58 replies to this topic

[redinchicago]

Forget about their aging defense for a minute, the 2012 Pittsburgh Steelers could be an interesting mix of bad.

Bruce Arians is "retiring" from coaching, opening up a spot for a new offensive coordinator.

http://www.post-gaze.../1204846-42.stm

While that isn't too shocking, since his contract was up and threatened to retire a few years ago, a couple factors seem to be possibly pointing ownership may have made his decision to retire easier. The new OC could be asked to run the ball more, which in my opinion is a disaster waiting to happen. I don't know if they look at Roetherlisberger and fear that he is taking too many hits or are just stubborn and think running the ball more than the 43% of the time in 2011 is too little? Or they look at the red zone failed opportunities?

My opinion is that they didn't run enough no huddle, 4 or 5 wide receiver sets and when Roethlisberger passed under center, an overmatched OL was flagged for holding or let his man get to Roethlisberger. Obvious statement of the day: there needs to be a serious upgrade at the line of scrimmage no matter what offense is run.

The second issue, and probably more important, is the cap problems the Steelers have and how to fix them. Obviously, I'm not that good at figuring out how to solve cap issues, so I'll link the good articles written.

Part 1: http://www.steelersl...rycap-quandary/
Part 2: http://www.steelersl...ap-hell-part-2/
Part 3: http://www.steelersl...g-risky-part-3/
Part 4: http://www.steelersl...teelers-part-4/
Part 5: http://www.steelersl...3man-roster-10/

[Dehere]

Be careful what you wish for. Lotta Steeler fans have been calling for Arians' head for years. I've felt he was an underrated OC. Wouldn't be surprised to see them take a step backward offensively with a new playcaller.

[Jimy Hendrix]

Be careful what you wish for. Lotta Steeler fans have been calling for Arians' head for years. I've felt he was an underrated OC. Wouldn't be surprised to see them take a step backward offensively with a new playcaller.

If Arians is gone, than DVE might as well just go dark after each game, as I have no idea what every sports caller will talk about now.

[Shelterdog]

If Arians is gone, than DVE might as well just go dark after each game, as I have no idea what every sports caller will talk about now.

They'll rip on the new offensive coordinator.

[NYCSox]

It would be really nice to see what this offense is capable of with an OL that can stay mostly intact for an entire season.

I can't remember the last time they have even come close to having that kind of in-season continuity.

[Saints Rest]

They'll rip on the new offensive coordinator.

Sort of like Patriots fans.

[dcmissle]

Sort of like Patriots fans.

Yes. When the o-line is being beaten like a red-haired stepchild we whine about the OC (usually, not creative enough, even Charlie Weis) or complain about Brady's off day. Familiar?

With their receivers and Ben, if the Steelers become more run oriented, they will be doing the rest of the League an enormous favor. Just draft good linemen, an overabundance even. It's much easier.

[jsinger121]

AlbertBreer



Steelers announce DL Chris Hoke is retiring. One of the good guys in that locker room, underrated depth player on the interior.

[redinchicago]

Indianapolis Colts. Or Pittsburgh Steelers.

Bruce Arians as OC and now Keith Butler as DC?

Butler was going to be the heir apparent to Dick Lebeau, I believe. Don't blame Keith for going for the immediate promotion, but this is a blow, IMO.

Arians, no brainer, with Andrew Luck as your QB.

Ouch.

[dcmissle]

Now Caldwell repotedly interviewing with the Steelers for OC gig: http://profootballta...oordinator-job/

I'm interested in the back story on this from Steelers' fans. Arians retiring (*cough*) clearly not the Rooneys' finest moment. (Interestingly, Arians was Peytons first QB coach).

I'm wondering how much of this is the Steelers showing Ben who is boss, how much it is the Rooneys wanting to get their Franco Harris/Jerome Bettis on, and how much it is something else.

Edited by dcmissle, 29 January 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[KiltedFool]

Saw an article on one of the Steelers blogs noting that Arians' status was up in the air until right after Caldwell was fired. Then he was suddenly "retired". Went on to note that Tomlin and Caldwell have tenure together, I believe back in Tampa Bay days. At the time I saw it as plausible as written so I can see this.

The loss of Butler is an interesting and worrisome development.

[dcmissle]

Saw an article on one of the Steelers blogs noting that Arians' status was up in the air until right after Caldwell was fired. Then he was suddenly "retired". Went on to note that Tomlin and Caldwell have tenure together, I believe back in Tampa Bay days. At the time I saw it as plausible as written so I can see this.

The loss of Butler is an interesting and worrisome development.

Interesting. Thanks.

