359 replies to this topic

[MartyBarrettMVP]

Not to mention he's likely retiring:

Joe Frisaro, Marlins beat writer

Javier Vazquez, who had a remarkable second half, maintains he is retiring.

[The Boomer]

An interesting Fangraphs analysis about why careful dumpster diving could yield cost effective performers for the #5 starter:

http://www.fangraphs...as-last-winter/

Maholm, Francis and many others could be successful reclamation projects if the Sox hold open tryouts for the last starter. Andrew Miller turned out to be a 2 seasons rehabilitation endeavor. Everybody loves the Hill bullpen re-signing for the same reason. Cherington's bargain shopping for the last 5 or more roster spots (RF, reserves, bullpen and #5 starter) is understandable. I am impressed that, given their believable budget restraints, he converted organizational utlity surplus (Lowrie, Reddick and secondary prospects), into a cost controlled #4 starter (Bard) and a quality set-up man and closer (Melancon and Bailey) to already fill their most glaring roster needs before New Year considering the most significant deficits caused by this offseason's losses (Papelbon, Lackey and Dice-K - with virtually any of the prospective back end rotation pitchers serving as upgrades for the latter 2 injured and ineffective hurlers). Likewise, the probably soon to be retired and almost fully depreciated Drew, Wakefield and Varitek will be adequately replaced by Sweeney, the still undetermined OF to be acquired, pitching bargains Cherington is shopping for and Shoppach. The underachieving and injured 90 wins 2011 team just needed better depth and an attitude adjustment to get back on track. Cherington will prove how good he is more by finding something like this year's version of Vogelsong to round out his rotation than by throwing more wasted money at the team's problems.

[Plympton91]

You know, actually, the Red Sox probably could wait out the entire market, and if the music stops before they get somebody, they can jus bring Wakefield into camp as the 5th starter and see if Dubront or Tazawa can beat him out then or at some point in the first half of the season.

[rembrat]

With Quentin being traded to SD, Kenny Williams is back in rebuild mode this week. It's time to go get Floyd before the Yankees or Blue Jays do.

IMO, he is the surest and cheapest thing availabe. Oswalt is old with a cranky back and diminishing stuff who has never pitched in the AL. The same can be said for Kuroda, Francis and Maholm. Jackson will want 3+ years. Garza will cost a blue chip+.

Get it done, Ben. I will be the first in line to wash your balls.

[Drek717]

Jackson will want 3+ years.

What's the problem with giving Jackson 3 or 4 years? He's 28, has no injury issues, has shown solid or better production repeatedly in the AL including against the AL East. He and Gavin Floyd are incredibly similar across the board, but Jackson has done his work with zero consistency or stability.

Our need for a solid innings eater at the back of the rotation isn't going away after this season. As long as we have guys like John Lackey and Carl Crawford on the books I don't see how we'll be a serious bidder for Cain or the like next off-season. So if the market is as dry for Jackson as it currently appears isn't this a great chance to buy low on his prime years, answering one of our SP spots for the next several years?

Long term deals aren't inherently bad. They're only bad when you pay full freight for past production. Jackson is looking like a good buy low opportunity.

[Kid T]

What's the problem with giving Jackson 3 or 4 years? He's 28, has no injury issues, has shown solid or better production repeatedly in the AL including against the AL East. He and Gavin Floyd are incredibly similar across the board, but Jackson has done his work with zero consistency or stability.

Our need for a solid innings eater at the back of the rotation isn't going away after this season. As long as we have guys like John Lackey and Carl Crawford on the books I don't see how we'll be a serious bidder for Cain or the like next off-season. So if the market is as dry for Jackson as it currently appears isn't this a great chance to buy low on his prime years, answering one of our SP spots for the next several years?

Long term deals aren't inherently bad. They're only bad when you pay full freight for past production. Jackson is looking like a good buy low opportunity.

