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Source: Cody Ross to Red Sox


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#1 RedOctober3829


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:49 PM

Per Rosenthal

#2 SoxScout


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:54 PM

Hopefully his suck vs. LHP last year was an anomaly.

Sabathia, Price, Moore, Romero, Cecil, Britton, Chen, Wada

Jeremy Lundblad
Cody Ross would seem like a nice fit at Fenway. Of his 52 HR since 2009, 49 were hit to CF or LF


Edited by SoxScout, 23 January 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#3 SoxScout


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

Gordon Edes
Sox fill need for OF help by coming to terms with Cody Ross. Major league source says it's a 1-year deal for around $3m, with bonuses


Jerry Crasnick
Cody Ross' deal with the #RedSox is for $3M base salary plus bonuses based on plate appearances.


Edited by SoxScout, 23 January 2012 - 09:13 PM.


#4 radsoxfan


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:14 PM

I really hope we didn't trade Scutaro for Cody Ross (plus 3M in salary relief to make sure we are under the luxury tax).

#5 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

The prevailing rationale for the Scutaro deal was to free up cash for another starter ... so the FO then turns around and dumps $3 million into Cody Ross?

I get that another OFer was needed with Crawford and Kalish on the shelf and Aviles now part of the SS platoon. But hell, Aviles is part of that SS platoon because the FO wanted more money for a starter. And instead they put that money into a mediocre guy in Ross who essentially duplicates the skillset already possessed by a guy already on the roster.

To say this offseason has been a strange one would be an understatement.

#6 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:20 PM

I really hope we didn't trade Scutaro for Cody Ross (plus 3M in salary relief to make sure we are under the luxury tax).


Pretty sure that's exactly what just happened.

Slotting Padilla in as the #5 starter eats up half that surplus salary relief, though.

#7 SoxScout


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:23 PM

I really hope we didn't trade Scutaro for Cody Ross (plus 3M in salary relief to make sure we are under the luxury tax).


McAdam:

However, multiple sources Monday indicated that an agreement with Oswalt -- even with the freed-up money -- is far from a done deal. The Sox continue to evaluate the market as the asking price for several pitchers drop. Other notable free agent pitchers include Edwin Jackson

Moreover, there are trades to consider. The Sox have been linked to both Matt Garza (Cubs) and Gavin Floyd (White Sox), each of whom will make significant money in 2012. Garza stands to get somewhere around $10 million either through arbitration or a settlement while Floyd is set to make $7 million with a $9.5 million club option for 2013.

One executive familiar with the Red Sox' thinking said Monday it was his impression that the Sox wouldn't be limited to spend only only what they saved on Scutaro, suggesting they could spend in excess of that figure.

"I think," said the executive, "(Scutaro's money) is more of a ballpark figure."



#8 nvalvo


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

I don't like this deal, and I like Cody Ross. I also follow the Giants, and Ross is basically SF's Mark Bellhorn.

(edit: in re Rough's comment below, I mean Bellhorn in the sense of unlikely playoff overachiever unknown pre-playoffs to the casual fan; Ross didn't spend enough time with the club to make a full year Bellhorn-level contribution. He's right: I shouldn't throw around Bellhorn's name. Bellhorn is the only player to have hit home runs in three consecutive playoff games. That's a high bar, even if two consecutive playoff PA against Roy Halladay is a similar feat.)

Here's why: Ross made much more sense for a team that mostly planned to play him in CF, where he's okay but not exactly good (-0.4 career UZR/150 in about 3000 innings). He's pretty cheap, so he only has to be worth about 1 WAR to earn his check. He was a 1 win player last season, and much better the four preceding seasons. So he'll probably be a solid value in a vacuum, even playing part time.

We have an MVP-level center fielder, so... basically, if we get much value from Ross, that probably means Ellsbury's hurt and the season is lost. If we actually have a hard salary cap imposed by management (and the new CBA), well, I would've spent on pitching instead.

Edited by nvalvo, 24 January 2012 - 01:49 AM.


#9 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:35 PM

At $3M, this isn't a bad deal. He hits lefties well, which is a need. He will ultimately replace McDonald and offers OF depth needed with the Kalish injury. He's a useful player who will help. If they don't get a pitcher, than I don't like it but it sounds like they could still do something else.