Caldwell reportedly > the Ravens, with primary responsibility for coaching up Flacco: http://espn.go.com/n...s?eleven=twelve

[jsinger121]

Steelers still planning on cutting Hines Ward regardless of him will to take a pay cut.

http://espn.go.com/n...ard-report-says


They have already cut Bryant McFadden and restructured Ike Taylor and couple of the linebackers.

[the1andonly3003]

Steelers still planning on cutting Hines Ward regardless of him will to take a pay cut.

http://espn.go.com/n...ard-report-says


They have already cut Bryant McFadden and restructured Ike Taylor and couple of the linebackers.

could be a reliable hand Pats could add to the WR corps in Hines Ward

[NortheasternPJ]

could be a reliable hand Pats could add to the WR corps in Hines Ward

I hope you are joking.

[baruch20]

could be a reliable hand Pats could add to the WR corps corpse in Hines Ward

fixed that for you

[dcmissle]

This outsider does not get the power struggle, if there is one via PFT.com --

Steelers fans don’t like it when media members not headquartered in Pittsburgh point out the inherent awkwardness surrounding the clumsy, short-lived “retirement” of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and the somewhat surprising hiring of new offensive coordinator Todd Haley. It’ll be interesting to see how they respond to Joe Starkey’s take from Sunday’s Pittsburgh Tribune-Review regarding the apparent power struggle between the front office and the team’s franchise quarterback.

Nor do I much get back to the future with the offense. Not with that QB and WRs, and that defense.

[KiltedFool]

Some high points from another article elsewhere.

-One reason there's so much press furor and attempts to gin up melodrama about Arians getting booted was Arians was the press' best source of inside gossip, the man constantly leaked information (like their entire draft board on one occasion). He made Joe Biden seem closemouthed and reticent.

- According to this person, Tomlin and Roethlisberger saved Arians' job two years ago. The article notes the offense scored 4 more points than the Tarvaris Jackson Seahawks this year and Tomlin declined to intervene this time.

- The short list of possible OCs had to be former OCs or head coaches if they were to be brought in over the existing coaches rather than hire from within. So the short list of Jim Caldwell, Hue Jackson, Tom Clements and Haley was based on that. The closest in-house option was QB coach Randy Fichtner, and he's not ready yet.

- Aside from money reasons (which Ward has already addressed somewhat), this other article speculates that as a consolation prize for losing his best buddy Arians Ben will get undisputed leadership on the offensive side if Ward is gone.

-The restructure of Ike Taylor brings the over-the-cap number to $6.46 and the only vets released thus far are McFadden and Battle.

In other thoughts (like mine) Ward is done as anything other than a lead blocker or a "get to the sticks and sit down" target on 3rd and 6 type receiver. Though as a blocker in the running game he's still dangerous, no other receiver enjoys cracking back on an end or linebacker like him.

Under current conditions Ward is the 4th receiver. After Wallace, Brown, and Sanders, any other receivers are just special teams guys. Sanders' feet are a durability concern. Cotchery would be a nice re-sign and he really liked the Steelers, but I doubt the money works out.

Primarily I'm glad the Steelers are working their way out of cap hell, I didn't like that uncomfortable feeling of resembling some teams that are constantly way over the cap (often from free agent signings) and that whole circus. Also glad that the rumors of Omar Khan potentially being poached to be a GM for another team don't appear to have any substance to them at this time, his cap wizardry is needed right now more than ever.

[maufman]

Aside from money reasons (which Ward has already addressed somewhat), this other article speculates that as a consolation prize for losing his best buddy Arians Ben will get undisputed leadership on the offensive side if Ward is gone.

This explains a lot.

Ward can't stay at his current salary, but for league minimum (which is all he's going to get, imo), Ward's skill set -- a fringy possession receiver who blocks well -- seems like a good fit for a team like the Steelers that already has two deep threats at WR and a good pass-catching TE, and wants to improve its running game. Logically, I expected the Steelers would let Ward test the market, then re-sign him when he discovers no one else wants him except for a similarly limited role. Therefore, I had been surprised by the bridge-burning coming from the Steelers' FO -- but it all makes sense if Roethlisberger doesn't want Ward back.

Edited by maufman, 13 February 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[KiltedFool]

Some of the bridge burning is likely reporter slant, some of it is likely FO leak. But at the end of the day Ben and Ward aren't best friends. They're both smart and competitive, and they both "get it". Ben obviously is comfortable throwing to Ward, they've worked together long enough they have the same linked mind that Brady and Branch have. But they don't spend the offseason together, and they are both seen as leaders on the offensive side, so there is friction there.

