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The 2012 NFL Draft


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#101 phragle


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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:38 PM

There are players available I'd rather have over branch, but Brockers is awesome.



#102 ethangl

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:44 PM

I have the feeling Brockers is this year's Tyson Jackson -- he might not rise as dramatically as Jackson but I doubt he'll be around for anybody picking in the last half of the first round.

#103 phragle


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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

I have the feeling Brockers is this year's Tyson Jackson -- he might not rise as dramatically as Jackson but I doubt he'll be around for anybody picking in the last half of the first round.


I don't know. Jackson spent five years at LSU, Brockers spent three, but only one season as a starter. The were both redshirted. I think Brockers rawness and inexperience keeps him out of the top half. I think we have a good shot at 27.

Edited by phragle, 18 January 2012 - 05:03 PM.


#104 ethangl

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:28 PM

I think that'll work in his favor -- you can compare him directly to Jackson and say the guy who just turned 21 produced almost as much as Jackson did as a RS Senior. And at 6'6" he looks like he has the frame to carry a lot more good weight -- he'll have spent two years in an NFL weight room by the time he is the age Jackson was when he was drafted.

#105 phragle


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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:58 PM

I think that'll work in his favor -- you can compare him directly to Jackson and say the guy who just turned 21 produced almost as much as Jackson did as a RS Senior. And at 6'6" he looks like he has the frame to carry a lot more good weight -- he'll have spent two years in an NFL weight room by the time he is the age Jackson was when he was drafted.


Well that says a lot about his potential, but he isn't a starter in the NFL right now. In fact it would take him a while to win the job away from Deadrick if we drafted him and went back to the 3-4.

All the experts thought he'd stay in school having such little experience. it was a big surprise when he declared.

#106 lithos2003

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:04 PM

There are players available I'd rather have over branch, but Brockers is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQp5lx-hdCM


I gotta say, the beginning part of that video was underwhelming.. I saw a guy who couldn't shed his block and tackle a RB for the life of him. Pushed his guy back a bit but quality of competition and all that in college (ie I have no idea how good Georgia's O-line is) I didn't see anything particularly eye-opening. But right around the 2:40 mark and all the way to the end? Wow.

#107 sachmoney


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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:30 PM

Watching his highlights, I can't say I'm particularly impressed. On the other hand, a guy like Jerel Worthy has always impressed me. He has been one of the best interior defensive linemen in the Big Ten for a couple years now and really took it to a new level this season. I'd say he was the heart and soul of that Michigan State defense. The Big Ten has some of the best offensive lines in the country and Worthy was pretty successful against them. That's the guy I'd use my pick on if I want a 3T/5T, depending on whether the Pats are going to move to a 3-4 or not. He's a tough kid, and that would be one of the priorities of the offseason: to toughen up this defense.

The other Big Ten player I really like is Whitney Mercilus, but it appears that he might go much higher (Devon Still also seems like he'd be off the board). Mercilus is a tireless pass rusher, which is obviously something we've talked about as a need all season. While I watched a fair amount of Clemson games (mostly because of WR Sammy Watkins), I'm not that familiar with Andre Branch. He's a player that has steadily improved through out his career though.

I think the Patriots have to be aggressive If someone like Kirkpatrick is still on the board (even a few picks ahead). The Pats really haven't had a consistently good corner since Asante. That's probably one of my top positions of need right there. I think marijuana is much less of an issue than say someone like Vontaze Burfict who is an athletic freak but has real character and commitment issues.

On one of the previous mock drafts, they had us taking Konz. Konz and Molk were neck and neck for the Top Center awards this season. I think both will have long careers in the NFL. However, you can probably easily get Molk somewhere in rounds 3-5, while Konz is a first rounder. You have to weigh the opportunity cost of not picking up defensive talent at that point in the draft, especially when you can get another guy who will have a long career later in the draft. I'd say it's more hit or miss in the later rounds, so when you know you have a guy like Molk available later, it's better to pick defense.

