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Whither Matsuzaka?


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#101 Div School Sox Fan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:54 PM

Every comment they are making seems to set up the idea that the elbow isn't where it should be.


Could you cite, please? I get the sense that Matsuzaka is still rehabbing from major surgery, and that it's rare for pitchers to be 100% effective less than a year removed from TJS, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that the surgery didn't take.

To be clear, I haven't read everything or heard every interview, so I'm asking which comments the Sox made that suggest Matsuzaka is damaged goods.

Edited by Div School Sox Fan, 14 May 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#102 smastroyin


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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

Things like this:

Overall, my body feels good, so that’s fine,” Matsuzaka said through interpreter Jeff Cutler, “but my elbow, depending on the day — some days it feels better than others. Right now, I’m hoping when I start, it hits the day I’m feeling good.”



Also, earlier in this very thread Bobby V is talking about his mechanics being wacky. If a guy is coming off of major arm surgery, I think you are set up pretty well to say that he still needs some rehab if his mechanics are not where they should be. And, if he continues to give up a run per inning, they will have pretty good evidence that he isn't ready in terms of the results. It's not a matter of damaged goods, it's a matter of he needs more time to build up the strength fully and not feel soreness, etc.

Now, implicit with my earlier post is the idea that Dice-K will not force their hand by stating that he is healthy and not accepting the optional assignment. My point though is that if he is amenable to some more starts in the minors, the paperwork side of things is not going to be a problem. If he is not amenable to that, then it's an entirely different story.

#103 Harry Hooper


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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

Speier:


The 31-year-old is slated to make two more rehab starts, one on Thursday and another on May 22. Technically, that will be the last time he can make a start under the 30-day window of his current assignment. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that the pitcher will be done pitching in the minors at that point.

With Matsuzaka returning from Tommy John surgery, if there is some kind of physical setback — whether inadequate arm strength or some physical malady with either his elbow or something else — then if the Sox shut down the right-hander for at least seven days, they can restart his rehab clock, thus permitting them to commence a new 30-day rehab assignment. While Major League Baseball has to approve the renewal of the rehab clock, it is typically either rubber-stamped or — so long as the issue is legitimate — approved after a brief phone call to clarify the need for the renewal of the rehab clock.



#104 MikeM

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:58 PM

If they have to waive him on the 23rd because he needs more time in the minors, what are the chances, really, that he gets claimed? And furthermore, what are the chances that the Sox would be happy to let someone claim him and pay him?


0% on the first, 100% on the latter.

The financial commitment there has been driving this "potential 2012 savior" bus since day 1 of this off season (or at least until it became rather clear we wouldn't be bringing in any legitimate/outside help). Pull back that obligatory curtain of optimism and what you have there is a bunch of wishful thinking/speculation imo, fueled heavily on an arguable need to glaze over those 2009-11 seasons. Combine that with actual player in question, and the whole rather unfriendly time frame squeeze that's in play here (ithe chances of a resign being nill, imo), and i'm personally not seeing a winning ticket in all this. Heck, if given the actual pre-season option, i doubt we'd have seen Ben take an outside flyer on this lottery ticket at even 1/5 of the current cost.

For me, Dice-K's value in the 2012 equation was situational at the start, with a stronger flip side potential that he'd play out to be a hindrance. For all the talk about him replacing Clay in the rotation, i don't see that happening. So if he ends up coming in, essentially at the expense of taking sample size starts away from the 24 year old we plan to simply hand the job back over to next winter (Doubront), i'm left projecting the latter atm.

Edited by MikeM, 15 May 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#105 trekfan55


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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

From PeteAbe, but several others have it too

Bobby Valentine said several times in several ways that he doesn't think Daisuke Matsuzaka is close to being ready ... http://www.sulia.com...?source=twitter


He still has two starts to make though, but this is very interesting to read.

More detail here:



  • #RedSox mgr Bobby Valentine said he has spoken to Matsuzaka and believes he is still searching for a proper delivery following his Tommy John surgery. "That's why I don't think he's close," Valentine said. "I'm not sure he's put his elbow situation behind him yet. I don't think he totally understands where he is with his elbow, which is very important."


Edited by trekfan55, 16 May 2012 - 04:50 PM.


