762 replies to this topic

[Marbleheader]

Now that we're about to turn the calendar to 2012, we have a pretty good idea where the Pats and Saints will be drafting, somewhere in the bottom 5 picks of the draft. Who would you like them to target in that range? The Pats will also have 2 2nds, 1 3rd, 1 4th and no picks thereafter. They do not have their usual stockpile of picks, and in 2013 they only have their own 1,2,3,4,7. My guess is they trade at least one of the first rounders to pick up some extra picks, and probably trade a 2nd as well. My guess is they take a DE with one of their firsts, as the position is plenty deep. The Andrew Luck story will obviously be the focus of this draft, but it looks to be a solid draft class overall.

[jsinger121]

Like to see them get Mark Barron with one of those 1st rounders to play next to Patrick Chung.

[SMU_Sox]

Just a heads up... I've looked at multiple D-Line and OLB potentials. And while those positions are not a strength in this draft there are probably upgrades over some of our core/rotation.

[Shelterdog]

Isn't the answer to the off-season needs 1 WR and as many good defensive players-at any position other than maybe ILB-as possible? Maybe if you see a stellar talent at C or G you can take them but there's no reason to draft a QB, LT, RT, TE or RB in the first four or five rounds, but you could use help everyone on defense.

[koufax32]

We can mark it down that one at least one of the 1sts will be traded for more a 2nd plus whatever else. We can !lao safely assume one of the seconds will be traded for a 1st next year. Let's just hope it's a team like TB or MIN. So we're probably looking at using one 1st and 2 seconds. I expect at least one DB out of these. After that? I'm done mocking olbs and des to this team.

[Hendu's Gait]

Like to see them get Mark Barron with one of those 1st rounders to play next to Patrick Chung.

It's not their MO (except for Mayo), but would love to see them trade up and grab Kirkpatrick or Claiborne if one of them slides. But it's a fantasy as of this point.

[ShaneTrot]

It's not their MO (except for Mayo), but would love to see them trade up and grab Kirkpatrick or Claiborne if one of them slides. But it's a fantasy as of this point.

NE traded down to get Mayo. He was the tenth pick in 2008, NE owned the seventh pick (from SF). New England traded its first- and fifth-round selections (No. 7 and 164) to New Orleans for New Orleans' first- and third-round selections (No. 10 and 78). The 78th pick was Crable. Interestingly, with the 164th pick, NO picked Carl Nicks, a Pro Bowl guard.

BTW, I know we give NE a lot of shit for lousy drafting between 2006-2008 but take a look at the 2008 draft. It was pretty mediocre.

[pappymojo]

I don't watch enough college football to offer names, but I do regularly check in on Drafttek. Their latest mock has us taking the following:

Round 1, Pick 28 (saints): OC Peter Konz from Wisconsin
Round 1, Pick 31: FS Robert Lester from Alabama
Round 2, Pick 51 (raiders): OLB Nick Perry from USC
Round 2, Pick 63: OG Cordy Glenn from Georgia
Round 3, Pick 94: WR Marvin McNutt from Iowa
Round 4, Pick 126: DE David Kruger from Utah

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1.asp

Based on the Dolphins game, a center, a free safety and a linebacker as the top three picks make sense to me.

[Seels]

I think Oline is the one thing that would really piss me off in the first round. Oline isn't a problem on the team unless they have reason to believe Vollmer will never return to 2010 form. Yes, they need to upgrade interior line, but that is so far down the list of shit to fix that it can just be put off. I'd seriously rather they take any other non QB / special teams position with that pick.

I'm hoping for some combination of best defensive player on the board with both of the first two picks, position somewhat irrelevant. With one of the 2nd round picks take a WR, and the other use it on more BPA.

A guard and center with two top picks? Yuck.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Isn't compensation for the top picks much lower now than before (due to the new CBA), which makes it less odious for salary cap purposes to draft up at the top than previously?

If so, I could see them trading up, if there's a player they really like, when in the past, they've always traded down, down, down

[Shelterdog]

I think Oline is the one thing that would really piss me off in the first round. Oline isn't a problem on the team unless they have reason to believe Vollmer will never return to 2010 form. Yes, they need to upgrade interior line, but that is so far down the list of shit to fix that it can just be put off. I'd seriously rather they take any other non QB / special teams position with that pick.

