1222 replies to this topic

[Brickowski]

sorry poor choice of words at the end. You can always cut someone but to use the amnesty clause the player would already need to be on our roster. Jed Zepplin linked to a source for the amnesty clause

Yes, thanks, I stand corrected. But I would still trade Garnett for Lewis to get the pick. Garnett looks cooked.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[nighthob]

Another reason not to trade him at all.

You mean that a reason not to trade him is that the rest of the NBA seems to dislike him? I'm not sure that's actually a good way to go about rebuilding. "Prime Rondo" not playing with three of the all-time top 20 scorers is going to morph into Antoine Walker's Minime very quickly.

With the Big 3 you need to try and get something of value now because after this year 2 of them will walk and the other (Pierce) probably won't be in love with rebuilding.

You're not getting anything of value for Garnett. No contender can afford that contract in trade and you can't send him anywhere else. Their only option, literally, is to amnesty him. Ray will net you filler and a draft pick that you can buy for three million. Pierce is another guy whose worth is filler and a pick you can buy for three million. It would be like 2004-2007 all over again, only instead of building around an all star they'd be building around a roleplayer.

[BucketOBalls]

You're not getting anything of value for Garnett. No contender can afford that contract in trade and you can't send him anywhere else. Their only option, literally, is to amnesty him. Ray will net you filler and a draft pick that you can buy for three million. Pierce is another guy whose worth is filler and a pick you can buy for three million. It would be like 2004-2007 all over again, only instead of building around an all star they'd be building around a roleplayer.

In some ways, Rondo is a good guy to hold on to because his value is linked to other players. If the C's somehow landed Howard and someone else...Rondo becomes a star again. They could hold on to him and still tank for pick, unlike Pierce, who pretty much prevents you from getting a decent draft position when on the team. Of course, the converse of that is that, if your gonna trade him, they need to do it soon before his value declines from being on crappy teams.

[Brickowski]

In some ways, Rondo is a good guy to hold on to because his value is linked to other players. If the C's somehow landed Howard and someone else...Rondo becomes a star again.

Until he demands a trade. Which he probably will as soon as the team gets crappy. IMHO they should trade Rondo first, then the others.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Riles335]

Until he demands a trade. Which he probably will as soon as the team gets crappy. IMHO they should trade Rondo first, then the others.

Why do you believe that Rondo will demand a trade? To me he is the guy who wants to be here through the thick and thin.

[Brickowski]

Why do you believe that Rondo will demand a trade?

My gut.

[Riles335]

My gut.

Hmmm I guess we will see then. To me he is a competitive beast that will stay here for the long run. He is embraced by this city, loves playing for this team and city, and has the chance to possibly go down as the best point guard to ever play for this franchise.

[Brickowski]

Hmmm I guess we will see then. To me he is a competitive beast that will stay here for the long run. He is embraced by this city, loves playing for this team and city, and has the chance to possibly go down as the best point guard to ever play for this franchise.

You must be young. Rondo ain't no Cousy-- or Dennis Johnson or Jo Jo White. Me, I'm old-- old enough to know that just about every big NBA star on a crappy team has at least thought very seriously about demanding a trade. Pierce did when the Celtics were lousy, and so did Garnett when he was in MN. Why should Rondo be any different? He's been one of the annointed, coming up through the AAU/NCAA star system from Oak Hill to Kentucky to the NBA.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[irishtap03]

You're not getting anything of value for Garnett. No contender can afford that contract in trade and you can't send him anywhere else. Their only option, literally, is to amnesty him. Ray will net you filler and a draft pick that you can buy for three million. Pierce is another guy whose worth is filler and a pick you can buy for three million. It would be like 2004-2007 all over again, only instead of building around an all star they'd be building around a roleplayer.

Totally get this. KG is probably the least likely of the Big 3 to be traded due to his contract.The only possible way would be to involve a third team and take a bad contract back to get somethign of value. Ray and Paul however do have great value. The buying of picks isn't as easy as you make it seem, unless you are refering to the Phoenix Suns who would sell their pick every year if they could. If you can land any type of pick in the 2012 draft (in what should be a good draft) then it's worth it. People need to realize that this team is going back to 2004-2007 before things get better. Danny can either do it now or keep putting it off and stretch the rebuilding over 6-8 years. One way or the other this team needs to bottom out. You do not rebuild via free agency, it doesn't work.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

Rondo is better than Dennis Johnson or JoJo White. I understand that things happened before 2006.