#106 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:30 AM

Today's Globe has a column about Matsuzaka and how he doesn't seem to be ready to be activated after 2 more starts:

Daisuke Matsuzaka is scheduled to start for Pawtucket Thursday night in Durham, N.C., and again Tuesday in Norfolk, Va. That would give the righthander six starts in his minor league rehabilitation assignment, the equivalent of a full spring training. But Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine isn’t sure that will be enough to get Matsuzaka ready...

There has to be something else we can do,’’ Valentine said. “It just means we started it too soon. You can’t say, ‘Hey, the 30-day clock is done. Now the guy has to get into a major league game and get whacked.’ That doesn’t sound right to me.’’

Matsuzaka could defuse the situation by pitching well in his next two starts and proving he’s ready. If not, the Sox will have to figure out some sort of solution


The columnist ends with that "If not, the Sox will have to figure out some sort of solution" comment, without going into details.

Is there a solution, other than saying "he's still injured" and relying on the pitcher to confirm this without going the waiver route?

#107 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:02 AM

Is there a solution, other than saying "he's still injured" and relying on the pitcher to confirm this without going the waiver route?


No, that's pretty much it.

Unless he turns the corner in today's start, Matsuzaka will almost certainly agree with Cherington's suggestion that he's feeling soft-tissue soreness or stiffness somewhere. Then the team can shut him down for seven days, and he'll get another 30 days of rehab assignment to find a sufficient level of trust in his rebuilt body.

That's actually quite a good solution, so long as Buchholz' two most recent starts are harbingers of his future performance, as it gives Doubront and Bard the chance to get closer to their (unspoken) innings limit.

#108 Red(s)HawksFan


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 03:52 PM

@ScottLauber

Daisuke Matsuzaka got injection in right trap, won't make next rehab start #RedSox


Gotta assume this will shut him down long enough to reset the rehab clock and give him another 30 days.

#109 uncannymanny

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:05 PM

Rehab restart confirmed:

According to Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine after his team's 5-1 win over the Phillies Sunday, Daisuke Matsuzaka won't make what was scheduled to be his final rehab start, Tuesday, having received an injection in his ailing right trapezius muscle.


Because of the ailment, the Red Sox will be allowed to restart the pitcher's rehab clock after sitting out seven days. Matsuzaka's rehab assignment was slated to end Wednesday. According to Major League Baseball rules, the only way a player's rehab assignment can be extended if it can be proven to the league that there is a physical issue which has to be dealt with.


"He got another injection today in the right trap that's been bothering him for quite a while," Valentine told reporters, "and we got to make sure that's 100 percent before he's going out there again."


When speaking with the media Friday, Matsuzaka suggested his right elbow was in good health, but Saturday Valentine noted that the pitcher had been dealing with soreness in his trapezius muscle. It's an injury the righty has had to deal with as recently as spring training.


WEEI

#110 mauidano


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:26 PM

Phantom injury to enable the extension of rehab. Happens all the time in MLB. No big deal. Just wanted to give him bit more time.

#111 dwainw

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 07:49 PM

Wouldn't the injection indicate that there's at least somewhat of a legitimate health concern involved here? Somewhat misleading information, though, with DiceK saying his elbow is "in good health" and Bobby saying his trap has been bugging him for a while. It seems obvious that he's not fully recovered from his surgery, but whatever's going on, the faith that he can be a useful contributor this season is dwindling.

#112 TomRicardo


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

Wouldn't the injection indicate that there's at least somewhat of a legitimate health concern involved here? Somewhat misleading information, though, with DiceK saying his elbow is "in good health" and Bobby saying his trap has been bugging him for a while. It seems obvious that he's not fully recovered from his surgery, but whatever's going on, the faith that he can be a useful contributor this season is dwindling.


If the right trapezius muscle was any where near his elbow then sure. But sadly it is not...

#113 dwainw

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:28 PM

If the right trapezius muscle was any where near his elbow then sure. But sadly it is not...


Isn't all that stuff basically connected? I'm technically not a doctor, but I did learn that from a song once.

But seriously, what about the whole possibility of overcompensation affecting other muscles or joints, etc. etc. Yeah, I could be grasping at straws, but I'd like to think that his medical recovery is taking longer than expected rather than he's fully healed but sucking, because I'd love to include him as a legitimate part of our depth chart for the second half of the season. I'm also hoping while they were at it, they surgically cured his nibblitis.

