsyuk, so get it done Chia.

[Riles335]

So is it good or bad that the B's have gone into the doldrums right before the deadline? On the good side, when they were playing really well maybe you ignore some of the flaws more than you would otherwise, or get complacent and miss out on a really good deal because you don't think you need to do anything. On the bad, now there may be a tendency to overreact to problems that should be temporary.

What does seem clear is that Pevs on the third line is kind of a key portion of the way this whole team clicks. They have something stupid like 3 points in the 7 (?) games he has either been out or up on the first line (collated from memory). If Horton is going to be at half speed or no speed, I think they need a top 6 guy. I realize that especially the Penguins game was a lot like that 3-7 start. Lot of just failing to cash in on opportunities which eventually will start hitting the back of the net again. But, whether it is just the whole doldrums of the season thing they have been a far worse team for the last four weeks in all three zones, they have been worse on the PP, and they have even been downright bad on the PK a few times which I didn't really expect to see from this team.

Which is to say they need Pavel Datsyuk, so get it done Chia.

I think this is exactly right. Like I have been saying, Peverley to the first line creates a negative domino affect with the rest of the team. It starts to place guys in places where they don't really fit. A strong example of this would be Pouilot. The Bruins can't continue to place Pouilot and Lucic on the same power play unit, that is a recipe for disaster. If the Bruins are lucky enough to get Horton back, acquiring a top 6 forward would just further sweeten the pot with this team and give this team a serious fall back option for guys like Peverley, Horton, Lucic, and Krejci who have had a hard time staying healthy in the past.

[smastroyin]

Now I think about it I really want them to get Ruutu because more u's are better.

[veritas]

I think this is exactly right. Like I have been saying, Peverley to the first line creates a negative domino affect with the rest of the team. It starts to place guys in places where they don't really fit. A strong example of this would be Pouilot. The Bruins can't continue to place Pouilot and Lucic on the same power play unit, that is a recipe for disaster. If the Bruins are lucky enough to get Horton back, acquiring a top 6 forward would just further sweeten the pot with this team and give this team a serious fall back option for guys like Peverley, Horton, Lucic, and Krejci who have had a hard time staying healthy in the past.

I agree completely about the domino effect. They won last year with depth and when they've been winning this year it's been with depth.

A guy like Ruutu would be nice to solidify the 3rd line, but imagine if they got a legitimate top 6 winger? When healthy the'd have a 3rd line of Kelly-Peverley-Horton (at worst, assuming everyone is healthy) which would create ridiculous matchup problems. They were lucky to stay healthy last season, but you can't win a cup with guys like Hamil and Caron getting 3rd line minutes.

[cshea]

Bobby Mac seems to think Carolina may kick off the deadline this week with a few deals.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=387096

General manager Jim Rutherford has been talking to teams about Ruutu (who is an unrestricted free agent this summer) and the asking price has been steep - a significant draft pick and a solid prospect or a top prospect alone.

I think that's way too high a price for the Bruins. With Horton back skating, and likely due back shortly, they'd essentially be upgrading Pouliot to Ruutu. A first and a prospect is not worth it, in my opinion. Save the assets, find a defenseman that's better than Joe Corvo.

[Riles335]

Bobby Mac seems to think Carolina may kick off the deadline this week with a few deals.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=387096



I think that's way too high a price for the Bruins. With Horton back skating, and likely due back shortly, they'd essentially be upgrading Pouliot to Ruutu. A first and a prospect is not worth it, in my opinion. Save the assets, find a defenseman that's better than Joe Corvo.

While I agree with you that the price on Ruutu is definitely way to high, do you trust Horton to stay healthy for the remainder of the year? At this point with Horton, we are entering that gray area where Horton could be one hit away from suffering a significant career injury. Similar to when Savard came back from two concussions, Savard was hit for a third time and in result ended his career. While Horton is younger, there are definitely health questions that surround Horton. With this, I think it is a necessity that the Bruins acquire another top 6 forward. If you are able to land a winger at the right price and Horton is able to come back from his concussion just fine, it will have been icing on the cake. If Horton is unable to come back and endures another injury, you will have cushioned yourself quite comfortably. I 100% agree with you that a high draft pick and prospect is not worth it for Ruutu but I still think that a top 6 forward is a huge need for this Bruins team.