[tims4wins]

/ducking/

[soxfan121]

This explains a lot.

Ward can't stay at his current salary, but for league minimum (which is all he's going to get, imo), Ward's skill set -- a fringy possession receiver who blocks well -- seems like a good fit for a team like the Steelers that already has two deep threats at WR and a good pass-catching TE, and wants to improve its running game. Logically, I expected the Steelers would let Ward test the market, then re-sign him when he discovers no one else wants him except for a similarly limited role. Therefore, I had been surprised by the bridge-burning coming from the Steelers' FO -- but it all makes sense if Roethlisberger doesn't want Ward back.

Inmates, asylum? Hines Ward might be old and slow but he's always been professional. If Ben wants him out, is it because Ward can't play or because Ward carries too much respect in the locker room - respect that Ben wants and thinks he can grab with Ward's departure?

I'd be wary of enabling a guy like Ben, ever. I get that he's the franchise QB but the guy hasn't proven himself to be as reliably professional as Ward. I have to think that Ward's respect in the room wouldn't automatically shift to Ben as I'm sure there are Steelers players who privately lament having "that guy" as the face of the franchise. Further, while I understand an organization doing what it can to make the franchise QB comfortable, I'd be wary of Ben's behavior when he's feeling entitled. Basically, I wouldn't trust the guy and I'd make sure that he knows it. He's played well while under a cloud of doubt and I see no reason to "clear the air" and remove one of the most professional of my locker room leaders to make Ben feel better.

Unless Ward is truly done as an NFL contributor; then, whack him and figure out some other way to make sure that Ben is surrounded by professionals, and not knuckleheads, who can influence his on and off the field behavior.

[maufman]

Ward is a 4th/5th WR who can't play special teams. Not many teams have a place for such a player; none would keep such a player who was disliked by the starting QB.

I agree the Steelers should not "enable" Roethlisberger, but by all accounts they are doing no such thing.

[NYCSox]

I tend to agree with Maufman. Ward isn't being let go because of some power struggle, but rather his cost now outweighs his production. I'd love to see him back at a sharply reduced price to be a spare WR and run supporter but I doubt that he would have interest in that if another team has a greater need.

[maufman]

I tend to agree with Maufman. Ward isn't being let go because of some power struggle, but rather his cost now outweighs his production. I'd love to see him back at a sharply reduced price to be a spare WR and run supporter but I doubt that he would have interest in that if another team has a greater need.

I actually think Ward might be interested -- not right away, but after he shops his services for a month and discovers that few teams are interested at all, and none are offering him more than the limited role you describe. The noises from the FO suggest that Ward won't be back even under those circumstances.

[soxfan121]

I actually think Ward might be interested -- not right away, but after he shops his services for a month and discovers that few teams are interested at all, and none are offering him more than the limited role you describe. The noises from the FO suggest that Ward won't be back even under those circumstances.

Agreed, which is why I asked - is Ward completely done? A 4th WR who knows the system, plays hard and is a leader in the locker room is a luxury but having seen the Patriots do the exact same thing with Troy Brown & Kevin Faulk, it can be done. Is Ward the kind of guy to get disgruntled if his PT and role dwindle down to nothing beyond leadership? I dunno.

But if he's willing to return at the vet minimum and he's not a problem (again, my assumption - I spend very little time thinking about the Steelers, so the actual fans need to answer this) in the locker room - then why, exactly, does he have to go? To appease Ben is not a good enough reason, IMO.

[Vinho Tinto]

Ward is a 4th/5th WR who can't play special teams.

It's too bad real life isn't Madden football, where a position change to tight end turns 35 years old Hines Ward into Rob Gronkowski.

[KiltedFool]

Ward is in print as being willing to reduce his salary, he understands the cost/production trade-off and the reality of the salary cap. The leadership of the offense angle is speculation by a beat writer. Granted it's a very well established and long time beat writer, but it's still speculation. I doubt Ward gets disgruntled if he's on the team, he went from incumbent starter to 4th WR last season without the slightest peep, and spouted the company line when writers tried to bait him about it.

The speculation was more along the lines of "this may be something Ben sees as a benefit as a consolation for losing his binky OC" if Ward in fact leaves. Right now there are not enough legit WR under contract to make Ward leaving guaranteed. Cotchery signing a team (and cap) friendly deal would be the most likely scenario that would push Ward out IMO.

I'm actually looking forward a little bit to Haley pushing Ben to improve not just do it the way he always has "since that's gotten him two rings".

