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Heyman: Montero for Pineda


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#51 curly2

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:03 PM

Yeah, I'd say he has #3 ceiling instead of #4, but that's just quibbling. He is already 25 too, Campos is only 19 (!).

Yeah, that makes no sense.

And BTW, if it comes out in a few months that Montero is actually older than the Yankees claim, I will beat Jack Zduriencik to death with a shovel.

#52 jon abbey


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:05 PM

wouldn't be shocked to see the Yankees make a move for Prince Fielder


I would, I think even Carlos Pena is pushing their budget past where they wanted to go. Olney just reported that even Kuroda was past where they wanted to go, but there must be at least one more move on the way.

#53 Saby

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

There's been reports of Rays being interested in bringing back Pena on a 1 year deal and they have a hole at 1B. So signing Pena could be beneficial in more ways than one.

#54 Mike in CT



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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

I would, I think even Carlos Pena is pushing their budget past where they wanted to go. Olney just reported that even Kuroda was past where they wanted to go, but there must be at least one more move on the way.



hahahahaha. Yes. Back for 2012, it's the "Yankee Budget", ladies and gentlemen.

#55 kazuneko

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

Jesus...
Since when are power-hitting prospects without a position worth 22 year-old power pitchers with a successful season under their belts...
This is a total joke.
Even if Montero ends up being a stud this is a crazy trade based on current values. I guess Zduriencik must be 100% certain Montero can play the field and has the bat to be a superstar. But, to be that certain on a prospect..well, its a bit crazy. Also, was this really the highest bid he could get for Pineda? And why again did he have to throw in Campos...? For the smaller market Seattle, this is also one of those rare horrible trades that had nothing to do with money. As Pineda is cost controlled for years to come you'd think he is exactly the type of player that should have even more value to every team other than the Yanks.
So much for that genius label....

Edited by kazuneko, 13 January 2012 - 09:43 PM.


#56 sketz

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:38 PM

Quite the rotation makeover for the Yanks at nice prices.
So ready for this offseason to end.

#57 srpat

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:42 PM

Not sure this link will work after today but some Seattle fans seem pleased.

http://www.seattlepi...98-9428ee12101a

If the link does not work then go to:

http://www.seattlepi.com/

and dig to find the forum site

Edited by srpat, 13 January 2012 - 09:55 PM.


#58 nvalvo


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:50 PM

This deal reminds me of all of those Matt Cain for Prince Fielder deals everyone was throwing around back in 2009-10. Then SF won the world series and it's all: Sabean's a genius for not dealing his pitching surplus for a bat.

When the offense is that bad, balance seems attractive, but Montero, unless he can actually catch, isn't enough to get the Mariners' offense past mediocrity. But a great rotation can actually be the basis for a contending team.

#59 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:21 PM

I'm also expecting the Yankees to sign Fielder.

One of the reasons Fielder has not yet signed is likely due to the fact that Boras is aware of the Yankees interest. The Yankees just needed to free up the DH spot, which they did in trading Montero. The next logical step is Fielder, as the Yankees collect all-stars at almost every position.

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees intend to get under the luxury tax. Quite the contrary, the Yankees are likely to increase their spending to further undermine competitive balance. That is what the Yankees do. As teams like the Red Sox and Angels spend more, the Yankees increase their own spending, to maintain their advantage.

Moreover, the wild card will soon be a major negative in comparison to winning the division. By signing Fielder and trading for Pineda, the Yankees would lock up first place for years to come, leaving the Rays and Red Sox to fight for the wild card and roll the dice on the one game playoff.

#60 Doctor G

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

I'm also expecting the Yankees to sign Fielder.

One of the reasons Fielder has not yet signed is likely due to the fact that Boras is aware of the Yankees interest. The Yankees just needed to free up the DH spot, which they did in trading Montero. The next logical step is Fielder, as the Yankees collect all-stars at almost every position.

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees intend to get under the luxury tax. Quite the contrary, the Yankees are likely to increase their spending to further undermine competitive balance. That is what the Yankees do. As teams like the Red Sox and Angels spend more, the Yankees increase their own spending, to maintain their advantage.

