162 replies to this topic

[loshjott]

Belichick takes over as President and Josh McD takes over as HC?

Maybe this is a joke, but this is the exact situation with Parcells that prompted BB to leave the Jets and come to the Pats.

Belichick seems like the kind of guy who will walk off the field and never look back.

[Salva135]

Maybe this is a joke, but this is the exact situation with Parcells that prompted BB to leave the Jets and come to the Pats.

Belichick seems like the kind of guy who will walk off the field and never look back.

I don't think it's completely far-fetched. Do you think when BB decides to hang up the coaching whistle the Pats will do nothing to try and retain him within the organization? I'm not convinced he would be totally averse to a Parcells-type post-coaching career. But then again my information is as imperfect as yours, so it's just an idea floated.

Edited by Salva135, 26 January 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[dbn]

I voted "Correct". I'd like to hear from the the 51 people who voted "True" as to what they were thinking.

[Super Nomario]

McDaniels will be head coach and run the O, Belichick the D. McDaniels will make BB do this for a couple seasons before giving Belichick the official Defensive Coordinator title, however.

[Super Nomario]

Curiosity that has nothing to do with anything:

This playoff run isn't just a "revenge" tour for teams that have beaten the Pats in the playoffs in recent years. It's also a tour of cities / teams that Belichick has coached with. He was an assistant special teams coach and defensive assistant for the Broncos in in '78. His first job was in Baltimore (1975 for the Colts), and he coached the Ravens franchise while it was still the Cleveland Browns. And of course he was a longtime coach and coordinator for the Giants.

[Al Zarilla]

Belichick takes over as President and Josh McD takes over as HC?

Maybe, but for the foreseeable, I think it would take the entire offensive line tethered together to drag him off the field. He also needs to change the name of his boat a few more times.

[Salva135]

Maybe, but for the foreseeable, I think it would take the entire offensive line tethered together to drag him off the field. He also needs to change the name of his boat a few more times.

I wasn't saying anytime soon, we were talking about the Patriots' line of succession down the line, and floated the possibility, similar with McDaniels ultimately becoming BB's successor. I don't think Jonathan Kraft is taking over any sooner than Belichick is leaving. At least five more years of the status quo.

Edited by Salva135, 26 January 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[Salva135]

repeat

Edited by Salva135, 26 January 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[MentalDisabldLst]

Belichick did say in the NFL Films special on 2009 that he "wasn't going to be one of those guys doing this well into his 60s". I think the horizon is getting more in sight for him in his career. I expect he'll see Brady's career through, and after that the thrill will be a little bit gone.

[MainerInExile]

Belichick did say in the NFL Films special on 2009 that he "wasn't going to be one of those guys doing this well into his 60s". I think the horizon is getting more in sight for him in his career. I expect he'll see Brady's career through, and after that the thrill will be a little bit gone.

I can see him wanting to do a year or two post-Brady, just to show he can.

[TheShynessClinic]

I also wouldn't be surprised if he retires after this year - assuming a Patriots SB victory. What better way to go out, than on top?

[bigsid05]

I also wouldn't be surprised if he retires after this year - assuming a Patriots SB victory. What better way to go out, than on top?

Seems unlikely since this team should still be contending for at least another 3-4 years, assuming Brady stays healthy. He'd be nuts to walk away from making it an untouchable dynasty.

[williams_482]

I also wouldn't be surprised if he retires after this year - assuming a Patriots SB victory. What better way to go out, than on top?

I would be completely stunned, but what do I know?

[Super Nomario]

I don't think Belichick would step down with a succession plan in place, and with O'Brien leaving, McDaniels just returning, and Patricia not yet having official "DC" status I don't think the Pats are ready for it.

[Hoya81]

I always thought he'd take some sort of AD role at the Naval Academy.

[Salva135]

I don't think Belichick would step down with a succession plan in place, and with O'Brien leaving, McDaniels just returning, and Patricia not yet having official "DC" status I don't think the Pats are ready for it.

Who says Belichick would retire after this year?? Nobody! We were just discussing long-term succession. BB is going NOwhere, regardless of the outcome of this game.

[Super Nomario]

This pertains to "Belichick" but not Bill per se. His dad's book, Football Scouting Methods, is $3 on Amazon right now (for the Kindle version). I've never read it, but I've wanted to for a while.

http://www.amazon.co...f=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

[dbn]

As far as when Belichick will retire, there is no way to tell. It could be next Tuesday, or 2052. It's Belichick.