I'm hoping for some combination of best defensive player on the board with both of the first two picks, position somewhat irrelevant. With one of the 2nd round picks take a WR, and the other use it on more BPA.

A guard and center with two top picks? Yuck.

I wouldn't get worked up about it; it's just some random mock draft. BB has generally avoided using multiple high draft picks on the same position group, and with Wendell/Thomas/Ohrnberger/Connolly/Waters/Cannon you've got enough beef that you don't need a second rookie lineman.

[Shelterdog]

Isn't compensation for the top picks much lower now than before (due to the new CBA), which makes it less odious for salary cap purposes to draft up at the top than previously?

If so, I could see them trading up, if there's a player they really like, when in the past, they've always traded down, down, down

Sure, but every other team in the league will also like top ten picks more, so it'll be more expensive in terms of picks to move up. It's gone from "virtually impossible" to "5% chance".

They also have moved up a lot over time (Chad Jackson, Ty Warren, Dan Graham) but that's a different discussion.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I know this is a draft thread, but with regards to offseason needs, free agents should be aplenty in 2012. Charlie Casserly reported last week that the salary cap is expected to increase only slightly, leading the the most free agents in NFL history. Obviously the franchise tag can block any of these players, but this site gives a pretty good rundown of available players that might factor in team's drafts.

[pappymojo]

I think Oline is the one thing that would really piss me off in the first round. Oline isn't a problem on the team unless they have reason to believe Vollmer will never return to 2010 form. Yes, they need to upgrade interior line, but that is so far down the list of shit to fix that it can just be put off. I'd seriously rather they take any other non QB / special teams position with that pick.

A guard and center with two top picks? Yuck.

I don't know. Koppen is 32 and played one game this year (injured reserve with a leg injury). Is Dan Connolly/Ryan Wendell a viable solution at center if Koppen's injury has long term ramifications?

[Lose Remerswaal]

Sure, but every other team in the league will also like top ten picks more, so it'll be more expensive in terms of picks to move up. It's gone from "virtually impossible" to "5% chance".

They also have moved up a lot over time (Chad Jackson, Ty Warren, Dan Graham) but that's a different discussion.

But the Pats DO have the 2 first round picks, so a team with many needs would still be interested in moving from (say) 15th to 25th and 26th, and the Pats might also like that move, while in the past, the Pats would prefer lower overhead players than number 15. Every other team may like 'em but only the Pats, Cincy, and Cleveland have the multiple first round picks to do anything about it. At this time.

[pappymojo]

But the Pats DO have the 2 first round picks, so a team with many needs would still be interested in moving from (say) 15th to 25th and 26th, and the Pats might also like that move, while in the past, the Pats would prefer lower overhead players than number 15. Every other team may like 'em but only the Pats, Cincy, and Cleveland have the multiple first round picks to do anything about it. At this time.

25th and 26th? I'll be surprised if either of our picks is before 27. We could very well have the 31st and 32nd picks.

[Shelterdog]

But the Pats DO have the 2 first round picks, so a team with many needs would still be interested in moving from (say) 15th to 25th and 26th, and the Pats might also like that move, while in the past, the Pats would prefer lower overhead players than number 15. Every other team may like 'em but only the Pats, Cincy, and Cleveland have the multiple first round picks to do anything about it. At this time.

If you look at the numbers, it's really the salaries in the top eight or so that are going to change. The number 10 or 15 pick has never been particularly cost prohibitive - Mayo's rookie contract as the 10th pick was 5 years, 19 million which isn't all that much for a probable starter, but that same year Jake Long's contract as the first pick was five years, 57.5 million, and the number six pick (Gholston) has about a five year/40 million contract. The problem with going up to 10 or 15 is the number of picks you have to give up, not the amount of salary.

It's never been salary prohibitive to move up to 8 or 10 or 15 in the draft, but the Pats just generally opted not to.

