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The 2012 NFL Draft


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#201 ragnarok725

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:40 PM

This comes up every year, but it's definitely worth noting. Guys like Kiper and McShay watch a lot of football and know a lot about the players, but ultimately if they were as good at their job as they lead you to believe on air, they'd have a job doing this in the NFL.

Not that I disagree with the thrust of your post, but is the bolded really true? Why would they prefer a NFL scouting job to being the face of the draft for ESPN? I bet they get paid better, and get national fame and attention to boot. They have more job security than any scout in the business. Their real talent is their ability to be convincing talking heads, a skill which doesn't change while scouting departments will have up and down years, The difference between the best and worst draft prognosticators is only on the margins - so it's not obvious to anyone that they're not much better or worse than anyone else out there.

If they become scouts, they get judged by their recommendations and their results, like everyone else. Why would they want that? I bet scouts want to be Kiper/McShay, not the other way around.

#202 soxfan121


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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:19 PM

Scouts don't "pick" players; GMs/Director of Player Personnel do. I assumed that was the "job" he was referring to.

#203 ElcaballitoMVP

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:58 PM

Not that I disagree with the thrust of your post, but is the bolded really true? Why would they prefer a NFL scouting job to being the face of the draft for ESPN? I bet they get paid better, and get national fame and attention to boot. They have more job security than any scout in the business. Their real talent is their ability to be convincing talking heads, a skill which doesn't change while scouting departments will have up and down years, The difference between the best and worst draft prognosticators is only on the margins - so it's not obvious to anyone that they're not much better or worse than anyone else out there.

If they become scouts, they get judged by their recommendations and their results, like everyone else. Why would they want that? I bet scouts want to be Kiper/McShay, not the other way around.


You're right. I'm sure these guys don't want to be "scouts" and that any of the scouts out there would rather have a position like Kiper/McShay, but I was more referring to them not being able to get a job where they'd be calling the shots on draft day. I'm sure they could get a job scouting the Pac-12 for the Rams and they'd be crazy to give up what they have for that, but if they wanted to get a job where they'd be running a draft, they'd get laughed out of the building. There are hundreds of scouts/front office personnel that would be more qualified than either of those two. And that's what I was getting at. They may have a great job and get paid well for it, I was just trying to prove a point that while these guys go on tv talking like they know everything, they aren't as qualified as they want you to believe. I just feel like people see Kiper and McShay on ESPN and take their opinions as fact without doing a little research on their own. If they did, they'd know that the Pats taking Vinny Curry with their first pick isn't very likely (no matter how badly Kiper wants to force a rush LB on us).

#204 ragnarok725

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

You're right. I'm sure these guys don't want to be "scouts" and that any of the scouts out there would rather have a position like Kiper/McShay, but I was more referring to them not being able to get a job where they'd be calling the shots on draft day. I'm sure they could get a job scouting the Pac-12 for the Rams and they'd be crazy to give up what they have for that, but if they wanted to get a job where they'd be running a draft, they'd get laughed out of the building. There are hundreds of scouts/front office personnel that would be more qualified than either of those two. And that's what I was getting at. They may have a great job and get paid well for it, I was just trying to prove a point that while these guys go on tv talking like they know everything, they aren't as qualified as they want you to believe. I just feel like people see Kiper and McShay on ESPN and take their opinions as fact without doing a little research on their own. If they did, they'd know that the Pats taking Vinny Curry with their first pick isn't very likely (no matter how badly Kiper wants to force a rush LB on us).

Fair enough, but I also don't feel like Kiper and McShay really bill themselves as personnel pickers - they bill themselves as scouts. They're supposed to know the players. Their role is to lobby for the guys they think will be the best pros. That's what a scout does. The focus on the mock draft as a format forces them to do a minimal amount of homework team needs, but they undersell that a ton. Most of what happens on draft day is teams picking the right fit - the guy they think will fit the best in all senses of the word. That's why Gosslein will always have a more accurate mock - he relies on information from the teams about who they like, not forming his own opinion necessarily on who teams SHOULD like. McShay and Kiper are supposed to have their own opinions about the players, which by definition undersells the fit perspective of drafting.