[Brickowski]

Rondo is better than Dennis Johnson or JoJo White. I understand that things happened before 2006.

White, maybe, Johnson, no.

[swingin val]

Why isn't Ainge going after players like Speights instead of overpaying for the useless Chris Wilcox?

Chris Wilcox is getting paid the veteran's minimum.

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Chris Wilcox is getting paid the veteran's minimum.

Nope, he's getting the MLE.

[Riles335]

Chris Wilcox is getting paid the veteran's minimum.

Wilcox got the mid level exception from the Celtics.

The reason why Ainge went out and got Wilcox over a guy like Speights is because Wilcox was one of a few guys who was willing to take a one year deal. Ainge didn't want to tie up salary space past this year and not very many guys want to sign a one year deal at three million dollars. Ainge had limited options.

[Brickowski]

Speights wasn't a free agent. Ainge would have had to trade for him. Speights' salary was a litle too large for the trade exception that Ainge used to acquire Dooling, but a three team deal probably could have been worked out, which is exactly what Chris Wallace did.

I used Speights as an example of a young big with upside as opposed to retreads like Wilcox and Dooling. Wilcox is the new age Xavier McDaniel: a stopgap player acquired to delude the fans into thinking the team was doing something other than treading water.

On second thought, that comparison is an insult to McDaniel, who in his prime in Seattle was a very fine player.

[Riles335]

Ainge did go after a guy like Speights...his name is Brandon Bass. Who is a lot better.

[Brickowski]

Bass' first five years in the league were worse than Speights' first four. We'll see who turns out to be better in the long run. Speights is bigger and younger. But really, we were discussing Wilcox, not Bass. At least Bass can score (sometimes). Wilcox can't do shit.

[sibpin]

Their only option, literally, is to amnesty him.

The amnesty deadline for this season has passed. The only Celtics that can be amnestied are Pierce, Rondo, and Bradley, and they cannot be amnestied until after the season.

[Mike in CT]

Ainge did go after a guy like Speights...his name is Brandon Bass. Who is a lot better.

You could still go after Speights. It's about stockpiling assets...

[Riles335]

Bass' first five years in the league were worse than Speights' first four. We'll see who turns out to be better in the long run. Speights is bigger and younger. But really, we were discussing Wilcox, not Bass. At least Bass can score (sometimes). Wilcox can't do shit.

What good does it do the Celtics to acquire a worse player now? None. Speights is hardly a guy you would want to build your franchise around and the age difference between Speights and Bass is only a year and a half.

Also this discussion does include Bass. The reason why Ainge didn't go out and get a guy like Speights was because he traded for a better player in Bass, couldn't afford to trade for Speights when you look at the assets that DA had available to him, and your better off acquiring a point guard (Dooling) and a power forward (Bass) than getting two power forwards (Speights and Bass). Ainge was then left with the MLE exception and due to the Celtics salary structure, the smart move was to offer players one year contracts which for many players, none named Speights who were actually free agents, didn't make much sense for them and rightfully so. For a player like Wilcox it makes sense.

[mcpickl]

@McPickl

I'd take a pick in the 20s for Ray. Better than letting his contract expire. I'd take SOMETHING in return for KG because his contract expires at the end of the season (meaning it won't be a trading chip this summer). I'd make a move at the trading deadline, when we have leverage, rather than wait until the summer, when our only "leverage" would be to act as a third team in a three team deal (because we ain't getting Howard or Love, and the point guard free agents are redundant with Rondo on the team).

I expect Danny is burning the phone lines up, moreso every time we lose a game, and am confident we will make some moves at the deadline. Hopefully it's not another Raef Lafrentz deal.