EDIT: To expand on it, when the Pats moved from 7th to 10th in the 2008 draft, they went from having to give out a 5 year/32 million contract (which Sedrick Ellis got) to 5/19 for Mayo. Under the old system every pick from 10th to 1st makes about 4 million more (over the life of the contract) than the next pick. People claim that they literally could not trade top six draft picks if they wanted to, and there's some evidence for that--I'm pretty sure the Mark Sanchez and Julion Jones are the only top six pick that was traded from 2005 and 2011.

Edited by Shelterdog, 27 December 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[phragle]

I also like Mark Barron. While he is projected to be more of a strong safety, he is really good in coverage too. That along with the free safeties atop the draft are very inconsistent, Markelle Martin, Robert lester, and TJ McDonald (staying at UCS anyway).

If he comes out I want Rashard Hall (Clemson) and he should go in the 5th round. He's the best FS I've seen footage of so far.

Same with FS/CB Janzen Jackson. I think he offers too much potential/value to not pick up in the 7th or as a UFA. I don't care about off the field issues.

It's harder to find front 7 players because they have to fit the scheme. Not sure if Flectcher Cox fits the scheme, but I'd like to see him at DE. He's 6'4" 295 (unofficial) and mauls SEC O-lines from the 2 gap. I like him more than Devon Still for 1st round 3-4 DEs.

[swr22]

I don't watch enough college football to offer names, but I do regularly check in on Drafttek. Their latest mock has us taking the following:

Round 1, Pick 28 (saints): OC Peter Konz from Wisconsin
Round 1, Pick 31: FS Robert Lester from Alabama
Round 2, Pick 51 (raiders): OLB Nick Perry from USC
Round 2, Pick 63: OG Cordy Glenn from Georgia
Round 3, Pick 94: WR Marvin McNutt from Iowa
Round 4, Pick 126: DE David Kruger from Utah

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1.asp

Based on the Dolphins game, a center, a free safety and a linebacker as the top three picks make sense to me.

As a season ticket holder at USC I would be very pleased to see Nick Perry in a Pats jersey. He was our best pass rush threat for the last couple of years and would have had even better stats this year if he wasn't consistently being held all the time... Seems to have the size to transfer to OLB. Kruger would also probably be value down in the 4th round.

[koufax32]

So Walter football has created a draft site database which basically is the motherlode of good mock drafts. It includes the date of the most recent update for each one. I've not seen it there before so I'm not certain how actively they update the updates. Enjoy.


Mock Draft Site Database

[Section15Box113]

Remember: Go Lions.

Eliminate the Saints? We pick earlier.

[Hendu for Kutch]

Remember: Go Lions.

Eliminate the Saints? We pick earlier.

Yep. Lions win and we get pick #24, guaranteed. Saints have the best record of any team playing this weekend, so they'd be last to pick among the Wild-Card round losers.

[bowiac]

I wonder with the lack of safeties available if the Patriots are going to look hard at taking another cornerback with the idea of moving either said corner to safety, or McCourty/Dowling there long term.

[koufax32]

I wonder with the lack of safeties available if the Patriots are going to look hard at taking another cornerback with the idea of moving either said corner to safety, or McCourty/Dowling there long term.

IIRC there was talk at draft time last year about shifting Dowling there. Am I making that up?

[Shelterdog]

IIRC there was talk at draft time last year about shifting Dowling there. Am I making that up?

Yes, but it was all fan speculation based on (a) his size and (b) the premise that we were set at corner with some combination of DMC/Bodden/Butler/Arrington/Wilhite-and we end up cutting most of those guys. Then they line him up exclusively at outside corner, and he looked good doing it for the handful of games he actually played, so at this point you've got to be thinking he's a corner first if he's healthy.

[I12XU]

So Walter football has created a draft site database which basically is the motherlode of good mock drafts. It includes the date of the most recent update for each one. I've not seen it there before so I'm not certain how actively they update the updates. Enjoy.


Mock Draft Site Database

hailredskins.com has done this for years, highlighting the 'skins pick and noting if it was a fan, media, pseudomedia, etc site; someone last year did it for the Pats, but it wasn't nearly as complete or updated regularly.

Edited by I12XU, 05 January 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Shelterdog]

IIRC there was talk at draft time last year about shifting Dowling there. Am I making that up?