#205 ElcaballitoMVP

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:27 PM

Fair enough, but I also don't feel like Kiper and McShay really bill themselves as personnel pickers - they bill themselves as scouts. They're supposed to know the players. Their role is to lobby for the guys they think will be the best pros. That's what a scout does. The focus on the mock draft as a format forces them to do a minimal amount of homework team needs, but they undersell that a ton. Most of what happens on draft day is teams picking the right fit - the guy they think will fit the best in all senses of the word. That's why Gosslein will always have a more accurate mock - he relies on information from the teams about who they like, not forming his own opinion necessarily on who teams SHOULD like. McShay and Kiper are supposed to have their own opinions about the players, which by definition undersells the fit perspective of drafting.


Sure, they're supposed to have their own opinions on players, I just don't think it makes much sense to put out mock draft after mock draft without taking team needs into account. If a player doesn't fit what a team does, why even bother having that team take the player? Doing a mock draft is going to be difficult, but I don't see why they wouldn't put emphasis on this. They might look a little better in people's eyes if they did this. Guys like Mayock are valued in this area because they're willing to put in a little more work. All I was trying to say is that if Kiper thinks we should take Vinny Curry with our first pick, people shouldn't freak out if we pass on him. He's not a great fit at OLB for us, and Kiper is forcing him on us because he feels like we need an OLB and for some reason the only way he thinks we can get one is by using our first pick. If he sat back and thought about how the Pats go about drafting for more than a second, I doubt he'd pick a guy like Curry for us that early. When is the last time we took an OLB in the 1st round? Nevermind an OLB that doesn't fit the typical mold of what they look for in an OLB. Could the Pats take Curry there and make me look stupid? Yeah, and it'll probably happen now. But based on what we know about the Pats, that pick just doesn't make much sense to me. Does Kiper really think BB will draft a one-dimensional rush OLB with our first pick? I just don't see it.

#206 pappymojo

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:15 PM

You're right. I'm sure these guys don't want to be "scouts" and that any of the scouts out there would rather have a position like Kiper/McShay, but I was more referring to them not being able to get a job where they'd be calling the shots on draft day. I'm sure they could get a job scouting the Pac-12 for the Rams and they'd be crazy to give up what they have for that, but if they wanted to get a job where they'd be running a draft, they'd get laughed out of the building.


How many scouts get to call the shots? I mean, Belichick doesn't even let the scouts into the room when the draft is going on.

#207 ElcaballitoMVP

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:21 PM

How many scouts get to call the shots? I mean, Belichick doesn't even let the scouts into the room when the draft is going on.


I was referring to getting a front office job like GM or director of player personnel/scouting. Obviously, a scout isn't going to be calling the shots in a room with BB.

#208 Papelbon's Poutine


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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:05 PM

We're still two months from the draft. If Kiper still has someone like Curry (i.e. someone who clearly doesn't fit our system) going to the Pats in, say, mid April - after workouts and the combine - then sure, jump all over him. Until then let him write whatever he wants.

(null)

#209 shoosh77

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:26 PM

http://www.cbssports...de-near-the-top

#210 Super Nomario


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

http://www.cbssports...de-near-the-top


From CBS' run-down on Mercilus:

Run defense: Lacks an obvious power element to his game and struggles to shed blocks on run plays. Doesn?t consistently set the edge and will over run his responsibilities. Still developing his recognition skills and instincts. Struggles to consistently locate the ball and will get caught out of position at times.

Doesn't sound like a BB player, though one has to take these sorts of things with a grain of salt.

Sanu, on the other hand:

Eats up the cushion, showing better agility and precision as a route-runner than most receivers with his bulk.
...
After the catch: Exciting blend of size, strength and speed once the ball is in his hands. Strong receiver capable of ripping free of arm tackles and shucking off defenders with a stiff-arm.
...
Blocking: Takes his role as a blocker seriously.

His first two seasons he also got some carries, so that gives the Pats another potential RB option in the hurry-up.

I think if Kendall Wright is still hanging around in the 20s (as in this mock draft) the Pats would move up a few spots to nab him. He just seems like an ideal fit, with his only real drawback his size (something the Pats have shown they will overlook at the WR position).