I think he's still a #4/5 starter looking to get paid like a #2/3. While he might eat up innings, his WHIP for the last 3 years are (2011) 1.437, (2010) 1.395, (2009) 1.262. Not the most inspiring record of performance (not that WHIP is the best determinant, but still...). I don't think he's worth anything north of $7 mil/year.

[Drek717]

I think he's still a #4/5 starter looking to get paid like a #2/3. While he might eat up innings, his WHIP for the last 3 years are (2011) 1.437, (2010) 1.395, (2009) 1.262. Not the most inspiring record of performance (not that WHIP is the best determinant, but still...). I don't think he's worth anything north of $7 mil/year.

He's also had a BABIP those three years to match.
2011 - .330
2010 - .313
2009 - .276

His FIP has been trending down every season since '07 when he was 23.
'07 - 4.90
'08 - 4.88
'09 - 4.28
'10 - 3.86
'11 - 3.55

That looks to me like a pitcher maturing in the big leagues, especially over the last three seasons. He's done this despite playing for 5 teams (being a member of six) in that time. At this point a FIP in the range of 3.8 to 4.2 seems very reasonable (Bill James projects a 4.03 according to FanGraphs) with a whole lot of room to trend up. John Lackey had posted a three year FIP of 3.54 (2007), 4.53 (2008), 3.73 (2009) before we gave him nearly $16M, just to put those FIP numbers in perspective.

That said, yes, the point to signing Jackson long term would hinge on him taking a reasonable AAV. I would consider that anything south of $8M per with some nice rewards for All-Star appearances and should he really figure it out Cy Young votes. At that point I'd gladly give him 3 or even 4 years, knowing that he is a very high floor 28 year old pitcher who still has a good amount of potential left to be tapped into.

Edited by Drek717, 01 January 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[JimBoSox9]

That looks to me like a pitcher maturing in the big leagues, especially over the last three seasons. He's done this despite playing for 5 teams (being a member of six) in that time.

You frame his development as 'impressive despite all the team changes', but I think its the reverse: 'worrisome because of all the team changes'. Cherington is clearly putting some value on high-character guys (and I'm fine with that as long as it doesn't produce a statistically inferior team), and it's hard not to have questions about Jackson's makeup looking at his career. Young productive starting pitchers simply don't move around like he has. They're too valuable. I'm not worried enough to not want him, and I'm not even convinced I don't want him for 4 years, but there's an added level of risk to a long contract for him than is visible just by looking at his very positive stats and trends.

[ScubaSteveAvery]

I think Jackson's workhorse abilities with limited ceiling are what make him more valuable to a second-division team. The limited ceiling is based on his lack of fastball command. His velocity numbers are fine, but I think there's very little deception on his hard stuff, he's inclined to be wild in the strike zone, and batters hammer his fastball. I haven't watched him very much in the last two years, so he may have improved, but my gut impression is that his stuff just isn't that good, and that returning to the AL East would be bad for him and whatever team signs him.

You are right on this one, Sprowl. I didn't want to dig around pitchfx to look at all the technical stuff (not enough time for that), but I used the two quick and dirty methods on Fangraphs. Both the BIS and Pitchf/x data agree on three out of four of his pitches. I know there are lingering classification issues with BIS and pitchf/x, but they both spit out the same numbers, giving me faith that they are both in the ballpark on the quality of his pitches. Apologies for not putting this into a neat chart, my only computer right now is an ipad, so bear with me.

Jackson's non-breaking pitches (fastball and changeup) are both bad pitches. His breaking stuff is much better, including his slider, which is a plus pitch.

If we look at the cumulative data on how many runs above or below average his pitches are, his fastball clearly stands out as laggard. Using the BIS data, since 2007 (when Pitchf/x started tracking - I wanted to keep the numbers consistent) his fastball has been an astonishing 58.7 runs below average. Pitchf/x returns a similar -51.2 number. These are both the resuts of very bad 2007 and 2008 years (the normalized numbers will confirm this). The BIS data reveals that during the same time frame, his changeup was 13.2 runs below average (pitchf/x: -18.2).