#10 Rough Carrigan


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:52 PM

I don't like this deal, and I like Cody Ross. I also follow the Giants, and Ross is basically SF's Mark Bellhorn.

Here's why: Ross made much more sense for a team that mostly planned to play him in CF, where he's okay but not exactly good (-0.4 career UZR/150 in about 3000 innings). He's pretty cheap, so he only has to be worth about 1 WAR to earn his check. He was a 1 win player last season, and much better the four preceding seasons. So he'll probably be a solid value in a vacuum, even playing part time.

We have an MVP-level center fielder, so... basically, if we get much value from Ross, that probably means Ellsbury's hurt and the season is lost. If we actually have a hard salary cap imposed by management (and the new CBA), well, I would've spent on pitching instead.

Hey, don't toss around the name Bellhorn so casually.
Bellhorn's 90.4 runs created in 2004 was only exceeded by Alfonso Soriano's 96.4 among AL second basemen. Okay, he crashed and burned the next season but Bellhorn was a terrific offensive second baseman for that magical year.

#11 Rasputin


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:24 PM

I am completely bereft of clues as to why anyone would do this. Sure, he's an improvement over McDonald but it's not like he's starter material either. As it stands now the Sox have traded a perfectly viable starting position player to strengthen their bench which is completely ass backward.

I have been expecting them to sign another pitcher and these moves have gotten me to the point where I am going to be very upset if they don't sign a pitcher. Or trade for a pitcher or fucking pull a goddamn pitcher out of Wally's unwashed bunghole but get us another pitcher so we don't have to try to rely on Bard and Aceves BOTH in the rotation.

#12 The Boomer

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:27 PM

The prevailing rationale for the Scutaro deal was to free up cash for another starter ... so the FO then turns around and dumps $3 million into Cody Ross?

I get that another OFer was needed with Crawford and Kalish on the shelf and Aviles now part of the SS platoon. But hell, Aviles is part of that SS platoon because the FO wanted more money for a starter. And instead they put that money into a mediocre guy in Ross who essentially duplicates the skillset already possessed by a guy already on the roster.

To say this offseason has been a strange one would be an understatement.


I tend to believe that the payroll savings was closer to that $7.6 million speculated in that link elsewhere in the thread. Here are the career stats for the 3 players:

http://www.baseball-...scutama01.shtml

http://www.baseball-...mcdonda02.shtml

http://www.baseball-.../rossco01.shtml

Scutaro played the most important defensive position and was better than average offensively and more or less than average defensively. McDonald's ceiling was in the role he has now (reserve outfielder). Ross is a strong reserve outfielder who is more or less than average when playing as a regular. Offensively, apart from OPS, WAR, etc., compare their 162 game average statistics. If all 3 players above got the same number of hypothetical at bats, Ross alone would hit as many HRs as Scutaro and McDonald combined. In Fenway, he could hit close to 20 HRs in only 400 at bats or so.

Comparing the 162 game averages for Punto and Aviles (.737 career with 2008 high of .833 OPS) with Scutaro (.727 career with 2009 high of .789 OPS) indicates that they will receive at least the same level and arguably more offensive production from Aviles as a regular. Scutaro bloomed late after years as a utility player. Aviles was a once and obviously future regular. Punto has only the offensive production of a utility infielder:

http://www.baseball-...avilemi01.shtml

http://www.baseball-...puntoni01.shtml

Aviles is almost 6 years younger and significantly less expensive than Scutaro. Ross (.779 career OPS) is clearly better than McDonald (.713 career OPS), is 2 years younger and has many more ML at bats than McDonald. Playing every day again, there is reason to think that Aviles could approach his 2008 offensive production (better than anything Scutaro has ever put up) and Ross will display a lot more power than McDonald. The $3-$4 million of payroll savings is still available to upgrade their pitching or simply will be retained as a cushion to fill a more obvious need later this coming season. Someone closer to that figure (unless Oswalt's price drops down nearer to that) is a more likely pitching sign. However, with the free agent market thin and the 2 best remaining pitchers (Oswalt and Jackson) overpriced, holding 5th starter tryouts with Padilla the most proven commodity having a decently projectible upside if healthy isn't terrible. Somebody could predictably pitch better than the 2011 versions of Lackey and Dice-K.

