I think you really have to question if Tiger is going to win another tournament (other than one like his own he won at the end of last year). In Dubai he was in the final pairing with some guy and got out-dueled, and today, playing with his old favorite punching bag Lefty, gets owned and fades out of the picture. The air of invincibility, especially on Sunday, is totally gone.
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2012 PGA Tour
Started by
Freddy Linn
, Jan 13 2012 11:27 PM
841 replies to this topic
#102
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:16 PM
I'd be surprised if Tiger didn't win at least two more Masters.
#103
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:43 PM
I think you really have to question if Tiger is going to win another tournament (other than one like his own he won at the end of last year). In Dubai he was in the final pairing with some guy and got out-dueled, and today, playing with his old favorite punching bag Lefty, gets owned and fades out of the picture. The air of invincibility, especially on Sunday, is totally gone.
Agreed. I'm tired of reading about how Tiger is back any time he strings together a couple of decent rounds. Tiger will be back when he wins another major. Until then I don't want to hear about it.
In the meantime, he might want to stop shooting 75 with Phil Mickelson standing next to him on Sunday and just win a regulation tour event.
#104
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:17 PM
I think you really have to question if Tiger is going to win another tournament (other than one like his own he won at the end of last year). In Dubai he was in the final pairing with some guy and got out-dueled, and today, playing with his old favorite punching bag Lefty, gets owned and fades out of the picture. The air of invincibility, especially on Sunday, is totally gone.
He'll win more tournaments, but I just don't believe he is ever going to be Back in the way some people expect. I wouldn't bet on him getting back to #1 in the world again (his lack of tournaments played will hurt there). and he may win more majors, but
In terms of the Masters I do wonder how the new high fade is going to really play at Augusta. I always thought that was a course designed for a draw
#105
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Koko the Monkey
Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:34 AM
He'll win more tournaments, but I just don't believe he is ever going to be Back in the way some people expect. I wouldn't bet on him getting back to #1 in the world again (his lack of tournaments played will hurt there). and he may win more majors, but
In terms of the Masters I do wonder how the new high fade is going to really play at Augusta. I always thought that was a course designed for a draw
That Nicklaus guy and his power fade did okay at Augusta a few times.
#106
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Don't touch his dog food
Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:56 PM
Couples and his high fade have it figured ok historically...Jack played a different Augusta.
Augusta favors a draw off the tee on 2, 5, 9, 10, 13, and 17. A high controlled fade works fine on 5, 9, and 17. Tiger hits it over the Eisenhower tree anyway. Long hitters usually hit 3 wood on 10 and let the bank kick it down the hill.
So that leaves 2 and 13 where he needs a draw if he wants. 2 is a three shot par 5, so its not essential, 13 is what it is, and I think he'll have a draw ready if he absolutely needs a putt for eagle. But a draw on 13 is where he's always had an advantage over Lefty.
Augusta favors a draw off the tee on 2, 5, 9, 10, 13, and 17. A high controlled fade works fine on 5, 9, and 17. Tiger hits it over the Eisenhower tree anyway. Long hitters usually hit 3 wood on 10 and let the bank kick it down the hill.
So that leaves 2 and 13 where he needs a draw if he wants. 2 is a three shot par 5, so its not essential, 13 is what it is, and I think he'll have a draw ready if he absolutely needs a putt for eagle. But a draw on 13 is where he's always had an advantage over Lefty.
#107
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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:25 AM
But a draw on 13 is where he's always had an advantage over Lefty.
I can only assume you mean a theoretical, on-paper advantage, because Phil absolutely dominates 13. It's his best hole at Augusta by far.
#108
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Don't touch his dog food
Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:07 PM
No, I mean the tee shot. Not the hole.
Tiger takes into the Sunday round a tee shot on 13 that Phil doesn't have, a power draw around the corner. It's high risk high reward and he rarely does it, but Tiger, if he absolutely needs an eagle on 13, has the ability to hit a shot off the tee that Phil doesn't have, and that hole becomes Driver - 8 iron. The reason he rarely does it is if he tries 10 times, he's probably in the creek 2/10, he probably blocks it right 2/10, and he probably has a lost ball left woods 1/10. So its not worth it unless its special circumstances.
The reason Phil plays the hole so well is that a fade from a lefty plays into the green better than a fade or draw from a righty. So the tee shot sets up good for a righty and the second shot sets up better for a lefty.