Yes, but it was all fan speculation based on (a) his size and (b) the premise that we were set at corner with some combination of DMC/Bodden/Butler/Arrington/Wilhite-and we end up cutting most of those guys. Then they line him up exclusively at outside corner, and he looked good doing it for the handful of games he actually played, so at this point you've got to be thinking he's a corner first if he's healthy.

[ragnarok725]

Yes, but it was all fan speculation based on (a) his size and (b) the premise that we were set at corner with some combination of DMC/Bodden/Butler/Arrington/Wilhite-and we end up cutting most of those guys. Then they line him up exclusively at outside corner, and he looked good doing it for the handful of games he actually played, so at this point you've got to be thinking he's a corner first if he's healthy.

Belichick, when he was drafted, said they drafted him as a corner and were going to play him at corner:

"He's got a lot of qualities that we like in a corner," Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick said in a press conference following Day 2 of the Draft. "He's a smart kid, been in a good program, done well in that system. We can see him playing all the different types of coverages that, at some point or another, we would use. He's a good tackler, plays well in the kicking game, so I think he'll be a good addition for us."
...
"He hasn't played safety," Belichick said. "But I think he has the size, ball skills and tackling ability that you could probably make an argument that he could project in there if you wanted him to. I think for right now, we'll play him at the corner, but he is big. He does tackle well. He's tough. He's got good range, good ball skills. I wouldn't say that he couldn't play in there, but that isn't really what he's done."

Sounds like Bill liked him at corner, and what he saw made him start Dowling there on opening night. If he'd remained healthy, maybe he gets tried at safety before McCourty does - who knows. But, I think he's a corner until he proves he can't play there.
Link: http://www.streaking...ion-in-2011-nfl

Edited by ragnarok725, 06 January 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Super Nomario]

There are really two secondary spots where the Pats have had a revolving door this year. One is the safety spot opposite Chung, where they've tried Brown, Barrett, Ihedigbo, Moore, Slater, Jones, McCourty, and Ventrone, none with great results. The other spot is the star / nickelback, where they started with Bodden but have also tried Barrett, Arrington, Molden, Adams, Edelman, and Jones. They seem OK at outside corner with McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, and Molden, but I'm not sure there's a solution to either the safety or the star spot on the roster.

[SoxScout]

Osweiler announces he is leaving Arizona State, will be interesting to see what the advisery board told him and if he even cared. He could have a monster workout season.

Arkansas' Tyler Wilson asked for a grade too, hopfully a few of these guys come out now that Barkley and Jones arn't, and hopfully one jumps into the first round helping us out.

[axx]

Well, it could be an opportunity for the Pats. You know one of the first rounders is going to be traded, and I could see a team trading up to get one of the second tier QBs (in the first round despite what the draft grade says). The Pats would move down 10-12 spots and pick up a third rounder for their troubles.

[SoxScout]

Luke Kuechly declared for the draft just now. Bizarrely, it's been rumored he was coming back the last few days.

[Beomoose]

Trade all their picks for #1. Draft luck. Trade him to Seattle for Beast Mode and their LFL franchise. Laugh at Indy's misery.

[jsinger121]

No surprise as RG3 declares.

[ivanvamp]

Thought I'd throw out some names that people are projecting might go to New England in the 1st round.

From (http://www.cbssports...out-DaneBrugler):

#28 - Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina: The Patriots' defense ranks last in the NFL in pass defense, allowing almost 300 yards per game, and must be addressed in the draft. Gilmore is supremely confident and aggressive, playing with a chip on his shoulder and a finishing attitude. His active, physical playing style will make him a top-40 pick if he decides to turn pro.

#31 - Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina: If Jeffery falls this far, the Patriots will be tempted to pull the trigger on this talented receiver from South Carolina. New England has been able to ride the arm of Tom Brady with an average group of receivers (not including Wes Welker) and could use a big, physical presence like Jeffery to create mismatches downfield.


From (http://www.cbssports...ftscout-RobRang)

#28 - Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State: Cox will appeal to Bill Belichick for various reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the 6-4, 295-pound junior is just scratching the surface of his potential. And make no mistake, the potential is there for Cox to be a star. The Bulldog defensive tackle earned the SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week four times this season and is highly regarded by scouts because of his size, strength and ability to play inside or out in multiple fronts. That type of versatility will also certainly intrigue Belichick.