On the other hand, his slider has been spectacular (although not so much in 2011). In the 2007 to present time frame, his slider was 50.1 runs above average using BIS, and 51.0 runs above average using pitch f/x. The curve has been inconsistent, but much better overall. Using BIS, it was -2.86 runs below average, and -1.7 below average using pitchfx.

Since he had some really bad years in there for his fastball, and really great years with his slider, I looked at the normalized data to see how he fares. Using the normalized data (type of pitch per 100 pitches thrown), his fastball was slightly below average using BIS (-.64), with a strikingly similar below average rating using pitch f/x (-.65). His changeup is slightly below average using BIS (-.77) and definitely below average using pitch fx (-1.36). His slider his a plus pitch no matter which pitch data sets you use. It is worth a normalized 1.14 runs above average in BIS and 1.31 runs above average using pitchf/x. The curveball is slightly above average using BIS (.64) and slighly below average with pitch f/x (-.53).

So, what we end up with is:

Fastball: Slighly below average
Changeup: Below average
Slider: Above average plus pitch
Curvball: Unclear, but potentially above average.

And your thesis of velocity good, but wild in the strike zone makes intuitive sense here. If his fastball generates good velocity and he throws strikes with it, but it is below average, it would make sense that the cause is poor control within the strikezone. The only time it ever registered a positive reading was last year in the first half the year. BIS rated it at 5.4 runs above average (although pitchf/x continued to rate it below average). Once he switched to an easier league (NL West) he was drastically worse, so its not something he has quite figured out.

Edited by ScubaSteveAvery, 01 January 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[Kid T]

Regarding Jackson, It's reported that Boras is seeking a 5 year, $60 million contract. I can't imagine his price dropping enough for him to be palatable for the Red Sox. Someone will inevitably offer him a multi-year deal worth $9-10 mil per.

[Pesky Pole]

Al-Yank-zeera (aka Jon Heyman) reports that the Yanks will go after Edwin Jackson.

EJackson a Yankee Target?

[dbn]

Ben Cherington says Bard, Aceves, Miller, Doubront will all enter camp as starters to compete for 4-5 starter openings. - said this on NESN a little while ago... can you post this in the starter thread please?

[edit: link.]

Edited by dbn, 03 January 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[bombdiggz]

I really wouldn't expect Ben to say anything else. He has clearly been waiting for the market come to him this offseason and that quote strikes me as part of that strategy.

While letting that group fight it out wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, it would leave the team pretty short in the depth department. I would be quite surprised if the Sox didn't bring in one more proven starter with a history of throwing a ton of innings. With Bard not likely to throw 200 innings and some injury questions surrounding Beckett and Buch, another innings horse would fit the needs of this rotation perfectly.

Personally, I'd love it to be Gavin Floyd. He throws a ton of innings, isn't really expensive, and probably won't cost a ton to acquire. I'm really not enamored with paying the prospect cost for Garza and the length of the commitment that E-Jax would need is far from ideal given the commitments already made to the rotation, not to mention he probably doesn't fit into this years Sox budget.

As an aside, that Scott Boras is just amazing. What do you do when you are looking for 5/60 and no one is biting? Bring the price down? No, start telling teams that your client is worth 14-17 M/yr, as Jon Heyman does above. Brilliant...

[FanSinceBoggs]

I wouldn't go near Oswalt, not even for one year, there are too many negatives:

Never pitched in the AL---------------CHECK
Never pitched in the AL East--------CHECK
A declining fastball--------------------CHECK
A declining K ratio---------------------CHECK
Health issues/concerns-------------CHECK
Getting older &
Small Frame for a SP----------------CHECK

Signing Oswalt wouldn't be as bad as the Brad Penny FA signing from a few years ago. Still, it can go wrong in so many different ways that it'll likely end in failure.

