214 replies to this topic

[miracleofmidre]

Tim Thomas didn't do a single thing outside his rights. He did what he felt, his civil right as a citizen of this great country. He is entitled to express himself, speak his mind, and follow his own political beliefs even if it pisses people off. God knows I have done this around my friends, and they have done it around me.

The thing is, you can do that and also not expose yourself as a raging, selfish asshole, especially on a day when your team's accomplishments are being celebrated.

Edited by miracleofmidre, 23 January 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[Corsi]

He's honoring you; you're not honoring him. That's really all there is to it.

[kenneycb]

That's why I said "this week". If the All-Star Game wasn't this weekend, it likely wouldn't ever be mentioned again beyond Wednesday. He'll be asked after tomorrow's game, he'll say he's already said everything he's going to say, and everyone will forget and move on.

Thomas does plenty for charitable causes, is one of the best interview subjects in the league, and has never had any controversy around him. Nobody in the media is going to care enough about this in a couple of days to give him a hard time.

Sorry, I took week to mean 7 days.

[Corsi]

Neely statement:

"As an organization we were honored by President Obama's invitation to the White House. It was a great day and a perfect way to cap our team's achievement from last season. It was a day that none of us will soon forget. We are disappointed that Tim chose not to join us, and his views certainly do not reflect those of the Jacobs family or the Bruins organization. This will be the last public comment from the Bruins organization on this subject."

http://bruins.nhl.co...s.htm?id=613285

[Van Everyman]

As my wife said, if he felt so passionately about these issues, this was his chance to address them with the Leader of the Free World.

Oh well. Twitter will have to do.

(null)

[Van Everyman]

And this will be the last public comment I make on the subject.

(null)

[Awesome Fossum]

As my wife said, if he felt so passionately about these issues, this was his chance to address them with the Leader of the Free World.

Right, because that would have been effective. Who will be the Democrat nominee once Obama switches parties after his 30-second conversation with Tim Thomas?

I think the president hosting any sports team -- save maybe the national teams but definitely the professional ones -- is stupid. It's a waste of the president's time and it perpetuates the worship of the executive office. So I always like it when someone blows off the visit, regardless of how ridiculous the reason. Actually, the more ridiculous the better. It's easily my favorite thing about James Harrison.

[jose melendez]

You know, I was initially pissed about this, because I thought it was classless, but the more I've thought about it, the more I think that if Thomas really believes Obama is destroying the country, making a small statement in this way is a reasonable thing to do.

I think his belief is incredibly stupid and wrongheaded, but if he feels that strongly, sure, why not do it.

[PedroSpecialK]

Love what Neely said. That's perfect.

[scotian1]

Does the remark last public comment mean there will be a private word or two?

[Mike in CT]

You know, I was initially pissed about this, because I thought it was classless, but the more I've thought about it, the more I think that if Thomas really believes Obama is destroying the country, making a small statement in this way is a reasonable thing to do.

I think his belief is incredibly stupid and wrongheaded, but if he feels that strongly, sure, why not do it.

He specifically mentioned both parties as being responsible in his statement. He hasn't mentioned Obama once, that I have seen.

The core Tea Party people don't like any of these guys, including the Republican establishment. That's why they're turning the Republican primary into chaos. The Party is simply the easiest vehicle for Tea Party people to try and make changes.

[Myt1]

Nope, message would've reached the same target, he'd just look a lot less selfish doing it.

You're either a fool for believing this or dishonest for posting it.

[Moped]

I bet he wouldnt have snubbed W with this insincere crap about about both parties being so horrible. Typical tea party cop out. Politically hes an ignorant douche, like alot of athletes

Id like to take this opportunity to thank trot nixon and all my beloved red neck red sox heros for keeping their mouths shut in 2004. Shilling was bad enough but he made up for it on the mound.

Tim did it in the crease

[JohntheBaptist]

Myt, you're not wrong in anything you've written here but... isn't there something to be said for picking your spots? Do the event with your teammates that in no way speaks to or infringes upon your beliefs, and then spout off with that facebook statement to every microphone in sight after the next game.

I think that's why its drawing this sort of reaction--no one seems really upset, but it's an eyeroll move. Would have been cool if he could have sucked it up for his teammates too.

We're not talking about a brutal dictator or some sort of despotic extreme here either, by the way. Standing there while he cracks some jokes is hardly a test of too much patience, right?

[PedroSpecialK]

At this point I'm not really rolling my eyes - they have now merely receded into the back of my head. From Haggs:

CSNNE was doing a piece weeks ago on Andrew Ference’s efforts to recycle and encourage his B’s teammates to live environmentally-conscious lifestyles in their day-to-day existences as hockey players.