#114 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:27 PM

Isn't all that stuff basically connected? I'm technically not a doctor, but I did learn that from a song once.

But seriously, what about the whole possibility of overcompensation affecting other muscles or joints, etc. etc. Yeah, I could be grasping at straws, but I'd like to think that his medical recovery is taking longer than expected rather than he's fully healed but sucking, because I'd love to include him as a legitimate part of our depth chart for the second half of the season. I'm also hoping while they were at it, they surgically cured his nibblitis.


Sigh. You know, it sure would be great if -- while giving Matsuzaka TJS -- they cubically transformed him, too.

In other news, there's nothing either unexpected or untoward in this announcement that would preclude him being a "legitimate part of our depth chart for the second half of the season" or even to delay his return from TJS beyond normal. He was on a considerably advanced timetable to start his rehab, after all.

DiceK probably got an anti-inflammatory shot in the trapezius, which is otherwise known as the neck. Matsuzaka already delayed one of his scheduled rehab starts due to a stiff neck. Ergo, this gives the Sox an iron-clad reason to reset Matsuzaka's rehab clock. That's all it is.

At least for now, there's no reason to be concerned.

#115 TomRicardo


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:40 PM

Isn't all that stuff basically connected? I'm technically not a doctor, but I did learn that from a song once.

But seriously, what about the whole possibility of overcompensation affecting other muscles or joints, etc. etc. Yeah, I could be grasping at straws, but I'd like to think that his medical recovery is taking longer than expected rather than he's fully healed but sucking, because I'd love to include him as a legitimate part of our depth chart for the second half of the season. I'm also hoping while they were at it, they surgically cured his nibblitis.


I mean yes technically it is connected but by that logic an anal fissure could also be connected to TJS. IT IS ALL CONNECTED.

Man, what a pain in the neck for DiceK.

#116 Pumpsie


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:27 PM

I mean yes technically it is connected but by that logic an anal fissure could also be connected to TJS. IT IS ALL CONNECTED.

Man, what a pain in the neck for DiceK.


Yeah, this isn't good. When you're getting a shot into your neck, that means that everything else they've tried (massage, physical therapy, chiropractics, muscle relaxants, etc.) has failed. If this shot fails to solve Dice-K's neck pain, then it could be surgery. He may have some kind of disintegration of a neck vertebra.

#117 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:04 AM

Yeah, this isn't good. When you're getting a shot into your neck, that means that everything else they've tried (massage, physical therapy, chiropractics, muscle relaxants, etc.) has failed. If this shot fails to solve Dice-K's neck pain, then it could be surgery. He may have some kind of disintegration of a neck vertebra.


No, stop this nonsense. The Sox needed a minor set-back, so they got one tailor-made.

MLB players often get shots to reduce pain and swelling -- it's just not usually in the team's best interest to mention it. When it's mentioned, it's usually because the fans would be in an uproar should a star misses two games in a row. Or it's mentioned in an offhand way by a roleplayer.

At this time, for this pitcher, it is in the team's best interest to publicize the medical treatment that justifies the team resetting Matsuzaka's rehab clock. It'll be called fil-in-the-blank-itis, but only because they can't get DiceK's window extended without something better than Hellenic Flu.

I'm not saying Matsuzaka's going to be lights-out when he returns, or that he doesn't have chronic neck pain. But to assume the worst case because of this report is to ignore the reality that even highly productive MLB players during good seasons get anti-inflammatory shots, taking a couple days off at most.

#118 Guapos Toenails

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

On May 10 my friend and I were watching DiceK throwing to his translator in right field. I don't know how long he was throwing out there, but after a while he grabbed his right shoulder and was hunched over in obvious pain. He and his translator literally ran back to the dugout and down the steps, DiceK grabbing his right shoulder the whole time. My friend who I was sitting with and I both saw this and remarked that it looked bad. His right arm was pretty much dangling down as if he had dislocated his right shoulder.

I debated whether or not to Tweet what I had just seen, but decided against it since he had just ran past most of the Boston media clutching his right shoulder in obvious pain. Someone else would mention it, right? (PeteAbe?...Ol' Hickory?...Bueller?)