[Savin Hillbilly]

I wouldn't go near Oswalt, not even for one year, there are too many negatives:

Never pitched in the AL---------------CHECK
Never pitched in the AL East--------CHECK
A declining fastball--------------------CHECK
A declining K ratio---------------------CHECK
Health issues/concerns-------------CHECK
Getting older &
Small Frame for a SP----------------CHECK

Signing Oswalt wouldn't be as bad as the Brad Penny FA signing from a few years ago. Still, it can go wrong in so many different ways that it'll likely end in failure.

Fair points, but by way of counterpoint, the "declining fastball" bit needs an asterisk. Oswalt had significantly lower velocity in the starts that bracketed his long injured stint last year. His last five starts of the year were right back up into his normal range of recent years, 92-93. It's not clear to me that his fastball has declined significantly when he's healthy -- which of course brings us back to "health issues/concerns."

[Derek's Friend]

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman ex cy young winner brandon webb began throwing in late december. agent jonathan maurer said arm feels "strong and loose''


Does this do anything for anyone or has that shipped sailed?

[PrometheusWakefield]

I'm always into picking up a guy like that, but not in a major league contract kinda way.

[rembrat]

I doubt Webb is even offered a major league contract at this point.

[reggiecleveland]

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman ex cy young winner brandon webb began throwing in late december. agent jonathan maurer said arm feels "strong and loose''


Does this do anything for anyone or has that shipped sailed?

just once i want an agent to say something like, "Man he is a shadow of himself, but he can almost button his shirt."

[bombdiggz]

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman ex cy young winner brandon webb began throwing in late december. agent jonathan maurer said arm feels "strong and loose'' Does this do anything for anyone or has that shipped sailed?

Ah strong and loose just how I like my...rehabbing pitchers.

Sources: #Cubs, #Orioles, #Mariners, #RedSox on Paul Maholm. #Pirates also in touch, but "highly unlikely" per @Dejan_Kovacevic.

per Rosenthal http://twitter.com/#...384049895084032

Maholm makes a sensible target for the back end of the rotation. While I hate the K rate, he typically throws a lot of innings (1100 over the last 6 years) and has a healthy groundball rate.

Edited by bombdiggz, 06 January 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Larry Gardner]

^{I would have said Maholm, and I may have missed this one, but has Kevin Slowey ended up anywhere yet?
ERA+ usually in the 90's which is a 5th starter?}

[bombdiggz]

^{I would have said Maholm, and I may have missed this one, but has Kevin Slowey ended up anywhere yet?
ERA+ usually in the 90's which is a 5th starter?}

Slowey was traded to the Rockies during the winter meetings and avoided arbitration, agreeing to a 2.7 M deal.

[Savin Hillbilly]

^{I would have said Maholm, and I may have missed this one, but has Kevin Slowey ended up anywhere yet? ERA+ usually in the 90's which is a 5th starter?}

The Rockies got him.

One thing to keep in mind about Maholm--he, too, is recovering from an injury. Based on all the buzz about him, I'm assuming that no one is too worried about it, but he has to rank as at least a mild question mark.

[Lynchie]

Of the players listed as poll options the only one I'd want is Garza. I can't see the others being able to hack it in the AL East. Get it done and wrap the 'compensation' fiasco as part of the package.

[Drek717]

I doubt Webb is even offered a major league contract at this point.

Probably not, but he'd be one hell of a lottery ticket for us to stash in Pawtucket while he gets as close to fully rehabbed as he can.

[bosockboy]

No problem with Maholm or even a couple lower cost starters.....I'd rather do this now and see what's available in July to rent for the stretch run. With such a huge free agent pitching class next winter....should be a few rentals available. Same principle for Sweeney/McDonald in RF....that should get us to July and see if we need a bat for the stretch run.

Also renting a starter allows them to move Bard to the pen for the stretch run and postseason.

[nvalvo]

Also renting a starter allows them to move Bard to the pen for the stretch run and postseason.

I was thinking this way too. With Bard on limited innings, why not start him in the first half, and then move him to then pen, replacing his starts either by trade or with Matsuzaka returning from injury?