#211 ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:29 PM

I am becoming more and more infatuated with the idea of a bigger WR being added to the offense, mostly because of the mismatches the Hernandez already creates. They will put a lot of pressure on defenses to match up with the size of Gronk, Hernandez and big WR x. By default one of those players will either be matched up against a bigger defender that is too slow or a smaller WR that they can dominate size wise. There are several 1st/2nd/3rd round WRs that meet are good sized:

Michale Floyd 6'3/224
Sanu 6'2 215
Dwight Jones 6'4 225
Marvin McNutt 6'4 215
Brian Quick 6'5 220

#212 Mr. Wednesday

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:24 PM

As both an ND fan and a Pats fan, I'd love to see the Pats get Floyd. However, I think the only way he'll be available that late is if he turns in a slow 40 time at the combine.

#213 Phragle


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

I am becoming more and more infatuated with the idea of a bigger WR being added to the offense, mostly because of the mismatches the Hernandez already creates. They will put a lot of pressure on defenses to match up with the size of Gronk, Hernandez and big WR x. By default one of those players will either be matched up against a bigger defender that is too slow or a smaller WR that they can dominate size wise. There are several 1st/2nd/3rd round WRs that meet are good sized:

Michale Floyd 6'3/224
Sanu 6'2 215
Dwight Jones 6'4 225
Marvin McNutt 6'4 215
Brian Quick 6'5 220


One guy I really like is Greg Childs. He was the best receiver on Arkansas as a sophomore and as a junior until he injured his knee. He's 6'3" 215, with big hands and long arms. He should run in the 4.5s. This season he hasn't played like he did before the injury, but I think he can get back to that level.

Edit: He should have been a second round guy but could easily be picked up in the 5th, 7th, or possibly as a UFA.

Edited by phragle, 21 February 2012 - 05:21 PM.


#214 SMU_Sox


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:38 PM

I like your thinking, Phragle. BB has shown he looks for guys who slip due to maintainable injuries. Phragle, how is he at getting open?

#215 SMU_Sox


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:48 PM

http://www.commercia...e-play/?print=1


Childs led the Razorbacks in nearly every receiving category as a sophomore in 2009, finishing with 48 catches for 894 yards and seven touchdowns. He was on track for even bigger things last season as a junior, leading the Razorbacks with 46 catches for 659 yards when he injured his knee against Vanderbilt in the eighth game of the season.

After an offseason of rehabilitation, Childs was clearly not at full speed during Arkansas' first preseason workout in August -- limping noticeably and dropping several balls.

He finished the regular season with 16 catches for 192 yards, both career lows, and was seventh on Arkansas in catches.



He was mentioned as a WR who benefited from Mallet and wouldn't be as good with him gone. However with him injured last year he couldn't prove anything one way or the other. He had a good attitude about his struggles and that has to count for something.


#216 Phragle


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:52 PM

I like your thinking, Phragle. BB has shown he looks for guys who slip due to maintainable injuries. Phragle, how is he at getting open?


He was unspectacular this season. He lacked the explosion he had in the 2010 season. I think with more time and rehab he could get back to those 2010 levels. My favorite part about him, and the other Arkansas guys Wright and Adams, is that they run a very complex offensive system under Petrino. I'm not positive, but I think its similar to what the Colts ran with Manning.

He is a mismatch fr opposing DBs and very hard to cover. He's too big, long, and fast. He is also dominating blocker. That could come in handy with McDaniels love for the screen.

#217 SoxScout


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:53 AM

Todd McShay

Studying safeties last 48 hours. After Mark Barron / Harrison Smith, there are too many height-weight-speed pageant winners that can't tackle



#218 Shelterdog


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

He was unspectacular this season. He lacked the explosion he had in the 2010 season. I think with more time and rehab he could get back to those 2010 levels. My favorite part about him, and the other Arkansas guys Wright and Adams, is that they run a very complex offensive system under Petrino. I'm not positive, but I think its similar to what the Colts ran with Manning.