What about Teddy Purcell from Tampa? Right now Tampa is in no mans land and they're have been rumblings that they are willing to move their forwards in exchange for goaltending and defenseman help. Getting a guy like Purcell, who has shown an ability to play with the likes of Stamkos to the likes of Dominic Moore, Purcell could really help this team fill that 1st line/3rd line winger need. I am not exactly sure as to what Tampa would want in return but the Bruins could offer a package built around Johnny Boychuk and Jordan Caron.

Here is more on the rumblings out of Tampa:

http://www.thefourth.../tbl120205.html

[PedroSpecialK]

If "significant draft pick and solid prospect" can be a 2nd and Caron or Kampfer, I'm all ears - though there is a good chance Purcell comes cheaper and does pretty much the same thing, he seems like he'd be a good target as well.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 06 February 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[cshea]

The Bruins don't have a 2nd this year, but if it was 2013, I'd consider it. I still don't think I'd pull the trigger on that. I still would rather try and shop that type of package around for a defensive upgrade, and pick up a Moen/Gaustad type bottom 6 guy for a bag of pucks as a depth forward.

[Spaulding Smails]

On the defensive side I think Toni Lydman could be a decent pickup at the deadline with the Ducks way out of contention. 34 years old and is on the books for $3 mil next year plus with Corvo and Boychuk as UFA's, he could be a pretty good stop gap until Hamilton is ready.

[Riles335]

The Bruins don't have a 2nd this year, but if it was 2013, I'd consider it. I still don't think I'd pull the trigger on that. I still would rather try and shop that type of package around for a defensive upgrade, and pick up a Moen/Gaustad type bottom 6 guy for a bag of pucks as a depth forward.

Any specific guys you like defensively?

Smails mentioned Lydman from the Ducks and a guy I still like is Ryan Whitney. He has had a hard time staying healthy as of late but a guy I could really see Edmonton dealing away. Edmonton has really started to fade out West and Whitney, being a veteran defenseman would love a shot at the cup after he was dealt away from the the cup winning Penguins back in 2008-09, would make a ton of sense for the Bruins. He is a strong two way defenseman that can really contribute on the offensive end. He can quarterback the power play and really give this team a more reliable defenseman over either Corvo or Boychuk. He is a local guy and is someone like Lydman who could fill the gap for the following year. His cap hit is 5.5 million dollars which is a bit steep but is a player would would most likely come relatively cheap considering his durability issues, his cap hit, and where Edmonton is headed.

[TheShynessClinic]

What about Teddy Purcell from Tampa? Right now Tampa is in no mans land and they're have been rumblings that they are willing to move their forwards in exchange for goaltending and defenseman help. Getting a guy like Purcell, who has shown an ability to play with the likes of Stamkos to the likes of Dominic Moore, Purcell could really help this team fill that 1st line/3rd line winger need. I am not exactly sure as to what Tampa would want in return but the Bruins could offer a package built around Johnny Boychuk and Jordan Caron.

And who fills in for Boychuk? The LAST thing the Bruins need to do is give up defensive depth right now. The offense right now is not this teams issue. It's the 5/6 spot on the defense. Getting rid of someone like Boychuk for a marginal upgrade over Pouliot is not the answer.

[Riles335]

And who fills in for Boychuk? The LAST thing the Bruins need to do is give up defensive depth right now. The offense right now is not this teams issue. It's the 5/6 spot on the defense. Getting rid of someone like Boychuk for a marginal upgrade over Pouliot is not the answer.

If you were to move Boychuk, there would be a need for a defenseman. I agree with you there. I do feel confident in PC having the balls to make multiple moves at the deadline. The fact that he has come out and said he would like to add a depth forward and defenseman speaks volumes of his interests. In the past he has been vocal about what the Boston Bruins need and he has always backed his word.

If you deal for a player like Purcell, there is a real possibility that another shoe would need to drop. I think the upgrade to a player like Purcell over Pouilot is a more than a marginal upgrade and would be a considerable upgrade. If you were to move Boychuk in a trade for a goal scorer, players like Lydman and Whitney definitely come to mind. There cap hits are a bit high but the Bruins do possess a good amount of wiggle room heading into this coming offseason. Maybe Fedor Tyutin from Columbus. A steady defenseman who can play the power play and possesses playoff experience with the Rangers. Would most likely cost nothing more than a bag of pucks considering his UFA tag and would be a strong replacement to Boychuk. Another name would be Mark Giordano from Calgary. If Calgary decides to become sellers at the deadline, a player like Giordano would be highly sought after but would definitely be within reason for the Bruins to be players.

