94 replies to this topic

[Greenwell982]

Probably, he seems to be the best possible option to take Green's roster spot which is frightening.

What about Posey?? Didn't he get amnestied? I'd take it.

[Sportsbstn]

Damn, he is very lucky they caught it. If it is an aortic aneurism, for the most part there are no symptoms. Also this is NOT heart surgery, this is Aorta surgery, unless the heart valve is bad as well. Its a big difference when you start playing with the heart. He loses 9 million dollars....but gets to live and play basketball again. I think he will take that

[radsoxfan]

I'm sure this increase in diagnosed cardiac problems in the NBA has something to do with the decision to get standard echocardiograms in the NBA starting in 2006.

NBA cardiac testing

Lamarcus Aldridge's recent problem would have been diagnosed by a standard EKG, so I'm sure that would have been discovered no matter what. But some of these other problems are "incidental" structural abnormalities that probably wouldn't show up on routine testing.

With the low (but obviously tragic) risk of sudden death in athletes, I know at least in New England there has been push to do something similar in all high school athletes. The problem of course, is that you are always going to find way more abnormalities than will end up causing problems. If someones ventricle is too thick, or aorta is too big (like for Green), its not always an easy decision what to do next. Theres always at the chance (and even the likelihood) that if it wasn't discovered, absolutely nothing would happen. But its tough to find a cardiologist to sign off on letting someone play with a potentially fatal structural abnormality, especially if the abnormality is well beyond the limits of normal.

For Green in particular, this probably is a dilation at the root of the aorta, right where the vessel exits the heart. Thats really the only part of the aorta you would see on an echocardiogram anyway. Plus, it is being described as "heart surgery", and an aneurysm in a further downstream part of the aorta wouldn't be described as such.

Hypertension and smoking in general are risk factors for aortic aneurysms, but thats more commonly seen abdominal aortic aneurysms. And thats also usually in older patients, not in a 25 year old. More likely, Green has had this his entire life. There are genetic predispositions for ascending aortic aneurysm, such as Marfans syndrome and Ehrles Danlos syndrome. There are also infectious causes (untreated syphilis strangely enough). But most likely, this is just a structural abnormality he was born with for no particular reason.

The good thing I suppose, is that unlike the structural problem Hank Gathers had (HOCM), this is fixable with surgery. But its obviously a very major operation. Sucks for Green and the Celts. Good luck to him.

[RoDaddy]

Really tough break for Green and the C's. With a half year plus playoffs under his belt, he would've been an important contributor this year. The other fallout is that it will likely increase PP and Ray Ray's playing time. One of the main justifications for the trade last year was to reduce their minutes so they wouldn't wear down, and it would've been a huge advantage of having Green coming into this season. This is a big hit, and unless Ainge comes up with some magical resolution, the C's are unlikely to go deep into the playoffs this year.

Edited by RoDaddy, 17 December 2011 - 02:32 PM.

[Stu Nahan]

Can't imagine there is a comparable replacement. Another C with a heart problem. What are the chances?

[Brickowski]

Well, if a championship this year was dependent on Green, they probably weren't going to win one anyway. He seems like a nice kid (from his tweets) and I wish him a full and speedy recovery and a successful return to the NBA. But he was a role player, not a star.


Let me add that I've read eslewhere that Rony Turiaf recovered from similar surgery and is still playing in the NBA. That should be very encouraging for Green.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 December 2011 - 05:06 PM.

[dolomite133]

Well, if a championship this year was dependent on Green, they probably weren't going to win one anyway. He seems like a nice kid (from his tweets) and I wish him a full and speedy recovery and a successful return to the NBA. But he was a role player, not a star.

To clarify, he was the sixth man. Now that role goes to the perpetually injury-prone Marquis Daniels.

[Brickowski]

To clarify, he was the sixth man. Now that role goes to the perpetually injury-prone Marquis Daniels.

Daniels probably takes his SF minutes, and Bass or Wilcox probably takes his PF minutes. I'm not sure how much Green would offer, incrementally, over those other options.

[NYCSox]

To clarify, he was the sixth man. Now that role goes to the perpetually injury-prone Marquis Daniels.

Yeah this is a major blow. Not that Green is a great player but the cumultaive effect on the rest of the roster including added minutes to starters and more minutes for lesser players is going to hurt a lot.

[BucketOBalls]

Not that they had any chances this year, but this kills them. Good for Green that they caught it early.


I wonder if this causes Danny to accelerate the rebuilding process?

[radsoxfan]

Posted this in the Green trade thread, but probably belongs here actually.

If anyone wants to read about this stuff in all its glory....

Thoracic Aortic Aneuryms

They discuss treatment of asymptomatic individuals starting on page 1528 (it starts on page 1511, so its not that long....). Of course, these are just general guidelines, not always applicable to every specific case.

Edited by radsoxfan, 17 December 2011 - 08:13 PM.

[Andrew]

Like that would stop people from leaking it.

At least they are talking as if this isn't going to be season-ending.

HIPPA is a big freaking deal in the medical community.