He is a mismatch fr opposing DBs and very hard to cover. He's too big, long, and fast. He is also dominating blocker. That could come in handy with McDaniels love for the screen.


It's better than that-when mallett was drafted it came out that Petrino is largely running a system that's pretty close to what the Pats run, including using a lot of the same verbiage. (Petrino was using the system he'd gotten from Coughlin in Jacksonville, which was a modified version of what the Giants had used when Coughlin/Weiss/BB were there).

#219 ElcaballitoMVP

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:57 PM

From CBS' run-down on Mercilus:

Doesn't sound like a BB player, though one has to take these sorts of things with a grain of salt.


I agree, he doesn't sound like a BB player to me either. People know we don't have a great pass rush, so they look at a guy who lead the NCAA in sacks and assume we'll be interested. What's being ignored is Mercilus doesn't have great size to play 3-4 DE and he doesn't have any experience playing 3-4 OLB. I've read scouting reports that say he doesn't play well vs. the rush and struggles to set the edge (two things that BB typically looks for in his OLB). Mercilus would provide us an athletic pass rusher, but I just don't think he's a great fit unless we commit to the 4-3 defense full time and just let him go get the QB as a DE. I also worry about him being a 1 year wonder, as he wasn't a top recruit out of high school and then didn't do much until this season.

From that mock draft, I'd rather them take one of the guys who were taken after Mercilus (Konz C, Jenkins CB).


The more I think about it, the more I'm buying into signing Mike Wallace and sending Pitt our 1st rounder. We could add a defensive player at #27 and Wallace with #31 and you're looking pretty damn good after day 1 of the draft. We'd still have #48 and #63 in round two to address other needs. I'd rather trade the first round pick for Wallace instead of rolling it over again for a 2013 1st rounder.

#220 SpacemanzGerbil

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

I have heard the one year wonder thing about Mercilus way too much over the past month or two not to ask - how the loving fuck is a junior a one year wonder? Seniors who suddenly produce their final season, despite getting starts and playing time? Yeah, one year wonders. Juniors though?

Anybody know where that label is coming from, and more specifically, why Mercilus is the only junior getting labeled as such this winter (or possibly ever)?

#221 SouthernBoSox


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:51 PM

It's better than that-when mallett was drafted it came out that Petrino is largely running a system that's pretty close to what the Pats run, including using a lot of the same verbiage. (Petrino was using the system he'd gotten from Coughlin in Jacksonville, which was a modified version of what the Giants had used when Coughlin/Weiss/BB were there).

As far as explosive difference making ability goes, Joe Adams is the one you want of those three. Greg Childs was the most productive SEC WR in conference play in the 2010-2011 season. He was incredibly physical with insane leaping ability. He has never been a really speedy guy, and he hasn't been the same since the knee injury. J. Wright is a route running professor with legit sub 4.4 speed, just an absolute pro. Joe Adams is a video game that doesn't make sense. Everyone says he is a raw route runner, but his double move is insane.
Joe Adams is a can't miss. J Wright will absolutely be a productive pro, we just don't know at what level. Greg Childs is a complete wild card.

#222 Super Nomario


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:54 PM

He was unspectacular this season. He lacked the explosion he had in the 2010 season. I think with more time and rehab he could get back to those 2010 levels. My favorite part about him, and the other Arkansas guys Wright and Adams, is that they run a very complex offensive system under Petrino. I'm not positive, but I think its similar to what the Colts ran with Manning.

He is a mismatch fr opposing DBs and very hard to cover. He's too big, long, and fast. He is also dominating blocker. That could come in handy with McDaniels love for the screen.

Mike Reiss likes Adams to the Pats, but he strikes me as another "great skills / underachiever" type, like Johnson / Jackson / Price / (Mike Wallace). His 54 catches / 652 yards / 3 TDs this season certainly don't jump out at me. Am I missing something with him?

#223 soxfan121


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

Don Banks latest mock draft.

#27: Fletcher Cox (DT) - Mississippi State - Jr. - 6-4 - 295 (From New Orleans) The Patriots desperately need more pass rush, so Illinois DE-OLB Whitney Mercilus could very well intrigue them enough to be the pick. But Cox is the safer choice as a versatile, three-down lineman who would likely represent great value at No. 27.