If the Bruins could walk away with players like Purcell/Ruutu and Lydman/Tyutin with just giving up Boychuk as your only considerable NHL piece, that would be a hell of a deadline and a strong possibility. To teams like Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim, Calgary, and Columbus, pieces like Caron, Kampfer, Bartkowski and picks carry significant value. A deadline in which you walk away with a scoring and defensive upgrade would be a slam dunk for PC. Ultimately, I really see this team landing a top 6 forward and top 5 defenseman.

[The Four Peters]

Wait, according to your scenario, marginally upgrading your 3rd line and downgrading/treading water on defense from Boychuk to Tyutin/Lydman is a hell of a deadline? AND you're giving up assets to do this?

I know you like to see your words in print, but do you think about what you're actually saying before you hit post? If you don't, you should start.

[Riles335]

Wait, according to your scenario, marginally upgrading your 3rd line and downgrading/treading water on defense from Boychuk to Tyutin/Lydman is a hell of a deadline? AND you're giving up assets to do this?

Can you please explain to me how Purcell or Ruutu are marginal upgrades over Pouilot? Not only are Purcell or Ruutu clear upgrades over Pouilot but they also provide quality insurance to Horton. Since the break Pouilot has registered 0 points, 4 shots, and 2 minor penalties despite seeing an increase in power play time. Dating all the way back to January 12th, Pouilot has registered a grand total of 2 points. If Horton is unable to make a full recovery, it is unacceptable for the Bruins to have Benoit Pouilot getting substantial ice time. He was once the laughing stock of us Bruins fans and we are now okay with him playing 13+ minutes a night? Purcell and Ruutu are actual offensive threats and would provide this Bruins team with a great deal of cushion.

Tyutin and Lydman are downgrades from Boychuk? Boychuk possesses a fast shot (that hardly ever hits the net) and an occasional hip check but other than that is mediocre at best at both ends of the rink. I would classify both Tyutin and Lydman as more consistent players than Boychuk. Both players remind me heavily of Ference. They aren't going to make many mistakes in their own zone and will possess the threat of jumping up in the play.

[Spaulding Smails]

Can you please explain to me how Purcell or Ruutu are marginal upgrades over Pouilot? Not only are Purcell or Ruutu clear upgrades over Pouilot but they also provide quality insurance to Horton. Since the break Pouilot has registered 0 points, 4 shots, and 2 minor penalties despite seeing an increase in power play time. Dating all the way back to January 12th, Pouilot has registered a grand total of 2 points. If Horton is unable to make a full recovery, it is unacceptable for the Bruins to have Benoit Pouilot getting substantial ice time. He was once the laughing stock of us Bruins fans and we are now okay with him playing 13+ minutes a night? Purcell and Ruutu are actual offensive threats and would provide this Bruins team with a great deal of cushion.

Tyutin and Lydman are downgrades from Boychuk? Boychuk possesses a fast shot (that hardly ever hits the net) and an occasional hip check but other than that is mediocre at best at both ends of the rink. I would classify both Tyutin and Lydman as more consistent players than Boychuk. Both players remind me heavily of Ference. They aren't going to make many mistakes in their own zone and will possess the threat of jumping up in the play.

Because when you factor in the cost to acquire those players that cuts into their value. Yeah Ruutu and Purcell may have 10 more points than Pouliot but if you have to give up a decent package to acquire them then its really just a marginal upgrade if that.

I only mentioned Lydman as a potential Corvo replacement, this team can't afford to be trading away any of their top 6 defensemen.

[PedroSpecialK]

Riles, I think you're underselling Boychuk. I agree that he doesn't have the sexiest game is prone to errors in his own end, but I firmly believe that it's Corvo that needs to be upgraded heading into the deadline. Obviously, Boychuk gets the huge benefit of being Chara's partner at even strength, but his numbers speak for themselves: 2nd on the blue line in relative Corsi and blocked shots, first on the team in on-ice shooting% against as well as Corsi (unadjusted and relative) Quality of Competition. In my eyes, it's a dead heat between him and Seidenberg as far as performance to date as the team's #2 defender.

It must be noted that Corvo has been an anchor in every sense of the word on Seidenberg's game - despite leading the team in blocked shots and on-ice shooting% against while logging the second most minutes at ES and on the PK, Seidenberg comes in at 4th in relative Corsi, and has IMO been really hurt statistically and psychologically by having to adjust his game to guard against Corvo's gaffes. We all remember his ability to jump into the play on the forecheck and deliver big hits deep in the offensive zone to keep cycles going this past postseason. He's been getting back to that lately, but it's not quite the same as when he knew Chara was back there to cover for him. IMO the main objective on the blue line should be to acquire a guy like Lydman or Hannan who can slot in as a 2nd pairing guy to get Corvo down to #6/7 minutes and rotate with Chara/Seidenberg/Boychuk for 45-48 minutes per game among the four of them.

