1222 replies to this topic

[nighthob]

If they could transition out of the Pierce/Allen/Garnett group into a young, athletic group - even if the skill level isn't the same - I think Rondo could do well with that.

A flashy 42-40 team might be all right by you, but really I'd rather watch a good team than a flashy one.

Let's pretend Boston winds up picking 17 and 22. Is it worth it moving up if possible into the 10-13 range and for who?

First off even if Boston captures the eight seed in the East there's a zero percent chance that they'll do it with a better record than any western playoff team. So their worst case scenario is that their top pick is #15. Given the way that Boston's playing and the way's Detroit's playing I give even money that Boston ends up picking in the top ten without doing anything. Boston's schedule is about to get really tough, and I sincerely doubt they can maintain this .500 pace without trading the greatest point guard in NBA history™.

[Brickowski]

The Celtics will very likely be in the lottery by the end of this week after losing to Dallas and Oklahoma City. Then they come home for a bit, but then beginning on March 11 they have a nine game killer raod trip against mostly good teams with three back-to-backs. Finally on April 5 they begin a stretch of 7 of 9 on the road, with two back-to-backs and one stretch of three in a row.

IMHO the lottery is a pretty good bet, with or without Rondo. Even the eighth seed would be a minor miracle.

[smastroyin]

That they have looked so bad with Rondo back, and that Rondo is a big reason they have looked so bad bodes really poorly for both their chances this year and the chances of rebuilding. I hope he at least leaves the attitude behind.

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Rondo, Pierce and JO to Utah for Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, CJ Miles, Devin Harris, GS 2012 1st round pick, and $10M trade exception

Utah gets a long-term solution at PG and a go-to half court scorer in Pierce, while adding a veteran C. They clear up their front court by dealing Jefferson and his contract and get rid of Harris, who's been pretty bad in Utah.
I don't expect Big Al or Harris to be part of the long-term rebuilding process, but they would become $23M in expiring contracts for Danny to work with in the offseason and/or before next years trade deadline. Favors is the big man to build around, while the GS 2012 1st gets us into the 8-10 range of this year's draft (and Utah can keep their own pick so they'll still have a 1st next year) and the $10M trade exception is another valuable piece for DA to use in rebuilding the team. Deal also doesn't have to include Harris to work, but I was trying to be realistic. I'd love to be able to do the deal without him.

Then trade Ray Allen, Keyon Dooling and Chris Wilcox to CHI for Omer Asik, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, John Lucas and CHA 2012 1st round pick (which is protected as follows: Top 14 in '12, top 12 in '13, top 10 in '14 top 8 in '15 and unprotected in '16).

Chicago gets a perfect fit at SG, a big man to help replace Asik's production off the bench and another veteran G available off the bench. All of these contracts expire at the end of the season, so there are no long-term commitments they need to be concerned with.

For us, the value in the deal revolves around Asik and the draft pick. I'd look to move Korver and/or Brewer to a 3rd team (could send either to a team with cap space like Indy for a 2nd round pick just to get one off the books if we wanted to) or keep them around and add them to the list of expiring contracts that Danny can use to improve the team with. Asik will be a RFA and I've always been impressed with his play. He's a 25 yr old 7 footer who defends and rebounds the ball well. The C's should be able to resign him to a reasonable contract. The Charlotte 1st round pick likely wouldn't pay immediate dividends, but would be a pretty valuable chip to have as we continue to rebuild the team. I'd prefer that pick to taking CHI's 1st rounder, which is going to be at the end of the round.

This would leave us with 3 first round picks in 2012 (GS, BOS, LAC), with the 2012 CHA pick rolling over at least 1-2 more years. The GS and BOS picks should be in the 8-12 range. We would also add $32M in expiring contracts in Jefferson, Harris, Brewer and Korver. And DA would also have the $10M trade exception (Dallas used a similar exception along with their late first rounder in 2012 to trade for Lamar Odom this season).

