335 replies to this topic

[Riles335]

With the trade deadline about a month away, it's time to talk about possible Bruins come February 27th. Who is on the Bruins radar? Who do you want to see the Bruins get? Any rumors or rumblings? Lets discuss it here!

PC has already come out saying that he would like to add a depth forward and defenseman so it looks like he is looking to upgrade. On both fronts I would like to see the Bruins target Ray Whitney from Phoenix. He would help bring a scoring touch and would bring a Stanely Cup presence (not that they now need it but they are still young and Recchi in the locker room definitely helped them last year). Another name on the back end would be Tim Gleason from Carolina. He fits the Bruins mold of being big and physical and his biggest strength is that he takes care of the puck in his own zone. He might not be an offensive power but he would be a pleasant upgrade over Boychuk. Neither player would command much as both are UFA this coming season.

The big name out there would be soon to be UFA Ryan Suter but not sure how many people around here would feel about salvaging a big time package to land him.

Other thoughts? What are other people thinking?

Edited by Riles335, 26 January 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[TheShynessClinic]

With Calgary being somewhat out of it, I'd love to see what it would take to get Mark Giordano away from them.

He's still relatively young (28), he DID just come back from injury..but he's a great puck mover who would help on the PP and the breakout.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

With Calgary being somewhat out of it, I'd love to see what it would take to get Mark Giordano away from them.

He's still relatively young (28), he DID just come back from injury..but he's a great puck mover who would help on the PP and the breakout.

With Feaster dealing for Cammalleri I don't think the Flames are sellers just yet. Also having Giordano signed through 2016 seems to indicate that the Flames see him as a key player and he probably wouldn't be in play.

As the Ponakarovsky deal demonstrated, Rutherford is selling big time. So I want Tuomo Ruttu as Horton insurance. He can score and definitely fits the difficult to play against mold. I'd also like a 2/3 defensive blueliner. Emphasize defense and grit in any acquisition and make this team even tougher to deal with 5 vs 5. Essentially the opposite of the Kaberle deal.

edit-font size snafu

Edited by Curtis_Lesspanic, 26 January 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[PedroSpecialK]

Giordano seems like a guy they'd keep through their rebuild. He's signed for four more years after this one at $4.02m AAV and has a full no-movement clause which becomes an NTC before the last two seasons. They'll be looking to move guys like Babchuk, Morrison, Kostopolous, Stempniak, Moss, etc - I don't think Feaster's going to go for a full rebuild though, despite how god-awful the contracts of Tanguay, Bouwmeester, Stajan, Glencross etc. are. FFS they have 11 player movement restrictions of some degree on their cap, with guys like Jokinen, Glencross, Sarich, and Kiprusoff all having NMCs. Calgary will be between 9th and 11th place for a long time to come.

I was having the Suter debate with Terras the other night. I would fork over a considerable prospect/pick package for him, while giving Nashville the option of taking Corvo as they will be a playoff team yet again. I'd give up:

One of Spooner/Khokhlachev
One of Warsofsky/Sauve
Corvo
2012 1st
2013 1st if Bruins make SCF, 2013 2nd if they make ECF, 2013 3rd otherwise.

Terras was against giving up so much for one player, which I can appreciate - but the blueline would just be disgusting, and the prospect pool would still include one of Spooner/Koko to go along with Knight, Ferlin, Kampfer, Caron, etc.

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Boychuk
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer


edit: Lesspanic - lots of talk that Gleason and Ruutu are being shopped as a package, and I agree, those kinds of players would fit here very well.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 26 January 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[cshea]

I like that Suter deal. My only change is that I would make the 2013 pick conditional based on Suter re-signing in Boston. That deal seems pretty much in line with similar deadline deals for upcoming UFA's.

This team doesn't have many holes, but I think they could use a legit #2 to take some heat off both Chara and Seidenberg. If they could extend Suter, he'd easily slide into the #1 spot when Chara's done.

[Riles335]

I like that Suter deal. My only change is that I would make the 2013 pick conditional based on Suter re-signing in Boston. That deal seems pretty much in line with similar deadline deals for upcoming UFA's.

This team doesn't have many holes, but I think they could use a legit #2 to take some heat off both Chara and Seidenberg. If they could extend Suter, he'd easily slide into the #1 spot when Chara's done.

I agree with everything here but it might be a while before Chara is done. He still has 5 years left on his contract extension of 7 years. There is a real possibility that even after these 7 years that Chara might be back for more as he is a freak when it comes to the physical and physiological being of being an NHL player. I would LOVE to have Suter as he would easily push back Seidenberg, Ference, and co. back a spot in the lineup to their actual number pairing. Right now Chara makes Seidenberg and co. one better than they are in my opinion, on all other teams Seidenberg would be a 3 and Ference a 4+, not 2 and 3 but we don't actually have to worry about that because we do in fact have Chara and Suter would make this already impressive dcorps all that much more impressive.

[Scoops Bolling]

As much as I like the idea of pursuing Suter, I'm not sure we could retain him and I wouldn't want to give up that much for a rental. Is it actually possible that they could resign him long term despite the cap likely going down and the forwards we're going to need to re-sign over the next few offseasons? This current Bruins team has shown how valuable guys on entry level deals and restricted FA deals are...keeping more in the pipeline is really important to keeping the team competitive going forward.

Nonetheless, the idea of a possible future top 4 of Chara, Suter, Seidenberg, Hamilton is...awesome.

Edited by Scoops Bolling, 26 January 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[PedroSpecialK]

The thought of re-signing Suter in conjunction with Hamilton coming up has me drooling. Replace Boychuk with Hamilton in that lineup and you've got three top-pairing defensemen and one guy who's likely to become one.