I am with Riles in his thinking that Horton can not reasonably be relied upon to fill a first line role the rest of the way. He was an average "first liner" when he was healthy this season, really more of an acceptable winger on a 1B line, and putting together the following forward corps is much more impressive than one with what's proven to be an offensively inept Caron - Kelly - Pouliot third line:

Lucic - Krejci - Peverley
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Selanne/Ruutu/Purcell - Kelly - Pouliot
Paille - Campbell - Thornton

or with Horton healthy

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Selanne/Ruutu/Purcell - Kelly - Peverley
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
Pouliot/Caron as extras

edit: Forward trade talk aside, claiming Anthony Stewart would go a long way to curing the ills of 3rd line winger IMO. If they can nab him and put more assets toward acquiring a D, I'd be A-OK with that.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 07 February 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[Riles335]

Riles, I think you're underselling Boychuk. I agree that he doesn't have the sexiest game is prone to errors in his own end, but I firmly believe that it's Corvo that needs to be upgraded heading into the deadline. Obviously, Boychuk gets the huge benefit of being Chara's partner at even strength, but his numbers speak for themselves: 2nd on the blue line in relative Corsi and blocked shots, first on the team in on-ice shooting% against as well as Corsi (unadjusted and relative) Quality of Competition. In my eyes, it's a dead heat between him and Seidenberg as far as performance to date as the team's #2 defender.

It must be noted that Corvo has been an anchor in every sense of the word on Seidenberg's game - despite leading the team in blocked shots and on-ice shooting% against while logging the second most minutes at ES and on the PK, Seidenberg comes in at 4th in relative Corsi, and has IMO been really hurt statistically and psychologically by having to adjust his game to guard against Corvo's gaffes. We all remember his ability to jump into the play on the forecheck and deliver big hits deep in the offensive zone to keep cycles going this past postseason. He's been getting back to that lately, but it's not quite the same as when he knew Chara was back there to cover for him. IMO the main objective on the blue line should be to acquire a guy like Lydman or Hannan who can slot in as a 2nd pairing guy to get Corvo down to #6/7 minutes and rotate with Chara/Seidenberg/Boychuk for 45-48 minutes per game among the four of them.

I am with Riles in his thinking that Horton can not reasonably be relied upon to fill a first line role the rest of the way. He was an average "first liner" when he was healthy this season, really more of an acceptable winger on a 1B line, and putting together the following forward corps is much more impressive than one with what's proven to be an offensively inept Caron - Kelly - Pouliot third line:

Lucic - Krejci - Peverley
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Selanne/Ruutu/Purcell - Kelly - Pouliot
Paille - Campbell - Thornton

or with Horton healthy

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Selanne/Ruutu/Purcell - Kelly - Peverley
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
Pouliot/Caron as extras

Thanks for the digestion on Boychuk, really appreciate it. I do agree with you on the assertion that Corvo is the one that needs replacement. He was originally the one I mentioned but I got lost in the trade talk involving Boychuk. Like you said, his game isn't sexy but he does make up for it with his ability to block shots, compete with Chara, and like I mentioned earlier, throw his body around. Ideally, I would love for the Bruins to keep Boychuk and land a player like Ruutu or Purcell for players like Caron, Kampfer, or Bartkowski. If that is what it will take to land either of those wingers, you have to jump at it and not think twice. I was simply thinking at the likes of the other organizations and the feasible NHL talent that those organizations would want (i.e Boychuk).

Edited by Riles335, 07 February 2012 - 12:23 AM.

[Eddie Jurak]

I think they they should either look to make minor depth deals, to shore up the bottom six/3rd pair without giving up significant picks/prospects. Or they should look to bring in an impact defenseman who could be here for years to come, in which case they would need to be ready to deal significant future value. If its a guy on an expiring contract, I don't think they need to insist on an extension agreement before making a deal - the Bruins are a more attractive FA destination than they were a few years ago.

I hope they don't deal Caron. If they have to do it in the right deal, so be it, but it's disappointing that he may go without ever getting a serious look.

[smastroyin]

There is just no way around the fact that I am really concerned about a second concussion to Horton within a year. It is bad luck, I really like him as a player, and I hope he is 100% before I finish typing this post. But, the Savvy thing would make me really really careful.