I checked for the next day or so and nobody in the Boston media mentioned what I saw. So I just figured that DiceK was playing a joke on everybody.

WTF Boston media...?

Another WTF...I saw this on May 10. He pitched in games twice since then?

#119 fuzzy_one

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

... after a while he grabbed his right shoulder and was hunched over in obvious pain. He and his translator literally ran back to the dugout and down the steps, DiceK grabbing his right shoulder the whole time. My friend who I was sitting with and I both saw this and remarked that it looked bad. His right arm was pretty much dangling down as if he had dislocated his right shoulder.

If his right trap cramped up on him, he'd behave exactly as you described. I've had a trapezius cramp on me, and it's excruciating and temporarily debilitating. By itself, though, it's not structurally damaging, so it's quite possible to have a trap cramp and then go out and pitch a couple of days later.

Hopefully it's not linked to some sort of structural issue in his neck. Getting that extra rehab time looks perfect for all concerned.

#120 Guapos Toenails

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

By itself, though, it's not structurally damaging, so it's quite possible to have a trap cramp and then go out and pitch a couple of days later.


Good to know...still seems odd to me that nobody would have reported it...

#121 HriniakPosterChild

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:18 PM

Isn't all that stuff basically connected? I'm technically not a doctor, but I did learn that from a song once.

That was about bones. These are muscles. Completely different.

#122 tims4wins


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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

And...he is pitching in Pawtucket on Saturday

#123 mauidano


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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll bet it was more posturing than anything else to extend his rehab. The only way to buy extra time was to have an "injury". So Dice-K "did". Obviously he "feels" much better 'cause he's going out on Saturday!

#124 redsoxstiff


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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:07 PM

When he is ready...Valintine will get enough or more out of him to take a regular turn in the rotation...

I've been disenchanted by Buchholz ...I am sorely tempted to spell his name with one h...

#125 NDame616


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Posted 26 May 2012 - 06:57 PM

Mike Fine@mikesofine
Daisuke in Pawtucket: 5 IP, 0 R, 1 H, 1 BB, 2 K, 56 pitches

56 pitchers in 5 innings certainly isn't very "Daisuke-like" but it looks like he threw well.

#126 mabrowndog


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:25 PM

Tonight through 5 innings: 2 H, 1 ER, 4 K, 0 BB, 69 pitches, 46 strikes. His last inning was 11 pitches, 7 strikes. He's back out there for the top of the 6th.

Both hits by Lew Ford (1st-inning solo HR, 4th-inning single), and he's been tattooing the ball since joining Norfolk (.393 BA, 1.037 OPS in 59 PA over 12G).

EDIT - Retires one more batter in the 6th (line-out to RF) and he's replaced by Alex Wilson. Final count 76 pitches, 51 strikes.

"Topped out at 94, utilized off-speed more (76 pitches)" per Kevin Pereira

Edited by mabrowndog, 31 May 2012 - 07:34 PM.


#127 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:34 PM

Tonight through 5 innings: 2 H, 1 ER, 4 K, 0 BB, 69 pitches, 46 strikes. His last inning was 11 pitches, 7 strikes. He's back out there for the top of the 6th.


So he's given up one walk in the two games since his rehab restarted? That's SSS, but encouraging nonetheless.

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 31 May 2012 - 07:35 PM.


#128 mabrowndog


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

Agreed. Some more notes from Matt Huegel (@MattHuegelSP)

* Daisuke gives up a home run on his 7th pitch of the game to number 2 batter Lew Ford. 90 mph fastball.

* Threw 3 offspeed pitches in first inning. K'ed Bill Hall swinging and popped up Miguel Tejada, both on cutters. FB sitting 89-90.

* Quick 1-2-3 inning in 2nd. FB hit 94 once, mostly around 90. More offspeed stuff than 1st, with a K looking on a curve.

* Another quick inning for Daisuke, an error by Lars allowed base runner that Lavarnway caught stealing. FB hit 91 4 times in the inning.

* Daisuke gives up looper to right to lead off 4th, then induces pop-up and taylor-made double-play ball.More off-speed stuff than last start.

* Efficient 11 pitch 5th inning for Daisuke. K'ed the first batter on a 92 mph fastball on corner. 69 total pitches, might come out for 6th.