31. Dont'a Hightower (LB) - Alabama - Jr. - 6-4 - 269 With the Patriots taking Mississippi State defensive tackle Fletcher Cox at No. 27, they can address another front-seven need with Hightower, a Nick Saban-coached prospect who has the versatility to play inside or outside linebacker. And we all know how Bill Belichick feels about versatility


Makes sense - a potential 5-technique DT/DE and an OLB/ILB, both from premier conferences and, of course, the Saban connection.
.

#224 SouthernBoSox


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:52 PM

Mike Reiss likes Adams to the Pats, but he strikes me as another "great skills / underachiever" type, like Johnson / Jackson / Price / (Mike Wallace). His 54 catches / 652 yards / 3 TDs this season certainly don't jump out at me. Am I missing something with him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IuCnz2jAU

He is second all time in Arkansas receptions barely behind J Wright. He was an extremely productive receiver. Certainly not an underachiever. He's also the most naturally gifted runner after the catch I have ever witnessed.

Edited by SouthernBoSox, 22 February 2012 - 03:03 PM.


#225 ElcaballitoMVP

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:05 PM

I have heard the one year wonder thing about Mercilus way too much over the past month or two not to ask - how the loving fuck is a junior a one year wonder? Seniors who suddenly produce their final season, despite getting starts and playing time? Yeah, one year wonders. Juniors though?

Anybody know where that label is coming from, and more specifically, why Mercilus is the only junior getting labeled as such this winter (or possibly ever)?


The concern is that he's only got 1 year of film to go by. At least with some seniors who suddenly produce, there is usually some more game film on him from Soph/Junior seasons. With Mercilus, he played sparingly in 11 games his sophomore year (2 starts, 16 tackles, 1 sack) and even less his freshman year. He also wasn't a very highly rated prospect coming out of high school (36th ranked DE in the class by ESPN), which worries me. Is he a guy who had one monster season and is going to come back down to earth at the next level or is he a guy who is just now realizing his potential and could have big upside? I don't know the answer, but without a lot of info. on him, it just makes it harder for people to evaluate him.

#226 Super Nomario


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

He is second all time in Arkansas receptions barely behind J Wright. He was an extremely productive receiver. Certainly not an underachiever. He's also the most naturally gifted runner after the catch I have ever witnessed.

He caught a lot of balls, but not for that many yards; his 12.2 YPC is surprisingly low for someone with his speed. He was 8th in the SEC in receiving yards, which is good but doesn't scream "can't miss" to me. His numbers also took something of a step back from the year before. Do you think that's due to decline in QB play, the scheme not emphasizing his strengths, Arkansas spreading the ball around a lot, his special teams duties taking away from his offense, nagging injuries, or something else?

Edited by Super Nomario, 22 February 2012 - 04:14 PM.


#227 SouthernBoSox


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:22 PM

Its a good question. I think the first response would be that yes Arkansas spreads it around a lot. Secondly, Tyler Wilson was just terrible at going through his progressions. He would lock onto someone (That usually being Wright) and force it.

He played mainly slot at Arkansas and handled some screens. I think watching his work in the senior bowl really shows his ability on the outside, where he can cut back catch the ball and make people miss. He handled a few pitches out of the backfield this year and was increible at it.



#228 sachmoney


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

The concern is that he's only got 1 year of film to go by. At least with some seniors who suddenly produce, there is usually some more game film on him from Soph/Junior seasons. With Mercilus, he played sparingly in 11 games his sophomore year (2 starts, 16 tackles, 1 sack) and even less his freshman year. He also wasn't a very highly rated prospect coming out of high school (36th ranked DE in the class by ESPN), which worries me. Is he a guy who had one monster season and is going to come back down to earth at the next level or is he a guy who is just now realizing his potential and could have big upside? I don't know the answer, but without a lot of info. on him, it just makes it harder for people to evaluate him.