That said, if Carolina sets the market with that kind of price for Ruutu, I hate to see what the price is going to be for the actual premium talent and since the B's don't *have* to do anything probably would be happier if they didn't pay it. I like Ruutu well enough, but he's no Suter or Parise.

[The Four Peters]

I think they they should either look to make minor depth deals, to shore up the bottom six/3rd pair without giving up significant picks/prospects. Or they should look to bring in an impact defenseman who could be here for years to come, in which case they would need to be ready to deal significant future value. If its a guy on an expiring contract, I don't think they need to insist on an extension agreement before making a deal - the Bruins are a more attractive FA destination than they were a few years ago.

I agree completely with this. This team as currently constituted is a serious contender, so they can make some minor moves to protect against injury and foster competition. I don't see a need to trade anyone in their top 6 on defense or any forwards, really. Hell, they were able to trade for Recchi and Seidenberg 2 years ago and they only gave up Byron Bitz off the NHL roster. I see a similar goal this year for PC (although I doubt it will work out as swimmingly as those deals did).

I hope they don't deal Caron. If they have to do it in the right deal, so be it, but it's disappointing that he may go without ever getting a serious look.

Meh, Caron is exactly the type of guy they can afford to deal that will return good value. I don't see him making an major impact on this team in the next 2 years and there are better players right on his heels in the prospect pipeline. He's a good player, but he's gotten a couple shots and just hasn't done much with them. I like his effort, he could definitely develop into a 2nd/3rd line player someday, but he's one the B's can afford to move that other teams would covet.

[TheShynessClinic]

Think about what the Bruins had to give up last year to acquire Kaberle.

Looking at the current lineup, do any of you really feel that we could improve the lineup significantly enough over the current talent without giving up that same kind of package to make it viable and worth it?

Yea, I'd like to turn Caron, Kampfer, and a 3rd round pick into something awesome too, but it's not going to happen. Teams know that our system (minus Knight, Spooner, and Hamilton) is pretty much shit. No GM is going to think to himself "Hm, I could really rebuild my shitty franchise around Tommy Cross."

[The Four Peters]

Thanks for the digestion on Boychuk, really appreciate it. I do agree with you on the assertion that Corvo is the one that needs replacement. He was originally the one I mentioned but I got lost in the trade talk involving Boychuk. Like you said, his game isn't sexy but he does make up for it with his ability to block shots, compete with Chara, and like I mentioned earlier, throw his body around. Ideally, I would love for the Bruins to keep Boychuk and land a player like Ruutu or Purcell for players like Caron, Kampfer, or Bartkowski. If that is what it will take to land either of those wingers, you have to jump at it and not think twice. I was simply thinking at the likes of the other organizations and the feasible NHL talent that those organizations would want (i.e Boychuk).

Here's the thing. You've now posted 9 times on this page and your proposals are all over the place. You seem like you're trying to think about things, but not every thought in your head needs to make it onto the page at 5-10 sentences a whack. You've thrown out about 15 names that the Bruins could target and mentioned about 10 guys on the Bruins who could be dealt. You've gone from scenarios dealing Boychuk that really don't make sense to turning around and saying that you really don't want to trade him after all. Take some time to think through your ideas and discuss the ones that make the most sense. Not every conceivable scenario needs a full rambling essay. Hell, the post I'm quoting could have been made in literally 2 sentences.

[SoxScout]

"Now you're asking a lawyer to do math," he joked. What we were trying to figure out was exactly how much actual salary the Bruins could add at the trade deadline. The reason for the exercise is that the second-best team in the Eastern Conference standings also has a dangerous amount of salary-cap space. It's incredible, really, and a credit to the work and planning done by Chiarelli and his two assistant GMs, Jim Benning and Don Sweeney.

Take away Marc Savard's $4 million and the flexibility is even higher. If Boston wanted to, it could add $16 million in contracts at the deadline. Maybe more.
"We're in a good spot.," Chiarelli said when the math was settled. "It's what you do with it."

And that's the challenge ahead for Chiarelli as the Feb. 27 trade deadline closes in. He has the space and assets to add a significant piece, but he has a team that, after a slow start, has played as well as any this season. In the next few weeks, there will be a bit of a balancing act performed by the front office. You want to fortify a Stanley Cup contender but you don't want to mess with what's working.