As far as defensive backs, I'd really like the Patriots to stick with SEC DBs with few exceptions (Jayron Hosley, Janoris Jenkins [if you don't think his character issues are a problem] Shaun Prater, Josh Norman come to mind...also Dennard if he's still available). You're not facing the same speed in the Big East and the ACC. If they aren't facing speed in the college game, how do you expect them to face the speed of the pros? I want big physical corners who can move and I want safeties who can tackle, but are also tough and hit hard.

I guess the other big need is at wide receiver. A lot of these drafts have us taking Dwight Jones. He's got both size and speed, which clearly our current receivers lack. Other receivers that I like that I think will be good pros are AJ Jenkins, Marvin McNutt, and Jarius Wright. Jenkins caught 90 passes this past season; he's a go to guy with sure hands. He'll catch the ball anywhere and projects as a mid-round pick. He's got speed, but he's only 6 feetish. McNutt isn't as fast as Jenkins, but he's bigger, has good speed and is a very consistent pass catcher. Jarius Wright is a burner, but he's only 5-10. That's why I'd stray away from him.

It'll be interesting to see how this draft goes and whether Belichick addresses the major needs. It's also interesting since several marquee players are staying in school.

#108 Infield Infidel


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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:33 AM

I gotta say, the beginning part of that video was underwhelming.. I saw a guy who couldn't shed his block and tackle a RB for the life of him. Pushed his guy back a bit but quality of competition and all that in college (ie I have no idea how good Georgia's O-line is) I didn't see anything particularly eye-opening. But right around the 2:40 mark and all the way to the end? Wow.

What I see in the video is that, when the gameplan is to defend both the run and the pass, like it was early in the game, he's a little too tentative, and errs toward staying at home. But when the gameplan is pass defense, like it was after LSU took the lead, he'll go all over the place and make plays. I like it as long as the Pats have a good offense, since he's best a disrupting the passing game.

Since he's only 21, he has plenty of time for good coaching to coach that tentativeness out of him early in the game. Who knows, it might have just been nerves. My only worry is that he'll slow down if he adds weight. I view his agility as an asset; "filling out his frame" might not be beneficial

Edited by Infield Infidel, 19 January 2012 - 12:38 AM.


#109 phragle


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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:50 PM

Senior Bowl Weigh-In Results

http://www.nationalf...sults-6395.html

Edit: Better article

Edited by phragle, 23 January 2012 - 04:47 PM.


#110 pappymojo

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:47 PM

http://www.nationalf...-in-Mobile.html

- George Iloka, FS, Boise State: Size (6-3, 222), range and ball skills. What you want to see from a deep middle of the field safety. Needs to polish his man-coverage skills from a technique standpoint, but if he tests well at the Combine, he could rise up draft boards.


Currently projected as a 5th round pick (and I know the Pats don't currently have a 5th round pick but I assume we can and will trade down)

#111 tims4wins


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Posted 27 January 2012 - 02:02 PM

No worries, the Pats will just draft him in the 3rd

#112 bakahump

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 03:53 PM

First round talent. Played in SEC. Coached by a friend of belichick. I've seen this movie before. It ends well.


Hi, I'm Bill Belichick. Can you hold this bag for me?

#113 phragle


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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:26 PM

http://www.nationalf...-in-Mobile.html



Currently projected as a 5th round pick (and I know the Pats don't currently have a 5th round pick but I assume we can and will trade down)


Iloka is a great player, but he's not going to make it past the third round. He's likely a second round guy based on reports from senior bowl practices.

Edit: The Senior Bowl is tomorrow at 4 EST on NFL Network

Edited by phragle, 27 January 2012 - 11:38 PM.


#114 Marbleheader


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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

1st Round (Pick 27) (via New Orleans)
1st Round (Pick 31)
2nd Round (Pick 48) ( via Oakland)
2nd Round (Pick 63)
3rd Round (Pick 94)
4th Round (126)
7th Round (via Philadelphia)

Is it a forgone conclusion that BB trades #27 or #31? They have a 1,2,3,4,7 in 2013.