That's a good call, it's not a rental like Kaberle in the sense that almost regardless of Suter's production, the B's would be looking to sign him long-term - and with Thomas's NMC expiring on July 1, it opens the door to shed some money should Suter be too pricey to keep both. I'll take a look at the cap situation for that - from my last post in the Cap thread:

For next year, they have the following roster signed at $56,584,642.53 including Savard's contract and Eaves' buyout, and assuming $2.7m AAV for Rask and $1.3m AAV for Pouliot or his replacement:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Pouliot (RFA) - Peverley - Caron
XX - XX - XX
XX

Chara - Kampfer
Seidenberg - XX
Ference - McQuaid

Thomas
Rask (RFA)


That leaves about $8m to fill five spots, four of which can be filled for a combined $4m or so in by re-signing Paille/Campbell/Thornton and qualifying MacDermid. The remaining $4m for a defenseman sounds good to me is a buzzkill given my miscalculations but is still very manageable.

Swapping that d-corps for:

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Hamilton
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer

and assuming:

- a cap number similar to Chara's $6.917 for Suter (say $7m)
- the same $2.7m for Rask and $1.3m for Pouliot
- hard bonuses for Seguin/Hamilton/Kampfer
- $4m combined for Paille/Campbell/Thornton
- MacDermid qualified and brought up as the 13th forward

that gives them a cap number of exactly $64,250,000 for this lineup:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Pouliot - Peverley - Caron
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
MacDermid

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Hamilton
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer

Thomas
Rask


If something's gotta give, I could see Thomas being moved and his salary going to retaining Kelly and signing a backup.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 26 January 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Riles335]

- the same $2.7m for Rask

This is a big one. Rask is headed for RFA and he will be a big time target for a lot of teams in the NHL like the Tampa Bay Lightning. With the interest around the league for a guy like Rask presumably high, the thought of an offer sheet his way scares me. If a team decides to throw an offer sheet Tuukka's way, that could put the Bruins in a tough position to pay top bucks. Unless the Bruins are able to resign Rask before he hits the market, I still don't think that the Bruins would think twice at resigning Rask but I think there is a real possibility that the Rask hit heading into next year and down the road will be higher than 2.7. If that is the case, I think that the Bruins will in fact deal Thomas to shed salary and hand over the reigns to Tuukka. With all this, the flexibility could be a bit more stiff to retain players x and z while extending Suter.

[cshea]

I don't think there is that big of a market for Rask. With the exception of Philly, teams are saving money in net and spending the majority of their cap on forwards and defenseman. It's the Detroit model. Teams are finding cheap, serviceable options instead of sinking big money in net. Washington picked up Vokoun on the cheap, San Jose went with Niemi fairly cheaply a year ago, Ottawa snagged Anderson, Elliott to St. Louis, etc. The market for goalies isn't as big as some people think it is. I'm sure there are teams that will be interested in Tuukka, but I don't think the B's are in danger of him gettin Penner/Vanek'd over the summer.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

I was having the Suter debate with Terras the other night. I would fork over a considerable prospect/pick package for him, while giving Nashville the option of taking Corvo as they will be a playoff team yet again. I'd give up:

One of Spooner/Khokhlachev
One of Warsofsky/Sauve
Corvo
2012 1st
2013 1st if Bruins make SCF, 2013 2nd if they make ECF, 2013 3rd otherwise.

Terras was against giving up so much for one player, which I can appreciate - but the blueline would just be disgusting, and the prospect pool would still include one of Spooner/Koko to go along with Knight, Ferlin, Kampfer, Caron, etc.

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Boychuk
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer


edit: Lesspanic - lots of talk that Gleason and Ruutu are being shopped as a package, and I agree, those kinds of players would fit here very well.

Realisticly I would be happy with Gleason/Toni Lydman and Ruttu.

But I am with you. A Suter/Webber deal would make this team an absolute Juggernaught.

However, I don't think there is a way that deal doesn't get done without including Hamilton. Poile has to have something tangible to show his fan base after dealing one of two cornerstone blue liners. A package of picks and prospects with little buzz and Corvo won't be enough in my opinion. I don't want to give up Hamilton obviously. I just think that unless he is included the Preds look else where to deal.



edit-me fail English.

Edited by Curtis_Lesspanic, 26 January 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[timlinin8th]

Teams are finding cheap, serviceable options instead of sinking big money in net. Washington picked up Vokoun on the cheap, San Jose went with Niemi fairly cheaply a year ago, Ottawa snagged Anderson, Elliott to St. Louis, etc. The market for goalies isn't as big as some people think it is.

I see your point, but I don't know if those moves were made because of the lack of net options out there... A team that is a goaltender away from making a deep run (there seem to be a few) might be willing to put in an offer sheet BECAUSE of the lack of quality options.

[PedroSpecialK]

Realisticly I would be happy with Gleason/Toni Lydman and Ruttu.

But I am with you. A Suter/Webber deal would make this team an absolute Juggernaught.

However, I don't think there is a way that deal doesn't get done without including Hamilton. Poile has to have something tangible to show his fan base after dealing one of two cornerstone blue liners. A package of picks and prospects with little buzz and Corvo won't be enough in my opinion. I don't want to give up Hamilton obviously. I just think that unless he is included the Preds look else where to deal.

I tend to agree with you, Poile is too smart a GM to give up one of Suter/Weber without getting a defender at least on the level of Gudbranson/Ekman-Larsson/Hamilton in return.