Moreover, the wild card will soon be a major negative in comparison to winning the division. By signing Fielder and trading for Pineda, the Yankees would lock up first place for years to come, leaving the Rays and Red Sox to fight for the wild card and roll the dice on the one game playoff.

For the yankees to sign Fielder they would have to increase their payroll to ~ 235Mil. the lux tax hit on this would be about 22 million,. i don't think they are willing to blow up their so-called budget to that degree. If Boras is willing to go short years on Fielder, the Yankees won't be the only team interested.

Edited by Doctor G, 13 January 2012 - 11:11 PM.


#61 Doctor G

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:15 PM

There's been reports of Rays being interested in bringing back Pena on a 1 year deal and they have a hole at 1B. So signing Pena could be beneficial in more ways than one.

i doubt that Pena is interested in a strict DH role. He is a position player.

#62 melonbag

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:17 PM

This is a very good trade for the Yanks. Most Yankee haters I've spoken too hate this deal.

Fielder has no chance to be a Yankee unless he agrees to a 2 year deal. Kuroda gives Banuelos another year to get ready.

#63 Meff Nelton

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:21 PM

I'm not saying don't trade him under any circumstances, but don't do it for one season of anybody. And if you find a player worth doing it for, you should at least be getting a discount contract-wise versus what you would pay on the market.


Exactly. Though there's still a hell of a huge risk in trading for a 23 yo pitcher, five years of team control, and two pre-arb years is fucking sweet. The prospect is wonderfull leverage for Pineda as well. Short of Hernandez, there aren't a ton of better pitchers the Yankees could have moved Montero for.

#64 Doctor G

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:36 PM

delete

Edited by Doctor G, 13 January 2012 - 11:39 PM.


#65 MakMan44


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:40 PM

Exactly. Though there's still a hell of a huge risk in trading for a 23 yo pitcher, five years of team control, and two pre-arb years is fucking sweet. The prospect is wonderfull leverage for Pineda as well. Short of Hernandez, there aren't a ton of better pitchers the Yankees could have moved Montero for.


https://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/status/157986574699724800
link to tweet

That's the thing though, Heyman says that they did try to get Felix originally but were turned down. If I was a Yankee fan, I'd be wondering why the M's would be willing to give up Pineda (Cost Controlled for longer) over Felix especially when you consider the package Felix would have gotten from the Yankees.

#66 Meff Nelton

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:48 PM

https://twitter.com/...986574699724800

That's the thing though, Heyman says that they did try to get Felix originally but were turned down. If I was a Yankee fan, I'd be wondering why the M's would be willing to give up Pineda (Cost Controlled for longer) over Felix especially when you consider the package Felix would have gotten from the Yankees.


Well, it's pretty obvious that the M's don't view themselves as rebuilding.

Hernandez is one of the ten best SPs in MLB, and he's pretty much gotten through the injury nexus unscathed. Combine that with the fact that he's the 1b Face of the Franchise, and it's obvious why the Mariners are more reluctant to trade him than the kid who showed potential to possibly one day get close to his level. Even considering his salary and length of control, I'd expect the Yankees would have had to pay much more to acquire the King than they did Pineda. But Z obviously sees the Mariners having a run in them at some point while Hernandez is under contract, and made a move to bring themselves closer to just such an outcome. In short, they need bats.

#67 jon abbey


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:51 PM

Also King Felix is the face of the franchise and has been for years (along with Ichiro), there's a fan factor/attendance involved there, especially when Seattle likely won't be anything close to a .500 team again this year.

#68 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:53 PM

https://twitter.com/...986574699724800

That's the thing though, Heyman says that they did try to get Felix originally but were turned down. If I was a Yankee fan, I'd be wondering why the M's would be willing to give up Pineda (Cost Controlled for longer) over Felix especially when you consider the package Felix would have gotten from the Yankees.