* Fastball for Daisuke sat 90-91, but threw a lot of cutters and two-seamers in the high-80s. Mixed pitches well.


Edited by mabrowndog, 31 May 2012 - 07:44 PM.


#129 fineyoungarm


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:00 AM

As we know, he goes again tonight. If he goes another 5 with the same results as in the last two games, I wonder if the FO will decide that things have gotten miserable enought with Bard to call him up? That would force a sub starter next Saturday (national TV game). Or give Bard one more shot, and if he fails, Matsuzaka skips his next turn in Pawtucket and starts on 6/15 away against the White Sox.

#130 NDame616


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:08 AM

As we know, he goes again tonight. If he goes another 5 with the same results as in the last two games, I wonder if the FO will decide that things have gotten miserable enought with Bard to call him up? That would force a sub starter next Saturday (national TV game). Or give Bard one more shot, and if he fails, Matsuzaka skips his next turn in Pawtucket and starts on 6/15 away against the White Sox.


I know it isn't a "reliable source" but here is RotoWorld's take on DiceK after Bard's last start. Emphasis mine

Daniel Bard - BOS
According to WEEI.com's Rob Bradford, the Red Sox are ''prioritizing starting pitching depth'' leading up to the trade deadline.
Daniel Bard is officially on notice. The Red Sox reportedly don't view Daisuke Matsuzaka and Aaron Cook (knee) as realistic options for the rotation, and Ross Ohlendorf recently opted out of his minor league contract. Bard currently owns a 5.24 ERA in 12 appearances (10 starts) this season. He was clocked in the lower-90s on Sunday.
Source: WEEI.com Jun

This is the first I heard about the Red Sox not thinking DiceK as a realistic option for the rotation?

#131 fineyoungarm


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:28 PM

I know it isn't a "reliable source" but here is RotoWorld's take on DiceK after Bard's last start. Emphasis mine

Daniel Bard - BOS
According to WEEI.com's Rob Bradford, the Red Sox are ''prioritizing starting pitching depth'' leading up to the trade deadline.
Daniel Bard is officially on notice. The Red Sox reportedly don't view Daisuke Matsuzaka and Aaron Cook (knee) as realistic options for the rotation, and Ross Ohlendorf recently opted out of his minor league contract. Bard currently owns a 5.24 ERA in 12 appearances (10 starts) this season. He was clocked in the lower-90s on Sunday.
Source: WEEI.com Jun

This is the first I heard about the Red Sox not thinking DiceK as a realistic option for the rotation?


I saw that. Of course, we understand Cook. Not a clue as to what team is seeing with Matsuzaka that would not at least get him a look in Boston - unless any pitcher, whose fast ball tops out around 91 mph is out. But the reports are that he has been changing speeds well - and the stats show a reasonable number of Ks and walks - especially the last two outings.

If he performs adequately tonight, as a fan I would be interested to see how he plays on a team managed by BV.

There's so much white noise out there about that Yankees and Jays (never mind Boston) "really" wanting Garza. perhaps the thinking is that to hunt in the AL East in 2012 they have got to get a #3, whose name is not Clay Bucholz - and they are not betting on that being Dice K given his history. Maybe they think the answer is to be found in Houston.

#132 TomRicardo


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:05 PM

I am really not understanding Matsuzaka being left out of the discussion.

#133 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

Over the past three years, Matsuzaka has posted xFIP's of 4.75, 4.54, and 5.75 (worse than Cook each year). If they don't think he's sufficiently recovered, is it reasonable to not think he's just another guy and not much of an upgrade over Bard?

What are the scouting reports on his performance in Pawtucket? Looks like he's shown good control, but not striking many out and giving up a lot of HR.

#134 fineyoungarm


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:27 PM

Over the past three years, Matsuzaka has posted xFIP's of 4.75, 4.54, and 5.75 (worse than Cook each year). If they don't think he's sufficiently recovered, is it reasonable to not think he's just another guy and not much of an upgrade over Bard?

What are the scouting reports on his performance in Pawtucket? Looks like he's shown good control, but not striking many out and giving up a lot of HR.


I just have stats. SInce he got the cort shot in his back - 2 starts, 5 innings each - around 70 pitches. One run - on a HR. 5 hits (I think). 6 SO's and fewer walks than that.