#31 - Andre Branch, DE, Clemson: A defensive end for the Clemson Tigers, Branch's value could rise exponentially if the 6-4, 260-pound senior proves as fluid in workouts as he appears when chasing down ballcarriers. The Patriots received some pretty strong play this season from veterans Andre Carter and Mark Anderson but in Branch the team would have a pass rusher capable of lining up at defensive end or rushing the passer from the two point stance should the Patriots revert back to Belichick's customary 3-4 defense in 2012.


From (http://sportsillustr...hp&sct=hp_wr_a5)

#28 - Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina: The Patriots are never predictable, but you have to figure they'll go pretty heavy on defense in this draft. They've seemed hesitant to take a pass-rusher, but they need to improve in that area. Scouts are waiting to see how Ingram runs to see where he'll be slotted. New England could also look at Clemson DE Andre Branch here.

#31 - Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech: Hosley had nine interceptions in 2010, but was banged up last season and took a step back. The Pats have been using converted offensive players in their secondary; they need bodies.


From (http://www.sbnation....ert-griffin-iii)

#30 - Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State: Scoring a gazillion points per game helped camouflage a defense that just wasn't very good this year. They need some youth and some power along their defensive line. Worthy is a good five technique who solidifies their defensive front.

#31 - Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia: The Patriots also need pass rushers, regardless of what defensive scheme they opt for in 2012. Irvin has impressive raw rushing skills and blazing speed. Obviously, Bill Belichick will be trading one or both of these picks.


From (http://www.footballd...kDraft2012.html)

#27 - TJ McDonald, S, USC: Although one of the Patriots first rounders will likely be traded, we have them going with TJ McDonald here to help improve a porous Patriots secondary. McDonald is a good athlete with good bloodlines (son of NFL All-Pro safety Tim McDonald), something Belichick looks for. He is also a team Captain as a Junior and excels in coverage as well as stopping the run. He should give the Patriots a solid player across from Patrick Chung to shore up their secondary.

#28 - Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama: Although the Patriots don't often select LBs in the first round, they buck the trend and select Upshaw to bolster their porour pass rush. With Upshaw, they get a tough, physical, savvy defender that likes to use his power to get after the QB. At Alabama, Upshaw is primarily used as a rusher, but he also does a lot of the little things well like jamming the TE, containing the QB, and shutting down screen passes. Belichick will love the scheme versatility that Upshaw brings as a potential 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB, and 3-4 ILB.



I am a believer that the Pats need to draft defense, defense, and defense. So of these mocks, my two favorite are the one from Rob Rang of cbssportsline, and the one from the footballdraftnotebook.com. I love Upshaw, but Cox is an intriguing player.

[phragle]

I am a believer that the Pats need to draft defense, defense, and defense. So of these mocks, my two favorite are the one from Rob Rang of cbssportsline, and the one from the footballdraftnotebook.com. I love Upshaw, but Cox is an intriguing player.

Well McDonald is staying at USC.

Walter has an updated 4 round mock today http://walterfootbal...m/draft2012.php

30. Jerel Worthy
31. Mark Barron
48. Brandon Jenkins (I think he said he's staying at school)
63. Dwight Jones
94. Brian Quick
126. Ryan Steed

Pretty awful. I don't really know why I even posted it. These mockers don't really address needs, and have no clue about Belichick's specific requirements.

[jsinger121]

Barron should likely go higher after his teams BCS Title Game performance. Plus there will be teams that will need a safety.

[ivanvamp]

Well McDonald is staying at USC.

Walter has an updated 4 round mock today http://walterfootbal...m/draft2012.php

30. Jerel Worthy
31. Mark Barron
48. Brandon Jenkins (I think he said he's staying at school)
63. Dwight Jones
94. Brian Quick
126. Ryan Steed

Pretty awful. I don't really know why I even posted it. These mockers don't really address needs, and have no clue about Belichick's specific requirements.