In the draft, I'd look to add:

GS (#8): Bradley Beal, SG Florida
BOS (12): Patrick Young PF/C Florida or Meyers Leonard C Illinois (DA could also try to package #8+12 to move up to target someone he really wants in the 4/5 range)
LAC (26): Doron Lamb SG/ Marquis Teague PG Kentucky/Kendall Marshall PG UNC (back court help)

That would leave us with something like:


Harris/Bradley/Teague
Beal/Brewer/FA
Green/Korver/FA
Jefferson/Favors/JJJ
Asik/Young or Leonard/FA

If you can move Harris' contract in the offseason, you're looking at a roster of $41.5M plus the rookie contracts (generously $5M) for a total of about $46.5M for 11 players). If the salary cap goes to $60M, that would leave us $13.5M under the cap. Move another contract or two (like Korver or Brewer) and you've got room for a max contract for a guy like Deron Williams.

I just spent way too much time doing this, but what do you guys think? I don't see Howard being a realistic target and I don't think KG can bring us anything back via trade (so my moves took this into account).

[Kutcher Era Youth]

I don't think Utah makes that trade. It leaves them with Rondo, Pierce, Kanter, Milsap, Hayward, and no lotto pick. They're much better off keeping their team now and keeping the pick. I think a more compatible deal would be Rondo for Harris and the pick but not until after the lottery has determined they actually get to keep it this year.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I don't Chicago makes that trade, either. Asik and a first round pick is probably more than they're willing to give up in a deal in which they don't rid themselves of Hamilton.

[nighthob]

I don't think Utah makes that trade. It leaves them with Rondo, Pierce, Kanter, Milsap, Hayward, and no lotto pick. They're much better off keeping their team now and keeping the pick. I think a more compatible deal would be Rondo for Harris and the pick but not until after the lottery has determined they actually get to keep it this year.

A low lottery pick, a mid first rounder and flotsam is probably a fair price for an upgrade at the one that pushes them into the western conference playoffs. They have some young guys that need a taste of winning and postseason basketball if they're going to go forward.

[mcpickl]

Agree with both posts above, Utah/Chicago don't make those deals. Boston fans aren't the only ones who know this is a good upcoming draft, every GM im the league knows too. No one is giving up a lottery pick in this draft.

Also, you can't trade a trade exception.

[nighthob]

Utah can take Rondo using a $10 million trade exception because the salaries match. But I doubt they'd do that. I'm pretty sure they'd insist on dumping Harris in the deal. If they were using a TPE to take Rondo then they'd insist on paying less (because they'd need the other pick to unload Harris). And the Golden State #1 is guaranteed non-high lottery as it's top 7 protected and if they keep shitting the bed then Utah gets two #2s in the deal. So it's an 8-12 pick and an 18-20 pick for Rondo. Given that there are no point guards available this draft, it's not really that much to pay for the upgrade.

[mcpickl]

Utah can take Rondo using a $10 million trade exception because the salaries match. But I doubt they'd do that. I'm pretty sure they'd insist on dumping Harris in the deal. If they were using a TPE to take Rondo then they'd insist on paying less (because they'd need the other pick to unload Harris). And the Golden State #1 is guaranteed non-high lottery as it's top 7 protected and if they keep shitting the bed then Utah gets two #2s in the deal. So it's an 8-12 pick and an 18-20 pick for Rondo. Given that there are no point guards available this draft, it's not really that much to pay for the upgrade.

Don't know where you're getting the second pick from here. The trade above only mentions the GS pick. Utah has already traded their 2012 pick to MIN with lottery protection.

Edited by mcpickl, 20 February 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Three10toLeft]

Agree with both posts above, Utah/Chicago don't make those deals. Boston fans aren't the only ones who know this is a good upcoming draft, every GM im the league knows too. No one is giving up a lottery pick in this draft.

Also, you can't trade a trade exception.

Wasn't Odom dealt straight up to the Mavericks for a trade exception?