[Cellar-Door]

Like that would stop people from leaking it.

At least they are talking as if this isn't going to be season-ending.

Considering breaking HIPPA comes with large fines and jail time (plus civil liability, and if you are in health care no one will ever hire you again) it is far from surprising.

[RGREELEY33]

An aortic aneurism is what killed John Ritter. The Celts medical staff just saved Jeff Green's life most likely. They are almost always asymptomatic, and almost always lethal if they burst. A friend of the family who was a 30-something year old cop had one a few years ago, and miraculously survived only because it happened in the ER while he was visiting his sick daughter in the hospital and the ER doc cracked him open right there. This was the story: http://www.lineofdut...-cop-baby-dghtr

[RedOctober3829]

I was on the train headed to MSG today and happened to sit next to a scout for the Lakers. We ended up talking hoops the whole time and he told me this was coming out today about Green. Terrible thing.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Not that they had any chances this year, but this kills them. Good for Green that they caught it early.


I wonder if this causes Danny to accelerate the rebuilding process?

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Ray go for someone young with potential, or a 7-15 #1 pick

[knucklecup]

Keith Bogans is absolutely putrid player. Please, do not sign him.

[radsoxfan]

Keith Bogans is absolutely putrid player. Please, do not sign him.

Seconded. He is beyond horrible. Thibs' obsession with starting him last season was bizarre.... although he seems to have come to his senses by cutting him this season.

Edited by radsoxfan, 18 December 2011 - 12:26 PM.

[Brickowski]

Bogans' one claim to fame was punching out Joe Forte in the locker room at DeMatha. His career has gone downhill since then.

[mahky bellhorn]

Keith Bogans is absolutely putrid player. Please, do not sign him.

Scary thing is that Posey's probably worse.

[knucklecup]

Posey can at least hit a wide open shot. Bogans cant.

[knucklecup]

Seconded. He is beyond horrible. Thibs' obsession with starting him last season was bizarre.... although he seems to have come to his senses by cutting him this season.

It was terribly bizarre. He had no business even playing for that team and was a main reason why I didnt believe in them and ultimately made money on their demise.

[HomeRunBaker]

Posey can at least hit a wide open shot. Bogans cant.

Last season TS%
Posey 48.5%
Bogans 55.9% (57.9% in playoffs)

Geez, i get that you guys hate Bogans but he only played 17 mpg in splitting the wing defender job with Ronnie Brewer while being a weak-side spot up shooter and hitting 38% of his three's. Bogans offensive numbers were horrid however his Usage was extremely low. I'm not a big fan but i don't think he hurt the team nearly as much as you guys are thinking and comments like Bogans can't hit an open shot only confirms the bias.

Edited by HomeRunBaker, 19 December 2011 - 12:12 AM.

[mahky bellhorn]

Yeah, if anything the opposite is true. Last year Bogans hit his wide open shots and Posey didn't.

[Statman]

This is strange. The Celtics pulled Green's qualifying offer which means that Green is a UFA after this season.

I don't know why they would do this seeing as the contract became null and void when Green failed his physical.

Why not keep the offer on the table to keep Green as a RFA?

That's because the Boston Celtics, in a move that was not made public, withdrew Green's qualifying offer in mid-December, right around the time he failed his physical and had his one-year, $9 million contract voided. The move means Green is now an unrestricted free agent. Had the offer not been withdrawn, and the Celtics were under no obligation whatsoever to do so, Green would have been a restricted free agent, with the Celtics able to match any offer he might get from another team.

http://espn.go.com/b...f-green-now-ufa

[SoxScout]

Is there an answer about this? Did they do it out of the goodness of their hearts? It makes no sense at all.

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Because he would then accept the qualifying offer and the team would have to pay him this year, he would take up a roster spot, and he'd still be a UFA next year.

[dolomite133]

This is strange. The Celtics pulled Green's qualifying offer which means that Green is a UFA after this season.

I don't know why they would do this seeing as the contract became null and void when Green failed his physical.

Why not keep the offer on the table to keep Green as a RFA?



http://espn.go.com/b...f-green-now-ufa

Shot in the dark: They don't want to sign him.

[Koufax]

Not to belabor the obvious, but this means we got absolutely nothing for Perkins.

[dolomite133]

Not to belabor the obvious, but this means we got absolutely nothing for Perkins.

You are right. But can we agree that you did, in fact, knowingly belabor the obvious.

Edited by dolomite133, 10 January 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[radsoxfan]

Not to belabor the obvious, but this means we got absolutely nothing for Perkins.

Clippers 1st round pick. Not a great haul but we weren't re-signing Perkins so not a terrible outcome all things considered.

[smastroyin]

Technically they also got a half-ish season and playoffs, which could have been valuable if Shaq had managed to get healthy.

I still hate the trade, but I don't think other than bemoaning the fates, Green's condition should not enter the calculus, unless there is reason to suspect the C's should have found the problem in his pre-trade physical, which seems like a pretty big stretch.