Yep. Of course, none of us have any clue about his specific requirements either, but that doesn't stop us from guessing. :-)

I would be interested in both Cox and Upshaw, if NE could somehow pull that off. But we can be pretty sure that BB will use one of those 1st rounders to trade out, add an additional 2nd or 3rd round pick, and add another first rounder for 2013, whereupon he will do the same thing again.

[pappymojo]

It must be really hard to even guess at what BB will do.

National Football Post Mock 1.0

http://www.nationalf...rafts-7332.html

29. New England Patriots: Clemson DT Brandon Thompson
Thompson is a potential three down lineman at the next level who can play both the nose and three technique inside for the Patriots in their 43 front.

31. New England Patriots: Wisconsin OL Peter Konz
Konz is the type of safe, NFL ready type first round pick the Patriots love. He’s got the ability to play both center and guard at the next level and gives New England some options inside.

Drafttek CMD #7

28. Jared Crick Nebraska DE
Jared Crick spent his first two years in the shadow of mammoth defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh. However, as a junior, he thrived in the friendly confines of Memorial Stadium, racking up 9.5 sacks on the year (following 9.0 as a soph). His senior year was a bit muted as an injured pectoral muscle cut his campaign short. The Patriots have shown a willingness in the past to take risks on injured players such as Ras-I Dowling and Rob Gronkowski. Crick is both nice value and fills a need, and he would be a welcome addition to the depleted Patriots' defensive line. With a transition back to the 3-4 impending, he would provide a welcome bit of youth and pass rushing burst to the group, letting natural two-gapping linemen Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick rotate at the other positions. - Ethan Hammerman, Patriots Analyst

31. Peter Konz Wisconsin OC
Peter Konz has been a crucial part behind the #8 rushing offense in the country. He has been a key to Montee Ball's Heisman campaign, helping him score 32 touchdowns and gain 1,759 yards on the ground. Konz is capable at pulling and captains the phenomenal Wisconsin line. He may be as good a center prospect in the draft since Nick Mangold. The Patriots have had injury troubles at the center position all year long, and even though Ryan Wendell, Dan Connolly and Nick McDonald have been workmanlike (and perhaps better) in trying to replace the weak, injury-prone Dan Koppen, Konz figues to provide an instant boost at the position. Koppen gave up 6.5 sacks in his last year of work and doesn't have the size to consistently battle top-tier nose tackles. Konz is a potential ten year starter on the offensive line, and would be a great fit for the Patriots. He will help the Patriots' running game churn along at its 4 yards per carry pace and would also keep Tom Brady off his backside.

48. Dwight Jones North Carolina WR
Dwight Jones is a physical specimen who is a bit raw, but does have experience in a pro-style offense from his time at North Carolina. Jones played really well against top competition as a junior, burning the likes of Greg Reid and Chase Minnifield for 431 yards and three touchdowns in games against them. As a senior he tended to accumulate production against weaker competition, but improved on his cumulative numbers, racking up 1196 yards and 12 touchdowns. The Patriots have good production out of Wes Welker, but the rest of their wide receiver corps is lacking. Deion Branch only has 550 yards on the year, while Chad Ochocinco has been a massive disappointment. Jones injects some youth into the group and could be a nice asset down the road. - Ethan Hammerman, Patriots Analyst

63. Jayron Hosley Virgnia Tech CB
Drafttek's sim originally had Coryell Judie in this spot for the Patriots, but when Mississippi State's Johnthan Banks opted against the NFL on Tuesday, Judie moved up leaving the Pats with the next best CB. Jayron Hosley showed great ballhawk skills in Tuesday night's Sugar Bowl - intercepting 2 passes. Unfortunately 1 was negated by a questionable pass interference call, and the other was overturned on review. He was instrumental in limiting Michigan to 10 completed passes with excellent cover skills. The Patriots are constantly looking for people for their defensive backfield, and Hosley has the athleticism and capability to be a key piece. Hosley's position in Foxboro could be decided later: from the outset, he would offer nice burst on special teams and another body for the defensive unit that ranked 31st in terms of yards allowed (411.1 ypg) in the NFL. Hosley could be the playmaker that the Patriots need in the back four. - Ethan Hammerman, Patriots Analyst

[bowiac]

I do think there's a very good chance we might see Konz or someone similar drafted early, as frustrating as that might seem (as opposed to a defensive player). I know not everyone likes Pro Football Focus, but their ratings have Connolly as being quite mediocre, and Koppen is a free agent after this year. Unless people think Cannon can move to center? (Unlikely given his physique I would think).