Cherington hasn't done anything splashy but he has cost effectively upgraded the RF outfield platoon and lined up comparable SS production for less. The Ross/Sweeney platoon at under $5 million combined will provide more overall production than often infirm 2011 J.D. Drew on his last legs for @ $10 million less. As already mentioned, Aviles gives them roughly what Scutaro did but for much less. The team also got younger at those two postitions. Jettisoning over the hill Tek, Wake, Drew and (just before a predictable decline) Scutaro, removed their oldest on the decline players and made the team younger without sacrificing much if any production for their roles.

Edited by The Boomer, 23 January 2012 - 10:34 PM.


#13 C4CRVT

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:37 PM

Man, being a GM must be way harder than it seems from where I sit.

I'm really curious as to what the real budget constraints are. From where I sit, the core is in place to win now and they're cheaping out on some really weird stuff. A starting shortstop and rotational depth should be right up there on the list. If Kalish ever gets healthy, he won't need a platoon partner. He has no platoon split and he'd be the backup CF with Sweeney taking back over in RF.

#14 cannonball 1729

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:40 PM

I am completely bereft of clues as to why anyone would do this. Sure, he's an improvement over McDonald but it's not like he's starter material either. As it stands now the Sox have traded a perfectly viable starting position player to strengthen their bench which is completely ass backward.

I have been expecting them to sign another pitcher and these moves have gotten me to the point where I am going to be very upset if they don't sign a pitcher. Or trade for a pitcher or fucking pull a goddamn pitcher out of Wally's unwashed bunghole but get us another pitcher so we don't have to try to rely on Bard and Aceves BOTH in the rotation.

I don't think this precludes them from a starting pitcher. Scutaro cleared over $7 million off the books. Ross was $3 mil. If the Sox now trade Jenks (even at a discount - the Sox could kick in a couple mil and still come out ahead) then they should have enough leeway to sign whoever. They could also sign Ortiz to a multi-year deal (2/25 would be better than the 14.5 midpoint between the two sides of the arbitration that everyone has penciled in right now) to give themselves a little more room.

Edit:


I'm really curious as to what the real budget constraints are.

$178 million, including all player salaries and medical expenses. Anything over that costs the Sox a huge penalty, thanks to the new CBA. Everyone seems to have figured out over the last day or so that there's basically a hard salary cap in baseball now.

Edited by cannonball 1729, 23 January 2012 - 10:47 PM.


#15 reggiecleveland


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:41 PM

I would love to have the roster construction so Carl would sit agianst lefties too.

#16 Sprowl


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:51 PM

I hate spending scarce dollars on mid-priced outfield depth, but there are worse signings than Ross for Fenway Park.

Ross 2011 batted balls at AT&T overlaid on Fenway Park:

Posted Image

#17 C4CRVT

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

I would love to have the roster construction so Carl would sit agianst lefties too.

What would it take for that to happen? His split last year was .195/.229/.317. It would be tough to do worse.

If Valentine platoons CC, how many SoSHers will he win over?

#18 DeJesus Built My Hotrod


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:20 PM

Meh. He is not Mark Bellhorn - when Bellhorn was with the Sox in '04, he averaged one walk per seven ABs and walked even more frequently during his next season. Ross has a lower walk-rate and gets on base at a much lower clip than Mark Bellhorn.

What he will do, however, is win over the dirt-dog fanbase. The guy bought himself a lifetime of dinners in the Bay Area with his stretch-run/playoff performance in 2010 (he is the Giant's version of Dave Roberts) and he is likely to be well regarded by Boston fans who like hustling country boys who smile while playing the game the right way. Unfortunately, that is an entirely different thing than being a good ballplayer.

If Ben can find some extra change under the couch cushions and sneaks some Benjamins out of Werner's wallet while he is interviewing the new eye-candy for NESN, maybe he can convince Ross' fellow-October hero, Edgar Renteria to come back to Boston to play SS (as part of a three-headed Puntavileria beast).

#19 bosockboy


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:27 PM

Meh. He is not Mark Bellhorn - when Bellhorn was with the Sox in '04, he averaged one walk per seven ABs and walked even more frequently during his next season. Ross has a lower walk-rate and gets on base at a much lower clip than Mark Bellhorn.