I was a bit lazy in my analysis, since Tiger rarely hits that shot, its not much of an advantage at all. Sortof a trump card he rarely plays.
Tiger takes into the Sunday round a tee shot on 13 that Phil doesn't have, a power draw around the corner. It's high risk high reward and he rarely does it, but Tiger, if he absolutely needs an eagle on 13, has the ability to hit a shot off the tee that Phil doesn't have, and that hole becomes Driver - 8 iron. The reason he rarely does it is if he tries 10 times, he's probably in the creek 2/10, he probably blocks it right 2/10, and he probably has a lost ball left woods 1/10. So its not worth it unless its special circumstances.
The reason Phil plays the hole so well is that a fade from a lefty plays into the green better than a fade or draw from a righty. So the tee shot sets up good for a righty and the second shot sets up better for a lefty.
I was a bit lazy in my analysis, since Tiger rarely hits that shot, its not much of an advantage at all. Sortof a trump card he rarely plays.
#109
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:33 PM
Sergio Garcia absolutely on fire at Riveria, 8 under through 12 holes and only three off the lead. He will most likely run out of holes but is on pace to post a silly number.
#110
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King of the Avatards
Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:16 PM
Keegan Bradley has a lot of yips going on before every shot. It is getting uncomfortable to watch. That said, he's still hanging in there, but he looks like Knoblach trying to practice throwing to first on every practice swing.
#111
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Turkey Virgin
Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:45 PM
Anyone see Dustin Johnson hold the green with a 5 iron from the trap? Impressive.
#113
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:39 PM
Amazing finish. Bradley's putt looked like it just barely trickled in.
#114
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King of the Avatards
Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:40 PM
Amazing finish. Bradley's putt looked like it just barely trickled in.
Two really awesome putts, I can't get enough of the replay of the guy who rolled over past the barriers and was slamming the grass around the green after Phil drained the putt. Pretty cool. I'm rooting for Mick or Keegan.
#115
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:41 PM
Just an awesome finish. No way I thought Phil would do it after coming up one revolution short at 17
#117
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:08 PM
Keegan is a schizo that cannot stand still, but really fun to watch.
#118
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:08 PM
10, what a great hole for a playoff. and what sucky shots from all of them
#119
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King of the Avatards
Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:13 PM
10, what a great hole for a playoff. and what sucky shots from all of them
Oh Phil. Oh Phil. Not good.
#120
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:17 PM
Holy shit what a putt from Haas.
Great tournament, really needed that after the B's game.
Great tournament, really needed that after the B's game.
Edited by LogansDad, 19 February 2012 - 07:19 PM.
#121
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:21 PM
What a 3, what an amazing month of professional golf February has been
#122
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King of the Avatards
Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:23 PM
What a 3, what an amazing month of professional golf February has been
True, for a normally dead time it has been excellent. Great tourneys. Back to back by Phil would have been impressive, but Haas nailed a pretty impressive putt.
#123
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Don't touch his dog food
Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:48 PM
Looking back at the 10th hole, I fail to see the risk reward to hitting driver or three wood. That green is jail specifically with that pin position.
I didn't watch the whole day, but where exactly was the tee shot supposed to go? Three different spots, three different versions of jail. I'm guessing they were aiming to be at the front of the green, but holy hell, not an easy shot. Lots of places to miss, nono of them good. Only one of them was on the green after the second shots, and he happened to win the playoff. As much as it sucks, 7 iron - wedge.
I didn't watch the whole day, but where exactly was the tee shot supposed to go? Three different spots, three different versions of jail. I'm guessing they were aiming to be at the front of the green, but holy hell, not an easy shot. Lots of places to miss, nono of them good. Only one of them was on the green after the second shots, and he happened to win the playoff. As much as it sucks, 7 iron - wedge.
#124
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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:39 AM
Looking back at the 10th hole, I fail to see the risk reward to hitting driver or three wood. That green is jail specifically with that pin position.
I didn't watch the whole day, but where exactly was the tee shot supposed to go? Three different spots, three different versions of jail. I'm guessing they were aiming to be at the front of the green, but holy hell, not an easy shot. Lots of places to miss, nono of them good. Only one of them was on the green after the second shots, and he happened to win the playoff. As much as it sucks, 7 iron - wedge.