If the Mariners trade Felix, they would experience widespread discontent within their fan base. King Feliz is the most popular player on the team. Thus, the Mariners can't trade Felix without greatly reducing gate revenue.

Trading Pineda is more doable for the Mariners, since they have a few talented young pitchers in their system, but they didn't get enough in return. Montero is a DH-type, whereas they should trade Pineda for a 2-way player with more speed, as that would be a better approach for that ballpark.

#69 MakMan44


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:55 PM

Well, it's pretty obvious that the M's don't view themselves as rebuilding.

Hernandez is one of the ten best SPs in MLB, and he's pretty much gotten through the injury nexus unscathed. Combine that with the fact that he's the 1b Face of the Franchise, and it's obvious why the Mariners are more reluctant to trade him than the kid who showed potential to possibly one day get close to his level. Even considering his salary and length of control, I'd expect the Yankees would have had to pay much more to acquire the King than they did Pineda. But Z obviously sees the Mariners having a run in them at some point while Hernandez is under contract, and made a move to bring themselves closer to just such an outcome. In short, they need bats.


I guess, its just a little crazy because its so rare for a guy who will be owed ~60 mill over the next 3 seasons to worth more to the franchise than a 23 YO power pitcher who's under control for 5 more seasons.

#70 SoxScout


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:55 PM

Also King Felix is the face of the franchise and has been for years (along with Ichiro), there's a fan factor/attendance involved there, especially when Seattle likely won't be anything close to a .500 team again this year.


Pretty shitty way to run a team in my opinion. If you are going to suck, for years, trade your crazy expensive asset for an epic haul and do rebuilding right.

But that's just me, enjoy your 15 sellouts, Seattle.

Edited by SoxScout, 13 January 2012 - 11:56 PM.


#71 MakMan44


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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:57 PM

Alright guys, you've convinced me that Felix is worth more to the M's. Still I really feel like the Yankees gave up so little in the deal, especially considering how good Campos could be.

#72 Robinson Checo

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:59 PM

I think this is a good move for the Ms. Losing Pineda will sting, but they have Danny Hultzen, Paxton, and Tajuan Walker in the pipeline. With Felix anchoring that staff for a few years to come, they will be competing for the wild card. Montero prevents them from laying out the cash for Fielder and Montero's bat makes Justin Smoak's bat better. Good move for Seattle, and along with Kuroda, a great move for the Yanks. All they have to do now is add Carlos Pena and the Sox are going to be in a dogfight for 2nd-4th with the Jays and Rays.

#73 Meff Nelton

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:00 AM

I guess, its just a little crazy because its so rare for a guy who will be owed ~60 mill over the next 3 seasons to worth more to the franchise than a 23 YO power pitcher who's under control for 5 more seasons.


I think the deal for the Yankees is somewhere between a solid single and a double, but even with that perspective, the deal was still risk for risk. What is there, a 10-20% chance that the Yankees lose a year and a half of service time to TJ surgery? Or that Pineda loses velocity or control?

Z didn't trade Halladay, now.

#74 Meff Nelton

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:03 AM

Also King Felix is the face of the franchise and has been for years (along with Ichiro), there's a fan factor/attendance involved there, especially when Seattle likely won't be anything close to a .500 team again this year.


New avatar time?

#75 MakMan44


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:07 AM

I think the deal for the Yankees is somewhere between a solid single and a double, but even with that perspective, the deal was still risk for risk. What is there, a 10-20% chance that the Yankees lose a year and a half of service time to TJ surgery? Or that Pineda loses velocity or control?

Z didn't trade Halladay, now.

Looking at the packages that was gotten for Latos, Cahill and Gonzalez this offseason and it just seems that the M's should've shot for a little more in a package for Pineda. Granted Pineda has exactly one ML season under his belt but when we look back at this deal 2-3 years down the line Z will probably be kicking himself for not getting more for Pineda.

Edited by MakMan44, 14 January 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#76 Freddy Linn


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:08 AM

https://twitter.com/...986574699724800

That's the thing though, Heyman says that they did try to get Felix originally but were turned down. If I was a Yankee fan, I'd be wondering why the M's would be willing to give up Pineda (Cost Controlled for longer) over Felix especially when you consider the package Felix would have gotten from the Yankees.