#115 ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)


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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

1st Round (Pick 27) (via New Orleans)
1st Round (Pick 31)
2nd Round (Pick 48) ( via Oakland)
2nd Round (Pick 63)
3rd Round (Pick 94)
4th Round (126
7th Round (via Philadelphia)

Is it a forgone conclusion that BB trades #27 or #31? They have a 1,2,3,4,7 in 2013.


Yes. They will not be comfortable with the big gap between rounds 4 and 7. There will be many moves on draft day to get the pats back into rounds 5 and 6 (I guess unless they hate hate this draft class). Those early picks carry the most currency and are the mist likely to be moved.

This strategy can be debated, their adherence to it cannot.

Edited by ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_), 06 February 2012 - 02:36 PM.


#116 phragle


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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

1st Round (Pick 27) (via New Orleans)
1st Round (Pick 31)
2nd Round (Pick 48) ( via Oakland)
2nd Round (Pick 63)
3rd Round (Pick 94)
4th Round (126)
7th Round (via Philadelphia)

Is it a forgone conclusion that BB trades #27 or #31? They have a 1,2,3,4,7 in 2013.


Is anything that BB does a foregone conclusion?

#117 pappymojo

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:42 PM

Is it a forgone conclusion that BB trades #27 or #31? They have a 1,2,3,4,7 in 2013.


Based on his history, if he trades one of those picks, it will probably be 31 that gets traded.

2003, had picks 14 (for D Bledsoe) and 19. Traded up from 14 to 13. Traded 19 for 41 and 2004 1st round pick.
2004, had picks 21 and 32. Used both.
2007, had 24 (for D Branch) and 28. Used 24 and traded 28 for 110 and 2008 1st round pick.
2008, lost their second 1st round pick due to spygate punishment.
2011, had 17 and 28. Used 17 and traded 28 for 56 and 2012 1st round pick.


#118 MainerInExile

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:45 PM

I'd be shocked if they didn't take a S and a C at some point in this draft. Given where they pick in the first round and how S and C are positions that don't go too early, I think they may have their pick.

#119 jsinger121


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Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:46 PM

I'd be shocked if they didn't take a S and a C at some point in this draft. Given where they pick in the first round and how S and C are positions that don't go too early, I think they may have their pick.


Barron who is the best safety should be long gone by 27. I could see him going as high as 16 to the Jets.

#120 MainerInExile

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:01 PM

Barron who is the best safety should be long gone by 27. I could see him going as high as 16 to the Jets.

Sure, and both Pounceys went earlier than #27, I think. I'm just saying that being at the end of the first round is a good place to choose S and C.

#121 jsinger121


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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

Sure, and both Pounceys went earlier than #27, I think. I'm just saying that being at the end of the first round is a good place to choose S and C.


I'm thinking Wisconsin center Peter Kronz should be there at 27.

#122 Papelbon's Poutine

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

Seen him in multiple mocks to the pats. Makes a lot of sense even with the holes on defense.

(null)

#123 shoosh77

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

I third the pick of Konz, and if Waters comes back allowing Cannon another year to learn, along with an improving Solder, the OL looks set for awhile. Maybe Branch from Clemson next at 31 (although I assume trade out),

#124 SoxScout


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:04 AM

Barron who is the best safety should be long gone by 27. I could see him going as high as 16 to the Jets.


He is also a strong safety, I don't think think we want two run-first safeties. In fact, safety is incredibly weak this year, the kid from ND is also a SS, and the best free safeties are round 3 and 4 guys.

Our best bet might be to target CBs and let McCourty and Dowling battle it out for CB in camp and have the other one the full time FS next to Chung. McCourty could be pretty good if he is focused there and plays with his eyes in the backfield.

While it would be nice to have a young stud center, I just don't think it is that important/glaring that we need to spend a top 4 pick on it. I'd put all D and WR as priorities over it.