[Brickowski]

That's not how trade exceptions work. Teams have one year to complete a "nonsimultaneous" trade. In a nonsimultaneous trade, a team can take back 100% (plus $100K) of the salary going out (not 125%-- or 150% for non taxpaying teams under the new rules-- as would have been the case in a "simultaneous" trade). So, if I trade a $10M player to a team under the cap in exchange for a $5M player, I have a year to "complete" the trade by adding another $5M in salary.

So Odom simply became the last piece in the trade that originally generated the exception. He wasn't traded "for" the exception.

[Marbleheader]

I see the Early 90's Celtics when I watch this team. I've seen that movie before, it doesn't end well. I really hope Danny goes into dealing mode.

[Brickowski]

I see the Early 90's Celtics when I watch this team. I've seen that movie before, it doesn't end well. I really hope Danny goes into dealing mode.

Yes, after 1993. But at least Sherman Douglas was fun to watch.

[ivanvamp]

Or how about this 3-way - Boston, New Jersey, Orlando:

Boston gives: Rondo, Pierce, highest 2nd round pick
Boston receives: Deron Williams, Brook Lopez

New Jersey gives: Williams, Lopez, 1st round pick
New Jersey receives: Howard, Duhon

Orlando gives: Duhon, Howard
Orlando receives: Rondo, Pierce, NJ's 1st round pick, Boston's highest 2nd round pick

Why Boston? Rebuild around Williams. Lopez gives them a legit big man. Frees them up to move Allen & Garnett elsewhere.
Why NJ? Howard.
Why Orlando? Duhon is fluff. Rondo gives them an all-star point guard to work with. They also get an all-star vet in Pierce, who can keep things stable for a couple more years. They get what should be a top-5 1st round pick in a deep draft from NJ. They turn that pick into a guy like Sullinger, so in the end they give up Howard but get Rondo, Pierce, and Sullinger, plus an additional 2nd round pick.

[bowiac]

I mean, that almost makes sense, except that Williams and Howard will just sign in Dallas after the season, right? The scenario for Howard wanting to go to Jersey was based off Deron staying there. And vice versa?

[BigSoxFan]

Howard won't want to play in NJ without Williams so I can't ever see NJ doing something like this.

[TOleary25]

Why NJ? Howard.

Theres no way Howard stays in NJ without Deron and the Nets know this. The Nets wouldn't benefit in the short or long term in this scenario and would be entirely banking on Deron returning after this year.

[ivanvamp]

Yeah you guys are probably right. I really think that Danny has his work cut out for him to try to rebuild.

[irishtap03]

Yeah you guys are probably right. I really think that Danny has his work cut out for him to try to rebuild.

Here is an interesting deal if all the players I mention don't get dealt before the next draft. What if the C's trade Pierce to NJ for Lopez, a few contracts that NJ needs to shed, and NJ first round pick in 2012.

To me out of all the lottery teams NJ is the one that would entertain trading their pick for this reason. They need something to keep Williams and lure Howard. a young player in the 2012 draft, even if he might turn out to be good, won't work for NJ next year. By getting Pierce it shows Williams and Howard how serious NJ is. a Pierce, Williams, and Howard team would be a very good base to start. Yes Pierce would be older but for NJ they need a 3rd piece so that Williams and Howard want to go to NJ.

I'm not a big Lopez fan but he is a piece that might develop or be used in a later deal. the NJ 2012 pick would be high and a great chip to have. If you fall in love with someone in the top 5 you might even be able to package this pick and Rondo to get that player.

[ivanvamp]

Lopez is someone I'd love for the Celtics to get. He's a pretty skilled big man who has put up nice numbers thus far in his career. Not a big-time rebounder, but career #s of 17.4 ppg, 7.5 rpg, and 1.7 bpg....that's not too shabby. Plus, he's just 23 (will be 24 on Apr 1). There are a lot of worse building blocks to have than him.

[mcpickl]

Wasn't Odom dealt straight up to the Mavericks for a trade exception?

Yes, He was traded to the Mavericks, for which the Lakers recieved a trade exception. The Lakers can't turn around and trade that exception to someone else to use. They can only use it for themselves.