BTW, why are you so adamantly in favor of waiting? What historical precedent informs your thinking? What teams have been successful because they waited? (I don't want to hear Miami, either, because that was obviously the product of back room, illegal talks between Wade, Bosh and Lebron).

Because there is zero reason to act right now. Whatever Ray is worth right now, he'll be worth at the deadline. Leaving KG out of the discussion because he has no value.

So why hurry to dump him now rather than see what develops?

[Brickowski]

Speights is a player with upside who might prove useful, either as a rotation guy or as a trade chip. He's young, tall and can shoot. Wilcox has no value whatsoever.

Nobody is suggesting that you build a team around Speights.

[mcpickl]

As an aside, I noticed that Marreese Speights had a double double (16-12) for Memphis in the Grizzly's win over the Bulls yesterday (Rose didn't play). The Sixers basically got two second round picks for Speights. Why isn't Ainge going after players like Speights instead of overpaying for the useless Chris Wilcox?

They rebounded a little better last night, but killed themselves with turnovers. The biggest culprits were Pierce and Allen. The Comcast talking heads and shills will try to convince us that this is just a "rough patch" but I've seen enough. This team is going nowhere. And it is going nowhere in an unentertaining way.

It's time for this team to get younger and even lousier. Immediately.

1. Jermaine O'Neal to Sacramento for Jason Thompson (reportedly not in Sacramento's plans-- will not be offered an extension) andTravis Outlaw (currently out with a broken foot). Saves the Kings $13 million in future salary.

2. Ray Allen to Phoenix for Josh Childress and Robin Lopez. Saves the Suns $25 million in future salary commitments.

3. Garnett and $3M in cash to New Orleans for Okafor and Belinelli. Belinelli would have to agree to the trade.

4. Garnett to Washington for Rashard Lewis and the Wizards' unprotected 2012 first round pick. Saves Washington $23M. Frankly I'm suprised that the Wizards did not amnesty Lewis. The Celtics would play Lewis this year then then amnesty him on July 1.

5. Ray Allen to the Nets for Kris Humphries. Humphries would have to agree to the deal.

6. Paul Pierce to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison. Clears Pierce off the books.

7. Rondo to Charlotte for Kemba Walker, Boris Diaw and a first round pick (top 3 protected). Replace Rondo with a young pg who can score, and clear another $9M off the books in 2012.

I'm sure the nay sayers will have objections to every one of these deals. But if you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't waste time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

These trades, besides yes being bad, are so counterproductive. The first 4 options you're taking terrible contracts going on to your cap going forward in order to get overpaid role players. The fifth one your trading an old guy to a non contender, don't know why NJ is interested. Then the last two you're trading your two best players to clear money off the books! When your first 4 options added money. WTF?


And on Speights, Philly got two 2nd round picks, and had to take back no salary to get Speights. The Celtics would have to send a contract back to Philly to fit Speights in. So I'd guess the minimum offer from Boston would be a 1st round pick to match that. You're willing to give up a 1st for Speights? I surely wouldn't do that. Seems like a poor idea for a team rebuilding in a matter of months.

Edited by mcpickl, 17 January 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[radsoxfan]

I'm sure the nay sayers will have objections to every one of these deals. But if you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't waste time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

People will have objections to these deals for a good reason. They are all retarded. This is a thread for far fetched ideas, not blatantly moronic ones.

You want to turn Rondo/Allen/KG/Pierce/cap fodder into....

Jason Thompson, Travis Outlaw, Josh Childress, Robin Lopez, Emeka Okafor, Marco Bellinelli (or Rashard Lewis!!!), Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova, Antawn Jamison. Thats the group you want to go with? Maybe Danny should just send out an email telling GMs around the league we are willing to take everyone else's shitty long term contracts they wish they never signed. I'm sure we will have plenty of takers.

There are a couple of expiring deals in there, but even going forward into 2012-2013 and beyond..... Jason Thompson, Travis Outlaw, Josh Childress, Robin Lopez, Emeka Okafor, and Mbah a Moute as our core? Almost 40M for a bunch of role players (and in some cases not even role players). Is that a joke?