#125 Scoops Bolling

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:57 AM

Add me to the list who doesn't want to see the team waste a 1st or 2nd rounder on a center; I'd much prefer to re-sign Connolly, and let him and Koppen handle that position for another year. Connolly could probably fit as a longer term solution there, and it's possible one of the practice squad guys eventually emerges to fill that role long term. It's just not such a glaring need as to warrant a top pick right now. How is this draft in terms of WRs?

#126 sachmoney


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

With Ben Jones, Michael Brewster, and David Molk still on the board, I don't think it's a priority to take a center in the first round. I wouldn't put it past Belichick to take a center, but that pick is better suited elsewhere. I think all four of those guys could potentially be good NFL players.

If cornerback does become the top priority, it'll be interesting to see who is available. Claiborne and Kirkpatrick both seem to be top 10-15 picks, even with the weed issue for Kirkpatrick. It'll be interesting to see how the rest breakdown. In the more recent mocks, I've seen Janoris Jenkins go in the late teens/early 20s. I'm not a huge fan of Alfonzo Dennard or even Gilmore for that matter. A couple of the guys that I like are Jayron Hosley and Shaun Prater. The Pats can get those guys in the second and third rounds.

A lot of the drafts have us taking Whitney Mercilus. I think he can play in both a 4-3 or a 3-4, and he's an excellent pass rusher. I think the big concern that teams might have is the fact that he only had one productive season (this past one). I'm not as worried. Not every great player is going to play all 3 years and be productive in college. A lot of these guys have to develop both physically and in their skill sets.

I don't know how much they're going to look at interior defensive linemen, but I like Jerel Worthy more than Fletcher Cox.

Wide receiver looks like it has decent depth.

#127 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

He is also a strong safety, I don't think think we want two run-first safeties. In fact, safety is incredibly weak this year, the kid from ND is also a SS, and the best free safeties are round 3 and 4 guys.


I don't like Barron for many of the same reasons but I hope the team takes a longer look at Harrison Smith (the "kid from ND"). I'm not sure that its correct to pigeonhole Smith as a SS, although that's how many draft sites describe him. He is by all accounts a very cerebral player and also a very good athlete (ran 4.4 as a very highly recruited prep, now runs 4.5, pretty good fludity, etc) who has played in just about every role possible at ND over the last few years. Weiss put him at OLB and ILB in 2009 just because he was such a good athlete that they wanted to get him on the field somehow (they had two senior safeties already). The last two years he was moved back to S and has played at times more like a run support SS and at others more like a FS centerfielder. He has flashed good ball skills (7 INT in 2010) and has been competitive lining up over slot receivers. To me, he looks like a prototypical "combo safety" in the NFL and I think a pairing of that type of combo guy with Chung - himself also essentially a combo player - could actually work pretty well.

Mayock said this recently:

"I think he is one of the best safeties in the country and I thought he had a great year this year," said Mayock. "He didn't have seven interceptions like he did the year before, but keep in mind I think three of them came against [Miami]. This year he made a bunch of plays on the ball, he tackled extremely well. He is the leader of the secondary. He is one of the smartest kids I think I've met as far as understanding the game of football and I think he'll be surprisingly athletic when they test him at the combine, so I'd be really surprised if he didn't go in the first two rounds."

Edited by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, 07 February 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#128 jsinger121


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:30 AM

I don't like Barron for many of the same reasons but I hope the team takes a longer look at Harrison Smith (the "kid from ND"). I'm not sure that its correct to pigeonhole Smith as a SS, although that's how many draft sites describe him. He is by all accounts a very cerebral player and also a very good athlete (ran 4.4 as a very highly recruited prep, now runs 4.5, pretty good fludity, etc) who has played in just about every role possible at ND over the last few years. Weiss put him at OLB and ILB in 2009 just because he was such a good athlete that they wanted to get him on the field somehow (they had two senior safeties already). The last two years he was moved back to S and has played at times more like a run support SS and at others more like a FS centerfielder. He has flashed good ball skills (7 INT in 2010) and has been competitive lining up over slot receivers. To me, he looks like a prototypical "combo safety" in the NFL and I think a pairing of that type of combo guy with Chung - himself also essentially a combo player - could actually work pretty well.