I'm gonna guess we take another lineman in the first round, and then another big physical CB in the second.

[phragle]

Yep. Of course, none of us have any clue about his specific requirements either, but that doesn't stop us from guessing. :-)

I would be interested in both Cox and Upshaw, if NE could somehow pull that off. But we can be pretty sure that BB will use one of those 1st rounders to trade out, add an additional 2nd or 3rd round pick, and add another first rounder for 2013, whereupon he will do the same thing again.

That's actually the opposite of what I meant. He has some unpredictability to him from the outside, but there are some things we know he likes and requires in a player. Upshaw is a perfect example of a player that wouldn't fit. He is generously listed as 6'2", thats not even close to the length Bill requires at OLB. He'd be a cool player at ILB or the weak side LB, but I'd hate to use a first on any player of those positions. Hightower on the other hand would be perfect in the first round. We'd probably have to move up to get him, at least in front of the Steelers. He will be in high demand.

I do think there's a very good chance we might see Konz or someone similar drafted early, as frustrating as that might seem (as opposed to a defensive player). I know not everyone likes Pro Football Focus, but their ratings have Connolly as being quite mediocre, and Koppen is a free agent after this year. Unless people think Cannon can move to center? (Unlikely given his physique I would think).

I'm gonna guess we take another lineman in the first round, and then another big physical CB in the second.

It would be far from the worst thing that could happen. It's a position of need, and he's a great player. That said I'd rather have Ben Jones in the second or Michael Brewster in the third or fourth. Scarnecchia would make a beast out of any of those three.

Edited by phragle, 11 January 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[phragle]

Robert Lester to stay at Alabama per Joe Schad

[Shelterdog]

I do think there's a very good chance we might see Konz or someone similar drafted early, as frustrating as that might seem (as opposed to a defensive player). I know not everyone likes Pro Football Focus, but their ratings have Connolly as being quite mediocre, and Koppen is a free agent after this year. Unless people think Cannon can move to center? (Unlikely given his physique I would think).

I'm gonna guess we take another lineman in the first round, and then another big physical CB in the second.

Apparently they'd been working Cannon out at RG a lot and he's a good fit there after Waters leaves if Vollmer/Solder are your long-term tackles. They seem to like their centers relativley small and quick so I'd assume that's not where Cannon ends up.

You probably want another interior lineman to supplement Connolly/Wendell/Ohrnberger/Waters/a possibly re-signed Koppen but I'm not sure it's enough of a need to use a high pick, especially when you can get a David Molk type much later in the draft.

WR and every position other than ILB and NT are more obvious needs.

[soxfan121]

Sure, but every other team in the league will also like top ten picks more, so it'll be more expensive in terms of picks to move up. It's gone from "virtually impossible" to "5% chance".

They also have moved up a lot over time (Chad Jackson, Ty Warren, Dan Graham) but that's a different discussion.

I think that the most shocking moment for any one individual during the first day of the NFL offseason will be STL's general manager getting a call from Belichick. "What would be the cost to move to #2 overall right now? Not interested in talking on draft day...what do you want for #2 right now?"

Suppose STL replies "both your #1s this year and a #1 next year" - do you pull the trigger?

I think Belichick would pay that price for the opportunity to move down into the teens for "his guy", picking up extra late round picks in the process. Start draft day at #2 overall. Trade that & 2013 4th rounder to Washington for #6 overall, #38 overall and a 2012 5th rounder, 2013 4th rounder, and a 2013 6th rounder. Trade #6 & own 3rd round to DAL for #14 overall, #78 overall, a 2012 4th rounder, and a 2013 5th rounder. Trade your own 2012 3rd rounder to Team X for a 2013 2nd rounder. Trade your own 2nd round pick to Team Y to for a 2013 first round pick. Trade own 4th rounder to Team Z for 6th & 7th round picks in 2012. Make Kiper's head explode.