"You can add a player and he could not fit in," Chiarelli said. "It can upset the apple cart pretty easily."

http://insider.espn....ston-bruins-nhl

[Titoschew]

Here's the thing. You've now posted 9 times on this page and your proposals are all over the place. You seem like you're trying to think about things, but not every thought in your head needs to make it onto the page at 5-10 sentences a whack. You've thrown out about 15 names that the Bruins could target and mentioned about 10 guys on the Bruins who could be dealt. You've gone from scenarios dealing Boychuk that really don't make sense to turning around and saying that you really don't want to trade him after all. Take some time to think through your ideas and discuss the ones that make the most sense. Not every conceivable scenario needs a full rambling essay. Hell, the post I'm quoting could have been made in literally 2 sentences.

[smastroyin]

I love that the reunification of Neely and Sweeney has brought such good things to the organization.

[cshea]

There is just no way around the fact that I am really concerned about a second concussion to Horton within a year. It is bad luck, I really like him as a player, and I hope he is 100% before I finish typing this post. But, the Savvy thing would make me really really careful.

That said, if Carolina sets the market with that kind of price for Ruutu, I hate to see what the price is going to be for the actual premium talent and since the B's don't *have* to do anything probably would be happier if they didn't pay it. I like Ruutu well enough, but he's no Suter or Parise.

I get the concern about Horton, but I don't think the Bruins should be out looking for an insurance policy like Ruutu. Horton has started skating, so one would expect him to return sometime soon. I realize his concussion history is cause for concern, but so is Bergeron's. Hell, every player on the team is basically a hit away from having their season ended, so there's only so much the team can do to protect themselves from this happening. The best way is by building depth.

[TheShynessClinic]

Jesus. I knew the Bruins were in a good position with the cap, but that's ridiculous. It certainly opens up the opportunity to take on a bad contract in exchange for acquiring the right player, while still giving up relatively little.

[FL4WL3SS]

Think about what the Bruins had to give up last year to acquire Kaberle.

Looking at the current lineup, do any of you really feel that we could improve the lineup significantly enough over the current talent without giving up that same kind of package to make it viable and worth it?

Yea, I'd like to turn Caron, Kampfer, and a 3rd round pick into something awesome too, but it's not going to happen. Teams know that our system (minus Knight, Spooner, and Hamilton) is pretty much shit. No GM is going to think to himself "Hm, I could really rebuild my shitty franchise around Tommy Cross."

This is why you don't blow assets on marginal players at the deadline. You either make that big splash ala Hossa or you stand pat. There's a big difference between wanting to upgrade and needing to upgrade and the Bruins certainly don't need to upgrade.

I'd have no problem with them going out and selling the farm for Suter or Weber, but I'd have a huge problem marginally upgrading the team with Ruutu while giving up significant assets.

[FL4WL3SS]

Here's the thing. You've now posted 9 times on this page and your proposals are all over the place. You seem like you're trying to think about things, but not every thought in your head needs to make it onto the page at 5-10 sentences a whack. You've thrown out about 15 names that the Bruins could target and mentioned about 10 guys on the Bruins who could be dealt. You've gone from scenarios dealing Boychuk that really don't make sense to turning around and saying that you really don't want to trade him after all. Take some time to think through your ideas and discuss the ones that make the most sense. Not every conceivable scenario needs a full rambling essay. Hell, the post I'm quoting could have been made in literally 2 sentences.

All I hear is blah blah blah, I'm a dirty whore.

[smastroyin]

I get the concern about Horton, but I don't think the Bruins should be out looking for an insurance policy like Ruutu. Horton has started skating, so one would expect him to return sometime soon. I realize his concussion history is cause for concern, but so is Bergeron's. Hell, every player on the team is basically a hit away from having their season ended, so there's only so much the team can do to protect themselves from this happening. The best way is by building depth.

Any sensible risk analysis would draw a sharp distinction between a guy who has had two concussions in the past 8 months and random events that can take out any given player.

[The Napkin]

Hell, they were able to trade for Recchi and Seidenberg 2 years ago and they only gave up Byron Bitz off the NHL roster.

I wonder what kind of shape the old man is in. I'm only half kidding. Maybe less.
(Yeah, I know. Never happen. Still.)

[smastroyin]

This is why you don't blow assets on marginal players at the deadline. You either make that big splash ala Hossa or you stand pat. There's a big difference between wanting to upgrade and needing to upgrade and the Bruins certainly don't need to upgrade.

I can't agree with this. You can say that this year they have the depth they need, but last year the difference makers were the depth deals (Peverley and Kelly) not the star deal (Kaberle). I also understand that everyone is using vague adjectives that mean different things to different people ("significant assets", et al), but I think it's also pretty crazy to think that this team can't improve except with a superstar.