[redinchicago]

As usual Steelers Lounge has a good writeup of 3 draft options: Stay at current first round spot, trade up, and trade down:

http://www.steelersl...fts-3-versions/

[redinchicago]

Ideally, the Steelers will probably draft best player available in 1st round. Almost always been the case. And it's a football player that's been productive. Rarely do they take upside picks. That would have me guessing that the following players are at the top of best player available:

1. David DeCastro G (only if they decide to trade up)
2. Cordy Glenn OG/T
3. Coby Fleener TE
4. Dont'a Hightower ILB (ILB quite deep this year)
5. Stephon Gilmore CB

[BigMike]

I am so thrilled with the DeCastro pick.

I wanted OG in the first round, and desperately didn't want Hightower, so I was expecting Zeitler at 24. To get DeCastro was just a stunner, and probably the most thrilled I have been with a pick since Ben in 2004

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I agree. DeCastro was a Steel(ers) for them. (hahahahahahahahaha)

They have a very good interior presence with DeCastro and Pouncey. They may be set on the interior line going forward for the next decade.

[ragnarok725]

Yeah, seeing DeCastro there for the Steelers seemed like the biggest lock for a pick since #1/#2. Easy, easy pick. DeCastro may be the surest thing in the draft to be at least above average. Annoyed that the Steelers grabbed him.

[redinchicago]

I admit, I'm a little skeptical about the Mike Adams 2nd round pick

http://www.post-gaze...e-adams-633466/

Obviously a talent. Deserves being pick. Kids make mistakes. He's made a couple. But this is a pick the Steelers usually don't risk failing at.

Spencer I really like. He does have issues with strength and getting off of blocks. But in the 3-4, he'll have the opportunity to roam and have the DLs take care of the blockers.

[BigMike]

Sean Spence knee blows up last night, and possibly one more knee injury That makes 6 straight games where the Steelers have lost a player to a major knee injury. Just absolutely insane at this point

I guess the only good news from this is that at least there seems to be some hope that DeCastro will only miss half the season after his knee was repaired.

[crystalline]

Moved from the game thread:

Yes, the idiots rooting for the Steelers yesterday should have given a second thought about rooting for that team to get any closer to a playoff spot.

When that team gets fully healthy, assuming it ever does, I would put it up against any team in the league.

Yes the Steelers are starting to look like a serious threat.

But that fake FG call makes me seriously question the coaching.
I think it's hard for coaches to do something as negative as that call.
They were down by 3. A field goal makes it a tie game and you're likely to pin NY at their 20 or less.
Instead they use the KICKER to try to run it in.
It looked even worse because someone forgot to block the defensive end (whoever was playing there?) who could have tackled Suisham with his eyes closed.

Am I missing something? How can the expected outcome ever be positive for that play, especially when compared with a 20 yard FG to tie the game?

[Oil Can Dan]

It was a stupid call for sure, but the reality is that if they didn't get the first down or the TD that the Giants and their inept offense was going to be starting from their five. And, they'd very likely force a punt and receive the ball at midfield still down by 3. And that's pretty much exactly what happened.

That play aside I have to say that Steeler team plays some good football. To me there's nothing as frustrating as watching the other team convert third downs, and the Steelers lead the NFL in 3rd down percentage at over 50%. That's crazy talk.

I was at that game and I came away pretty impressed with that offense. I'm really not sure about their defense because Eli Manning has been playing terrible football for the past three games, but that Steeler offense is legit.

[KiltedFool]

Not going back to look, but Heath Miller had his man blocked, Suisham would have had better luck trying to outrun the guy to the outside.

I think there may have been an element of Tomlin making that call in part to register a vote of confidence in his defense, which would also be a confidence builder. That defense has given up some big plays and some late leads, they've been building up their confidence the last few weeks. Tomlin forgoing the virtually guaranteed tie to go for the lead, knowing (as Dan mentions) that if he doesn't get it his defense is well positioned to hold them and get the ball back. Huge confidence boost to that defense, knowing their coach has faith in them if his gamble goes sour.

The defensive backs have become decent and are still improving, a lot of athleticism back there, and Lake seems an excellent coach. The linebackers are not providing the pass rush and explosion that is typical for a Steeler team. The D-line is a weird mix of very young (in steelers defense terms) and very old. Odd that the strength of the defense right now is arguably the corners.

Offensive line beginning to gel, Haley has sorted through his bullpen pieces and now knows who does what well and what roles people excel at. So now the offense is getting some things going and looks to be enjoying the hell out of themselves. The interior o-line is getting nasty and the tackle play is somewhere around adequate/serviceable, though not great by any means. Ben is showing signs of buying in to quick throws and pile up the YAC, which is covering for weaker tackle play somewhat.