[OnBaseMachine]

Why would Belichick get criticism for having Sterling Moore at CB? He picked the guy off the scrap heap in the middle of rash of injuries and the guy came up unbelievably huge in the second most important game of the year.

That is what you call a good move.

[Oil Can Dan]

I don't know where to ask this but this seems as good as any. What was the general consensus on BB deciding to kill the 1st half with around 57 seconds and two TO's vs Balt? Pats fan I was with during the game was not at all happy, and I didn't much like it from a strategy standpoint either.

(null)

[Mystic Merlin]

I don't know where to ask this but this seems as good as any. What was the general consensus on BB deciding to kill the 1st half with around 57 seconds and two TO's vs Balt? Pats fan I was with during the game was not at all happy, and I didn't much like it from a strategy standpoint either.

(null)

I don't think there was one. Some didn't like, others - myself included - were ok with it. Why? Well, field position. I'm usually a big proponent of aggression in game management, but it struck me as a poor spot for it given the field position, time left, the risk of giving the ball back to BAL near midfield (i.e., a three and out is a a big field position swing for BAL in that spot, and gives them an extra possession to boot), and the fact the Pats were getting the second-half kickoff. I saw more downside than upside there, both in terms of the possession and field position game. I understand those who would have preferred the Pats at least run a real play to see what would happen to possibly change their calculus (e.g. 15 yard run off the bat), but I didn't have a problem with the approach.

[BigSoxFan]

I was fine with it too. We had a lead and the ball to start the 2nd half. The odds of Brady getting the 50-60 yards needed for a FG attempt weren't worth the risk of a potential game-changing turnover. We saw firsthand last year against the Jets what can happen when you make a big mistake before the half.

[Super Nomario]

Statistically, a drive starting at your own 11 is worth -.16 expected points. That doesn't include the clock ramifications, which make it less likely you'll score and less likely your opponent will score if you go three-and-out, but it's certainly defensible from a numerical standpoint. I think the Ravens had timeouts, too.

http://wp.advancednf...inprobcalc1.php

Besides the danger of a turnover, the bad field position meant a sack or loss of yards would have Mesko punting out of the end zone.

[Rudy's Curve]

I thought playing it safe was the right move, but I can't believe Baltimore didn't use their timeouts. The drive started at 58 seconds and they had two, so they'd force the Patriots to punt from their end zone and get the ball back with ~10 seconds left around midfield. Flacco can easily reach the endzone from there and that far outweighs the chances of getting strip-sixed. I thought that the Patriots should have ran the ball given that Baltimore had two timeouts, but it was a far more egregious mistake by the Ravens not to use them.

Edited by Rudy's Curve, 27 January 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Oil Can Dan]

I guess I can understand considering Baltimore had two timeouts (I just looked it up). I personally would have at a minimum ran a draw or something on 1st down but I more likely would have attacked through the air. It's certainly reasonable to sit on the ball there, but it really didn't seem right at the time. Also seemed un-Belichickian at the time.

[tims4wins]

I thought it was the right call. I was wayyy more pissed about running the ball on 3rd and 2 from the 6 or 7 yard line on the opening drive of the 2nd half than I was about the decision to take a knee.

Edit: although I would have been totally on board with a draw on first down, to see if you can get the ball out past the 20 and give yourself a chance to throw.

Edited by tims4wins, 27 January 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[bowiac]

Kraft has repeatedly said he wants to emulate the Steelers/Giants, in terms of keeping the team in the family and maintaining a time-tested organizational structure. Jonathan Kraft will eventually take over, and I suspect he has been doing a lot more and recent years, and especially in recent months.

I'm very comfortable with the franchise going 5-10+ years forward. They get it.

I dunno - the terrible record of Belichick disciples doesn't scare you a bit?

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

I dunno - the terrible record of Belichick disciples doesn't scare you a bit?

Not to answer for Merlin, but it doesn't bother me in the least. Weis and Crennel were the only accomplished disciples to get exposure outside the organization and both went directly into difficult situations in which to succeed. Weis has pretty much been a flop (though he did have one fairly good season at ND). Crennel had some mixed success in Cleveland and at least appears to be on track to righting the ship in KC.

Mangini and McDaniels both left way too soon after being elevated to coordinators to judge.

Just at look at how long it took Belichick to run his own successful organization after two separate lengthy stints under Parcells with his own failed run as HC in Cleveland in between. If McDaniels ends up getting five or more additional seasons in under Belichick, I'd feel very confident in his ability to successfully take over the reigns at that point.