Bailey, Melancon, and Bard is a pretty sick back end, even if we get nothing from Jenks. And if Jenks comes back healthy, even better.

[bosockboy]

Not to mention Aceves in the pen as well (which if they sign a Maholm type....will likely happen).

[The Boomer]

Not to mention Aceves in the pen as well (which if they sign a Maholm type....will likely happen).

I've been advocating Maholm. Jeff Francis is also on my list. I won't be disappointed if they sign either (but preferably both) of them. I would estimate that each would cost not more (and hopefully less) that Bedard. Both are injury risks (like Bedard was) and, if one of them loses that #5 starter competition, the other would probably be fine working out of the bullpen. They are better off if they choose such free agents (if they do at all) who won't seriously impede anyone from among Doubront, Aceves, Miller, and (maybe) Tazawa to either claim the #5 starter job or a spot in the bullpen. I actually take Cherington's statement at face value in the event that this pronouncement doesn't benefit their bargaining position in terms of cost effectively acquiring more pitchers to compete for these last pitching jobs and provide upper level organizational depth.

[SoxScout]

I liked Maholm as a sneaky target heading into the offseason, mainly because of his GB%, but investigating further he is pretty much Joe Saunders 2.0, no? If I said Saunders would be horrific in the AL East, I don't think I can say Maholm would be sneaky good. He would probably be rocked too.

1 year of Kuroda is the way to go I think, I just guess they can't fit 1/$13 into their payroll.

Edited by SoxScout, 07 January 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[rembrat]

Using the Fangraphs tool to see how they compare I get the sense that Maholm is smidgen better but not by much. Saunders has AL experience and bit more velocity on his fastball but Maholm keeps the ball in the park and gets more groundballs.

[AZBlue]

Nick Cafardo has twice made references to Paul Maholm's "shoulder surgery." I have found no other reference to Maholm having surgery since he began having issues last summer. I did find this: Yahoo team report, “LHP Paul Maholm (sore left shoulder) missed the final month, but the possibility of surgery never was raised even after two visits to Dr. James Andrews. He is expected to be ready for spring training."

[SoxinSeattle]

Maholm looks to be a Cub and Garza a Tiger?

http://www.cbssports...297882/34290907

http://www.csnchicag...7864&feedID=661

[The Boomer]

The latest news is that Garza might end up with the Tigers and that Theo signed Maholm for the Cubs. It looks more like Cherington's quote about going with what they have for the 5th starter position might be more than a negotiation posture. Jeff Francis and a few other bargain bin projects are probably all that will be left in their price range. At this point, other than building depth with a few of those low cost - OK upside competitors, Cherington's pronouncements might indicate that he means what he says. This isn't a bad thing. Doubront or Miller, in particular, at least have upside potential that is better than anything else out there in affordable price ranges. If there is an available starter who can be traded in a scenario similar to the deals that brought players the Sox can control for multiple seasons at predictably reasonable prices, like Melancon and Bailey this off season, that's probably a better option than overpaying for the dwindling free agent starters still out there.

[Pumpsie]

Once again, I fear our front office has short-changed us on pitching. Way too many "ifs, ands, and buts." Theo did this to us alnost every season, and sometimes got away with it, but whenever the team failed it was because of lack of pitching...like last year's collapse. I have a hard time believing that Ben and LL are going this route yet again. Is there another move remaining? There had better be.

[snowmanny]

Once again, I fear our front office has short-changed us on pitching. Way too many "ifs, ands, and buts." Theo did this to us alnost every season, and sometimes got away with it, but whenever the team failed it was because of lack of pitching...like last year's collapse. I have a hard time believing that Ben and LL are going this route yet again. Is there another move remaining? There had better be.

Putting both Bard and Aceves in the rotation seems really risky. It's hard for me to imagine them logging 300 innings between them, which ends up putting more pressure on the bullpen, which is now depleted of it's three best pitchers from last year.
I have a really hard time believing that that is really the plan.