But I can dream, dammit. If a deal for Suter is on the table without Hamilton or Seguin on the table, I don't see a whole lot of combinations of picks/players I could turn down.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

I tend to agree with you, Poile is too smart a GM to give up one of Suter/Weber without getting a defender at least on the level of Gudbranson/Ekman-Larsson/Hamilton in return.

But I can dream, dammit. If a deal for Suter is on the table without Hamilton or Seguin on the table, I don't see a whole lot of combinations of picks/players I could turn down.

100% agree. If Hamilton was off the table I'd let Poile treat the rest of the orgainization like the old Wendy's Superbar. Help yourself to extra pudding!

[ThreeIfBaerga]

I know he's not hurting Calgary from a salary perspective ($600,000) but would a guy like Tim Jackman be the type of guy the Bs may want as a depth defenseman and insurance for someone like McQuaid? He's an UFA after this season. Could anyone see him as the Hnidy of 2012, providing blueline depth as the playoffs progress?

I know he's not bringing a ton to the table but I have always liked his game and I feel like he'd be a nice fit in Boston with his willingness to play a physical brand of hockey and defend his teammates against any takers.

[Haunted]

I know he's not hurting Calgary from a salary perspective ($600,000) but would a guy like Tim Jackman be the type of guy the Bs may want as a depth defenseman and insurance for someone like McQuaid? He's an UFA after this season. Could anyone see him as the Hnidy of 2012, providing blueline depth as the playoffs progress?

I know he's not bringing a ton to the table but I have always liked his game and I feel like he'd be a nice fit in Boston with his willingness to play a physical brand of hockey and defend his teammates against any takers.

This is definitely the type of low-cost defensive depth move I want to see them make regardless of anything else. We've seen how important it is to have 7-8 NHL-level defensemen for the playoffs and while a Jackman-type doesn't exactly send shivers down anyone's spine, I think they're invaluable to have as insuarance.

[cshea]

I see your point, but I don't know if those moves were made because of the lack of net options out there... A team that is a goaltender away from making a deep run (there seem to be a few) might be willing to put in an offer sheet BECAUSE of the lack of quality options.

I just think there has been a shift in philosophy around the league regarding goalies. It used to be that you needed an elite goalie to win a Cup, but teams are now finding they can contend without an expensive, elite goalie. Other than Thomas-Luongo (and Luongo is debateable) there haven't been many elite goalie matchups in the finals. Chicago won with a pretty pedestrian Anti Niemi. Detroit got there twice with the corpses of Dom Hasek and Chris Osgood. Philly got their with an AHL calibur goalie in Michael Leighton, and Brian Boucher. The Penguins have Fleury, but I wouldn't call him elite. I just don't think teams are out there looking for goalies to put themselves over the top anymore, unless you're Philly who has never figured out the goaltending position.

[PedroSpecialK]

Problem with Jackman is he's a right winger but I agree that having those types to keep guys like Kampfer from being forced into meaningful minutes when the real season begins is very useful. I still think part of the available cap space will go to a guy like McCabe nearer the deadline, with perhaps a physical guy like Steve Staios or Sheldon Brookbank being brought in as well. They have the cap space, may as well carry the insurance once the deadline's passed.

[cshea]

One name I hadn't thought of, but I think he'd be on the B's radar- Jordan Leopold. He's signed through next year at a pretty reasonable $3 million. He'd be a pretty significant upgrade on Corvo. Pretty solid second unit PP guy, and good in his own end. Cap hit fits in nicely, and I'd imagine the acquisition cost wouldn't be much more than a 2nd/3rd round pick. Plus he was on that Cup finals Flames team that Chiarelli loves.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

Problem with Jackman is he's a right winger but I agree that having those types to keep guys like Kampfer from being forced into meaningful minutes when the real season begins is very useful. I still think part of the available cap space will go to a guy like McCabe nearer the deadline, with perhaps a physical guy like Steve Staios or Sheldon Brookbank being brought in as well. They have the cap space, may as well carry the insurance once the deadline's passed.

I would have no problem with seeing what a Scott Hannan would cost if the Flames became sellers. Useful roleplayers are always helpful in the post season and a prorated 1 million dollar cap hit would not prevent this team from making a bigger move.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

Plus he was on that Cup finals Flames team that Chiarelli loves.

So was Regehr! (I think Leopold was his D-pairing) Oh to dream!!!!!

[BoSoxFink]

So was Regehr! (I think Leopold was his D-pairing) Oh to dream!!!!!

God dammit Curtis........

[Haunted]

Problem with Jackman is he's a right winger but I agree that having those types to keep guys like Kampfer from being forced into meaningful minutes when the real season begins is very useful. I still think part of the available cap space will go to a guy like McCabe nearer the deadline, with perhaps a physical guy like Steve Staios or Sheldon Brookbank being brought in as well. They have the cap space, may as well carry the insurance once the deadline's passed.

I am dumb. But yeah, agree with the rest

[The Four Peters]

The thought of re-signing Suter in conjunction with Hamilton coming up has me drooling. Replace Boychuk with Hamilton in that lineup and you've got three top-pairing defensemen and one guy who's likely to become one.

That's a good call, it's not a rental like Kaberle in the sense that almost regardless of Suter's production, the B's would be looking to sign him long-term - and with Thomas's NMC expiring on July 1, it opens the door to shed some money should Suter be too pricey to keep both. I'll take a look at the cap situation for that - from my last post in the Cap thread:

[/size][/font][/color]

Swapping that d-corps for:

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Hamilton
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer

and assuming:

- a cap number similar to Chara's $6.917 for Suter (say $7m)
- the same $2.7m for Rask and $1.3m for Pouliot
- hard bonuses for Seguin/Hamilton/Kampfer
- $4m combined for Paille/Campbell/Thornton
- MacDermid qualified and brought up as the 13th forward

that gives them a cap number of exactly $64,250,000 for this lineup:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Pouliot - Peverley - Caron
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
MacDermid

Chara - Seidenberg
Suter - Hamilton
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer

Thomas
Rask


If something's gotta give, I could see Thomas being moved and his salary going to retaining Kelly and signing a backup.