Edited by Bucknahs Bum Ankle, 27 January 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[tims4wins]

I doesn't bother me in the least. Weis and Crennel were the only accomplished disciples to get exposure outside the organization and both went directly into difficult situations in which to succeed. Weis has pretty much been a flop (though he did have one fairly good season at ND). Crennel had some mixed success in Cleveland and at least appears to be on track to righting the ship in KC.

Mangini and McDaniels both left way too soon after being elevated to coordinators to judge.

Just at look at how long it took Belichick to run his own successful organization after two separate lengthy stints under Parcells with his own failed run as HC in Cleveland in between. If McDaniels ends up getting five or more additional seasons in under Belichick, I'd feel very confident in his ability to successfully take over the reigns at that point.

Agree with this all the way. Belichick was an assistant in New York for 12 seasons, 1979 through 1990. He then coached the Browns for 5 years, and failed overall. He then went back to being an assistant for 4 more years before taking over in NE. If Brady and Belichick stick around for say 4 more years, and they find a way to keep McDaniels during that time, I'd feel perfectly fine about handing him the keys - so long as there is someone like Caserio acting as GM.

[Toe Nash]

I thought playing it safe was the right move, but I can't believe Baltimore didn't use their timeouts. The drive started at 58 seconds and they had two, so they'd force the Patriots to punt from their end zone and get the ball back with ~10 seconds left around midfield. Flacco can easily reach the endzone from there and that far outweighs the chances of getting strip-sixed. I thought that the Patriots should have ran the ball given that Baltimore had two timeouts, but it was a far more egregious mistake by the Ravens not to use them.

Yep, this was a big mistake especially considering what New York had done at the end of the first half the previous week. Give yourself a shot at a big punt return or a big pass / DPI call -- there's virtually no downside. They decided to just give away a potential posession.

[simplyeric]

Where's the poll choice that says "will quit football to follow in the footsteps of childhood idol Meatloaf"?

[mandro ramtinez]

Where's the poll choice that says "will quit football to follow in the footsteps of childhood idol Meatloaf"?

Or Van Morrison.

[drleather2001]

Van Morrison?!

Maybe Brian Wilson...

[tims4wins]

Fun read by Jackie Mac on Belichick and the film room

The Belistrator loves to run a particular play when center Dan Koppen is supposed to be cleaning up the pocket, but is unable to make contact.
"We're waiting, Dan," Belichick delights in saying as the film runs. "Still waiting … still waiting …"
"Coach," Koppen finally responded after two years of seeing clip, "no matter how many times you show this, I'm still not going to get there."
"Anybody, Dan? Anybody? Can you just hit somebody?" chortled Vrabel, in his best Belistrator voice. "That's one of my favorites.
"And don't forget the time he went to Willie McGinest and said, 'Hey Willie, if you were on the offensive line and I yelled, 'Screen left!' which way would you block?' Willie said, 'I'd go left.'
"Bill said, 'Well damn, that's right. See, Light? Even a defensive guy knows which way to block."

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I found a new sig in that article

"As you can see clearly here," said Belichick, slowing the game action to an excruciating crawl, "this is where Ihedigbo gets beat.

[tims4wins]

I found a new sig in that article

"As you can see clearly here," said Belichick, slowing the game action to an excruciating crawl, "this is where Ihedigbo gets beat.

If you didn't know he was talking about the WR pass during the Redskins game, you could make this statement in every game, including about 8 times against the Ravens

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

If you didn't know he was talking about the WR pass during the Redskins game, you could make this statement in every game, including about 8 times against the Ravens

exactly

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Fun read by Jackie Mac on Belichick and the film room

I was just coming here to post the link. Really good stuff here. Nick job by MacMullen. I didn't know he and Vrabel made up.

[H78]

I just read this too. Great piece by MacMullen, one of the best and freshest things I've seen about Belichick in years.

[Reverend]

Great piece, thanks for pointing it out.

As is often the case when I read about Belichick, this makes me think of his roots watching his dad coach at Annapolis. The whole routine has a kind of elite military unit vibe such that you: 1) train so hard such that when it comes time for the mission, the mission is actually easier than the training; 2) there is a Darwinian selection process such that your unit is comprised only of people who can deal with the training.

And of course, it's not an accident that the military does it that way, which once again leaves me wondering why others don't do it this way.

By the way, I think I'm getting tripped up in the terminology but why is this:

Quarterback Rex Grossman handed off to running back Roy Helu, who pitched it to receiver Brandon Banks, who tossed a 49-yard touchdown pass to an untouched Santana Moss.

a double reverse? I thought that that was a reverse that people mistakenly call a double reverse.