I'm fairly certain Felix has never truly been on the table, despite what people may think. The "face of the franchise" thing goes beyond a slight bump in attendance. There is a 200-seat section of the ballpark ("The King's Court") where tickets are discounted to $30 for Felix's starts and you get a free T-shirt and a K sign:

Posted Image

Might not sound like much, but Section 150 is the energy of that ballpark, especially so for rainy mid-week dates. At least until the 2014 trading deadline.

#77 SoxScout


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:17 AM

I'm fairly certain Felix has never truly been on the table, despite what people may think. The "face of the franchise" thing goes beyond a slight bump in attendance. There is a 200-seat section of the ballpark ("The King's Court") where tickets are discounted to $30 for Felix's starts and you get a free T-shirt and a K sign:

Might not sound like much, but Section 150 is the energy of that ballpark, especially so for rainy mid-week dates. At least until the 2014 trading deadline.


I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Hire a Singe-A PR staff is you more fun at the park...... or better yet, realize your team has been horrifyingly bad while Felix was a stud making <$10M and start making serious changes to start heading in a winning direction.

#78 Wingack


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:29 AM

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Hire a Singe-A PR staff is you more fun at the park...... or better yet, realize your team has been horrifyingly bad while Felix was a stud making <$10M and start making serious changes to start heading in a winning direction.


Time for me to chime in. I think it was pretty obvious around these parts that I am a Montero fanboy but I love this deal and i agree with pretty much everything SoxScout has said.

If the Ms were going to make a move why not make a move that could bring them a huge haul that would have included Montero plus for Felix. It is a deal that makes sense for both squads but the Ms should have made a bigger move.

#79 jon abbey


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:36 AM

New avatar time?


Yeah, I was thinking about it, they're just so small now. I might have to go back to my old yellow one until/unless they get bigger...

#80 rembrat


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:39 AM

Dave Cameron's take:

http://www.ussmarine...-up-to-do-more/

Solid, as usual.

edit: a look at it for the Yankees

http://www.fangraphs...ont-pay-retail/

Edited by rembrat, 14 January 2012 - 12:41 AM.


#81 Van Everyman


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:45 AM

Any chance Bud vetoes this trade for "baseball reasons"?

(null)

#82 Freddy Linn


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:55 AM

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Hire a Singe-A PR staff is you more fun at the park...... or better yet, realize your team has been horrifyingly bad while Felix was a stud making <$10M and start making serious changes to start heading in a winning direction.


It isn't sarcasm.

On average, Seattle filled less than half of Safeco last year, or at a level on par with the Marlins. Hernandez's starts can bump that number up close to 80%.

The fact that they now have a borderline top 10 system that has 3 #1s or #2s is a sign of heading in a winning direction, but that isn't going to sell seats in the short-term. Ichiro is gone after this year. Felix is their crack, at least for the next two or three years.

#83 Hee-Seop's Fable

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

This is the first time in a long time I feel ill with how good of a move I think the Yankees just made.


That was pretty much my reaction hearing it coming home tonight. Running through their rotation in my head with Kuroda on top, Burnett didn't even cross my mind until 10 minutes later. They don't need him anymore, and Hughes and Joba can reside in a stacked bullpen. That's a scary rotation; much more imposing than the Sox unless Buchholz and Lester really step up and regularly crank out 425 innings of <3.5 FIP's combined. My avatar's body language pretty much sums up my sentiments.

What was Pineda's setback in 2009 that he only faced 178 batters all year?

#84 greek_gawd_of_walks


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:14 AM

I've thought of trying to run with how Pineda struggled in the second half or how he had pronounced home/ road splits to diminish this trade for NY, but I can't. It's an excellent deal for them. Not to mention getting Campos. Seattle got a nice piece (it will be interesting to see how Montero's power translates out in Safeco), but felt like they could have held out for a bit more than Noesi. I like Noesi, but not that much. To me, it seems Seattle should have gotten a high upside guy like Campos, instead of trading him away.