[Corsi]

Once again, I fear our front office has short-changed us on pitching. Way too many "ifs, ands, and buts." Theo did this to us alnost every season, and sometimes got away with it, but whenever the team failed it was because of lack of pitching...like last year's collapse. I have a hard time believing that Ben and LL are going this route yet again. Is there another move remaining? There had better be.

I'm holding out hope for Kuroda. Heyman insists we're strongly in on him and that he's definitely playing in the states this season.

[RedOctober3829]

I'm holding out hope for Kuroda. Heyman insists we're strongly in on him and that he's definitely playing in the states this season.

In that tweet, Kuroda is still seeking $13-$14 million. His price has to come down significantly if the Red Sox could sign him.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Putting both Bard and Aceves in the rotation seems really risky. It's hard for me to imagine them logging 300 innings between them, which ends up putting more pressure on the bullpen, which is now depleted of it's three best pitchers from last year.
I have a really hard time believing that that is really the plan.

Well, remember, Dice-K is coming back--if the reports we're seeing can be trusted, he might even be back by Memorial Day. So the plan calls for one of Bard and Aceves (presumably the latter) to be in the rotation only for a couple of months, maybe 8 starts. I think that makes reliance on cheap veteran depth rather than an upper-tier FA a little easier to swallow. But you're right that it's a risky strategy,especially since Dice-K's comeback is hardly money in the bank.

Here's a question: supposing they do sign a Kuroda type, which presumably sends Aceves back to the pen. Let's further suppose that Bard's SP conversion goes swimmingly. Come the end of May, the rotation is healthy and solid. What happens on Dice-K's return? Will they put him in the bullpen? Will they move Bard back to the pen even though his conversion was a success? Will they try to move somebody?

[SumnerH]

Well, remember, Dice-K is coming back--if the reports we're seeing can be trusted, he might even be back by Memorial Day. So the plan calls for one of Bard and Aceves (presumably the latter) to be in the rotation only for a couple of months, maybe 8 starts. I think that makes reliance on cheap veteran depth rather than an upper-tier FA a little easier to swallow. But you're right that it's a risky strategy,especially since Dice-K's comeback is hardly money in the bank.

Here's a question: supposing they do sign a Kuroda type, which presumably sends Aceves back to the pen. Let's further suppose that Bard's SP conversion goes swimmingly. Come the end of May, the rotation is healthy and solid. What happens on Dice-K's return? Will they put him in the bullpen? Will they move Bard back to the pen even though his conversion was a success? Will they try to move somebody?

This is pretty unlikely, and if it happens they might skip everyone to give a day's rest and stall on a move until the inevitable injury hits. More likely, Dice-K will return in time that Miller or Tazawa only had to make a spot start or two.

Even with a Kuroda signing and Bard and Aceves, we're still not at the level of redundancy we've had in recent years where we were worrying about sending Wakefield to the 'pen alongside another long reliever--years where we got to see starts out of Paul Byrd, Scott Atchison, Alfredo Aceves, Kyle Weiland, Andrew Miller, and the Boston John Smoltz experience and scrambled to add Bedard at the deadline.

[SoxScout]

The Boston Red Sox appear to be closing in on a short-term deal with right-hander Hiroki Kuroda to add him to a rotation that already has Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard. This move, along with the trades for relievers Mark Melancon and Andrew Bailey, quickly puts the Red Sox back among the AL’s elite. Kuroda is extremely underrated for the valuable innings he can provide from the back of a rotation.

http://espn.go.com/b...ng-in-on-kuroda

Everyone's favorite, Jim Bowden

Edited by SoxScout, 10 January 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[bosockboy]

http://espn.go.com/b...ng-in-on-kuroda

Everyone's favorite, Jim Bowden

If true, I'd like that front four enough that I would let Cook/Silva/Germano/Miller scrap it out for the 5th starter spot and leave both Bard and Aceves in the pen. Having Bailey/Bard/Melancon/Aceves/Albers/Morales/LOOGY would be pretty ferocious.