Mayock said this recently:

"I think he is one of the best safeties in the country and I thought he had a great year this year," said Mayock. "He didn't have seven interceptions like he did the year before, but keep in mind I think three of them came against [Miami]. This year he made a bunch of plays on the ball, he tackled extremely well. He is the leader of the secondary. He is one of the smartest kids I think I've met as far as understanding the game of football and I think he'll be surprisingly athletic when they test him at the combine, so I'd be really surprised if he didn't go in the first two rounds."


We know BB likes captain's and Harrison Smith was one of the captain's of Notre Dame in 2011 so he is a very good possibility. I'd expect the Pats to work him out privately.

#129 Shelterdog


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

I don't like Barron for many of the same reasons but I hope the team takes a longer look at Harrison Smith (the "kid from ND"). I'm not sure that its correct to pigeonhole Smith as a SS, although that's how many draft sites describe him. He is by all accounts a very cerebral player and also a very good athlete (ran 4.4 as a very highly recruited prep, now runs 4.5, pretty good fludity, etc) who has played in just about every role possible at ND over the last few years. Weiss put him at OLB and ILB in 2009 just because he was such a good athlete that they wanted to get him on the field somehow (they had two senior safeties already). The last two years he was moved back to S and has played at times more like a run support SS and at others more like a FS centerfielder. He has flashed good ball skills (7 INT in 2010) and has been competitive lining up over slot receivers. To me, he looks like a prototypical "combo safety" in the NFL and I think a pairing of that type of combo guy with Chung - himself also essentially a combo player - could actually work pretty well.


I don't think BB is all that hung up on having a classic ballhawking safety-he's been playing Ihedgibo all season long for Pete's sake. Throw in the fact that Harrison Smith would be a good STer and he looks like a very nice fit.

#130 Super Nomario


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

I don't think BB is all that hung up on having a classic ballhawking safety-he's been playing Ihedgibo all season long for Pete's sake. Throw in the fact that Harrison Smith would be a good STer and he looks like a very nice fit.

I'm not sure; he played Ihedigbo when Chung was hurt, and then primarily in running situations once Chung returned. There were a few Ihedigbo / Chung games early in the season, but that was when Barrett was hurt and Brown had already established he couldn't play. The McCourty-to-FS move seemed calculated specifically to address the need for more of a ball-hawking safety.

Edited by Super Nomario, 07 February 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#131 SMU_Sox


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:49 PM

I'm not sure; he played Ihedigbo when Chung was hurt, and then primarily in running situations once Chung returned. There were a few Ihedigbo / Chung games early in the season, but that was when Barrett was hurt and Brown had already established he couldn't play. The McCourty-to-FS move seemed calculated specifically to address the need for more of a ball-hawking safety.


Yeah, I was going to reply something like this. I think BB played Ihedigbo more because he didn't have better options.

#132 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

I'm not sure; he played Ihedigbo when Chung was hurt, and then primarily in running situations once Chung returned. There were a few Ihedigbo / Chung games early in the season, but that was when Barrett was hurt and Brown had already established he couldn't play. The McCourty-to-FS move seemed calculated specifically to address the need for more of a ball-hawking safety.


I think what both Shelter and I are arguing is that there's no reason to believe that BB feels like we need a "pure" FS to complement Chung, who himself is more of a hybrid player. Actually, I think there's a strong argument that the ideal situation for our defense would be to have two hybrid safeties, who could each play in a variety of roles, as that maximizes flexibility and disguise. So while we might not want to draft an in-the-box SS, we very well might want a guy like Smith who looks like a hybrid.

#133 Shelterdog


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

I think what both Shelter and I are arguing is that there's no reason to believe that BB feels like we need a "pure" FS to complement Chung, who himself is more of a hybrid player. Actually, I think there's a strong argument that the ideal situation for our defense would be to have two hybrid safeties, who could each play in a variety of roles, as that maximizes flexibility and disguise. So while we might not want to draft an in-the-box SS, we very well might want a guy like Smith who looks like a hybrid.