Is that including Savard's LTIR exemption? They're still not even using that, the amount of potential cap space they have this season is stupid.

So was Regehr! (I think Leopold was his D-pairing) Oh to dream!!!!!

Regehr is terrible. He's signed to a horrific contract and has TWO points in 44 games this year. I know he's not an offensive guy but even McQuaid has stumbled into 7 points this year. He fits right in on the Buffalo Overpaid Disappointments.

[PedroSpecialK]

Omitted Savard entirely, but to get to $4m under the cap so they can LTIR him, they can demote Seguin and Kampfer until the first cap day of the year then bring them up.

[erfus]

Likely Sellers that will deal with Boston
Eastern Conference:
Winnipeg (10th place, 5 pts behind NJ in 9th)
Carolina
Buffalo
NYI

Western:
Columbus
Edmonton
Anaheim
(other teams are within 3 pts of Minnesota in 8th)

It could be slim pickings if Chiarelli is indeed truthful in saying he doesn't want to subtract off the NHL roster. Bubble teams would likely want a Corvo or a Boychuk back to keep hope alive. There should be plenty of rental depth players available from Jim Slater, Derek MacKenzie, Sami Pahlsson, Jay Pandolfo, Frans Nielson, Johnny Oduya, Radek Martinek, Mark Eaton etc. Those guys you could probably get for a song.

I'd still prefer to see a more significant addition or 2, but especially a defenseman. I'm not worried about the cap for next season given they have Savard's LTIR space, the ability to deal Thomas, and the majority of the core of the team locked up. (Is there a bonus cushion this season? I didn't think there was. If not, that would eliminate carry-over penalties like the one they carry this season) While I like the 4th liners they have, I think they can get equivalent production for the same amount of money they're dishing out this season. Whether they need to replace Paille/Campbell with Slater or something similar. Using the depth guys in the system is another obvious cap saver (Hamill, MacDermid, Arniel, Sauve, Spooner, Knight). I'd love to see the Bs take a shot at a Nashville defenseman, but I agree it's a longshot. I hope they try for a big splash though, I think they have enough cap flexibility to make it work and the assets to pull it off.

So in terms of a mid-size splash that doesn't raid the top tier of the farm system (but may require a 1st rd pick) that leads to someone like Visnovsky at 5.6m for next season. Or Mark Streit at 4.1m for next season. Preferrably someone with some PP ability. I wouldn't mind someone like Gleason or Bryan Allen, but I feel like that's more of what they already have.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

Is that including Savard's LTIR exemption? They're still not even using that, the amount of potential cap space they have this season is stupid.

If they don't win the cup and have a truckload of cap room be prepared to hear the "JJ is still cheap!" cries, rightly or wrongly.

Regehr is terrible. He's signed to a horrific contract and has TWO points in 44 games this year. I know he's not an offensive guy but even McQuaid has stumbled into 7 points this year. He fits right in on the Buffalo Overpaid Disappointments.

I was kidding. But lets not go crazy. He's being used by Ruff to cover the top lines for an indifferent team and is only on the books for 4 million through next season. If that contract is "horrific" avert your eyes when reviewing the deal James Wisniewski inked.

[FL4WL3SS]

I agree with everything here but it might be a while before Chara is done. He still has 5 years left on his contract extension of 7 years. There is a real possibility that even after these 7 years that Chara might be back for more as he is a freak when it comes to the physical and physiological being of being an NHL player. I would LOVE to have Suter as he would easily push back Seidenberg, Ference, and co. back a spot in the lineup to their actual number pairing. Right now Chara makes Seidenberg and co. one better than they are in my opinion, on all other teams Seidenberg would be a 3 and Ference a 4+, not 2 and 3 but we don't actually have to worry about that because we do in fact have Chara and Suter would make this already impressive dcorps all that much more impressive.

Seidenberg would not be a #3 on all other teams, I"m not sure what fantasy world you're living in.

He's a legit and very good #2 defenseman. The problem is that we need to keep him and Chara on separate pairings because they're our 2 best defenseman and they need to hold the hands of Corvo/Boychuk/Ference. Suter would very comfortably slip in next to Chara, but not because Seidenberg can't, but because it's better to keep them on separate pairings.

[FL4WL3SS]

If they don't win the cup and have a truckload of cap room be prepared to hear the "JJ is still cheap!" cries, rightly or wrongly.

You're kidding, right? I don't even know how you come to this conclusion.

In no way is the Bruins organization being cheap by managing the cap wonderfully this season. Additionally, they've been at the cap limit every year since it was implemented.

[PedroSpecialK]

I think Steve Dillard would still be saying Jacobs is cheap.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

You're kidding, right? I don't even know how you come to this conclusion.

In no way is the Bruins organization being cheap by managing the cap wonderfully this season. Additionally, they've been at the cap limit every year since it was implemented.

Did you hear the reception JJ got at the freaking cup parade? There are people out there who will still grasp at any straw to bitch about him. If this team finishes the season with a sizable amount of money availible they will bitch and be loud about it. I said rightly or wrongly for a reason. If the B's make an honest effort to add upon a already championship caliber team most reasonable fans will have no issues.

[Riles335]

Seidenberg would not be a #3 on all other teams, I"m not sure what fantasy world you're living in.