Several of Ference’s teammates, like Tyler Seguin and Zdeno Chara for instance, smiled and spoke about the nuanced ways the forward-thinking defenseman had affected them in a positive way. Seguin said he now shops for all his groceries at Whole Foods for the environmentally-agreeable organic foods recommended by Ference, and Chara mentioned taking his bicycle everywhere rather than driving.

But Tim Thomas politely declined when asked his opinions about Ference’s efforts, and admitted “we’ve got pretty opposite viewpoints on that kind of stuff.”

Thomas went on to say – with the wonderful usage of paraphrasing in hindsight – that he didn’t believe in the scientific theories powering the greenhouse effect and global warming. Instead Thomas felt like the efforts behind both notions were being pushed by those interested in growing the current green industry that’s turned into a cash cow in the United States over the last decade.

Fuck science and that hippy lib Ference. This is the lowest of low-hanging fruit, but it speaks volumes to Thomas's thought process and overall intellect. It kills me to say it, but I am legitimately worried about the backlash of this on his and/or the team's game.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 24 January 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[Williams Head Case]

I feel really bad for all those wealthy athletes who are on TV almost everyday and feted across Boston and the world for not having a moment to shine.

[Rico Guapo]

That's kind of fucked up (Thomas/Kampfer). If you don't respect the man, you can still respect the title.

The title means something? After all the horrific presidents we've had in the last 100 years????

Edited by Rico Guapo, 24 January 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[Sparky Lyle]

The title means something? After all the horrific presidents we've had in the last 100 years????

What!!! You, are a douche bag. Go fuck yourself. The title means a lot. A real lot. I read Chris cross examine everyone here. Because he thinks things out and respects opinions. And when Shyness Clinic, like me not the greatest poster on the planet, offers equanimity in a point of view, I listen. What the fuck are you talking about, you jerk fucking jerk!!!!! Horrific presidents!!!! What planet are you from!!!!!!


Oh, and here's the other thing, by the way, I'm a liberal. I have very little in common with Weebs, Nip, Shyness, et al. But I listen to them! They know things I don't. If Tim Thomas wants to be ill-mannered that's fine. It's not that big a deal in the big scheme of things I guess, but he could have at least been a good sport about it. He wasn't. So he can kiss my Irish ass. You can too.

Edited by Sparky Lyle, 24 January 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[FL4WL3SS]

I've ignored this thread becuase I thought the entire situation with Thomas was stupid and I didn't really want to comment on it, but now I've heard enough about it to be pretty annoyed. I really have no problem with Thomas not showing, that's his own prerogative, but he should have either addressed this today or addressed this a week ago. I understand he wanted to make a political statement and that's his right as a citizen and even though I disagree with him, I would never take that away from him. I have felt very strongly about things over my life and cherish my freedom to express my views on those things.

I just think he was selfish in the way he went about it. He should have had more respect for his teammates - if he didn't want to go, then that's his right, but he shouldn't have put a damper on the day for everyone else. You don't get too many opportunties to meet the president and I"m sure it was a big day for a lot of the guys. Thomas should have put this to rest a week ago by putting out his statement that he wasn't going to be there and explain his views at that point. It would have been appropriate and let the chatter die down before the big day.

The act itself wasn't selfish, the way he went about handling it was selfish. He made the day about himself by waiting until the day of to address the issue instead of letting it be about his team and addressing it at a different time.

[FL4WL3SS]

The title means something? After all the horrific presidents we've had in the last 100 years????

I'm with Sparky on this one. No matter what you think about the President, I think you've lost some perspective homie.

[AlNipper49]

The title means something? After all the horrific presidents we've had in the last 100 years????

It's the office which demands respect. We have had and unfortunately currently have lots of people dying for what it stands for.

The move Tim Thomas should have made was attend, shut up, shake his hand then afterwards use his same Facebook platform to say something like 'if he did his job 1/10th as well as we did, this country wouldn't be in this mess'. The process would have gone well, he would have made his point and fostered a team spirit even if people didn't agree with him. Then it would be on him to explain himself and if you wanted to ignore him you could just not follow his Facebook account.

But what he did was no better than what Code Pink does, in a little less upfront way.

What Epstein did was worse as he was part of management. The more days go by I miss that dude less and less. Thanks for Cody Ross and Nick Punto you fuck.

[Lose Remerswaal]

He hates America

[Dummy Hoy]

Up a little late Sparky?

It's the office which demands respect. We have had and unfortunately currently have lots of people dying for what it stands for.