Exactly.

To put it differently, if you felt strongly about having a ball hawking type on the field you'd never, ever play Digs (or Sanders) and Chung, yet they've done that pretty frequently over the past few years. I'm sure he sees a need to upgrade the safety position, but I'm not sure that he'd stay away from a good hybrid of SS type if one was available.

Oh, Barron is apparently out until July or August with a double sports hernia.

#134 MainerInExile

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:34 PM

Add me to the list who doesn't want to see the team waste a 1st or 2nd rounder on a center; I'd much prefer to re-sign Connolly, and let him and Koppen handle that position for another year. Connolly could probably fit as a longer term solution there, and it's possible one of the practice squad guys eventually emerges to fill that role long term. It's just not such a glaring need as to warrant a top pick right now. How is this draft in terms of WRs?

Both Koppen and Connolly are free agents. If BB can take care of that position for 10 years with a late first round pick, he'll do it, and it will make a ton of sense.

#135 phragle


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:45 PM

Exactly.

To put it differently, if you felt strongly about having a ball hawking type on the field you'd never, ever play Digs (or Sanders) and Chung, yet they've done that pretty frequently over the past few years. I'm sure he sees a need to upgrade the safety position, but I'm not sure that he'd stay away from a good hybrid of SS type if one was available.

Oh, Barron is apparently out until July or August with a double sports hernia.


I'd have to think this bumps him out of the first round. He could be a great value pick.

I'm not sure if I've said it, but I think Barron is a great, well rounded safety that would fit well with the Patriots. He might play SS at Alabama, but anyone that has watched as many Alabama game as I have would know he is every bit the coverage safety that Lester is (their free safety).

#136 jsinger121


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:50 PM

I'd have to think this bumps him out of the first round. He could be a great value pick.

I'm not sure if I've said it, but I think Barron is a great, well rounded safety that would fit well with the Patriots. He might play SS at Alabama, but anyone that has watched as many Alabama game as I have would know he is every bit the coverage safety that Lester is (their free safety).


I agree with this. Thought he was great in coverage against LSU in that 9-6 loss in the first matchup. Had a huge pick in that game as well. He is a definite play maker.

#137 phragle


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:59 PM

I agree with this. Thought he was great in coverage against LSU in that 9-6 loss in the first matchup. Had a huge pick in that game as well. He is a definite play maker.


Yeah, and he has some question marks about his speed and quickness. I'm not and injury expert, but I think this disallow him to do anything at the combine.

While I feel bad for him, it could be a good thing for the Pats.

#138 Shelterdog


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

While I feel bad for him, it could be a good thing for the Pats.


Although it would be incredibly annoying if we picked him and he did miss some time because then every single time he missed a snap we would have to hear about how the Pats are just morons who always waste draft picks on injured players.

#139 Otto

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:25 PM

I trust I'm not the only one here who is interested in the official Combine list, which was released today:

http://www.nflcombin...ial-invite-list

#140 Morning Woodhead

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

If he's still available, I'd love to see Fletcher Cox, or maybe even Brockers. With all the attention Vince gets, I'd love team him up with a 2nd dominant player on the line. Love has been steady this year, but with all the doubles Vince gets, we should be getting more production out of our ends than we're currently getting. If nothing else, it would help free up our LB's.

All that said, seems like a really week year for DL, but strong for LB's, so maybe this is finally the year we get a high draft pick on a 3-4 rush linebacker.

#141 SoxScout


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:20 PM

Both Koppen and Connolly are free agents. If BB can take care of that position for 10 years with a late first round pick, he'll do it, and it will make a ton of sense.


Or he could just sign Connolly, who was fine, and still have the picks to upgrade areas of much greater need. I think that makes a ton more sense.

#142 phragle


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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:25 PM

Or he could just sign Connolly, who was fine, and still have the picks to upgrade areas of much greater need. I think that makes a ton more sense.