He's a legit and very good #2 defenseman. The problem is that we need to keep him and Chara on separate pairings because they're our 2 best defenseman and they need to hold the hands of Corvo/Boychuk/Ference. Suter would very comfortably slip in next to Chara, but not because Seidenberg can't, but because it's better to keep them on separate pairings.

Excuse me for the way I posted that...I did state my point wrong.

To me, Seidenberg is a very sturdy defense that is very good at times. I do think that Seidenberg was propelled last year in the playoffs playing a long side Chara. I did write this poorly in my previous post but personally, for me to feel comfortable about a championship defensive corps, I would like Seidenberg as my number 3. That was the point I was trying to make, my apologies. Like I said, he is very sturdy and very good at times but there are also times in which he makes mistakes and always isn't the rock we saw him as in last years playoffs. I am not saying that I don't like Seidenberg as my number two defenseman but it would make me feel a whole hell of a lot better if Seidenberg was slated as your number 3 defenseman. That way you could have Chara, Suter, Seidenberg locking down your three defensive pairings which would be very good and very scary.

I understand that we won the Cup last year with the same exact defensive corps (minus Kaberle plus Corvo but I view them in the same) but there is definitely room for upgrade. Thomas saved our asses last year and made our defensive core looking really, really good. If it is possible in landing Suter, I would LOVE to see a defensive corps of:

Chara - Boychuk
Suter - Ference
Seidenberg - McQuaid

We all saw how great Boychuk was last year when he was playing with Chara mid season and I would love to see him back along side Chara to propel his game. Suter and Ference would make for a tremendous, rock solid pairing that would be able to skate and jump up into plays. Seidenberg and McQuaid would be a mean and nasty pairing that would eat off of other teams opposing forwards.

At the expensive of Hamilton? I don't think so but I would 100 percent give it a though. Anybody else to get Suter? Hell yes.

[Riles335]

Come playoff time I would think about putting Seidenberg back along side Chara to once again recreate that shutdown pairing but those three pairings has me drooling. If you enter the playoffs with Chara and Seidenberg you can get back to the chemistry of Ference and McQuaid with Suter lining up along side Boychuk. There would be a lot of possibilities with this group as it would possess a tremendous pool of size, skating, and offensive and defensive ability.

Edited by Riles335, 26 January 2012 - 03:34 PM.

[FL4WL3SS]

Excuse me for the way I posted that...I did state my point wrong.

To me, Seidenberg is a very sturdy defense that is very good at times. I do think that Seidenberg was propelled last year in the playoffs playing a long side Chara. I did write this poorly in my previous post but personally, for me to feel comfortable about a championship defensive corps, I would like Seidenberg as my number 3. That was the point I was trying to make, my apologies. Like I said, he is very sturdy and very good at times but there are also times in which he makes mistakes and always isn't the rock we saw him as in last years playoffs. I am not saying that I don't like Seidenberg as my number two defenseman but it would make me feel a whole hell of a lot better if Seidenberg was slated as your number 3 defenseman. That way you could have Chara, Suter, Seidenberg locking down your three defensive pairings which would be very good and very scary.

I understand that we won the Cup last year with the same exact defensive corps (minus Kaberle plus Corvo but I view them in the same) but there is definitely room for upgrade. Thomas saved our asses last year and made our defensive core looking really, really good. If it is possible in landing Suter, I would LOVE to see a defensive corps of:

Chara - Boychuk
Suter - Ference
Seidenberg - McQuaid

We all saw how great Boychuk was last year when he was playing with Chara mid season and I would love to see him back along side Chara to propel his game. Suter and Ference would make for a tremendous, rock solid pairing that would be able to skate and jump up into plays. Seidenberg and McQuaid would be a mean and nasty pairing that would eat off of other teams opposing forwards.

At the expensive of Hamilton? I don't think so but I would 100 percent give it a though. Anybody else to get Suter? Hell yes.

Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing? What are you smoking - no seriously, what are you smoking, I want some.

So basically you'd rather play Boychuk 20-22 minutes a night over Seidenberg and you expect us to take you seriously? By the way, I think we'd all like Seidenberg playing as the #3 defenseman because that would mean we have a 1A and 1B defenseman playing ahead of him, but then again any team would like to have that luxury and yes, that would be a luxury. Look around the league at some of the #2 defenseman then come back to the conversation. You're completely underrating Seidenberg here with this belief that there is this magical #2 defenseman out there that is 1) Available and 2) would be better than Seidenberg. What you're really looking for is a 1B to Chara's 1A, but then again who wouldn't want that.

[FL4WL3SS]

I"m still laughing at Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing. That's hysterical.

I'm starting to question if you know what #3 defenseman means.

[BoSoxFink]

Come playoff time I would think about putting Seidenberg back along side Chara to once again recreate that shutdown pairing but those three pairings has me drooling. If you enter the playoffs with Chara and Seidenberg you can get back to the chemistry of Ference and McQuaid with Suter lining up along side Boychuk. There would be a lot of possibilities with this group as it would possess a tremendous pool of size, skating, and offensive and defensive ability.

I am sorry but as FLAW stated, you would never put Seidenberg on the third pairing. I understand what you are trying to do in breaking up their top 3 defenseman and placing them with the weaker d men, but even in the regular season that would make no sense as you would be reducing Seidenberg's minutes way too much. If they were able to pull off a trade for Suter I think the best thing they could do would be the below.

Chara - Boychuck
Suter - Seidenberg
Ference - McQuaid
Kampfer/Corvo

In the playoffs you may go back to putting Seids with Chara again to recreate the magic of last year, but at least in the regular season I think I would go with the above pairings.