#135 Red(s)HawksFan


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

Over the past three years, Matsuzaka has posted xFIP's of 4.75, 4.54, and 5.75 (worse than Cook each year). If they don't think he's sufficiently recovered, is it reasonable to not think he's just another guy and not much of an upgrade over Bard?

What are the scouting reports on his performance in Pawtucket? Looks like he's shown good control, but not striking many out and giving up a lot of HR.

He's got a K/9 rate of 7.1 in his 35.1 rehab innings. I'd say that's striking out a sufficient number of batters. His WHIP is under 1.0 and his ERA is 3.53. By the numbers, I'd say he looks pretty close to being ready for MLB action, but the Sox also have another two weeks to gauge his progress if they want to take it.

#136 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

I know it isn't a "reliable source" but here is RotoWorld's take on DiceK after Bard's last start. Emphasis mine

Daniel Bard - BOS
According to WEEI.com's Rob Bradford, the Red Sox are ''prioritizing starting pitching depth'' leading up to the trade deadline.
Daniel Bard is officially on notice. The Red Sox reportedly don't view Daisuke Matsuzaka and Aaron Cook (knee) as realistic options for the rotation, and Ross Ohlendorf recently opted out of his minor league contract. Bard currently owns a 5.24 ERA in 12 appearances (10 starts) this season. He was clocked in the lower-90s on Sunday.
Source: WEEI.com Jun

This is the first I heard about the Red Sox not thinking DiceK as a realistic option for the rotation?


Rotoworld is just trolling. The source has nothing about either Matsuzaka or Cook is not a realistic rotation option.

Bradford's saying that two options is not enough depth should there be injuries. That's an enormous distinction.

The implications of Bradford's article are in at least two parts: 1) the Sox have last year as historical precedent to fall back on, should they be "outed" in the media shopping Youk for pitching, and 2) because of the risk of injury to Lester, Beckett, or Buchholz the Sox are "taking their time with Matsuzaka [and] Cook's rehabilitation clock" rather than hurry either to pull Bard from the rotation.

#137 Crazy Puppy

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:53 PM

Matsuzaka was pulled after 40 pitches tonight in Pawtucket (1.1 IP, 3 hits, 2 BB, 2 Ks). Prepping to start on Saturday?

#138 Cumberland Blues

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:39 PM

Matsuzaka was pulled after 40 pitches tonight in Pawtucket (1.1 IP, 3 hits, 2 BB, 2 Ks). Prepping to start on Saturday?


More baserunners than outs does not scream tune-up to me. Morales got stretched out picking up after Bard last time, I'd give him the start.

#139 Papelbon's Poutine


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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:46 AM

I know it wasn't the best results but he only threw 40 pitches. This was the equivalent of a side session and with Bard sent down and DMac up, we will see one of the OFs, likely Pods or Byrd (hopefully not Nava) sent down after Fridays game and DiceK will take the start Saturday. Logic tells me this start was equivalent to a spring trainging one where they told him to go work on whatever pitches you're still lacking feel on and give a shit about the results, because you're coming out after 40 pitches no matter what.

Hestarted the 2nd, struck a guy out, gave up a single and then got pulled after 40 pitches. It was not due to performance.

#140 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:53 AM

Yep, that line reads like he was doing what he ought to under the circumstances -- throwing a BP side session at 50% effort, just to tune up his breaking pitches for Saturday.

#141 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:57 PM

Crossposted from Cafardo tweet thread, Matsuzaka probable starting indeed on Saturday, according to Bobby V

http://espn.go.com/b...-boston-red-sox

#142 Hairps

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:27 AM

Just to satisfy my OCD, here's a final update (in bold/italics) of the initial post:

Since 2009, the following three pitchers seem to provide the best-case (but still reasonable) scenarios from which we could then further calibrate our expectations:

Edinson Volquez:

SURGERY: 8/3/2009
FIRST REHAB START: 6/23/2010
DAYS BTWN: 324
NEXT MLB START: 7/17/2010
DAYS BTWN: 348

Jordan Zimmerman:

SURGERY: 8/19/2009
FIRST REHAB START: 7/2/2010
DAYS BTWN: 317
NEXT MLB START: 8/26/2010
DAYS BTWN: 372

Stephen Strasburg:

SURGERY: 9/3/2010
FIRST REHAB START: 8/7/2011
DAYS BTWN: 338
NEXT START: 9/6/2011
DAYS BTWN: 368


Daisuke Matsuzaka:

SURGERY: 6/10/2011
FIRST REHAB START: 4/23/2012
DAYS BTWN: 318
NEXT START: 6/9/2012
DAYS BTWN: 365

Let’s set those as the optimistic-but-reasonable parameters for Matsuzaka’s return. So, going from Dice-K's 6/10/2011 surgery date...