No matter the switch of pitching in Seattle to NY. Strikeouts translate anywhere. And he strikes out a bunch of fellas. Great trade for NY. A huge coup.

#85 MuellerMen

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:19 AM

I think this is a good move for the Ms. Losing Pineda will sting, but they have Danny Hultzen, Paxton, and Tajuan Walker in the pipeline. With Felix anchoring that staff for a few years to come, they will be competing for the wild card. Montero prevents them from laying out the cash for Fielder and Montero's bat makes Justin Smoak's bat better. Good move for Seattle, and along with Kuroda, a great move for the Yanks. All they have to do now is add Carlos Pena and the Sox are going to be in a dogfight for 2nd-4th with the Jays and Rays.


On a purely subjective level, I actually like that the Yanks now will be considered the front runner next season. The Sox didn't seem to do too well with that moniker when they had it last season. Take away the pressure and up the motivation from their lost season - again from a purely subjective point of view, it might not be such a bad thing.

#86 Hee-Seop's Fable

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:28 AM

I'm also expecting the Yankees to sign Fielder.

One of the reasons Fielder has not yet signed is likely due to the fact that Boras is aware of the Yankees interest. The Yankees just needed to free up the DH spot, which they did in trading Montero. The next logical step is Fielder, as the Yankees collect all-stars at almost every position.

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees intend to get under the luxury tax. Quite the contrary, the Yankees are likely to increase their spending to further undermine competitive balance. That is what the Yankees do. As teams like the Red Sox and Angels spend more, the Yankees increase their own spending, to maintain their advantage.

Moreover, the wild card will soon be a major negative in comparison to winning the division. By signing Fielder and trading for Pineda, the Yankees would lock up first place for years to come, leaving the Rays and Red Sox to fight for the wild card and roll the dice on the one game playoff.

I wouldn't bet 10 cents against this. As much as Fielder wants to be a fielder, he'd surely rather get 8+ years, and who else has the resources to give him that right now? He's 4 years younger than Teixeira, so he could get some time @ 1B.

There's no way the Yankees concern with their "budget" is really being driven by anything other than a guilty conscience. They may have some stadium debt, but they still are way in the black. While they have shown much more restraint WRT drunken sailor style spending, they still are more driven by winning than by keeping their payroll in line with the rest of MLB.

They are not underwater in any way, shape, or form:

http://www.forbes.co...ees_334613.html

edit: non secquitur quote gone.

Edited by Hee-Seop's Fable, 14 January 2012 - 01:32 AM.


#87 MikeM

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:57 AM

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees intend to get under the luxury tax. Quite the contrary, the Yankees are likely to increase their spending to further undermine competitive balance. That is what the Yankees do. As teams like the Red Sox and Angels spend more, the Yankees increase their own spending, to maintain their advantage.


Ding ding ding.

That said, it's still a gigantic jump atm from there to seeing a current need to hand Fielder some careless 8 year contract. I mean barring that one blip on the screen in 2008, it's not like the MFY are the ones here failing to "buy" their way into perenial playoff contention.

Now if Fielder ends up being out there on short term dollars (which is a pretty scary potential reality atm/imo), and Cashman veiws that as an ideal enough opportunity to really solidify a title run, well that's a different kind of story.

#88 abty

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:42 AM

I believe in Montero so it's fair to have to trade him for Pineda. What I don't get is why they never have to send 2 good players for a very talented player. Ever. They never get fleeced. It's uncanny. It's as if the owners of all of these teams want the Yankees to always get better/stay strong. How many years have we had threads where we said a team bends over for them? It's unreal. Consider the Giants losing Zach Wheeler for 2 months of Beltran. Imagine what Pineda would have gotten on the market last July. Probably a lot more than Montero.