That may be the smart play. Phil did hit 3 wood, and I think Keegan may have. I will admit I was surprised that after seeing Phil and keegan in jail that Bill didn't just pull the 7 iron out. On the other hand, I guss it is not exactly an easy wedge shot in to a tiny portion of a tiny green
#125
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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:02 AM
The analysts during the broadcast seemed to be saying that the play was to go for the green and if you wound up long it wasn't a bad place to be, or at least not as bad as where any of them actually ended up. Like if they were pitching their second shot out of the bunker Phil was in on his third shot or pitching from the rough behind that, that was a higher percentage chance for birdie than laying up and trying to hit a wedge close from the fairway. They were praising Haas for hitting driver after Phil and Keegan came up short with their woods, then he hit it off line to the left. None of them seemed to indicate the smart play was to club down and keep it in the fairway.
#126
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Mrs. Dennis Wideman
Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:06 AM
Considering Haas had gone Birdie, Bogey, Bogey, Birdie in his 4 previous attempts at that hole I was really torn as to what he should do after Phil and Keegan both were in the shithouse. His performance on that hole during the week really exemplified the risk/reward of going for it on that hole, so in a sudden death type format going for it seemed like the right play. On the other hand, after Phil and Keegan were in trouble, it became a little less cut and dry for me. Hass couldn't have known what sort of lie either of them had and Phil is a magician with a wedge in his hand, so I can justify Bill going for it there.
#127
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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:21 PM
When you look at the hole you realize there is just almost no place to put the tee shot and have an easy second. Looks like front center of green of course is ideal, or chipping from right in front of the green, but almost as close to the front left bunker as you can get.
A 7 Iron followed by wedge requires a absolute pinpoint second shot to get within 15 feet, and to avoid the bunkers. I guess maybe if you go to the very edge of the fairway just in front of and to the left of the front left bunker, then you at least have a good attack angel
A 7 Iron followed by wedge requires a absolute pinpoint second shot to get within 15 feet, and to avoid the bunkers. I guess maybe if you go to the very edge of the fairway just in front of and to the left of the front left bunker, then you at least have a good attack angel
#128
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Don't touch his dog food
Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:39 PM
I wish I had seen the whole tournament or even paid more attention in the past when they're at Riviera. That hole is just amazing. Yielded 6 birdies on Sunday, 73 players (includes the playoff).
BigMike, I agree, the play, probably all week, is to somehow hit the tee shot in the area of the fairway that approaches the green just past that bunker. Thanks for posting that hole picture. Since Phil ended up short of the bunker in front of the green, I'm guessing he was looking for it in that exact spot. Crazy hole as there really is not easy layup that gives you an easy 100 yards in. The only advantage is those guys are deadly from that distance, but spin and bite would be a factor with the pin on Sunday. Just crazy because even safe plays have a factor of luck involved that you can't control.
BigMike, I agree, the play, probably all week, is to somehow hit the tee shot in the area of the fairway that approaches the green just past that bunker. Thanks for posting that hole picture. Since Phil ended up short of the bunker in front of the green, I'm guessing he was looking for it in that exact spot. Crazy hole as there really is not easy layup that gives you an easy 100 yards in. The only advantage is those guys are deadly from that distance, but spin and bite would be a factor with the pin on Sunday. Just crazy because even safe plays have a factor of luck involved that you can't control.
#129
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:37 PM
Match Play!
BOBBY JONES BRACKET:
12:05 p.m. — Luke Donald (1) vs. Ernie Els (16);
12:15 p.m. — Jason Dufner (8) vs. Peter Hanson (9);
10:45 a.m. — K.J. Choi (4) vs. Kyle Stanley (13);
10:55 a.m. — Brandt Snedeker (5) vs. Retief Goosen (12);
9:25 a.m. — Adam Scott (2) vs. Robert Rock (15);
9:35 a.m. — Bo Van Pelt (7) vs. Mark Wilson (10);
8:05 a.m. — Dustin Johnson (3) vs. Jim Furyk (14);
8:15 a.m. — Thomas Bjorn (6) vs. Francesco Molinari (11).
BEN HOGAN BRACKET
11:25 a.m. — Martin Kaymer (1) vs. Greg Chalmers (16);
11:35 a.m. — David Toms (8) vs. Rickie Fowler (9);
10:05 a.m. — Matt Kuchar (4) vs. Jonathan Byrd (13);
10:15 a.m. — Bubba Watson (5) vs. Ben Crane (12);
8:45 a.m. — Steve Stricker (2) vs. Kevin Na (15);
8:55 a.m. — Louis Oosthuizen (7) vs. Aaron Baddeley (10);
7:25 a.m. — Graeme McDowell (3) vs. Y.E. Yang (14);
7:35 a.m. — Hunter Mahan (6) vs. Zach Johnson (11).