End up with:
#14 overall
#38 overall
Raiders' 2nd round
#78 overall
Dallas' 4th round
Own 4th round
Redskins 5th round
Team Z's 6th round
Team Z's 7th round

Team Y's 2013 1st round
Team X's 2013 2nd round
Own 2013 2nd round
Own 2013 3rd round
Washington's 4th round
Dallas' 2013 5th round
Washington's 2013 6th round
Own 7th round

That's restocking the pantry: trading "up" to get a preferred 1st round talent, two 2's and two 4's, plus a high 3 and some depth-round choices in 2012, and reloading the assets for next year, getting an extra 2nd round pick to keep the "two firsts" strategy around going into 2014, along with filling some round-holes.

Unless he can figure out someway to get a Ventrone into this transaction, it would be Belichick's wet dream draft. Controlling the ability to target his #1 guy and then move down, slowly, picking up picks to move back 2 spots here, 3 spots there...he's be in heaven.

[ivanvamp]

That's actually the opposite of what I meant. He has some unpredictability to him from the outside, but there are some things we know he likes and requires in a player. Upshaw is a perfect example of a player that wouldn't fit. He is generously listed as 6'2", thats not even close to the length Bill requires at OLB.

Ninkovich is 6'2" tall, according to his espn page. And when they're in the 4-3, Mayo plays the WIL, and he's just 6'1". If Upshaw is that good, one inch in height isn't enough (I can't imagine) to rule him out, especially when they have other OLB that are that size.

[Shelterdog]

Ninkovich is 6'2" tall, according to his espn page. And when they're in the 4-3, Mayo plays the WIL, and he's just 6'1". If Upshaw is that good, one inch in height isn't enough (I can't imagine) to rule him out, especially when they have other OLB that are that size.

Upshaw is going to be long gone by the time the Pats are picking; he looks to get picked around 10. While you might not mind Ninkovich being a little short since you get him off of the scrap heap, I don't see the Pats going way way up to draft an imperfect fit. I think it's more likely the draft Jemaine Cunningham 2.0 (Vinny Curry from marshall or somebody like that) then trade way up for an edge rusher.

With the new rookie contract and RG3's presence the cost of moving up to number two would be ridiculous-using the old trade charts it would be something like our two number ones, our two number two, and our 2013 number one. It doesn't seem likely.

[phragle]

Ninkovich is 6'2" tall, according to his espn page. And when they're in the 4-3, Mayo plays the WIL, and he's just 6'1". If Upshaw is that good, one inch in height isn't enough (I can't imagine) to rule him out, especially when they have other OLB that are that size.

Well Nink is actually 6'3" and he is still not quite there. Ideally you're looking at 6'5", but 6'4" works too. Willie was perfect. Upshaw is a great player no doubt, but at a probable 6'1" he's not even close. It's not just height, but arm length or wingspan too. I'm talking about the Sam in the 34. He (Upshaw) just doesn't fit. Especially not because we'd probably have to move up for him.

I'd like to give Anderson a shot at the 34 Sam actually.

[EL Jeffe]

Upshaw can play pretty much anywhere in any system. This guy is Adalius Thomas, if Adalius Thomas wasn't a petulant little snot. He's strong, quick, fast and has a motor.

[phragle]

Upshaw is going to be long gone by the time the Pats are picking; he looks to get picked around 10. While you might not mind Ninkovich being a little short since you get him off of the scrap heap, I don't see the Pats going way way up to draft an imperfect fit.

These are good points.

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One prospect I'm intrigued by is Chandler Jones (DE, Syracuse). He is the younger brother of Ravens DT Arthur Jones and UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Jon Jones. Jon is perhaps the best fighter in the world pound for pound. Chandler is also a freak. Listed at 6'5" 265 with long arms and should run in the 4.7s. Unfortunately there is nothing for footage on him. He is probably raw and lacking technique. If he was technically sound he'd have more available footage and even more sacks. He's probably a second rounder. He declared for the draft yesterday.

[jsinger121]

Morris Claiborne and Russell Shepard entering the draft.

http://espn.go.com/n...-entering-draft