Concerned about the depth at linebacker and safety and hope the d-line steps up some, Ziggy Hood and Cameron Heyward aren't setting the world on fire, and Hampton and Kiesel are getting old. At least there's a good succession plan in place for NT.

With the parity and general blah of the AFC, and the major injuries that have hit Baltimore (and Flacco being..well..Flacco) they could be a beauty of a threat later on in the season if they can get healthy.

[Dehere]

Their third down offense really is something to behold. They seem to be able to pick up third and intermediate almost at will, which makes me wish they would try to stretch the field more on first and second downs but maybe that will come. I always thought the criticism of Bruce Arians among Steeler fans was overblown but boy, the playcalling under Haley has been tremendous. Roethlisberger will be an MVP candidate by December.

Also - it pains me to say this because he's one of my favorite players ever - but the defense may be having a Ewing Theory moment without Troy Polamalu. As his sheer athleticism has eroded he's been exposed as a poor tackler and without him the secondary has been steadier if less spectacular.

[BigMike]

Moved from the game thread:



Yes the Steelers are starting to look like a serious threat.

But that fake FG call makes me seriously question the coaching.
I think it's hard for coaches to do something as negative as that call.
They were down by 3. A field goal makes it a tie game and you're likely to pin NY at their 20 or less.
Instead they use the KICKER to try to run it in.
It looked even worse because someone forgot to block the defensive end (whoever was playing there?) who could have tackled Suisham with his eyes closed.

Am I missing something? How can the expected outcome ever be positive for that play, especially when compared with a 20 yard FG to tie the game?

Yeah you are missing the most important thing.

They were absolutely DOMINATING the line of scrimmage. I have no problem with them making a decision to go for it in that situation by slamming it down the throat of a team they were dominating by going jumbo and running Redman right up the middle again.

Going for it on 4th down was the right call in that situation. Doing so with some silly fake FG was absolutely the dumbest thing they could do in that situation

[abty]

You guys better not face them on the road in the post-season. They are no joke if they are on. They flat out whooped our team. That offensive line is pure evil and Wallace is deadly.

[Jimy Hendrix]

You guys better not face them on the road in the post-season. They are no joke if they are on. They flat out whooped our team. That offensive line is pure evil and Wallace is deadly.

Given the specific deep ball problems of this year's Pats secondary, I am extremely terrified of the concept of Mike Wallace lining up against any of them.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Apparently Roethlisberger's doctors say the last athlete to have this injury is this dude, who ended up missing 12 weeks. Ben is a pretty tough guy so I can't imagine him being out that long. But if these injury reports are legit, I wouldn't expect him back too soon.

[lostjumper]

Apparently Roethlisberger's doctors say the last athlete to have this injury is this dude, who ended up missing 12 weeks. Ben is a pretty tough guy so I can't imagine him being out that long. But if these injury reports are legit, I wouldn't expect him back too soon.

This injury has nothing to do with toughness. It's a dislocated rib that could press against his aorta and kill him he he gets hit hard. He would be dumb to play with that risk. In fact, I doubt he could even get doctor's clearance to play even if he wanted to "tough it out". The last thing the NFL wants is to see a qb die on the field from getting sacked.

[NYCSox]

Yeah at this point I'm highly pessimistic of his return this season. Which sucks as they seemed to be getting some momentum with key guys on defense returning (or nearing return) from injuries.

[Corsi]

Filed to ESPN: Free-agent WR Plaxico Burress is expected to go to Pittsburgh to meet with and take a physical for the Steelers. Need WR help

https://twitter.com/...659615048495104

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

This injury has nothing to do with toughness. It's a dislocated rib that could press against his aorta and kill him he he gets hit hard. He would be dumb to play with that risk. In fact, I doubt he could even get doctor's clearance to play even if he wanted to "tough it out". The last thing the NFL wants is to see a qb die on the field from getting sacked.

He's obviously not going to play if he could die on the field. But at some point well before 12 weeks pass that risk will have disappeared and it will be mainly an issue of playing through pain.

[epraz]

I think the implication is that the danger of internal blooding outlasts the period roethlisberger is limited by pain.

[NYCSox]

I swear Leftwich must be made of glass or something because he is simply incapable of staying healthy for an entire game. Charlie Batch come on down.

http://espn.go.com/n...ely-sources-say

[SoxScout]

AdamSchefter: Along with Plaxico Burress, Steelers also signed Brian Hoyer as their backup QB.

Edited by SoxScout, 20 November 2012 - 01:25 PM.