The trade exception came from the league, not the Mavericks.

Edited by mcpickl, 21 February 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[mcpickl]

Here is an interesting deal if all the players I mention don't get dealt before the next draft. What if the C's trade Pierce to NJ for Lopez, a few contracts that NJ needs to shed, and NJ first round pick in 2012.

To me out of all the lottery teams NJ is the one that would entertain trading their pick for this reason. They need something to keep Williams and lure Howard. a young player in the 2012 draft, even if he might turn out to be good, won't work for NJ next year. By getting Pierce it shows Williams and Howard how serious NJ is. a Pierce, Williams, and Howard team would be a very good base to start. Yes Pierce would be older but for NJ they need a 3rd piece so that Williams and Howard want to go to NJ.

I'm not a big Lopez fan but he is a piece that might develop or be used in a later deal. the NJ 2012 pick would be high and a great chip to have. If you fall in love with someone in the top 5 you might even be able to package this pick and Rondo to get that player.

No way NJ gives up Lopez and their #1 with flotsam for Pierce.

That's way too big a gamble with no certainty Deron & Dwight will sign there in the summer.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

Here is an interesting deal if all the players I mention don't get dealt before the next draft. What if the C's trade Pierce to NJ for Lopez, a few contracts that NJ needs to shed, and NJ first round pick in 2012.

To me out of all the lottery teams NJ is the one that would entertain trading their pick for this reason. They need something to keep Williams and lure Howard. a young player in the 2012 draft, even if he might turn out to be good, won't work for NJ next year. By getting Pierce it shows Williams and Howard how serious NJ is. a Pierce, Williams, and Howard team would be a very good base to start. Yes Pierce would be older but for NJ they need a 3rd piece so that Williams and Howard want to go to NJ.

I'm not a big Lopez fan but he is a piece that might develop or be used in a later deal. the NJ 2012 pick would be high and a great chip to have. If you fall in love with someone in the top 5 you might even be able to package this pick and Rondo to get that player.

I think this has been proposed on an earlier page and it seems reasonable from both sides to me. I guess I'd say it would make more sense if NJ landed in the 6-10 range. If they pick in the top 3 you have to think they can trade for a better player than Pierce. But definitely, D12/ Williams/ Pierce makes a lot more sense than D12/ Williams/ Gilchrist.

I've been mulling over a 3-way trade possibility recently, and it might just be far fetched enough to make it in this thread. The deal is basically

Bos out: Ray....In: The best of the picks from LAL/DAL/MEM

Memphis out: Mayo....In: Ray and the lesser two of the three picks mentioned above

LAL out: Their two picks....In O.J Mayo

I figure Memphis gets some outside shooting for a guy they probably weren't going to resign and adds a 1st, so they might go for it.

For LA, two picks in the 20's for Mayo seems fair and I think he'd fit with their current roster. Both Memphis and LAL have to be thinking the West is takeable this year.

Boston gets a pick somewhere between 18- 23 roughly. I'd do it.

[irishtap03]

No way NJ gives up Lopez and their #1 with flotsam for Pierce.

That's way too big a gamble with no certainty Deron & Dwight will sign there in the summer.

In the end they will have to give up Lopez anyway in a salary dump. to fit a Pierce, Deron & Dwight tandem anyways. And NJ has to go all in and make this work. They can not deal with losing Deron and not getting Dwight it would crush their move. You can argue that they could get a better deal for a package like that but I don't think Deron and Howard stay unless there is another player there to draw them in. Too much is riding on that tandem (D&D) with the new arena to not make something like this happen.

Now if they somehow landed a top 3 pick it would slighty change things. But as mentioned by Kutcher something in the 6-9 range does no good to NJ.

[irishtap03]

I think this has been proposed on an earlier page and it seems reasonable from both sides to me. I guess I'd say it would make more sense if NJ landed in the 6-10 range. If they pick in the top 3 you have to think they can trade for a better player than Pierce. But definitely, D12/ Williams/ Pierce makes a lot more sense than D12/ Williams/ Gilchrist.