Seriously. No need to go creating holes to draft somebody that may or may not be available.

#143 bowiac


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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

I'm pretty happy trying to upgrade Connolly. He wasn't a nightmare, but he was the weak link on the offensive line this year. He had a good Super Bowl, but if they used a 3rd or a 4th round pick to pick up David Molk or someone, I wouldn't complain.

I agree that they shouldn't use a first/second rounder on a center however.

#144 axx

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

Yes. They will not be comfortable with the big gap between rounds 4 and 7.


The Pats don't have a 7th round pick. Their own pick was traded as part of the Moss to Minny deal. The Pats should be able to fill their holes with the 6 picks they do have; so I don't think it's a big issue.

On Barron, bet Saban is giving BB the hard sell at the Pro Am, heh. Still thinking WR at #27; although Kendall Wright is the only guy on the list that interests me. He has the speed that I am looking for. Too bad he's not a bit taller.

As for #31, trade down/out for a team looking for a QB.

#145 soxfan121


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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

Good news - the deepest positions in the 2012 draft, complete with top 100 possibilities.

NFP's draft coverage is excellent - and seems to be free.

ETA: Guys graded as "high character / overachievers" I think the Pats might look at:
Chris Marve, ILB
Carmen Messina, ILB
Mike Martin, DT
Brandon Hardin, DB (uh-oh, I think I may be in love)
David Molk, C
George Bryan, TE
Brad Smelley, TE

An H-back (Smelley) or a lesser-Gronk (Bryan) makes some sense to safeguard against injury, allow Hernandez to play more WR/RB and field the first 5 TE offense. Marve & Messina sound like Fletcher & Tarpinian and there's always a couple of those guys in camp. Martin's a wrestler and reminiscent of Mike Wright. Molk has shortcomings but is intriguing at a potential position of need. And Hardin might be BB's favorite kind of player - a DB conversion project with physical tools, a high character motor and a passion for special teams play.A potential 4-down player at a "position of need" - backup/developmental safety.

Edited by soxfan121, 10 February 2012 - 11:48 PM.


#146 j44thor

  • 4026 posts

Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:38 AM

Why all the talk about S/CB in the draft? The glaring weakess on this team which has been a weakness for years now is the pass rush. The best CB's in the NFL don't stand a chance in today's NFL without a viable pass rush. The rules are simply too pro passing in any facet except getting to the QB.

Bill's biggest mistake over the last 5 or so drafts was ignoring the pass rush (DE/OLB) and instead wasting countless picks on the secondary.

Compare that to what HOU has done drafting the likes of JJ Watt, Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed. That has allowed them to have a top 5 defense with the likes of Jason Allen, Daniel Manning and Conor Brice at C/B. Jonathan Joseph is arguably their only above average starter in the secondary.

I would love to see Bill use every single pick in the draft to come up with 2 great pass rushers. Pass rushers also tend to have a quicker learning curve and can thus provide an immediate impact to the team as opposed to waiting 2-3 seasons for a CB/S prospect to develop.

#147 ivanvamp


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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:54 AM

Why all the talk about S/CB in the draft? The glaring weakess on this team which has been a weakness for years now is the pass rush. The best CB's in the NFL don't stand a chance in today's NFL without a viable pass rush. The rules are simply too pro passing in any facet except getting to the QB.

Bill's biggest mistake over the last 5 or so drafts was ignoring the pass rush (DE/OLB) and instead wasting countless picks on the secondary.

Compare that to what HOU has done drafting the likes of JJ Watt, Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed. That has allowed them to have a top 5 defense with the likes of Jason Allen, Daniel Manning and Conor Brice at C/B. Jonathan Joseph is arguably their only above average starter in the secondary.

I would love to see Bill use every single pick in the draft to come up with 2 great pass rushers. Pass rushers also tend to have a quicker learning curve and can thus provide an immediate impact to the team as opposed to waiting 2-3 seasons for a CB/S prospect to develop.