FIRST MINOR LEAGUE REHAB START:

USING ZIMMERMAN’S REHAB TIMELINE (317 days): April 22, 2012
ACTUAL: APRIL 23 (318 DAYS)
USING VOLQUEZ’S REHAB TIMELINE (324 days): April 29, 2012
USING STRASBURG’S REHAB TIMELINE (338 days): May 13, 2012


MLB RETURN:

USING VOLQUEZ’S MLB TIMELINE (348 days): May 23, 201
ACTUAL: June 9, 2012 (365 days)
USING STRASBURG’S MLB TIMELINE (368 days): June 12, 2012
USING ZIMMERMAN’S MLB TIMELINE (372 days): June 16, 2012


FIN



#143 tonyarmasjr

  • 565 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:40 AM

Alright, hot shot. How about Crawford, Ellsbury, and Bailey?

#144 Plympton91


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  • 6339 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:12 PM

Some positive signs. Good velocity, decent control of his offspeed pitches and got swings and misses. But, clearly lost command and tired in the 4th. He wasn't ready for the major leagues. Another failure of organizational decisionmaking.

#145 TomRicardo


  • rusty cohlebone


  • 17889 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:19 PM

They literally had no one else. Bard would have been down by 10 by now.

#146 SMU_Sox


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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

He allowed 5 hits and a walk over five innings along with 8 k's. Seems more like bad luck than anything else. He struck out two in his final frame. Organizational failure? That's a reach.

Edited by SMU_Sox, 09 June 2012 - 05:12 PM.


#147 Red(s)HawksFan


  • SoSH Member


  • 5000 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:25 PM

Some positive signs. Good velocity, decent control of his offspeed pitches and got swings and misses. But, clearly lost command and tired in the 4th. He wasn't ready for the major leagues. Another failure of organizational decisionmaking.

Failure? He was at 40 pitches entering the 4th when he "lost command and tired". He had 8 rehab starts, so how many more did he need to be "ready" enough to not tire after 40 pitches? Like SMU points out, he K'd two of the last three he faced, in fairly efficient fashion. He didn't appear to be happy when Valentine informed him he was done after the fifth. Doesn't seem like he was too tired to me. He had a bad inning. It's going to happen. Don't think it's something to impugn the organization's decision making over.

#148 Plympton91


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  • 6339 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, I posted after the 4th, and didn't expect he was coming out for the 5th. Given that additional evidence, the 4th looks just more like good hitters getting to him, combined with a bit of inconsistency to be expected from a pitcher coming back from TJS. Overall, very promising. If they can stay near 500 and within reach of the wild card slots for another month this could get fun, they may end up being the best team in baseball in the second half.

Edited by Plympton91, 09 June 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#149 Sprowl


  • mikey lowell of the sandbox


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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:58 PM

DiceK had excellent movement on his slurve and changeup, getting swinging strikes by the bucketfull. He also had decent velocity on the fastball (91-92 mph), but he grooved a lot of pitches. He threw strikes, but they got hit hard. Wild = lots of walks = DiceK 2008-2011. Wild in the strike zone = lots of hard-hit balls = DiceK 2012.

Posted Image

#150 MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

  • 3987 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:26 PM

DiceK had excellent movement on his slurve and changeup, getting swinging strikes by the bucketfull. He also had decent velocity on the fastball (91-92 mph), but he grooved a lot of pitches. He threw strikes, but they got hit hard. Wild = lots of walks = DiceK 2008-2011. Wild in the strike zone = lots of hard-hit balls = DiceK 2012.


If he can keep people guessing, he can get away with more fat pitches. Good separation between his fastball and change up (91 avg/80 avg), and he threw as many curves and cutters combined as fastballs, and his cutter seemed to be significantly different from the four-seamer, with five inches difference in average horizontal break.

I'm encouraged.