I've been mulling over a 3-way trade possibility recently, and it might just be far fetched enough to make it in this thread. The deal is basically

Bos out: Ray....In: The best of the picks from LAL/DAL/MEM

Memphis out: Mayo....In: Ray and the lesser two of the three picks mentioned above

LAL out: Their two picks....In O.J Mayo

I figure Memphis gets some outside shooting for a guy they probably weren't going to resign and adds a 1st, so they might go for it.

For LA, two picks in the 20's for Mayo seems fair and I think he'd fit with their current roster. Both Memphis and LAL have to be thinking the West is takeable this year.

Boston gets a pick somewhere between 18- 23 roughly. I'd do it.

This wouldn't be all that bad although I question if LAL would make a deal like this. For some reason I think Kobe would kill OJ in the first week. But your thought is spot on. Boston needs to do whatever it can to max out the best draft pick for Ray Allen. Rondo and Pierce you can deal with in the offseason when their value will be higher and more teams willing to trade.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

I have no clue what the Lakers are thinking of course, but you have to imagine that whatever trade value Gasol had prior to the season has at the very least slightly diminished. My guess is Kupchack figures the best move is to ride the core of Kobe/ Gasol/ Bynum out for this year and the next two and Mayo seemed like a solid piece to me to add to it. Plus, he's supposedly a good defender which may appeal him to Mike Brown. And he went to USC. Now I'm just grasping at straws.

Edit: Just to add on, I feel given the Lakers commitment (I think) to this core for the next couple of years, an established player like Mayo would be preferable to two picks in the 20's.

Edited by Kutcher Era Youth, 21 February 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[nighthob]

Yes, He was traded to the Mavericks, for which the Lakers recieved a trade exception. The Lakers can't turn around and trade that exception to someone else to use. They can only use it for themselves.

The trade exception came from the league, not the Mavericks.

No, the exception is generated by the trade. Someone made reference to the non-simultaneous trade rules above. Read them, know them, love them.

Unless they changed this in the new CBA, Utah can't absorb Rondo outright, because their Okur TPE is about $55k short. But assuming it were the full ten million, they could deal for Rondo without sending salary back using the remaining salary from the Okur trade. Boston in turn would have a year to use the remaining salary in this theoretical scenario to acquire something else. And yes, I'm nitpicking because you were needlessly.

[Brickowski]

Actually when I posted the non-simultaneous trade rules above, I was thinking about how the Mavs could take on Odom's $9M salary without sending salary back to the Lakers. The answer is that Dallas had a $13.1M trade exception from the Tyson Chandler sign-and-trade. You may recall that the Knicks had to amnesty Billups to get far enough under the cap to do that deal. So Dallas "completed" that trade by acquiring Odom, and the Mavs still have roughly $4.2M of that exception left. They must use it by 12/10/2012.

The Odom deal in turn generated an $8.9M trade exception for the Lakers, which they must use before December 11, 2012. But the Lakers traded Odom for a first round pick, not a trade exception. The exception arose under the trading rules.

Shamsports.com has a list of outstanding trade exceptions. http://www.shamsport...exceptions.jspI I note in passing that Utah's exception (generated when Okur went to the Nets) is large enough to take on either Rondo or Ray Allen without sending any salary back to Boston.

Edited by Brickowski, 22 February 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[mcpickl]

No, the exception is generated by the trade. Someone made reference to the non-simultaneous trade rules above. Read them, know them, love them.

Unless they changed this in the new CBA, Utah can't absorb Rondo outright, because their Okur TPE is about $55k short. But assuming it were the full ten million, they could deal for Rondo without sending salary back using the remaining salary from the Okur trade. Boston in turn would have a year to use the remaining salary in this theoretical scenario to acquire something else. And yes, I'm nitpicking because you were needlessly.

That's what I said. So I'm cool on the rules, thanks for the advice though.

No clue what you think I was nitpicking about.