Keep in mind that a lot of players need a lot of coaching to be ready to play on the college level. Unless they are supremely talented or physically advanced, they're probably not going to play much as a freshman. It's not every day that you're going to have a player like Sammy Watkins (WR on Clemson) contributing as a freshman. This is particularly the case for guys who are coming in at a position like OL/DL/LB. You also have to worry about teaching technique to a lot of these players too (the other reason to redshirt/not play right away). Lastly, some coaches value experience over perhaps a better, but less experienced player. Plus, it's hard to contribute if you're not playing all the time. Mercilus was one of the only reasons Illinois even became bowl eligible (AJ Jenkins was the other).

As far as one year wonder types, I'm not that concerned about Mercilus. As far as fit, that might be a more pressing issue. If they have those concerns with Mercilus, there should be other players available at that pick that can help the Patriots. We'll see how these guys perform at the combine.

#229 Phragle


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:41 AM

Combine starts today.


Childs video from 2010. He looks like a 1st round talent to me in this.



#230 Eck'sSneakyCheese


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

The more I think about it the more I see us picking Konz at 27 and trading away pick 31 for more picks. I'd love to get Markelle Martin out of Oklahoma State in the second round, he's a great cover safety. I like the idea of Joe Adams too. He would shore up the return game and would be a sneaky option at WR. Later round corners, I like Trumaine Johnson out of Montana, Jamell Fleming out of Oklahoma, and Micah Pellerin out of Hampton. In looking at the numbers those three had decent pass break up stats, and if I remember correctly the Pats usually factor that above a lot of other things. So, if we get Konz, Martin, Adams and one of those corners I would consider this a pretty succesful draft IMO.

#231 Phragle


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

15) One player who I still like that no one is talking about is Arkansas WR Greg Childs. Arkansas has two WRs who are going to get drafted in the first couple rounds. It’s easy to forget that before he was injured his junior year Greg Childs was the best WR on that team and was in the discussion for a first round pick before his patella tendon injury.
At 6’3″ 220 pounds Childs is a big target. If he can run a decent time this weekend and checks out medically he could really be a sleeper for teams looking for a big WR.


http://www.nepatriot...-draft-2.html/3


Well I wouldn't say no one is talking about him.

#232 Franklin Fanatic

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:32 PM

Wow, Childs was very impressive in all phases in that video. He even loves to block. Sign me up.

#233 SoxScout


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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:28 AM

And the price for RG3 just shot up even higher..... 6-2 3/8, 223.

#234 tims4wins


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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:38 AM

The more I think about it the more I see us picking Konz at 27 and trading away pick 31 for more picks. I'd love to get Markelle Martin out of Oklahoma State in the second round, he's a great cover safety. I like the idea of Joe Adams too. He would shore up the return game and would be a sneaky option at WR. Later round corners, I like Trumaine Johnson out of Montana, Jamell Fleming out of Oklahoma, and Micah Pellerin out of Hampton. In looking at the numbers those three had decent pass break up stats, and if I remember correctly the Pats usually factor that above a lot of other things. So, if we get Konz, Martin, Adams and one of those corners I would consider this a pretty succesful draft IMO.


I'm pretty much in alignment with this. Use 27 on Konz, trade 31 for a 2nd rounder and a first next year, then use the 3 second rounders on a DB, WR, and DL.

#235 bakahump

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

Why not sign Wallace with the 31st instead of a trade (assuming that you can work the money so its not crippling).

With the 31st.......Wallace? Or a Future #1 and #2 this year?

You still get your WR (with a much more predictable return....albeit for a much more substantial outlay)and still have 2 picks in the 2nd for a DB and DL.

#236 soxfan121


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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:29 AM

And the price for RG3 just shot up even higher..... 6-2 3/8, 223.


Why? Was he expected to measure in at or below Brees' height?

#237 tims4wins


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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:31 AM

Why not sign Wallace with the 31st instead of a trade (assuming that you can work the money so its not crippling).

With the 31st.......Wallace? Or a Future #1 and #2 this year?

You still get your WR (with a much more predictable return....albeit for a much more substantial outlay)and still have 2 picks in the 2nd for a DB and DL.


$$. I'd rather they draft a developmental WR, and sign a Brandon Lloyd or Reggie Wayne.