[soxfan121]

There is just no way around the fact that I am really concerned about a second concussion to Horton within a year. It is bad luck, I really like him as a player, and I hope he is 100% before I finish typing this post. But, the Savvy thing would make me really really careful.

By this logic, the B's should be looking to backstop Bergeron too. And yeah, it makes me really concerned as well, but the fact is that Bergeron went through two severe concussions - much more severe than Horton - and is "one hit away" as well.

Seems to me that the weak spot in the roster is the same as it has been for the past 18 months - puck moving defenseman. Put me in the camp that wants the biggest, baddest, bestest player for that slot possible, as this team is "in the window" and I'd be hoping that acquiring a Suter or Vishnovsky type would stiffen the D and help us win a couple more Cups. Think big when you're in this spot - a prospect who isn't gonna impact the team for several seasons is not as valuable right now as a guy who can give you several seasons of top-level performance in the NHL. So, yeah, give up Hamilton if you have to in order to secure Suter.

[FL4WL3SS]

I can't agree with this. You can say that this year they have the depth they need, but last year the difference makers were the depth deals (Peverley and Kelly) not the star deal (Kaberle). I also understand that everyone is using vague adjectives that mean different things to different people ("significant assets", et al), but I think it's also pretty crazy to think that this team can't improve except with a superstar.

Yeah, I wasn't clear, I'm only talking about this year. There's no need to blow assets on a marginal upgrade - especially at the forward position.

I'm not arguing that it will only take a superstar to improve the team, I'm arguing that it's not worth the assets for a marginal upgrade. I don't think a marginal upgrade is going to significantly increase the chances that this team has to win the Cup, so it's not worth the assets in my opinion. The only way a trade makes sense for the Bruins is if they can dictate the terms of the trade.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

"You can add a player and he could not fit in," Chiarelli said.

Above is the reason why I have wanted to add guys like Ruttu, Lydman and Hannan. These guys fit this teams style and enhance it. They make the 5vs5 play of the team better while adding physicality and defensive responsibility. I like the idea of adding Gaustad too if he can be had reasonibly from Buffalo. He's another guy that can win on the dot and If you saw him the other other night in the game against the Rangers, you can see how easily his game would mesh with what the B's are about and he probably tells Lucic nobody wanted to fight for Miller because he's a fragile diva.

Also, with the team's cap situation they wouldn't nessicarily have to move Pouliot or Corvo. They could rotate the roster until the post season, getting guys rest when needed and have two capable fill ins when the playoff injuries happen.

What I don't want is just grabing high priced left overs because they come cheap and the B's have the cap space. Any aquisition has to compliment what this team does well.

[Riles335]

Here's the thing. You've now posted 9 times on this page and your proposals are all over the place. You seem like you're trying to think about things, but not every thought in your head needs to make it onto the page at 5-10 sentences a whack. You've thrown out about 15 names that the Bruins could target and mentioned about 10 guys on the Bruins who could be dealt. You've gone from scenarios dealing Boychuk that really don't make sense to turning around and saying that you really don't want to trade him after all. Take some time to think through your ideas and discuss the ones that make the most sense. Not every conceivable scenario needs a full rambling essay. Hell, the post I'm quoting could have been made in literally 2 sentences.

I have only mentioned five players I would like the Bruins to acquire. Suter, Tyutin, Purcell, Ruutu, and Giordano are the players I mentioned. Boychuk is a player I like (at times) but I realistically see lower market teams having serious interest in him because he is a solid defenseman who won't command big bucks.

I get the concern about Horton, but I don't think the Bruins should be out looking for an insurance policy like Ruutu. Horton has started skating, so one would expect him to return sometime soon. I realize his concussion history is cause for concern, but so is Bergeron's. Hell, every player on the team is basically a hit away from having their season ended, so there's only so much the team can do to protect themselves from this happening. The best way is by building depth.

Doesn't the injury concern to a few of the Bruins make for a top 6 forward that much more? Right now the Bruins lack considerable depth scoring and by acquiring a top 6 forward you cushion yourself considerably. Players like Caron, Kampfer, and Bartkowski can be had by from a Bruins perspective and would grab the interest of a few organizations.

[TheShynessClinic]

Doesn't the injury concern to a few of the Bruins make for a top 6 forward that much more? Right now the Bruins lack considerable depth scoring and by acquiring a top 6 forward you cushion yourself considerably. Players like Caron, Kampfer, and Bartkowski can be had by from a Bruins perspective and would grab the interest of a few organizations.