GARY PLAYER BRACKET
12:25 p.m. — Rory McIlroy (1) vs. George Coetzee (16);
12:35 p.m. — Kyung-tae Kim (8) vs. Anders Hansen (9);
11:05 a.m. — Sergio Garcia (4) vs. Miguel Angel Jimenez (13);
11:15 a.m. — Keegan Bradley (5) vs. Geoff Ogilvy (12);
9:45 a.m. — Jason Day (2) vs. R.C. Bello (15);
9:55 a.m. — Simon Dyson (7) vs. John Senden (10);
8:25 a.m. — Charl Schwartzel (3) vs. Gary Woodland (14);
8:35 a.m. — Ian Poulter (6) vs. Sang-moon Bae (11).
SAM SNEAD BRACKET
11:45 a.m. — Lee Westwood (1) vs Nicolas Colsaerts (16);
11:55 a.m. — Robert Karlsson (8) vs. Fredrik Jacobson (9);
10:25 a.m. — Nick Watney (4) vs. Darren Clarke (13);
10:35 a.m. — Tiger Woods (5) vs. Gonzalo Fernandez-Castano (12);
9:05 a.m. — Webb Simpson (2) vs. Matteo Manassero (15);
9:15 a.m. — Alvaro Quiros (7) vs. Martin Laird (10);
7:45 a.m. — Bill Haas (3) vs. Ryo Ishikawa (14);
7:55 a.m. — Justin Rose (6) vs. Paul Lawrie (11).
On the Golf Channel, Tiger just teed off. Simpson and Dustin Johnson are already 3 down.
BOBBY JONES BRACKET:
12:05 p.m. — Luke Donald (1) vs. Ernie Els (16);
12:15 p.m. — Jason Dufner (8) vs. Peter Hanson (9);
10:45 a.m. — K.J. Choi (4) vs. Kyle Stanley (13);
10:55 a.m. — Brandt Snedeker (5) vs. Retief Goosen (12);
9:25 a.m. — Adam Scott (2) vs. Robert Rock (15);
9:35 a.m. — Bo Van Pelt (7) vs. Mark Wilson (10);
8:05 a.m. — Dustin Johnson (3) vs. Jim Furyk (14);
8:15 a.m. — Thomas Bjorn (6) vs. Francesco Molinari (11).
BEN HOGAN BRACKET
11:25 a.m. — Martin Kaymer (1) vs. Greg Chalmers (16);
11:35 a.m. — David Toms (8) vs. Rickie Fowler (9);
10:05 a.m. — Matt Kuchar (4) vs. Jonathan Byrd (13);
10:15 a.m. — Bubba Watson (5) vs. Ben Crane (12);
8:45 a.m. — Steve Stricker (2) vs. Kevin Na (15);
8:55 a.m. — Louis Oosthuizen (7) vs. Aaron Baddeley (10);
7:25 a.m. — Graeme McDowell (3) vs. Y.E. Yang (14);
7:35 a.m. — Hunter Mahan (6) vs. Zach Johnson (11).
GARY PLAYER BRACKET
12:25 p.m. — Rory McIlroy (1) vs. George Coetzee (16);
12:35 p.m. — Kyung-tae Kim (8) vs. Anders Hansen (9);
11:05 a.m. — Sergio Garcia (4) vs. Miguel Angel Jimenez (13);
11:15 a.m. — Keegan Bradley (5) vs. Geoff Ogilvy (12);
9:45 a.m. — Jason Day (2) vs. R.C. Bello (15);
9:55 a.m. — Simon Dyson (7) vs. John Senden (10);
8:25 a.m. — Charl Schwartzel (3) vs. Gary Woodland (14);
8:35 a.m. — Ian Poulter (6) vs. Sang-moon Bae (11).