[Titoschew]

If they don't win the cup and have a truckload of cap room be prepared to hear the "JJ is still cheap!" cries, rightly or wrongly.

[cshea]

Eh, I don't know. It's sort of pointless to be discussion lines and pairings for hypothetical trade, but I think a case can be made for Seidenberg on the "3rd" pairing. Just because he's listed as on the 3rd pair doesn't mean his ice time would be below the 4-6 guys. You could spread out the big 3 so that 1 guy is on the ice at all times, or you could stack the top 2 pairings in crunch time. Plus you add in PP and PK time.

Seidenberg was #2 in TOI last year for the B's but never played on the "first" pairing until the playoffs.

[FL4WL3SS]

I'm sorry, but the objective isn't to see how thinly you can spread your best players hoping that they'll prop up the other guys. You stack your top 4 and play them 23-25 minutes a night and use your 3rd pairing as depth. Playing Ference and Boychuk with Chara and Suter while Seidenberg gets put with McQuaid is just poor lineup construction, plain and simple.

[BoSoxFink]

Eh, I don't know. It's sort of pointless to be discussion lines and pairings for hypothetical trade, but I think a case can be made for Seidenberg on the "3rd" pairing. Just because he's listed as on the 3rd pair doesn't mean his ice time would be below the 4-6 guys. You could spread out the big 3 so that 1 guy is on the ice at all times, or you could stack the top 2 pairings in crunch time. Plus you add in PP and PK time.

Seidenberg was #2 in TOI last year for the B's but never played on the "first" pairing until the playoffs.

yes, but he never played on the third pairing either. The whole point of a third pairing is to put your weakest guys there and don't let them see the ice nearly as much as the first two lines, basically they are there to just give a break to the first two pairings. IOn reality you want them out there as short a time as possible. Rember Kaberle in the playoffs last year and his ice time? In reality Seidenberg would still have his line time greatly reduced and that would not be good for the team.

[FL4WL3SS]

yes, but he never played on the third pairing either. The whole point of a third pairing is to put your weakest guys there and don't let them see the ice nearly as much as the first two lines, basically they are there to just give a break to the first two pairings. IOn reality you want them out there as short a time as possible. Rember Kaberle in the playoffs last year and his ice time? In reality Seidenberg would still have his line time greatly reduced and that would not be good for the team.

Well no, this isn't true at all either. Your 3rd pairing should be a depth pairing, but you should still have trust in them and they should still be good. What's the point of having a 3rd pairing if you have to avoid using them? Defense is much different than forward - a team can get away with a throw away 4th line that is used 6-7 mins a night to give the top 3 lines a break, but you need your 3rd pairing to play 15-18 minutes a night and you need to trust them.

Having said that, you don't stick a quality guy like Seidenberg to the 3rd pairing just to get that parity on all 3 pairings. You stack your top 2 pairings first and then worry about your 3rd pairing. If you get a guy like Suter it's not to bump a guy like Seidenberg down, it's to bump a guy like Boychuk/Corvo/Ference down.

[BoSoxFink]

Well no, this isn't true at all either. Your 3rd pairing should be a depth pairing, but you should still have trust in them and they should still be good. What's the point of having a 3rd pairing if you have to avoid using them? Defense is much different than forward - a team can get away with a throw away 4th line that is used 6-7 mins a night to give the top 3 lines a break, but you need your 3rd pairing to play 15-18 minutes a night and you need to trust them.

Having said that, you don't stick a quality guy like Seidenberg to the 3rd pairing just to get that parity on all 3 pairings. You stack your top 2 pairings first and then worry about your 3rd pairing. If you get a guy like Suter it's not to bump a guy like Seidenberg down, it's to bump a guy like Boychuk/Corvo/Ference down.

Yea I made it sound worse than what I meant. If you look at the average ice time for the Bruins in the playoffs their third pairing which would be considered McQuaid and Kaberle averaged 13 minutes and 16 minutes respectively. Kaberle was higher most likely due to his PP time. So we can probably give them both about 13 minutes average.

Now I am not saying they don't have at least some trust in them, 13 minutes out of a 60 minute game is only a little more than 1/5 of a hockey game. Compared to the second line average of 20 minutes between Ference and Boychuk and nearly 28 minutes for Chara and Seidenberg it stands true what I say. They really avoid using the third line as much as they possibly can. They no doubt are depth guys and have to be at least somewhat useful, but in reality on most teams they are time fillers, because you could not expect the first and second line pairings to play 30 minutes each per game.

[PedroSpecialK]

Get on my team you sexy-ass power forward

Here's a question a lot of contending NHL teams are asking today: IsBrenden Morrow of the Dallas Stars available for trade?
There is certainly some talk within the NHL community anticipating that Morrow "may" become available between now and the NHL trade deadline.
But the Stars are right in the thick of the playoff race, currently sitting in 10th place, just three points out of eighth and have played fewer games than any of the teams immediately in front of them.
Morrow has this season and one more with an annual cap hit of $4.1 million, and he has a no-trade clause.

[ForceAtHome]

I get the impression that either Suter is being undervalued here or Chara/Seidenberg are being overvalued. I think there's a very real chance that Suter would be the best defenseman on the Bruins going forward, and if not, damn close to it. I can't imagine Nashville would accept a package from Boston that didn't include Seguin (obviously off the table), Hamilton+, or something overwhelming in picks like three firsts.

Edit to add: I'm still not convinced that Nashville will even trade Suter, to be honest.

Edited by ForceAtHome, 26 January 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[Riles335]

Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing? What are you smoking - no seriously, what are you smoking, I want some.