#238 SoxScout


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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:47 AM

Why? Was he expected to measure in at or below Brees' height?


There were people who thought he could be 5'11 200

#239 ethangl

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:54 AM

Why? Was he expected to measure in at or below Brees' height?


No, he's black so people thought he'd be around Vick's height.

Edited by ethangl, 24 February 2012 - 10:54 AM.


#240 PaulinMyrBch


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:35 AM

Can I dream about a TE combo of Gronk, Hernandez, and Dwayne Allen? An additional inline TE that can run routes would be brutal...

#241 RedOctober3829


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:38 AM

Stephen Hill from Georgia Tech is a very interesting option in the 2nd round. He just ran a 4.30 40 and his 2nd 40 was 4.31. 29 YPC last year. 6'4" 215 lbs. Can't say that the system hurts GT WRs either(hello Demariyus Thomas ). His position coach is former Patriot WR Shawn Jefferson.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 26 February 2012 - 11:40 AM.


#242 Phragle


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:29 AM

Stephen Hill from Georgia Tech is a very interesting option in the 2nd round. He just ran a 4.30 40 and his 2nd 40 was 4.31. 29 YPC last year. 6'4" 215 lbs. Can't say that the system hurts GT WRs either(hello Demariyus Thomas and some guy named Megatron). His position coach is former Patriot WR Shawn Jefferson.


I don't think they ran the triple option with Thomas or Megatron.

#243 RedOctober3829


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

I don't think they ran the triple option with Thomas or Megatron.


Thomas was there for Paul Johnson's first year. I was mistaken with Megatron though.

#244 Phragle


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

Thomas was there for Paul Johnson's first year. I was mistaken with Megatron though.


Yup 2008, you're right.

#245 jsinger121


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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:04 AM

Harrison Smith of Notre Dame is schedule to meet with the Patriots.





Aaron Wilson @RavensInsider

Harrison smith said he's meeting with the patriots this week



#246 tims4wins


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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:16 AM

Another ND safety on the roster?

Posted Image

#247 jsinger121


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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

At least Harrison Smith is actually good. Can't say the same about Sergio Brown.

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:03 PM

I don't think they ran the triple option with Thomas or Megatron.


They did with Thomas, it was cited as part of the reason it took him a while to adjust to the NFL despite having obvious talent. GTech receivers don't really run routes as such, as just run straight forward so they can receive the ball if the defense sells out to stop the run and leaves 'em completely uncovered.

#249 tims4wins


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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:29 PM

Rams will trade the #2 pick

Let the bidding begin!

#250 ragnarok725

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

I'm starting to get on the Harrison Smith bandwagon in the late first round. I think the Pats tend to "reach" for guys to make sure they get those they're interested in, and with his early-2nd grade I think a late first round pick would be in line with how they operate. We already know he's headed to Foxboro for an interview and apparently he looked pretty good at the combine:

Alabama's Mark Barron is clearly the top safety on the board, but he did not work out because of double-hernia surgery -- which is not expected to be a long-term concern -- and Barron's absence allowed No. 2 S Harrison Smith (Notre Dame) to shine.

Smith didn't have an elite workout, but he delivered exactly what you would expect from the best safety in attendance. He checked in at 6-1⅞ and an absolutely shredded 213 pounds and has long arms (32½). He's fluid for his size, flips his hips quickly, and gets in and out of his pedal naturally. Smith attacked the ball nicely, and the 4.57 he ran in the 40 is very good for a safety his size. He's a top-50 player, for sure, and there's an outside chance he could come off the board late in the first round.


"absolutely shredded" sounds about right:

Posted Image

Safety is the biggest need on the entire team, and if they don't address it with a FA pick-up or two, I'm going to be hoping and praying they can get a guy who can contribute starting reps in the draft. I'm not in love with McCourty making the full-time switch to safety, and even if he does I'd rather he take on more of a cover role in the nickel, meaning they'd want another safety-type on the field. Smith seems like a good fit.

Video of ND vs. Stanford (w/ Luck and their TEs) highlighting Smith's play:

Edited by ragnarok725, 29 February 2012 - 12:04 PM.