Noesi is typical Austin Jackson/Keisler type trash that always provide the 'filler' in a trade where the Yankees fuck the other team. You find me one team that cleans up as much as the Yankees in trades. It's god damn ridiculous. The Yankees will NEVER have to send 2 good players/real prospects in a trade. Ever. I don't get it. As a Met fan, I can't even imagine what it would take to get Pineda.

#89 billy ashley

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:42 AM

I get the excitement from Yankee fans and the dread from my fellow sox fans, but I think we're kind underselling how valuable Montero is at the moment.

He's one of the games ten best prospects, even with serous questions revolving around whether or not he can stay behind the plate. His likely projection as a hitter is that of a guy with an .850+ OPS, his optimistic projections are that he'll be one of the best hitters in baseball. If the guy can even just pretend to be a catcher, his value is incredible; if he has to move to 1b or DH (which is of course likely), he still likely has a damn good chance at being a starter on a first division club for a decade.

For New York, the trade made sense. For them, Montero basically has to be passable behind the plate. For the Mariners, who don't have the same need for a open DH spot, either outcome would be fine (though one would obviously be preferable).

Edited by billy ashley, 14 January 2012 - 08:50 AM.


#90 Toe Nash

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:59 AM

Dave Cameron's take:

http://www.ussmarine...-up-to-do-more/

Solid, as usual.


This makes no sense. It's a bad move, but good because they can sign a old FA pitcher? Does he know that they're trying to do that? Why not just sign the old FA pitcher and then trade Pineda for a package that approaches his value?

Seems like he doesn't like the deal and is straining to come up with a silver lining to support the idea that Jack Z isn't a total moron.

#91 Toe Nash

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

He's one of the games ten best prospects, even with serous questions revolving around whether or not he can stay behind the plate. His likely projection as a hitter is that of a guy with an .850+ OPS, his optimistic projections are that he'll be one of the best hitters in baseball. If the guy can even just pretend to be a catcher, his value is incredible; if he has to move to 1b or DH (which is of course likely), he still likely has a damn good chance at being a starter on a first division club for a decade.


Pineda is one of the games top ten best young pitchers, even with the same health questions as any young pitcher. His likely projection as a pitcher is that of a guy with a 3.50 ERA, his optimistic projections are that he'll be one of the best pitchers in baseball. If the guy can stay healthy, his value is incredible; if he misses some time with injuries, he still will put up a ton of value for a decade.

Except, the likelihood of Pineda missing major time with injuries is less than the likelihood Montero won't stick behind the plate, and top young starters are worth more than top young hitters even if they can catch.

#92 Tyrone Biggums


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:19 AM

I'm also expecting the Yankees to sign Fielder.

One of the reasons Fielder has not yet signed is likely due to the fact that Boras is aware of the Yankees interest. The Yankees just needed to free up the DH spot, which they did in trading Montero. The next logical step is Fielder, as the Yankees collect all-stars at almost every position.

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees intend to get under the luxury tax. Quite the contrary, the Yankees are likely to increase their spending to further undermine competitive balance. That is what the Yankees do. As teams like the Red Sox and Angels spend more, the Yankees increase their own spending, to maintain their advantage.

Moreover, the wild card will soon be a major negative in comparison to winning the division. By signing Fielder and trading for Pineda, the Yankees would lock up first place for years to come, leaving the Rays and Red Sox to fight for the wild card and roll the dice on the one game playoff.


Because, I really enjoyed that championship duck boat ride down Boylston last year...Seriously, anything can happen. Boston was the best team in baseball for four months last year then had an epic collapse. Tampa has the best pitching in the division, its not even close and its scary what will happen if they can ever find a way to keep Hellickson Price and Shields through their primes. Oh yeah then some guy named Matt Moore too who they just signed to a stupid team friendly contract. Signing Fielder would make the Yankees the on paper favorite, but anything can happen.

You always take the stud pitcher over the stud hitter, good pitching is tough to find. The only way this blows up for the Yankees is if Pineda shows he's not able to handle Yankee Stadium and Montero learns how to play catcher.

#93 rembrat


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:19 AM

You think Montero and Noesi doesnt approach Pineda's value? A dude whose comp is Miguel Cabrera and a cost controlled kid who can be a decent #3?