I'll take Rondo/Pierce and our draft picks/cap space. If the team is toast in a month, I'm fine trading Ray and/or KG for expiring deals and picks. Or possibly getting a good package back for Pierce if a contending team thinks they are a SF away from a title (and has some good young players to offer). But there isn't a single guy on your list who belongs anywhere near a rebuilding Celtics team.

Edited by radsoxfan, 17 January 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[Brickowski]

I'm only taking on salary in a deal that returns a young big man with some promise. They need at least two good young big men if they expect to rebuild successfully. Maybe Thompson and/or Lopez aren't the right guys. Would you rather go after knuckleheads like Andray Blatche or Javale McGee?

Take a look at the 2012 free agent crop. Do you have any better ideas as to what to do with the cap space? Let's not salivate over the likes of Dwight Howard or Kevin Love. They're not walking through that door.

[mcpickl]

double post

Edited by mcpickl, 17 January 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[Riles335]

Speights is a player with upside who might prove useful, either as a rotation guy or as a trade chip. He's young, tall and can shoot. Wilcox has no value whatsoever.

Nobody is suggesting that you build a team around Speights.

I still don't understand how this works. Wilcox comes in here on a one year deal. It took Xavier Henry and a first round pick for Memphis to get Speights. Would you be willing to deal Bradley and a first round draft pick for Speights when you have just traded for Bass? I am not saying that Bradley is a ton of value but the fact that you are parting with two first round picks essentially for Speights would be ridiculous in itself and on top of already trading for Bass makes that idiotic.

Your saying that nobody is suggesting that you build a team around Speights but if you deal for Speights you are investing players and money. You are dealing away players and picks, and on top of that you are going to at least match the qualifying offer that Speights is due after this year which would in fact turn into battling other teams on an contract offer that would sure be a multi- year deal. So in fact you are building your team around Speights because you are forced into signing him to a long term deal or you will lose out on a package offer of Bradley and a first round pick.

[mcpickl]

I'm only taking on salary in a deal that returns a young big man with some promise. They need at least two good young big men if they expect to rebuild successfully. Maybe Thompson and/or Lopez aren't the right guys. Would you rather go after knuckleheads like Andray Blatche or Javale McGee?

Take a look at the 2012 free agent crop. Do you have any better ideas as to what to do with the cap space? Let's not salivate over the likes of Dwight Howard or Kevin Love. They're not walking through that door.

Yes, wait til the summer.

Every one of those wacky deals is available in the summer because you don't have to send them an expiring contract to fit those terrible contracts under your cap. Boston will be so far under that they can just take them for nothing. What is the fascination with closing off any other options before you have to?

I don't get it.

Edited by mcpickl, 17 January 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[dolomite133]

Because there is zero reason to act right now. Whatever Ray is worth right now, he'll be worth at the deadline. Leaving KG out of the discussion because he has no value.

So why hurry to dump him now rather than see what develops?

You'll note that, in the post you referenced, I was talking about making a deadline deal (as opposed to waiting for the offseason, which is what *I thought* you have consistently advocated thus far). But if we're on the same page, and are both advocating a deadline deal, then I guess you see the same urgency I do.

[Brickowski]

Because next Summer there will be more competition from better teams for the better players, either in trades or free agency. How did CP3 work out? How did David West work out? Good players aren't going to rush here to play with the prickly Rondo.

Plus you don't want the fading big three to win just enough games to take you out of the lottery. If you are going to rebuild sooner rather than later you need a top 5 (or maybe even top three) pick. If the draft were being held today, the C's would be picking from #6 to #9 this coming June. That's not good enough.

We're talking about blowing it up, right? You want to blow it up without blowing it up and settle for years of mediocrity? I don't.

And what value are you going to get by just letting Ray's deal or KG's deal expire, the way Cleveland did with LeBron? Even a second round pick is better than nothing.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[mcpickl]

You'll note that, in the post you referenced, I was talking about making a deadline deal (as opposed to waiting for the offseason, which is what *I thought* you have consistently advocated thus far). But if we're on the same page, and are both advocating a deadline deal, then I guess you see the same urgency I do.