You're completely insane if you think the Bruins are going to acquire a top-6 forward for the players you're willing to give up. You refuse to acknowledge the fact that other teams don't want the Bruins "not quite good enoughs."

[FL4WL3SS]

Doesn't the injury concern to a few of the Bruins make for a top 6 forward that much more? Right now the Bruins lack considerable depth scoring and by acquiring a top 6 forward you cushion yourself considerably. Players like Caron, Kampfer, and Bartkowski can be had by from a Bruins perspective and would grab the interest of a few organizations.

Seriously, you really need to stop. Your lack of NHL knowledge and your complete inability to just shut your mouth when people tell you how ridiculous you sound is getting really annoying.

I think everyone in here has been more than gracious enough to try and talk reasonably with you, but you continue to ignore the posters that know what they're talking about and keep spewing nonsense.

[cshea]

I have only mentioned five players I would like the Bruins to acquire. Suter, Tyutin, Purcell, Ruutu, and Giordano are the players I mentioned. Boychuk is a player I like (at times) but I realistically see lower market teams having serious interest in him because he is a solid defenseman who won't command big bucks.



Doesn't the injury concern to a few of the Bruins make for a top 6 forward that much more? Right now the Bruins lack considerable depth scoring and by acquiring a top 6 forward you cushion yourself considerably. Players like Caron, Kampfer, and Bartkowski can be had by from a Bruins perspective and would grab the interest of a few organizations.

The Bruins lead the league in goals. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that they "lack considerable depth scoring." They had 2 bad games last week against a Carolina team that has given them fits all year, and a tough Pittsburgh team. Those have been the only 2 games since October when they had a hard time scoring. These stretches happen during a season. They lost 3 games recently in which they scored 3 goals (Vancouver, Tampa, Washington). The problem, of late, is more of keeping the puck out of their own net. Not scoring goals.

I've said my piece on this. I think a first plus a prospect for Ruutu/Morrow/Whomever is an expensive insurance policy, and one the Bruins do not need to take out. They have guys on the roster that can fill in on the top 6 if needed. I would prefer they move smaller assets for a depth forward and a depth defenseman (Scott Hannan, Andy Sutton type). They need to upgrade Kampfer/Caron since those are the guys that would be pressed into the lineup if an injury were to occur.

[Riles335]

You're completely insane if you think the Bruins are going to acquire a top-6 forward for the players you're willing to give up. You refuse to acknowledge the fact that other teams don't want the Bruins "not quite good enoughs."

The Bruins acquired Mark Recchi AND a second round pick from the Lightning in exchange for Karsums and Lashoff back in 2009. I think its feasible to think that the Bruins could acquire a player like Ray Whitney (more realistically over Purcell or Ruutu) from Phoenix for a package of Caron and Kampfer. Whitney is having a comparable season to Recchi's 2009. I would be very surprised if Phoenix was able to pull in a larger package for Whitney considering his age and upcoming contract situation.

[Riles335]

The Bruins lead the league in goals. I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that they "lack considerable depth scoring."

They need to upgrade Kampfer/Caron since those are the guys that would be pressed into the lineup if an injury were to occur.

I think you answered your own statement.

[BoSoxFink]

This is why you don't blow assets on marginal players at the deadline. You either make that big splash ala Hossa or you stand pat. There's a big difference between wanting to upgrade and needing to upgrade and the Bruins certainly don't need to upgrade. I'd have no problem with them going out and selling the farm for Suter or Weber, but I'd have a huge problem marginally upgrading the team with Ruutu while giving up significant assets.

Would you give up Caron and a pick if that ended up being what Carolina asked for on Ruutu?

Also would you only be up selling the farm for a superstar d man? Or would you also be willing to go that route for Parise if he somehow became available, even though it is highly unlikely?

[Spaulding Smails]

The Bruins acquired Mark Recchi AND a second round pick from the Lightning in exchange for Karsums and Lashoff back in 2009. I think its feasible to think that the Bruins could acquire a player like Ray Whitney (more realistically over Purcell or Ruutu) from Phoenix for a package of Caron and Kampfer. Whitney is having a comparable season to Recchi's 2009. I would be very surprised if Phoenix was able to pull in a larger package for Whitney considering his age and upcoming contract situation.

You would be surprised if Phoenix could get a better package than Caron and Kampfer? Trading your leading scorer for two healthy scratches on most nights? Yeah I think they could do much better at the deadline with many teams bidding for Whitney's services.