What he will do, however, is win over the dirt-dog fanbase. The guy bought himself a lifetime of dinners in the Bay Area with his stretch-run/playoff performance in 2010 (he is the Giant's version of Dave Roberts) and he is likely to be well regarded by Boston fans who like hustling country boys who smile while playing the game the right way. Unfortunately, that is an entirely different thing than being a good ballplayer.

If Ben can find some extra change under the couch cushions and sneaks some Benjamins out of Werner's wallet while he is interviewing the new eye-candy for NESN, maybe he can convince Ross' fellow-October hero, Edgar Renteria to come back to Boston to play SS (as part of a three-headed Puntavileria beast).


Renteria was a statue in 2005.....he's Mount Rushmore by now. No way he could play SS anymore on an infield he hated six years ago.

#20 pokey_reese


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:31 PM

For what it's worth, Ross has managed to put up a .780 total OPS with intermittent playing time in three parks that depress offense, espcially HRs.

I'm not saying that he is the ideal solution, but he should be significantly better than McDonald and manages to fit what we have for payroll flexibility to a degree.

#21 shoebox91

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:01 AM

MLB Network is reporting deal as well, FWIW.

#22 Doctor G

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:04 AM

I don't think this precludes them from a starting pitcher. Scutaro cleared over $7 million off the books. Ross was $3 mil. If the Sox now trade Jenks (even at a discount - the Sox could kick in a couple mil and still come out ahead) then they should have enough leeway to sign whoever. They could also sign Ortiz to a multi-year deal (2/25 would be better than the 14.5 midpoint between the two sides of the arbitration that everyone has penciled in right now) to give themselves a little more room.

Edit:



$178 million, including all player salaries and medical expenses. Anything over that costs the Sox a huge penalty, thanks to the new CBA. Everyone seems to have figured out over the last day or so that there's basically a hard salary cap in baseball now.

The CBT tax is based on the final end of season payroll. The Red Sox don't have to clear payroll now. Jenks has no trade value right now.
If they are really looking to trim payroll it probably hinges on establishing the health of players coming off injury, and making them available after Memorial Day.

Under this new luxury tax scenario it might be beneficial to teams to pursue trades well in advance of the 7-31 deadline.

#23 DeJesus Built My Hotrod


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:14 AM

Renteria was a statue in 2005.....he's Mount Rushmore by now. No way he could play SS anymore on an infield he hated six years ago.


Apologies, it was a bad joke (I am just waiting for a dope to swoop in and give me hell for making mockery of a Cody Ross thread...).

Anyhow, I hope Ross works out. One thing in his favor is that he appeared to be well regarded in the clubhouse. After last season, that can only help, right?

#24 Sprowl


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:35 AM

The CBT tax is based on the final end of season payroll. The Red Sox don't have to clear payroll now. Jenks has no trade value right now.
If they are really looking to trim payroll it probably hinges on establishing the health of players coming off injury, and making them available after Memorial Day.

Under this new luxury tax scenario it might be beneficial to teams to pursue trades well in advance of the 7-31 deadline.

I might as well start this thread early this season:

Sellers!

Apologies, it was a bad joke (I am just waiting for a dope to swoop in and give me hell for making mockery of a Cody Ross thread...).

Anyhow, I hope Ross works out. One thing in his favor is that he appeared to be well regarded in the clubhouse. After last season, that can only help, right?

He sounds... gritty.

#25 nvalvo


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:57 AM

He sounds... gritty.


Gritty in a weird, elfin way.

We now have, or will soon, a lot of outfielders on the 40-man: Ells, CC, Sweeney, Ross, McDonald, Kalish, Lin... While that's an interesting group of players, I wonder if McDonald will be cut/traded when Crawford returns as redundant with Ross.

#26 teddywingman


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:04 AM

Renteria was a statue in 2005.....he's Mount Rushmore by now. No way he could play SS anymore on an infield he hated six years ago.


You mean Mount Puntovileria.

I heard Renteria is fast now, and the infield has been rid of all snakes since spring 2010.