Edited by mcpickl, 22 February 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[mcpickl]

In the end they will have to give up Lopez anyway in a salary dump. to fit a Pierce, Deron & Dwight tandem anyways. And NJ has to go all in and make this work. They can not deal with losing Deron and not getting Dwight it would crush their move. You can argue that they could get a better deal for a package like that but I don't think Deron and Howard stay unless there is another player there to draw them in. Too much is riding on that tandem (D&D) with the new arena to not make something like this happen.

Now if they somehow landed a top 3 pick it would slighty change things. But as mentioned by Kutcher something in the 6-9 range does no good to NJ.

But I don't think they move Lopez, much less with a #1, for Pierce. If Pierce guaranteed Dwight would go there, absolutely they do it. I don't think Pierce being there makes Dwight/Deron signing there any more likely at all. If come summertime Dwight/Deron tell NJ, hey we'll sign with you but you gotta trade for Pierce too, they trade for Pierce in a second. But they'd never do that beforehand.

[Brickowski]

Based on the salary info available to me (which may be wrong), Utah can, in fact, assimilate Rondo utilizing the Okur exception. Per Shamsports.com, Utah's exception is $10,890,000, and Rondo's salary is $10,045,455. Am I missing something nighthob?

Edited by Brickowski, 22 February 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[cheech13]

Portland is dying for a long-term solution at point guard. Felton+Batum for Rondo works under the salary cap. Both are free agents after the season, but Batum is restricted. He'd be nice building block, but that's probably just a sideways move if you give up Rondo. Maybe you could get them to throw in a first round pick.

[nighthob]

Based on the salary info available to me (which may be wrong), Utah can, in fact, assimilate Rondo utilizing the Okur exception. Per Shamsports.com, Utah's exception is $10,890,000, and Rondo's salary is $10,045,455. Am I missing something nighthob?

That's right, this is the outyear. I was thinking that this was the second to last year of that ridiculous deal. So, then that's the ideal situation, draft picks and nothing else and they have the option of using a TPE to bring in players this summer if they do manage to land Howard.

Edited by nighthob, 22 February 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[nattysez]

I'd argue that the window was open up until last year's playoffs, and only closed when it was apparent that Shaq was not going to be able to come back from his injury then. Had he, I think we would've won a flag last year.

I think that's a fair argument, though I'd argue that any team constructed so that a healthy Shaq at the end of the year was a prerequisite to winning a banner was an ill-constructed team.

I also think that Ainge is a good GM with at least some vision, and will get the C's competetive again not too long after the big 3 are no longer impact players. These are not your Chris Wallace Celtics.

Ainge is not Chris Wallace, that's for sure. You are more optimistic than I that Ainge will be able to extract enough value from KG, Allen and Rondo over the next few weeks to make the Celtics competitive in the near term, but we shall see.

[Brickowski]

Chris Wallace isn't nearly as bad as some folks think. The Gasol trade in fact improved the Grizz, even though folks derided the deal at the time. Also, Wallace begged the Celtics brass to draft Tony Parker in 2001, but Red overruled him. Joe Forte was one very, very expensive favor for Morgan Wooten.

The problem with trading Rondo to Utah is that Utah traded away its 2012 first rounder to MN, so the C's could not get a very useful pick back.

[wutang112878]

Chris Wallace isn't nearly as bad as some folks think. The Gasol trade in fact improved the Grizz, even though folks derided the deal at the time. Also, Wallace begged the Celtics brass to draft Tony Parker in 2001, but Red overruled him. Joe Forte was one very, very expensive favor for Morgan Wooten.

I wish I could find the quote but after Wallace started blaming that on Red and it was clear Forte was a bust Red did say something to the effect of 'well if you didnt want him you didnt have to'. Furthermore, as evidence that Wallace is indeed that bad, take a closer look at the other 2 picks that year. He absolutely wasted the 11th pick on Kedrick Brown, and I know we can always get into a 'so and so was available' but just look at the 5 of the guys drafted from 12 to 20: Vladimir Radmanovic, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph and Brendan Haywood, essentially looking at 11 to 20 it was a 50/50 finding a quality player and he swung and missed.