SAM SNEAD BRACKET
11:45 a.m. — Lee Westwood (1) vs Nicolas Colsaerts (16);
11:55 a.m. — Robert Karlsson (8) vs. Fredrik Jacobson (9);
10:25 a.m. — Nick Watney (4) vs. Darren Clarke (13);
10:35 a.m. — Tiger Woods (5) vs. Gonzalo Fernandez-Castano (12);
9:05 a.m. — Webb Simpson (2) vs. Matteo Manassero (15);
9:15 a.m. — Alvaro Quiros (7) vs. Martin Laird (10);
7:45 a.m. — Bill Haas (3) vs. Ryo Ishikawa (14);
7:55 a.m. — Justin Rose (6) vs. Paul Lawrie (11).
On the Golf Channel, Tiger just teed off. Simpson and Dustin Johnson are already 3 down.
#131
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:02 PM
and TW is already behind
And now he is playing left-handed because of a bush despite his opponent hitting first into another bush in the desert. On a par 5. Idiotic decision.
#132
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:02 PM
So these guys must practuce lefty. Tigers' lefthanded shot form was almost impeccable
#133
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:12 PM
This guy is gonna putt Tiger right out of the competition
#134
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM
The wheels have fallen off for Castano
#135
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:57 PM
Eight matches done, two 14 seeds and three 11 seeds advancing. Two 10 seeds are about to advance.
Edit: Manassero advances as a 15. Bloodbath for the higher seeds.
Edit: Manassero advances as a 15. Bloodbath for the higher seeds.
Edited by Freddy Linn, 22 February 2012 - 03:02 PM.
#136
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:09 PM
This is as bad as I've seen Tiger in several months. All over the place on the tee and is missing a ton of putts.
#137
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King of the Avatards
Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:45 PM
This is as bad as I've seen Tiger in several months. All over the place on the tee and is missing a ton of putts.
That seems about the norm for Tiger these days. There was a column in the NY Times today about his putting percentage from 5 feet and in. He's getting worse and worse.
Tiger Woods Can't Hit Short Putts
And if he can't hit those putts, he won't win like he used to.
#138
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:08 PM
Never seen so many hole-outs from off the greens.
#139
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:23 PM
Dormie 3 and losing on the 19th. Brutal.
#140
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:16 PM
vintage Tiger up and down to win 1up
#141
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:11 PM
Rory melting down. He was dormie on 15, and has dropped the last 2 holes to Coetzee. To 18 they go.
Shitty approach by Coetzee probably ends thing. Door was open, but it'll take a miracle to complete the comeback now.
Shitty approach by Coetzee probably ends thing. Door was open, but it'll take a miracle to complete the comeback now.
Edited by cshea, 22 February 2012 - 07:24 PM.
#142
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:54 PM
Tiger's throwing clubs today. One down to Watney, who positioned Heidi in Tiger's line on every shot, just to see how his concentration is holding up these days.
#143
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:59 PM
Tiger just hit a shot lefthanded for the second day in a row. Chunked it 10 yards from next to a cactus plant. He's still all square, going one down in a few moments after 10 holes, assuming Watney doesn't have a heart attack.
#144
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:13 PM
Well, this is more like the old Tiger. Just hit a 275-pound three-wood "stinger" to 20 feet. Watney was 280 away and came up 20 yards short of the green, hitting a fade that landed softly. Tiger probably has to make eagle to win the hole.
#145
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:27 PM
Watney halves 11 with a bird, then birdies 12 while Tiger plays in the sand.
#146
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:39 PM
No. 13 is a 583-yard par five. Watnery's tee shot goes 350 in the desert air, Tiger's travels 360. Watney misses green to the right, with a 5-iron. Tiger hits 7 from 223 and sees the ball spin off the green down next to Nick's ball.
I would rather watch other guys in this tourney but GolfChanel won't let me.
I would rather watch other guys in this tourney but GolfChanel won't let me.
#147
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King of the Avatards
Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:02 PM
Tiger literally can't hit a putt.
#148
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:13 PM
He hits putts the way we do. Had a five-footer yesterday to close out the match and hit it 3 feet past the hole. Just made a rare birdie that Watney matched. Nick two-up with three to go. He's very solid. No way he loses this match.Tiger literally can't hit a putt.
Edited by terrynever, 23 February 2012 - 05:13 PM.
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:15 PM
The jinx works. Watney just hit one left of the tent on par 3 200-yard 16.
#150
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:56 PM
Tiger's got a very makeable putt on 18 to extend the match. Inside 10 feet.
No dice.
No dice.
Edited by cshea, 23 February 2012 - 05:57 PM.
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