The move Tim Thomas should have made was attend, shut up, shake his hand then afterwards use his same Facebook platform to say something like 'if he did his job 1/10th as well as we did, this country wouldn't be in this mess'. The process would have gone well, he would have made his point and fostered a team spirit even if people didn't agree with him. Then it would be on him to explain himself and if you wanted to ignore him you could just not follow his Facebook account.

I'm not sure I agree with Nip very often at all, but this is spot on. I just think it's fucking stupid to politicize a non-political event.

[Salem's Lot]

Whether you agree or disagree with Thomas' political statement or the timing of said statement, if I was one of his teammates I'd be a little pissed off. I wouldn't want to be sitting in front of my locker after morning skate today having to answer stupid questions from reporters about why my goalie couldn't just suck it up and go to the White House and instead had to be a dick about it. It's a small annoying distraction that will blow over, but Thomas is still a douche for causing it.

[PedroSpecialK]

The CC's take

[cshea]

At this point I'm not really rolling my eyes - they have now merely receded into the back of my head. From Haggs:



Fuck science and that hippy lib Ference. This is the lowest of low-hanging fruit, but it speaks volumes to Thomas's thought process and overall intellect. It kills me to say it, but I am legitimately worried about the backlash of this on his and/or the team's game.

Eh, Ference and Thomas are two of the longer tenured B's, so I don't see why this would suddenly turn into a problem. They have their differences, but clearly it has never affected team negatively. Ference is always the first guy in when Thomas gets run, so I don't think Thomas is in any danger of getting Ballard'd.

I do think the rest of the players do have the right to be pissed at him for using their team accomplishment to do some political grandstanding. I would hope Thomas would pick up the dinner tab while they're in Washington or something along those lines.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

What!!! You, are a douche bag. Go fuck yourself. The title means a lot. A real lot. I read Chris cross examine everyone here. Because he thinks things out and respects opinions. And when Shyness Clinic, like me not the greatest poster on the planet, offers equanimity in a point of view, I listen. What the fuck are you talking about, you jerk fucking jerk!!!!! Horrific presidents!!!! What planet are you from!!!!!!


Oh, and here's the other thing, by the way, I'm a liberal. I have very little in common with Weebs, Nip, Shyness, et al. But I listen to them! They know things I don't. If Tim Thomas wants to be ill-mannered that's fine. It's not that big a deal in the big scheme of things I guess, but he could have at least been a good sport about it. He wasn't. So he can kiss my Irish ass. You can too.

And, that, folks, is why I love Sparky unconditionally. You rock, good sir.

[amh03]

First and foremost, Thomas absolutely has the right to decline that invitation. And everyone else has the right to agree with him or to criticize him. That's the interesting thing about the US.

What's sad, at least from my perspective, is that it seems as if everyone is talking about Tim Thomas this morning and not about the Bruins. Yesterday was really not a day about Obama nor was it a day about the Office of the Presidency. It was a day about the Bruins...or it was supposed to be. How sad for each of them that this morning, we're all talking about Tim Thomas, and President Obama, and the US government and even Theo Epstein.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

First and foremost, Thomas absolutely has the right to decline that invitation. And everyone else has the right to agree with him or to criticize him. That's the interesting thing about the US.

What's sad, at least from my perspective, is that it seems as if everyone is talking about Tim Thomas this morning and not about the Bruins. Yesterday was really not a day about Obama nor was it a day about the Office of the Presidency. It was a day about the Bruins...or it was supposed to be. How sad for each of them that this morning, we're all talking about Tim Thomas, and President Obama, and the US government and even Theo Epstein.

We can blame Tim Thomas for that.

I don't think anyone here has said he doesn't have the right to skip the trip. Of course he does.

[Mr Weebles]

I'm a liberal. I have very little in common with Weebs, Nip, Shyness, et al. But I listen to them! They know things I don't.

Yeah, I know things you don't.

Like everything.

Jerkface.

[Rico Guapo]

What!!! You, are a douche bag. Go fuck yourself. The title means a lot. A real lot. I read Chris cross examine everyone here. Because he thinks things out and respects opinions. And when Shyness Clinic, like me not the greatest poster on the planet, offers equanimity in a point of view, I listen. What the fuck are you talking about, you jerk fucking jerk!!!!! Horrific presidents!!!! What planet are you from!!!!!!


Oh, and here's the other thing, by the way, I'm a liberal. I have very little in common with Weebs, Nip, Shyness, et al. But I listen to them! They know things I don't. If Tim Thomas wants to be ill-mannered that's fine. It's not that big a deal in the big scheme of things I guess, but he could have at least been a good sport about it. He wasn't. So he can kiss my Irish ass. You can too.