Yes, I will continue to consistently advocate waiting for the offseason to make decisions on the cap going forward. In that post you're talking about using our cap space at the deadline(because we have leverage!) rather than wait til the offseason(when for some reason, we have no leverage?). So no, we're not on the same page, at all.

Not interested in adding any contracts that would be available before then.

Edited by mcpickl, 17 January 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[dolomite133]

Yes, I will continue to consistently advocate waiting for the offseason to make decisions on the cap going forward. In that post you're talking about using our cap space at the deadline(because we have leverage!) rather than wait til the offseason(when for some reason, we have no leverage?). So no, we're not on the same page, at all.

Not interested in adding any contracts that would be available before then.

I'll get back to you when the Trade Machine is back up next week.

[Riles335]

Because next Summer there will be more competition from better teams for the better players, either in trades or free agency. How did CP3 work out? How did David West work out? Good players aren't going to rush here to play with the prickly Rondo.

How did CP3 and David West workout? It didn't because they didn't have cap space and flexibility to meet those players/teams demands. The Celtics will in fact have MONEY MONEY MONEY to throw at multiple players once this season ends so there is zero reason to acquire mediocre players on terrible contracts. If you want to do it during the offseason after failing to real in your top targets, then go for it, but don't sell yourself short and do it now.

I don't understand your negative attitude towards Rondo but he is a great player and there are plenty of reasons why players would want to play with him. Additionally, like I said, the Celtics will have flexibility and money which will give the Celtics an opportunity to finally meet players demands, something that hasn't been able to happen in over a decade.

[Rudy Pemberton]

You can't just trade Allen or Garnett for a pick, because of the salaries they make. Try to trade Allen to Chicago, and you have to take back guys like Korver and Watson, who have years remaining on their deals, all for the privilege of obtaining a crappy pick that Ainge will likely botch? There's really no possible way to move Garnett to a contender that would make sense to the other team since they'd have to give up real talent. So, the choice is move Allen and commit more payroll going forward, or let him expire and have more cap space. I'm going with the latter, even if it's unlikely to be all that successful.

[Brickowski]

The issue is, are players like Korver and Watson (or similar players-- I'm not advocating for any particular player) as good or better than the players you could attract as free agents if you wait until June and use your cap space? Do you think that the better free agents (whether restricted or unrestricted) are going to settle for one-year deals? At some point you're going to have to pay if you want to rebuild with better players.

Of course you cannot trade Garnett for a second round pick. But you might be able to trade him for two years of Rashard Lewis and a first round pick.

[mcpickl]

You can't just trade Allen or Garnett for a pick, because of the salaries they make. Try to trade Allen to Chicago, and you have to take back guys like Korver and Watson, who have years remaining on their deals, all for the privilege of obtaining a crappy pick that Ainge will likely botch? There's really no possible way to move Garnett to a contender that would make sense to the other team since they'd have to give up real talent. So, the choice is move Allen and commit more payroll going forward, or let him expire and have more cap space. I'm going with the latter, even if it's unlikely to be all that successful.

You're right on with KG, he's immovable in any deal you would want to do.

Ray could be moved though without bringing back salary, but I only see two possibilities on contenders.

One is Indiana, who is far enough under the cap to fit him in without sending out salary, if they feel they can contend.

The other is, GULP, the Lakers who can use the Odom trade exception to fit him in.

[Brickowski]

The Odom trade exception is less than half of what it would take to acquire Garnett. You can't combine exceptions. Unless the available salary numbers are all wrong, there is no team that can acquire Garnett without matching salaries--- unless Garnett were to be amnestied.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[mcpickl]

The issue is, are players like Korver and Watson (or similar players-- I'm not advocating for any particular player) as good or better than the players you could attract as free agents if you wait until June and use your cap space? Do you think that the better free agents (whether restricted or unrestricted) are going to settle for one-year deals? At some point you're going to have to pay if you want to rebuild with better players.

Of course you cannot trade Garnett for a second round pick. But you might be able to trade him for two years of Rashard Lewis and a first round pick.

You don't need the better free agents to settle for one year deals.

You just need to not take on role players who have one year left on their deals to block up your cap space this summer to chase better players.