#27 kazuneko

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:10 AM

This move either indicates the team is willing to spend significantly more than the 6 million they shed with the Scutaro trade or that Cherington is an idiot. Trading your starting shortstop so that you can sign a solid 4th OF option and a starting pitcher (Oswalt) makes a lot of sense. Trading your starting shortstop to shore up your fourth OF slot is idiotic. Lets hope an Oswalt signing (and/or a Floyd trade) is the next shoe to fall. Otherwise you have to seriously wonder what the hell this team is doing...

#28 SoxScout


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:11 AM

Ross told The Associated Press in a text message late Monday that the deal won't be finalized until he takes a physical.


http://www.google.co...f8ae63d272ac081

#29 E5 Yaz


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:21 AM

@KMillar15 heading to The Nation one-five!!!!!!


I wish I could retweet everyone! Thank you #SFGiants fans you're amazing! Looking fwd to meeting the #redsoxnationfans!! Let's go!


http://twitter.com/IamCodyRoss

#30 cannonball 1729

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

The CBT tax is based on the final end of season payroll. The Red Sox don't have to clear payroll now. Jenks has no trade value right now.

True. But I'm risk averse. If the Sox sign Oswalt (or someone similar) and wait to trade Jenks and then Jenks goes and gets injured again, Bobby would have even less trade value than he does now, except that then the Sox would absolutely have to trade him to avoid losing $20 million, which means that other teams will basically have the Sox over a barrel. If the Sox trade him now, they're likely to at least find someone to take a chance on him, even if only at a discount.

The point of a Jenks trade isn't to get value. The point is to get a #4 starter.

#31 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:14 AM

I wish I could retweet everyone! Thank you #SFGiants fans you're amazing! Looking fwd to meeting the #redsoxnationfans!! Let's go!


Good God, we've signed Miss America.

<substance>About Ross' walk rate--it's a bit all over the place:

Posted Image

Last year was promising; let's see what happens. I'm more worried about the ISO:

Posted Image

A little bounceback last year, but it still looks like .180 or so would be the most we could hope for, unless he and Fenway have a torrid love affair.

So probably a rational-optimist projection would be something like .260/.330/.440. Maybe a shade better if he mostly sees lefties. (Though weirdly, last year he had a reverse ISO split--every previous year he's had a normal ISO split, and usually a big one.)

#32 BosRedSox5


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:56 AM

So our platoon in right is Ross and Sweeney eh?

Sweeney career vs. RHP: .296 .352 .402 .754

Ross career vs. LHP: .282 .349 .563 .912

Meh, it could work. They're both supposed to be good fielders who can play anywhere in the outfield. (I know it's a bogus stat, but Sweeney hasn't made an error since 2009.) They are both fairly high percentage base steallers and good baserunners... I didn't like 3 mil for Ross, but if the Sox are paying $4.75 million for a composite RF ($3MM for Ross, $1.75MM for Sweeney) that can get on base at about a .350 clip, play D and run... we've essentially replaced JD Drew at less than 1/3 the price.

Edited by BosRedSox5, 24 January 2012 - 07:56 AM.


#33 Carl Everetts Therapist


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:40 AM

The poster who brought up the fact that the Luxury tax is calculated after the season makes a good point.

Let's assume that we sign Oswalt and Bard turns out to be about league average in the #5 starter slot, then Daisuke comes back healthy and proves between the minors and a few major league starts that he is affective. Theoretically he could be moved clearing nearly a 10million dollar Luxury tax hit. That alone would get this team under the cap, add to that the possibility of a mid-season Jenks dump and they would have plenty of room.

That may seem far fetched that teams would be interested in those two, but in the chance taht they are healthy and decent, they would be pro-rated contracts for the aquiring team.

#34 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:02 AM

... then Daisuke comes back healthy and proves between the minors and a few major league starts that he is affective. Theoretically he could be moved clearing nearly a 10million dollar Luxury tax hit.

Wouldn't the payroll clearance be pro-rated? I.e., if we moved him at mid-season, we would only clear roughly half his salary for CBT purposes? Which still might be enough, depending on other factors.

#35 Bowlerman9


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:08 AM

Wouldn't the payroll clearance be pro-rated? I.e., if we moved him at mid-season, we would only clear roughly half his salary for CBT purposes? Which still might be enough, depending on other factors.


Yes. That is correct.

#36 TomRicardo


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:32 AM

I really hope we didn't trade Scutaro for Cody Ross (plus 3M in salary relief to make sure we are under the luxury tax).