So basically you'd rather play Boychuk 20-22 minutes a night over Seidenberg and you expect us to take you seriously? By the way, I think we'd all like Seidenberg playing as the #3 defenseman because that would mean we have a 1A and 1B defenseman playing ahead of him, but then again any team would like to have that luxury and yes, that would be a luxury. Look around the league at some of the #2 defenseman then come back to the conversation. You're completely underrating Seidenberg here with this belief that there is this magical #2 defenseman out there that is 1) Available and 2) would be better than Seidenberg. What you're really looking for is a 1B to Chara's 1A, but then again who wouldn't want that.

I"m still laughing at Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing. That's hysterical.

I'm starting to question if you know what #3 defenseman means.

I am not sure where all your hate comes from but it would be better left behind so we can talk sports. If you are still laughing at my pairings, then you in fact live a sad life. Lets leave your sideswipes and angry out of this so we can talk sports in a proper manner.

Just because I listed Seidenberg as the third pairing doesn't mean I want him getting sub 20 minutes per night and Boychuk at 22 plus minutes a night. LIke I said, I think that ideally Seidenberg is a number 3 defenseman on a championship caliber team. Just because Seidenberg was our number two last year and we won the Stanley Cup doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. Last year the Bruins got a ton of lucky breaks (as every team needs) but were also one bounce away from losing in the first round and having many changes made to this franchise. There is room for improvement here.

To answer your questions regarding other teams and that there is someone available.

1) This conversation has nothing to do with other teams and what other teams have as their number 2 defenseman. There are a lot of crappy NHL teams out there right now so it does nobody any good to compare yourself to other teams around the league especially if you are in hopes of repeating as Cup champions.
2) There is a guy out there and we are discussing him as we speak. Ryan Suter is available and is better than Seidenberg. I would be more than happy to have Seidenberg as my number 2 defenseman going into the playoffs but I wouldn't be surprised to see the flaws of this defensive core shown because it will be really, really hard to have the type of goal tending we had last year, this year. There are multiple times last year in which the Bruins were saved by Thomas. It is very unlikely that we will see the 2011 Playoff Tim Thomas during the course of the 2012 Playoffs. He was just insanely good. So in fact there is someone out there that would in fact better the Bruins and slip ahead of Seidenberg because Suter is a much greater player than Seidenberg.

You also seem to have disregarded my second post saying that I would like to see Chara and Seidenberg come back together during the playoffs to recreate that shutdown pairing. Right now in the midst of the regular season, if they were to land Suter, it would be important to save the minutes of Chara and Seidenberg, and give minutes to Boychuk and McQuaid in hopes of bettering their game. This isn't a sprint, its a marathon and right now the best thing for Chara before the playoffs would be limited minutes. Additionally, to your point, there is something about breaking up your top rated defenseman and bettering your "depth" defenseman. We saw it last year when Chara paired with Boychuk for a good chunk of the season. Claude knew that come playoff time he would bring Chara and Seidenberg together but during the course of the marathon, he wanted to propell Boychuk. That is why I brought together the pairings of Chara/Boychuk, Suter/Ference, Seidenberg/Mcquaid during the regular season because with that defensive rotation you could in fact get away with giving everybody close to 20 minutes instead of running Chara at 23+ minutes a night. The fact that you would like to run Chara and Seidenberg up towards 23-25 minutes a night after a long, enduring 2011, with a shortened 2011-12 offseason, would be foolish.

There is a real chance that the Predators would listen to an offer of a Dougie Hamilton package. If I am the Bruins, with Chara and Tim Thomas as your backbone, you have to always be in a win now mode. The young guns on this team are nice and they are encouraging but the backbone and Cup talent on this team lays on Chara and Thomas. Ryan Suter is in fact only 26 and one of the best defenseman in the league, it would be hard to turn down an offer for him even if it is for Hamilton and others.

Edited by Riles335, 26 January 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[BoSoxFink]

I am not sure where all your hate comes from but it would be better left behind so we can talk sports. If you are still laughing at my pairings, then you in fact live a sad life.

Just because I listed Seidenberg as the third pairing doesn't mean I want him getting sub 20 minutes per night and Boychuk at 22 plus minutes a night. LIke I said, I think that ideally Seidenberg is a number 3 defenseman on a championship caliber team. Just because Seidenberg was our number two last year and we won the Stanley Cup doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. Last year the Bruins got a ton of lucky breaks (as every team needs) but were also one bounce away from losing in the first round and having many changes made to this franchise. There is room for improvement here.

To answer your questions regarding other teams and that there is someone available.

1) This conversation has nothing to do with other teams and what other teams have as their number 2 defenseman. There are a lot of crappy NHL teams out there right now so it does nobody any good to compare yourself to other teams around the league especially if you are in hopes of repeating as Cup champions.
2) There is a guy out there and we are discussing him as we speak. Ryan Suter is available and is better than Seidenberg. I would be more than happy to have Seidenberg as my number 2 defenseman going into the playoffs but I wouldn't be surprised to see the flaws of this defensive core shown because it will be really, really hard to have the type of goal tending we had last year, this year. There are multiple times last year in which the Bruins were saved by Thomas. It is very unlikely that we will see the 2011 Playoff Tim Thomas during the course of the 2012 Playoffs. He was just insanely good. So in fact there is someone out there that would in fact better the Bruins and slip ahead of Seidenberg because Suter is a much greater player than Seidenberg.