As for Joe Johnson, great pick, bad trade. After the season was over when we made that run with that horribly flawed team, and Wallace was asked about trading Johnson he said something to the effect of 'was there another team that needed to make a run more than we did'. Ultimately he got a few seasons of Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers, both of whom had played their best basketball, for Johnson who hadnt peaked yet. That was a bad move that set the franchise back a few years, especially considering the owner wouldnt even give him the money to resign Rodgers so it was basically just a rental situation.

Wallace has been much better in Memphis, but he still needs to have a lot more success in my opinion before he is a net positive GM considering the damage that he did while running the Celtics, because that Vin Baker move literally set the franchise back 3-4 years.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

I thought the Kenny Anderson for Baker swap was pushed for by the prior ownership to make the team appear more profitable before they sold it.

Utah keeps their own pick if they don't make the playoffs. The Warrior pick is top 7 protected, so the Jazz could have 2 late lotto picks, 1, or none.

Edited by Kutcher Era Youth, 23 February 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[wutang112878]

I thought the Kenny Anderson for Baker swap was pushed for by the prior ownership to make the team appear more profitable before they sold it.

That story sounds great until we get into the details. I forget if Kenny was in the last or 2nd to last year of his deal, but it was close to being over. Meanwhile, Vinny had multiple years left on his deal, so while the Celts took back slightly less salary in the trade, if the goal of the deal was to cut salary there were many, many other less risky options that Wallace could have pursued to do so. IIRC Baker had something like 4 yrs and $56M left on his deal when we traded for him, and he was basically toast, and oh yeah had that drinking problem.

So, sure Wallace can float that story, and Gavin didnt care if he did because he was gone by then anyway, but the logic behind it really doesnt make much sense, because if the directive to Wallace was 'cut salary, and make us look more profitable' trading for Vin Baker with that deal was simply not the way to do it. Furthermore, if I am buying a franchise and had a choice between Kenny Andersons deal or Bakers deal, I am taking Anderson without any hesitation, I could care less if the Baker move made the franchise $1-2M more profitable over the next 2 years.

[fairlee76]

All this talk about Chris Wallace is making me feel sick to my stomach and grateful that, so far, Danny seems to be a competent GM. I sincerely hope that the days of management trotting out washed-up guys like Xavier McDaniel, Dino Radja, Vin Baker, and Dominique Wilkins (and trying to convince us that they were worth paying money to see) are over. For some reason, I am confident that Danny has a coherent plan for how to rebuild the Celtics. I did not get that sense during the Pitino and Wallace years. They seemed to take more of a "this is so stupid it just might work" approach.

[dolomite133]

All this talk about Chris Wallace is making me feel sick to my stomach and grateful that, so far, Danny seems to be a competent GM. I sincerely hope that the days of management trotting out washed-up guys like Xavier McDaniel, Dino Radja, Vin Baker, and Dominique Wilkins (and trying to convince us that they were worth paying money to see) are over. For some reason, I am confident that Danny has a coherent plan for how to rebuild the Celtics. I did not get that sense during the Pitino and Wallace years. They seemed to take more of a "this is so stupid it just might work" approach.

You need to check your facts on Dino Radja.

[Jed Zeppelin]

All this talk about Chris Wallace is making me feel sick to my stomach and grateful that, so far, Danny seems to be a competent GM. I sincerely hope that the days of management trotting out washed-up guys like Xavier McDaniel, Dino Radja, Vin Baker, and Dominique Wilkins (and trying to convince us that they were worth paying money to see) are over. For some reason, I am confident that Danny has a coherent plan for how to rebuild the Celtics. I did not get that sense during the Pitino and Wallace years. They seemed to take more of a "this is so stupid it just might work" approach.

I've felt this way since Doc signed his extension. It seemed like he was really damn close to leaving and it was abundantly clear that this team's best days were in the rear view, but he signed for five years. That gives me hope that Ainge showed Doc plans A through Z and gave the latter some good reasons to stay.