I do. Cody Ross is going to get a ton of starts for us especially in the beginning of the season with Crawford injured. I would have straight up traded Scutaro foir Cody Ross, minor league filler, and cash.

I was disappointed with Scutaro's return but Scutarto is 36, spent time on the DL last year and was injured the year before. His arm had declined a lot near to the point of liability at SS. Cody Ross represents an more of an upgrade from Darnell McDonald than Aviles is a downgrade from Scutaro though it is close. The 3 million is icing on the cake.

Edited by TomRicardo, 24 January 2012 - 09:32 AM.


#37 Carl Everetts Therapist


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:36 AM

I agree, I think Ross could put up numbers in Fenway similar to his big year in FLA. He played in the NL West and even when he was on the road he was in a bunch of pitcher friendly parks compared to the AL east.

I think by May he'll be the everyday RF, with Sweener spelling him against tough righties.

#38 Infield Infidel


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:49 AM

I do. Cody Ross is going to get a ton of starts for us especially in the beginning of the season with Crawford injured. I would have straight up traded Scutaro foir Cody Ross, minor league filler, and cash.

I was disappointed with Scutaro's return but Scutarto is 36, spent time on the DL last year and was injured the year before. His arm had declined a lot near to the point of liability at SS. Cody Ross represents an more of an upgrade from Darnell McDonald than Aviles is a downgrade from Scutaro though it is close. The 3 million is icing on the cake.

Early season playing time is a big key here. CC could be out anywhere from two weeks to a month, with a chance that he's headed to extended spring training. He's at least going to start late in spring training, and he might need to be brought along slowly

So against LHP early we are covered with Ross and McDonald, but early on one of them are going to have to start against RHP, and Darnell's career .612 OPS vs RHP isn't going to cut it. Ross is a better (.727 OPS vs RHP)

#39 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:01 AM

While Crawford is out, I would play Ross in RF full-time and platoon McDonald and Sweeney in left. (Sweeney is the best defender of the three, and has probably played in front of the Monster before, as of course has Darnell.) Once Crawford is back, then it becomes a Sweeney/Ross platoon in RF (but with Ross probably getting some starts vs. RHP), with McDonald as the extra guy. Leaves us a shade thin in the infield, though.

Darnell's out of options, right?

#40 maufman


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

Among a litany of lesser issues (how much playing time Ross will get, whether he'll benefit from Fenway, be good for the clubhouse, et al.), I see two major concerns with the Ross signing:

1. Opportunity cost -- will the money committed to Ross prevent the FO from adding a starting pitcher, or addressing some other pressing need?

2. Defense -- there is more noise than usual in the metrics; are we getting a fringe-average center fielder who might be a bit better than average in right, or are we getting a questionable defender who's going to get exposed in Fenway's spacious right field?

The answer to #1 will, I suspect, become clear in time.

Does anyone have thoughts on #2? Is this one of those areas where, despite some curious decisions this offseason, we should trust that the FO has better information than us?

#41 Al Zarilla


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:14 AM

Good God, we've signed Miss America.

Don't worry about Ross (except can he please be more like 2010 than 2011, hitting-wise) . He's a great guy as has been said above. Just turned 31, good Fenway swing. An injury in ST last year ruined his start to 2011, he came back hitting well, and I think got hurt again and didn't do well the rest of the year. If you're sitting in the 3rd base seats, pay attention when he's up. He loses his grip on his bat a lot.

#42 glennhoffmania


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:30 AM

Wouldn't the payroll clearance be pro-rated? I.e., if we moved him at mid-season, we would only clear roughly half his salary for CBT purposes? Which still might be enough, depending on other factors.


Is this right? I thought it was based on total AAV as of a certain date. Or did it change with the latest CBA?

#43 Bowlerman9


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:40 AM

Is this right? I thought it was based on total AAV as of a certain date. Or did it change with the latest CBA?


It's based on the AAV of the contracts you had throughout the year, but it's calculated in December. So if you had DiceK for half the season, you'd get hit with half a year's worth of AAV. Same way it's always been calculated.

#44 Doctor G

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:40 AM

The poster who brought up the fact that the Luxury tax is calculated after the season makes a good point.