[Hee-Seop's Fable]

If true, I'd like that front four enough that I would let Cook/Silva/Germano/Miller scrap it out for the 5th starter spot and leave both Bard and Aceves in the pen. Having Bailey/Bard/Melancon/Aceves/Albers/Morales/LOOGY would be pretty ferocious.

I'd still rather have Bard as the 5th, forcing Dice-K to slow down and do things more methodically, returning when he's making AAA hitters look silly and really forcing Bard back to the bullpen. We'll still want Bard as a starter in '13 when Dice-K is gone and Lackey returns (presumably), and having him make 12 starts or so helps him mature as a pitcher and be better prepared for a full season of starting in '13. Adding Aceves alone with the group they've built is a good bullpen for 1/2 the year, and with Bard it's likely to be remarkably good, or at least insulated from injuries derailing it as a strength.

[teddywingman]

I'm rooting for the Kuroda signing, and wondering if a better value could be reached with a two year signing.

Count me in the camp that thinks Bard in the rotation will not work out. He hasn't started a game in 5 years and his approach, it seems, would have to change drastically.

[czar]

If true, I'd like that front four enough that I would let Cook/Silva/Germano/Miller scrap it out for the 5th starter spot and leave both Bard and Aceves in the pen. Having Bailey/Bard/Melancon/Aceves/Albers/Morales/LOOGY would be pretty ferocious.

Agreed. Kuroda,while unlikely to best his career 3.62 xFIP in 2012+, would be more than adequate behind Lester, Beckett, Buchholz as a #4 guy.

More importantly, it would put less of a demand on the potential Bard-to-SP transition and allow for a bit more "flexibility" with regard to his starter development. It's tough to make an argument that Bard doesn't have the highest ceiling of the rest of the SP candidates and a Kuroda signing would allow the team to be a bit more "free-flowing" with regard to the conversion-- this could, in turn, translate to a better chance of him making it to the tier of above-average AL starters going forward.

Edited by czar, 10 January 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Savin Hillbilly]

I'm inclined to think that Aceves is better suited (and more accustomed) to being shuttled back and forth between pen and rotation, and so if signing Kuroda makes it unlikely that the 5th starter will remain in the rotation all year, I'd rather keep Bard in the pen and let Aceves be the guy who's holding a spot for Dice-K.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

http://espn.go.com/b...ng-in-on-kuroda

Everyone's favorite, Jim Bowden

Speier weighs in. http://www.weei.com/...ing-kuroda-deal

According to a major league source, a report from ESPN's Jim Bowden suggesting that the Red Sox are "closing in on a short-term deal" with free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda is inaccurate, with another source suggesting that such a claim was "baseless."

Edited by BannedbyNYYFans.com, 10 January 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I'd still rather have Bard as the 5th, forcing Dice-K to slow down and do things more methodically, returning when he's making AAA hitters look silly and really forcing Bard back to the bullpen.

One thing to keep in mind is that they may not have the luxury of waiting for Dice-K to return "when he's making AAA hitters look silly". Once he makes his first rehab start, he's got a maximum of 30 days to get his stuff in order, and at the end of those 30 days he either has to be brought up to the big club or returned to the DL.

Essentially, it will all come down to when they determine he's ready for game action as far as picking his MLB return date, as the quality of his minor league performances probably won't play a significant role.

[Corsi]

It's not accurate that Boston is closing in on a Kuroda deal at this point.

https://twitter.com/...835684542464000

Olney

Edited by Corsi, 10 January 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Corsi]

A high-ranking Red Sox official just relayed word that one should put “not much” credence into a report from ESPN that the Red Sox “appear to be closing in on a short-term deal” with free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda. There’s every reason to believe, however, that the Red Sox remain interested in Kuroda, who along with Roy Oswalt is the best free agent starter still on the board.

http://www.bostonher..._medium=twitter