That's not a bad idea, IMO. They're bound to find one or two really good pass rushers if that's all they spend their picks on. I think they definitely improved in that area, though, as the season went on. Here's their pressure numbers in the playoffs:

vs Den: 5 sacks, 8 QB hits
vs Bal: 3 sacks, 7 QB hits
vs NYG: 3 sacks, 6 QB hits
AVG: 3.7 sacks, 7 QB hits

That's not bad. Projected over a full season, that comes to: 59 sacks, 112 QB hits.

So they were getting decent pressure towards the end of the season. That said, it would be really nice to have a full-throttle, explosive pass rush.

#148 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

Why all the talk about S/CB in the draft? The glaring weakess on this team which has been a weakness for years now is the pass rush. The best CB's in the NFL don't stand a chance in today's NFL without a viable pass rush. The rules are simply too pro passing in any facet except getting to the QB.

Bill's biggest mistake over the last 5 or so drafts was ignoring the pass rush (DE/OLB) and instead wasting countless picks on the secondary.

Compare that to what HOU has done drafting the likes of JJ Watt, Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed. That has allowed them to have a top 5 defense with the likes of Jason Allen, Daniel Manning and Conor Brice at C/B. Jonathan Joseph is arguably their only above average starter in the secondary.

I would love to see Bill use every single pick in the draft to come up with 2 great pass rushers. Pass rushers also tend to have a quicker learning curve and can thus provide an immediate impact to the team as opposed to waiting 2-3 seasons for a CB/S prospect to develop.


We had 40 sacks last season, slightly above league average, while rarely blitzing (classic blitz players, such as ILBs and DBs, gave us almost zero sack production). Houston had 44 sacks, not exactly a massive difference.

I'd love to see us draft an OLB/DE in the first few rounds if that's the best available player among our several need positions. But the pass rush wasn't really such a problem last year, certainly not a "glaring weakness."

#149 sachmoney


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Posted 11 February 2012 - 02:17 PM

They were middle of the pack in sacks. They were second in the league in interceptions, but second to bottom in passing yards (interestingly enough, Green Bay was first in picks and last in yards). The Pats were also near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt. I'd like to see an improvement in the pass rush to get more sacks and be more disruptive, but I'd also like to see a secondary that does not give up a lot of YAC, i.e. wraps up receivers. You've got to lower that yards per attempt number.

I don't have a problem with Sterling Moore, if he continues to play near to how he did at the end of the season/playoffs. Kyle Arrington, I see more as a nickelback type with his size. He was having a lot of trouble supporting the run against bigger blocking WR in the SB. That's a concern, and he had trouble wrapping up receivers during the season. I think the definitive answer to whether you draft another defensive back and what position they play is dependent on your long-term plan for McCourty and Ras-I. I'd love to see a Jayron Hosley or Shaun Prater type with a 2-4 pick.

What I'm looking for in a front seven guy is not only talent, but also toughness. I want someone with a little nasty whose nastiness will rub off on the rest of the team. That's why I like Jerel Worthy. I want someone who's not going to get pushed around. This defense used to be tough. I don't think I can say that about them anymore.

#150 j44thor

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 03:00 PM

We had 40 sacks last season, slightly above league average, while rarely blitzing (classic blitz players, such as ILBs and DBs, gave us almost zero sack production). Houston had 44 sacks, not exactly a massive difference.

I'd love to see us draft an OLB/DE in the first few rounds if that's the best available player among our several need positions. But the pass rush wasn't really such a problem last year, certainly not a "glaring weakness."


How much of the Pats pass rush is a function of the offense having huge leads that forced teams to pass late in games? I don't think anyone would argue that the HOU pass rush was on another level than NE's and HOU didn't have close to the offense that NE had. Sack #'s can be rather deceiving, sure it is nice to be able to put teams away but more often than not the Pats D would struggle early in games on 3rd and long and I would argue it was more a function of a lack of pass rush and less on the CB's.

CB's are similar to RB's in that if you don't have a good line their talents are largely wasted. Good OL/DL can make average CB & RB's look good.