Let's assume that we sign Oswalt and Bard turns out to be about league average in the #5 starter slot, then Daisuke comes back healthy and proves between the minors and a few major league starts that he is affective. Theoretically he could be moved clearing nearly a 10million dollar Luxury tax hit. That alone would get this team under the cap, add to that the possibility of a mid-season Jenks dump and they would have plenty of room.

That may seem far fetched that teams would be interested in those two, but in the chance taht they are healthy and decent, they would be pro-rated contracts for the aquiring team.

this also allows the Sox time to evaluate what they have between Miller Doubront Padilla etc., there is no pressing need for a starter now. If the top three are healthy coming out of ST, they should be capable of playing 550 ball through the All Star Break. this also gives them an opportunity to see Middlebrooks and Kalish and Iglesias at Pawtucket.

Why should they take on a full season starters salary now when they can get the equivalent talent for less than half the salary hit at the trading deadline?

#45 bosockboy


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:47 AM

this also allows the Sox time to evaluate what they have between Miller Doubront Padilla etc., there is no pressing need for a starter now. If the top three are healthy coming out of ST, they should be capable of playing 550 ball through the All Star Break. this also gives them an opportunity to see Middlebrooks and Kalish and Iglesias at Pawtucket.

Why should they take on a full season starters salary now when they can get the equivalent talent for less than half the salary hit at the trading deadline?


Trade deadline deals for starters are really expensive in talent loss, and you have no idea what will become available, what other clubs might have more need, etc....

The AL will be a death match for the one (or two) wild card slot(s).....not sure you can wait that long. If you can get an Oswalt for cash only, it's probably best to just do it.

#46 Doctor G

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:58 AM

Trade deadline deals for starters are really expensive in talent loss, and you have no idea what will become available, what other clubs might have more need, etc....

The AL will be a death match for the one (or two) wild card slot(s).....not sure you can wait that long. If you can get an Oswalt for cash only, it's probably best to just do it.

This is the reason it is a huge gamble to commit a fullseason salary to Oswalt who has a disc problem in his back. Floyd is the only pitcher I would consider now. The pricetag in prospects for him is probably higher now than what you would have to give up for a guy like Guthrie for example at the trade deadline.

There is a good chance that Kalish WMB and Iglesias will be much more valuable in July.

#47 glennhoffmania


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:03 AM

It's based on the AAV of the contracts you had throughout the year, but it's calculated in December. So if you had DiceK for half the season, you'd get hit with half a year's worth of AAV. Same way it's always been calculated.


I just read the agreement and you're right. For some reason I thought it was based on actual AAV as of a certain date (I thought 8/31) so dumping a guy before then allowed you to not count him. My bad.

#48 YTF

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:23 PM

This is the reason it is a huge gamble to commit a fullseason salary to Oswalt who has a disc problem in his back. Floyd is the only pitcher I would consider now. The pricetag in prospects for him is probably higher now than what you would have to give up for a guy like Guthrie for example at the trade deadline.

There is a good chance that Kalish WMB and Iglesias will be much more valuable in July.


A good chance that Floyd will be as well. My 2 cents.......... Oswalt on a one year if the Sox get him at their price or Floyd now if it's doable rather than a mid season pickup. If the Sox have a glut of healthy, capable starters come July and August, good for them. If Dice-k comes back and looks good, if Padilla is more than we hoped he could be, if Miller and Doubront both prove to be capable spot starters or more and the Sox have either of Oswalt or Floyld in the rotation as well as the "top 3" will that be such a bad thing? Rhetorical as I know you haven't suggested that it would, but my point being I would rather see the Sox planning now rather than later IF of course it all fits into their "budget". Would be great to be "sellers" come August because there actually is a surplus of pitching. Not likely, but better than needing to scamble and have to overpay in talent for what often amounts to a 2 month rental.

Edited by YTF, 24 January 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#49 strek1


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:59 PM

Can't help but think that the Sox FO is hoping like hell Kalish bounces back sooner rather than later.

#50 teddywingman


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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:32 PM

Just a thought:
If the Sox are getting decent production from the outfield in April, maybe extended spring training would be the best thing for Crawford.

He'd get plenty of time to reach 100 percent and hopefully mash some minor league pitching, slow things down and regain some confidence.