I'm with Sparky on this one. No matter what you think about the President, I think you've lost some perspective homie.

It's the office which demands respect. We have had and unfortunately currently have lots of people dying for what it stands for.

The move Tim Thomas should have made was attend, shut up, shake his hand then afterwards use his same Facebook platform to say something like 'if he did his job 1/10th as well as we did, this country wouldn't be in this mess'. The process would have gone well, he would have made his point and fostered a team spirit even if people didn't agree with him. Then it would be on him to explain himself and if you wanted to ignore him you could just not follow his Facebook account.

But what he did was no better than what Code Pink does, in a little less upfront way.

What Epstein did was worse as he was part of management. The more days go by I miss that dude less and less. Thanks for Cody Ross and Nick Punto you fuck.

Sadly, I used to think much as you guys do, and I'll leave it at that.

[TheShynessClinic]

Wait - Did Sparky just lump me in with Weebs and Nip politically?

Don't get me wrong, they're great men and great company to be associated with...but come on, I drove a Prius.

[bsj]

I tend to believe if the White House requests your presence, you attend. I dont hate Thomas for his choice. It is what it is. I wouldn't have done it, and I feel it adds a taint to the visit, but whatever. Win me another and you can not attend attend again, I dont care.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Wait - Did Sparky just lump me in with Weebs and Nip politically?

Don't get me wrong, they're great men and great company to be associated with...but come on, I drove a Prius.

Weebs is gonna shot you in the face with an AR-15.

[pedro1918]

It's the office which demands respect. We have had and unfortunately currently have lots of people dying for what it stands for.

The move Tim Thomas should have made was attend, shut up, shake his hand then afterwards use his same Facebook platform to say something like 'if he did his job 1/10th as well as we did, this country wouldn't be in this mess'. The process would have gone well, he would have made his point and fostered a team spirit even if people didn't agree with him. Then it would be on him to explain himself and if you wanted to ignore him you could just not follow his Facebook account.

According to Thomas, this wasn't about politics or party. I'm sure he would have said "they" instead of "he".

[TheShynessClinic]

Weebs is gonna shot you in the face with an AR-15.

I pick up my AK-47 this week.

It's on.

[locknload]

Someone got their V&N in my RMPS.

Although I agree with Nip and its 50 degrees in Jan. Something is up.

[Myt1]

Myt, you're not wrong in anything you've written here but... isn't there something to be said for picking your spots? Do the event with your teammates that in no way speaks to or infringes upon your beliefs, and then spout off with that facebook statement to every microphone in sight after the next game.

Admittedly, I approach these sorts of things from a different perspective because of what I do. But, you're really talking about a subjective matter of degree here, right? At some point, ones political beliefs could be so diametrically opposed to a head of ones state to the point where even meeting with him would infringe on ones beliefs, right?

As for the last bit, a statement after a game does not have the same rhetorical force and resulting audience as skipping a meeting with the President. It just doesn't. And I'd say that commenting on such in the lockerroom or press conference after a game would be a real affront to the team.

I think that's why its drawing this sort of reaction--no one seems really upset, but it's an eyeroll move. Would have been cool if he could have sucked it up for his teammates too.

We're not talking about a brutal dictator or some sort of despotic extreme here either, by the way. Standing there while he cracks some jokes is hardly a test of too much patience, right?

Again the subjectivity of degree issue. Obama just signed a bill that (might) allow for indefinite detention of american citizens without a trial and without a suspension of habeas corpus. Depending on how old you are, that might be the biggest assault on personal liberty in this nation in your lifetime.

First and foremost, Thomas absolutely has the right to decline that invitation. And everyone else has the right to agree with him or to criticize him. That's the interesting thing about the US.

What's sad, at least from my perspective, is that it seems as if everyone is talking about Tim Thomas this morning and not about the Bruins. Yesterday was really not a day about Obama nor was it a day about the Office of the Presidency. It was a day about the Bruins...or it was supposed to be. How sad for each of them that this morning, we're all talking about Tim Thomas, and President Obama, and the US government and even Theo Epstein.

No one has answered me on this one yet, but I'll ask again: what was the alternative?

"D'ya remember when the Bruins went to the White House yesterday?"

"Yes, Chris."

"That was awesome."

Edited by Myt1, 24 January 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[Myt1]

The CC's take

That's just an awesome example of internal contradiction and questioning the patriotism of those with opposing political views. Thomas was selfish for making yesterday about him, but what he really should have done was show up and then confront Obama in person while his team was being feted.