[Koufax]

So not only did I belabor the obvious, but I was wrong. I guess we do have something to root for this season -- another Clippers failure.

[BigSoxFan]

So not only did I belabor the obvious, but I was wrong. I guess we do have something to root for this season -- another Clippers failure.

There are so many bad teams out there this year (Wash, NJ, GS, New Orleans, Det, Hou, Mil, Cha, Sac, Minn, Tor - that's 11) that there is very, very little chance that the Clippers pick in the Top 10. Like maybe 0.01%. So we're probably looking at a pic in the 20-25 range in a pretty deep draft. Not a great haul but every time I watch Perkins, I miss him even less.

[nighthob]

There are so many bad teams out there this year (Wash, NJ, GS, New Orleans, Det, Hou, Mil, Cha, Sac, Minn, Tor - that's 11) that there is very, very little chance that the Clippers pick in the Top 10. Like maybe 0.01%. So we're probably looking at a pic in the 20-25 range in a pretty deep draft. Not a great haul but every time I watch Perkins, I miss him even less.

If the pick is in the top ten Boston wouldn't get it at all. What we're rooting for is the Clips to finish 7th-9th in the west.

[BigSoxFan]

If the pick is in the top ten Boston wouldn't get it at all. What we're rooting for is the Clips to finish 7th-9th in the west.

That's why I was inferring that we at least will get the Clippers' pick this year as comp for Perkins. Barring an injury to CP3 or Griffin, it'll probably be in the 20-25 range.

[EddieYost]

I wouldn't give that pick back now for Perkins and his contract.

[Koufax]

That's why I was inferring that we at least will get the Clippers' pick this year as comp for Perkins. Barring an injury to CP3 or Griffin, it'll probably be in the 20-25 range.

So I should be rooting for one, but not both, of them to get injured. Do I have that right? Should be a reasonable goal. Too bat they're both young. Maybe one of them can get into a gunfight, preferably in the locker room.

[nighthob]

So I should be rooting for one, but not both, of them to get injured. Do I have that right? Should be a reasonable goal. Too bat they're both young. Maybe one of them can get into a gunfight, preferably in the locker room.

Well, Griffin's already had one microfracture procedure, so we can always hope for the best.

[radsoxfan]

Well, Griffin's already had one microfracture procedure, so we can always hope for the best.

Not aware of any micro fracture surgery for Griffin. He had surgery for a patella fracture which wiped out his rookie year. I think I saw something about a torn meniscus in college as well, but as far as I know, no micro fracture surgery.

[HomeRunBaker]

Not to belabor the obvious, but this means we got absolutely nothing for Perkins.

It means we got to avoid paying Perkins that godawful contract for an underperformer. Have you seen him play injured last spring or healthy this winter? Not a whole lot of difference between these two players.

[radsoxfan]

It means we got to avoid paying Perkins that godawful contract for an underperformer. Have you seen him play injured last spring or healthy this winter? Not a whole lot of difference between these two players.

Yeah. Forget the pick, I wouldn't take Perkins and his contract back for free. And thats even with this teams problems at center. He is not any good, especially after the knee injuries.

[Jed Zeppelin]

To be fair to Perkins, when he was here he was really tall and really good at getting to play next to an all-time great defensive player.

[smastroyin]

He was pretty good next to Al Jefferson too, but pithy and sarcastic does play well to the crowd and is good at obfuscating the point.

I know the guy was frustrating to watch with the ball and with this "who me?" every time there was a whistle. But he could set really good screens, he knew his spot and defensive rotations and played it, and Garnett and the wings got to be a lot more aggressive on guys because Perk was in the middle to pick them up if they got beat.

[Jed Zeppelin]

If he was good next to Al Jefferson, I don't remember it; a lot of that probably owes to how poor that team was and my attempts to block it from memory. I remember some concerns about the two of them playing together before Al extended his range and because D was easier for Al as a center. Perk could never stay on the floor consistently enough to see what he could do at that time in his career, which wasn't all that much from what I recall of his raw early years.

Without KG, his numbers wouldn't be any lower (not a numbers guy obviously, his traditional stats are very underwhelming) but I doubt he would be known as the defensive force he gets credit for being. He's not athletic or versatile in any way and there are only a handful of centers left in the league against whom his strength comes in particularly handy. Even when he does face one, his offense prevents him from being on the floor for much longer than half the game anyway.

I think his relationship with the Celtics D worked the other way around entirely. He got to hang in the middle with simpler responsibilities because he's a center and because Garnett was such a freak. He defended Dwight Howard very well. The other things he did well are things that I believe most starting-caliber centers could have done within that defense if they put in the effort, while anybody could have matched his offense. 38 year old PJ Brown came in for some minutes at center and is now fondly remembered as a hero. That's all I'm saying. I love the role Perk played on a championship team but he became a bit overrated because of that. Hell, he barely played in the 4th quarter throughout the '08 series. He is (or was, not sure how the knee's holding up) a nice piece for an established team D that needs a solid big man; I just don't see anything special about him.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 10 January 2012 - 02:15 AM.