You also seem to have disregarded my second post saying that I would like to see Chara and Seidenberg come back together during the playoffs to recreate that shutdown pairing. Right now in the midst of the regular season, if they were to land Suter, it would be important to save the minutes of Chara and Seidenberg, and give minutes to Boychuk and McQuaid in hopes of bettering their game. This isn't a sprint, its a marathon and right now the best thing for Chara before the playoffs would be limited minutes. Additionally, to your point, there is something about breaking up your top rated defenseman and bettering your "depth" defenseman. We saw it last year when Chara paired with Boychuk for a good chunk of the season. Claude knew that come playoff time he would bring Chara and Seidenberg together but during the course of the marathon, he wanted to propell Boychuk. That is why I brought together the pairings of Chara/Boychuk, Suter/Ference, Seidenberg/Mcquaid during the regular season because with that defensive rotation you could in fact get away with giving everybody close to 20 minutes instead of running Chara at 23+ minutes a night. The fact that you would like to run Chara and Seidenberg up towards 23-25 minutes a night after a long, enduring 2011, with a shortened 2011-12 offseason, would be foolish.

There is a real chance that the Predators would listen to an offer of a Dougie Hamilton package. If I am the Bruins, with Chara and Tim Thomas as your backbone, you have to always be in a win now mode. The young guns on this team are nice and they are encouraging but the backbone and Cup talent on this team lays on Chara and Thomas. Ryan Suter is in fact only 26 and one of the best defenseman in the league, it would be hard to turn down an offer for him even if it is for Hamilton and others.

Don't mind FLAWLESS he's just a tool and is angry that his mother whores herself out all the time.

However I still agree with him and disagree with you. The Bruins already split their average ice time between the 3 pairings well enough in the regular season. While I understand your point about wanting to reduce Chara's minutes, I don't think it is as big a deal as you make it out to be as he is a freak of nature and has been playing minutes like this for years now. I still don't think it makes sense to put Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing. In the end you would want guys like Chara and Suter and Seidenberg on the ice more than Ference/McQuaid and Boychuk. To give those guys equal time to the top players is counter productive. It would be like saying that Thornton/Campbell and Paille should get the same ice time as Bergeron/Seguin and Marchand. It really doesn't make sense.

[cshea]

I get the impression that either Suter is being undervalued here or Chara/Seidenberg are being overvalued. I think there's a very real chance that Suter would be the best defenseman on the Bruins going forward, and if not, damn close to it. I can't imagine Nashville would accept a package from Boston that didn't include Seguin (obviously off the table), Hamilton+, or something overwhelming in picks like three firsts.

Edit to add: I'm still not convinced that Nashville will even trade Suter, to be honest.

Suter a UFA. If they trade him, presumably he has told them he won't re-sign in Nashville. Thus the acquiring team has to assume he's a rental. In now way, shape or form does he get Seguin, Hamilton + from the Bruins, or anyone for that matter. That's a ridiculous package, I wouldn't trade that for anyone in the league. Especially a rental.

Chris Pronger is the closest comp I can come up with, as #1 defenseman don't move often. Pronger was traded (essentially twice) for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid and draft picks (Philly gave up 2 firsts, I don't recall what picks Anaheim sent to Edmonton in the first Pronger trade). I think a Suter trade would be similar to something like that, probably less as Pronger was a Norris caliber defenseman which I don't think Suter is just yet (although that may because he's overshadowed by Weber).

[The Four Peters]

I took FAH to be saying it would take Seguin or Hamilton+, not both combined.

[cshea]

Ah yeah, I read that wrong.

Carry on.

[Riles335]

Don't mind FLAWLESS he's just a tool and is angry that his mother whores herself out all the time.

However I still agree with him and disagree with you. The Bruins already split their average ice time between the 3 pairings well enough in the regular season. While I understand your point about wanting to reduce Chara's minutes, I don't think it is as big a deal as you make it out to be as he is a freak of nature and has been playing minutes like this for years now. I still don't think it makes sense to put Seidenberg on the 3rd pairing. In the end you would want guys like Chara and Suter and Seidenberg on the ice more than Ference/McQuaid and Boychuk. To give those guys equal time to the top players is counter productive. It would be like saying that Thornton/Campbell and Paille should get the same ice time as Bergeron/Seguin and Marchand. It really doesn't make sense.

With this possible defensive group, it would be hard pressed to find yourself distinguishing 1/2/3 pairings as opposed to 1 through 4 on the offensive lines. But like I said, I want Chara and Seidenberg back together for the playoffs. I would though, talking about acquiring Suter, would like to see the minutes balanced for the remainder of the regular season for a number of different reasons. We have already seen what this team can do when Chara, Seidenberg, Thomas, and company getting the major minutes and starts. It would be nice to see what this team can do when the minutes are limited because you never know if Chara goes down with injury. It would be nice to know that someone would be able to step up and have some significant minutes under their belt. But that is beside the point. I am not really calling for Seidenberg to be your 3rd pairing. I never really said that. I want Seidenberg to be my number 3 defenseman. For the regular season, it would be smart for the Bruins to carry out Chara/Boychuk, Suter/Ference, Seidenberg/McQuaid on the basis of balance. For the playoffs though, like I have said now three or four times, I would like to see that Chara/Seidenberg pairing back together for 24+ minutes a night with Suter and Ference/McQuaid/Boychuk...whatever it might be...getting number 21+ minutes a night. I would even call for Suter getting more minutes as he would push Chara for the best defeseman on this team. Not saying that he is better than Chara but Suter is a top 5 defeseman in this league. Originally though my three pairings were to balance out the minutes to ease the burden while still bringing a lethal defensive corps.

This is a marathon for right now, not a sprint. We can sprint come playoff time but for now it might be better of to limit the minutes to the 1-2-3's , and some minutes to the 5-6's like Boychuk and McQuaid. That is my point.

Edited by Riles335, 26 January 2012 - 06:06 PM.