And, last time I checked, the USA jersey didn't have a politician's name one it.

[Brickowski]

That's just an awesome example of internal contradiction and questioning the patriotism of those with opposing political views. Thomas was selfish for making yesterday about him, but what he really should have done was show up and then confront Obama in person while his team was being feted.

And, last time I checked, the USA jersey didn't have a politician's name one it.

+1. What Thomas did is Bush league. If he feels so strongly, he should have made his views known to the President face to face, instead of sniping from a distance.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

Wait, did you totally miss the sarcasm in Myt1's post? Or am I missing sarcasm in yours?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I think Brick missed Myt1's point.

[Dewey for Prez]

This is one of those situations where the old axiom "it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and leave no doubt." or however that saying goes holds true. This is especially true if the comments attributed to him regarding not trusting science are accurate.

I'm in the camp of not wanting to hear the political opinions of any celebrity. Penn, the Baldwins, La Russa, Pujols, Garafalo. IMO they should all keep their opinions to themselves.





Edit for spelling. Spell ckecker turned Russa into Russia.

Edited by Dewey for Prez, 24 January 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[PedroSpecialK]

I think Brick missed Myt1's point.

[Myt1]

I don't even think I was being sarcastic, I was paraphrasing.

[smastroyin]

I don't think Tim's pov is new to anyone and I doubt the other guys give even a hair on the rats ass as long as he doesn't play like shit. He should have gone and it sucks that he didn't. The outrage and projection of statements seems to be the same old lefty bias of SoSH.

Also, I don't have time at the moment for an extensive search, but weren't Thomas's views well enough known that there was speculation about whether he would even make the trip right after they won?

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

They invited KABERLE?!?

[JohntheBaptist]

Admittedly, I approach these sorts of things from a different perspective because of what I do. But, you're really talking about a subjective matter of degree here, right? At some point, ones political beliefs could be so diametrically opposed to a head of ones state to the point where even meeting with him would infringe on ones beliefs, right?

Yes, and I definitely should have addressed this. Like your earlier post, I definitely don't think you're wrong, but I think the idea that this or any politician has currently crossed that threshhold is a bit much, just contextually. Normal people with obvious differences clearly bear his presence on a daily basis. Again, of course he had the right, and I don't doubt that he felt as strongly as you suggest. But again, to me, what's drawing the eye-rolls is that people recognize what you're saying here as the likely situation, and those pieces of information--"was asked to stand in a room with the President" "won't even do that because he considers him so evil,"--just plain read as ridiculous. He's not that evil, GWB wasn't that evil, and its a childish move. And I'd also add that the opposite approach--just going to the event--implies no endorsement or support on his part from anyone.

Skipping a meeting with the President has rhetorical force? Says who? Why is the goalie for the Bruins worried about his "rhetorical force"? If a postgame rant isn't good enough to get his message out, maybe run for office? Set up a website?

A little perspective and thinking outside of how things effect only himself would, I think, lead a rational person to see that anyone could probably locate something on a given President's ledger that would repulse them--this is a fact of life. Again, it is a matter of degree yes, but the the second Tim Thomas started turning those things into reasons in his head for him not to go instead of things he was just going to have to let drop as, say, a gesture to his teammates for this event, he started losing people. Justifiably so. I guess I'm making a real-world call on Thomas' subjective level of degree here, and since I'm not appending that with a declaration of what he can/ can't do, I think it goes a long way toward describing why people see it as selfish. His own matter of degree doesn't pass the smell test for a lot of people given the circumstances, not that they don't believe he genuinely got there.

[Myt1]

Skipping a meeting with the President has rhetorical force? Says who?

All the people who don't know a skate from a ray who are talking about it on facebook.

Why is the goalie for the Bruins worried about his "rhetorical force"?

<Burp> Why not?

[BoSoxFink]

I don't think Tim's pov is new to anyone and I doubt the other guys give even a hair on the rats ass as long as he doesn't play like shit. He should have gone and it sucks that he didn't. The outrage and projection of statements seems to be the same old lefty bias of SoSH. Also, I don't have time at the moment for an extensive search, but weren't Thomas's views well enough known that there was speculation about whether he would even make the trip right after they won?

I think a lot of the confusion keeps coming in on the fact that people are claiming it has to do with politics. While I agree that with some people I am sure it does, I think there are many of us who don't give a rat's ass about it. I don't see a lot of the comments being lefty bias here, we are more worried about how this could possibly affect the team going forward.

It may very well not, but with the shitstorm that has been stirred up there is always a possibility that something could happen. That is really all I, or most Bruins fans care about in this situation I think.