But if Bill Belichick says it's a double reverse, it's a goddamned double reverse.

[bakahump]

"As you can see clearly here," said Belichick, slowing the game action to an excruciating crawl, "this is where Ihedigbo goes down with a shoulder injury."

".....and here is where he comes back in"

[loshjott]

Watch a Belichick press conference after a big win and he invariably starts with "All the credit goes to the players." The phrase is almost exactly the same every time.

If I've noticed this over the years I'm sure the players do too.

He kills them behind the scenes and praises them in public. Even after bad losses he never calls anyone out by name.

[Youkilis vs Wild]

Fun read by Jackie Mac on Belichick and the film room

What an absolutely fantastic piece of writing by Jackie. It simultaneously humanizes Belichick while showing the way he works towards perfection. It's also got a lot of texture: the AD section was really compelling, as was the Vrabel-Belichick resolution. And she did it without even talking to Belichick. Really good sports writing.

[Mooch]

Belichick seems particularly relaxed and surprisingly candid with the press in Indy this week. Cracking jokes, etc... I get the feeling he likes what he's seeing from Patriots practice so far since his mood typically reflects the successs or failure of that week's practice. I take this as a good sign.

[drleather2001]

It must be a relief to go into the game as the "underdog" for the first time in 10 years (and 4 appearances).

[Mystic Merlin]

It must be a relief to go into the game as the "underdog" for the first time in 10 years (and 4 appearances).

Justin Tuck told me that nobody believes the Giants can win, so I call BS.

[MentalDisabldLst]

Yeah, that was one of the best articles on Belichick I've ever read.

I really liked this part near the end:

Vrabel had one year left on his contract when he went to Belichick in 2009 and told him he'd like to redo his deal. Within weeks, he was dealt to Kansas City.

It was a shocking and hurtful development for the proud linebacker, who had enjoyed a tremendous relationship with Belichick. Vrabel didn't speak to his former coach for almost two years after the trade.

Time has softened Vrabel's stance. He's retired now and working as a defensive line coach at Ohio State, and hopes to pop in on a Patriots practice in Indianapolis.

"Bill and I are more than fine now," Vrabel said. "To be honest, I had this revelation. Let's say, for example, I stayed in New England and got old, and it got messy. Maybe I got cut. If that happened, we probably wouldn't have a relationship.

"Looking back, what Bill did made sense. I went to K.C., met a ton of people. Now Bill and I talk all the time. I get advice on my players. I check on his daughter, who is at Ohio State.

"We never talked about the trade. We probably never will. But I know this: Bill cares. He doesn't show it, but if you bust your ass for him, he's got your back.

That's one hell of an honest interview MacMullen got out of Vrabel.

Edited by MentalDisabldLst, 30 January 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[Icculus]

Watch a Belichick press conference after a big win and he invariably starts with "All the credit goes to the players." The phrase is almost exactly the same every time.

If I've noticed this over the years I'm sure the players do too.

He kills them behind the scenes and praises them in public. Even after bad losses he never calls anyone out by name.

Belichick never gets enough credit for this. Not only does he always give the kudos to the players after a win, when they lose he almost always starts the blame with himself and the coaching staff. You just get used to it and it always sounds wrong to me when another coach calls out a player for coming up short. I can remember him saying something along the lines that the defense needs to play better, or that he needs to get more out of special teams but I can't recall the last time he called out a specific player in a press conference or even went along when someone in the press tried to do it.

[drleather2001]

Well, that's a good management technique in any profession (you work hard to make your boss look good, your boss then works hard to make you look good). But yea, it goes to show how much BB and Kraft like to run their organization as a professional endeavor. Act professionally, keep things in-house, don't speak ill of anyone, etc...

As someone who prides himself on maintaining a professional attitude and demeanor at work, and has little patience for those that don't, I really appreciate this approach.

[dynomite]

Belichick never gets enough credit for this. Not only does he always give the kudos to the players after a win, when they lose he almost always starts the blame with himself and the coaching staff. You just get used to it and it always sounds wrong to me when another coach calls out a player for coming up short. I can remember him saying something along the lines that the defense needs to play better, or that he needs to get more out of special teams but I can't recall the last time he called out a specific player in a press conference or even went along when someone in the press tried to do it.

And he's the first one to defend a player from external criticism, like Moss in 2009 right after the Panthers game. (Some of the Panthers' DBs were claiming Moss hadn't been running routes on every play, and when asked about it Belichick immediately responded along the lines of "That's a lot of talk from a team that hasn't won many games in a long time.")