[dolomite133]

Far fetched idea of the day: Pierce and Rondo for Horford, Josh Smith and McGrady. Maybe swap first round draft picks? Hawks improve¹ this year in time for stretch run/postseason. Celtics can wait for Horford to recover from injury and come away with the best player in the deal in Smith. Why would the Hawks do it? Why not? It's not like their current roster will do anything against Miami or other eastern powers for the next few years. Long term they get salary cap relief by ditching Horford's contract.

1 -- My thinking is, for the remainder of this season, Pierce and Rondo are greater than Smith and McGrady.

[fairlee76]

You need to check your facts on Dino Radja.

The big stat with Dino Radja is games played: 80, 65, 53, 25. The guy could play when healthy, but it is my understanding that his best basketball was played in Europe.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Far fetched idea of the day: Pierce and Rondo for Horford, Josh Smith and McGrady. Maybe swap first round draft picks? Hawks improve¹ this year in time for stretch run/postseason. Celtics can wait for Horford to recover from injury and come away with the best player in the deal in Smith. Why would the Hawks do it? Why not? It's not like their current roster will do anything against Miami or other eastern powers for the next few years. Long term they get salary cap relief by ditching Horford's contract.

1 -- My thinking is, for the remainder of this season, Pierce and Rondo are greater than Smith and McGrady.

I think you mean Joe Johnson and not Horford right?

[BucketOBalls]

In the realm of the insane,

Rondo for JR Smith and Jeremy Lin works*. Maybe get a pick also.

The idea for the Knicks would that Rondo would allow them to get more out of Amare and Carmelo and Rondo running with that team would be pretty impressive.

For the Celtics,they get major cap space and maybe a potential building block. I wouldn't do it, as I think that is WAY more confidence in Lin that I would be comfortable with at this point. And it sucks to help the knicks.


*(here)I had to use Landry Fields a proxy bc Lin isn't tradeable till Feb 27, but they have the exact same deal for this year. If they are worried about giving up smith, Rondo+Avery Bradly for Lin, JR Smith and Baron Davis's dead weight also probably works, although I had to use Skywalker as a proxy, which wasn't as good. Using Bill walker for Davis works though. You also could swap some minor players to give a bit more to one side or the other maybe.


That was more of a fun thing than a serious(even for here) suggestion, as I was curious if you could make it work.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

In the realm of the insane,

Rondo for JR Smith and Jeremy Lin works*. Maybe get a pick also.

The idea for the Knicks would that Rondo would allow them to get more out of Amare and Carmelo and Rondo running with that team would be pretty impressive.

For the Celtics,they get major cap space and maybe a potential building block. I wouldn't do it, as I think that is WAY more confidence in Lin that I would be comfortable with at this point. And it sucks to help the knicks.


*(here)I had to use Landry Fields a proxy bc Lin isn't tradeable till Feb 27, but they have the exact same deal for this year. If they are worried about giving up smith, Rondo+Avery Bradly for Lin, JR Smith and Baron Davis's dead weight also probably works, although I had to use Skywalker as a proxy, which wasn't as good. Using Bill walker for Davis works though. You also could swap some minor players to give a bit more to one side or the other maybe.


That was more of a fun thing than a serious(even for here) suggestion, as I was curious if you could make it work.

That's not actually Smith's salary (they got him for the 2.5M exception a couple days ago), so there's no way it can work unless the Knicks trade one of their big 3 or a massive combination of parts like Shumpert, Fields, Walker, Smith etc. to go along with Lin. Don't see it happening.

[LESDL]

NM

Edited by LESDL, 23 February 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[dolomite133]

I think you mean Joe Johnson and not Horford right?

No, I really did mean Horford. (See Hawks contracts here).

[Brickowski]

Whatever the long term plan is (and I doubt if Ainge has a specific plan other than to be opportunistic), JO and Wilcox are hobbling and they need another big body now. They are getting killed on the glass every night.