Its quality over quantity.


#94 Tyrone Biggums


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:25 AM

You think Montero and Noesi doesnt approach Pineda's value? A dude whose comp is Miguel Cabrera and a cost controlled kid who can be a decent #3?

Its quality over quantity.


Could approach...in Pineda you know what you have. Until Montero learns how to play catcher it doesn't matter, DH's who can hit 20-30 homers are a lot easier to find than a possible ace in the making. Giving up Campos was really moronic by Z.

#95 rembrat


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:32 AM

Are DHs really easy to find? This isnt 1999 anymore. There is Ortiz and... yea, there is Ortiz.

Anyways, I dont think Z got fleeced. He dealt young pitching, which he has A TON of, for something he doesnt have and desperately needs. Its a win-win for both sides.

#96 MakMan44


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:41 AM

Are DHs really easy to find? This isnt 1999 anymore. There is Ortiz and... yea, there is Ortiz.

Anyways, I dont think Z got fleeced. He dealt young pitching, which he has A TON of, for something he doesnt have and desperately needs. Its a win-win for both sides.


Except that Jocketty had to give up Alonso, Grandal and Boxberger for possible ace in Latos. If you believe FIP Pineda pitched just as well as Latos last year and the Padres got a better package of players than Z got, especially considering he gave up a top ten prospect along with Pineda. Like I said up thread, the Yankees got a really good deal when you compare it to all the other deals for young pitchers this offseason, it is easily the best of the bunch, for the Yankees at least.

#97 nycdoc999

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:44 AM

Except that Jocketty had to give up Alonso, Grandal and Boxberger for possible ace in Latos. If you believe FIP Pineda pitched just as well as Latos last year and the Padres got a better package of players than Z got, especially considering he gave up a top ten prospect along with Pineda. Like I said up thread, the Yankees got a really good deal when you compare it to all the other deals for young pitchers this offseason, it is easily the best of the bunch, for the Yankees at least.


Compared with Alonso, Grandal and Boxberger, Montero is the surest bet to be the biggest impact bat. Noesi looks to be a back-end starter for Seattle, so the secondary part of the trade is a bit puzzling from an Ms standpoint (not sure why they didn't insist on Nova and make the Yankees give in), but I don't think you can argue that Seattle needed as close to a "sure thing" bat as they could find, and they got it in the deal. Montero can step in now and be a middle of the order bat for them for the forseeable future.

Edited by nycdoc999, 14 January 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#98 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:52 AM

wouldn't be shocked to see the Yankees make a move for Prince Fielder


I thought Fielder was adamant about not DHing and therefore clubs without an open slot at 1B were out of the mix.

#99 MakMan44


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:55 AM

Compared with Alonso, Grandal and Boxberger, Montero is the surest bet to be the biggest impact bat. Noesi looks to be a back-end starter for Seattle, so the secondary part of the trade is a bit puzzling from an Ms standpoint (not sure why they didn't insist on Nova and make the Yankees give in), but I don't think you can argue that Seattle needed as close to a "sure thing" bat as they could find, and they got it in the deal. Montero can step in now and be a middle of the order bat for them for the forseeable future.


That is true but the fact that the Yankees were also able to get Campos (who has tremendous upside) really swings the deal in their favor. If was just a straight up swap for Pineda and Montero, that would be a great deal for both clubs IMO

#100 PedroKsBambino


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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:58 AM

I would, I think even Carlos Pena is pushing their budget past where they wanted to go. Olney just reported that even Kuroda was past where they wanted to go, but there must be at least one more move on the way.


You should know this by now: the Yankees do not in any meaningful way have a budget.

Great trade for Yankees; Jack Z is trying to save his job, seems to me, and thus needs a bat and is willing to flip an A ball arm for a MLB ready back-of-the-rotation starter. Yanks get more certain value here, and also a lottery ticket. M's get cost-controlled rotation filler plus someone who might be an impact bat and might be a good, cost-controlled DH.

Nicely done by Yanks.