[dolomite133]

How did CP3 and David West workout? It didn't because they didn't have cap space and flexibility to meet those players/teams demands. The Celtics will in fact have MONEY MONEY MONEY to throw at multiple players once this season ends so there is zero reason to acquire mediocre players on terrible contracts. If you want to do it during the offseason after failing to real in your top targets, then go for it, but don't sell yourself short and do it now.

I don't understand your negative attitude towards Rondo but he is a great player and there are plenty of reasons why players would want to play with him. Additionally, like I said, the Celtics will have flexibility and money which will give the Celtics an opportunity to finally meet players demands, something that hasn't been able to happen in over a decade.

But here's my point, cap space is just that, space. We HAVE to fill it. If we wait until the offseason we'll most likely fill it with mediocre players. Prized free agents will probably not choose to come to Boston (ie Howard) and, as a result, the players we end up signing will likely be overpaid and their contracts will likely be 2-4 years. However if we make a trade, we in essence FORCE players to come here. What's more, we COULD acquire draft picks through a trade.

For those of you thinking we have a chance to land a major piece on the free agent market, or to make a draft night deal when our only chips will be Rondo, Pierce, Bradley, Bass and Jajuan, I think you're dreaming. The ONLY major thing that could happen is we trade Rondo for a Top 5 pick. Not sure how that would work or if a team would want to make that deal, but maybe (I dunno if I believe that, but I suppose, as KG once said, "Anything is possible!").

[mcpickl]

The Odom trade exception is less than half of what it would take to acquire Garnett. You can't combine exceptions.

Didn't say KG, said Ray.

[Riles335]

Do you think that the better free agents (whether restricted or unrestricted) are going to settle for one-year deals? At some point you're going to have to pay if you want to rebuild with better players.

After this year, the Celtics will be able to offer multi year contracts with their cap flexibility. The reason why they have stayed the course with one year contract offers over the past few years was because they didn't want to tie up any figures when they knew that they were entering an offseason with 35+ million dollars worth of cap space as well as not having the room under the cap to afford multi year deals. I don't understand how you don't understand this.

[mcpickl]

But here's my point, cap space is just that, space. We HAVE to fill it. If we wait until the offseason we'll most likely fill it with mediocre players. Prized free agents will probably not choose to come to Boston (ie Howard) and, as a result, the players we end up signing will likely be overpaid and their contracts will likely be 2-4 years. However if we make a trade, we in essence FORCE players to come here. What's more, we COULD acquire draft picks through a trade.

For those of you thinking we have a chance to land a major piece on the free agent market, or to make a draft night deal when our only chips will be Rondo, Pierce, Bradley, Bass and Jajuan, I think you're dreaming. The ONLY major thing that could happen is we trade Rondo for a Top 5 pick. Not sure how that would work or if a team would want to make that deal, but maybe (I dunno if I believe that, but I suppose, as KG once said, "Anything is possible!").

Give me an example of trading KGs expiring contract for a package you're talking about, and I'll show you how you can make the same deal this summer.

There is no reason to rush.

[dolomite133]

Mcpickl, you can't trade KG this summer, he won't be under contract.

And do you think Detroit might be willing to clear the decks and trade Gordon and Jerebko for KG's expiring deal at the deadline?

Edited by dolomite133, 17 January 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[mcpickl]

Mcpickl, you can't trade KG this summer, he won't be under contract.

Give me a example, I promise I'll show you.

You don't need KG to make these salary dump deals, you just need the salary cap space KG provides. You'll still have that in the summer.

It's really not complicated.

Edited by mcpickl, 17 January 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[Riles335]

But here's my point, cap space is just that, space. We HAVE to fill it. If we wait until the offseason we'll most likely fill it with mediocre players. Prized free agents will probably not choose to come to Boston (ie Howard) and, as a result, the players we end up signing will likely be overpaid and their contracts will likely be 2-4 years. However if we make a trade, we in essence FORCE players to come here. What's more, we COULD acquire draft picks through a trade.

For those of you thinking we have a chance to land a major piece on the free agent market, or to make a draft night deal when our only chips will be Rondo, Pierce, Bradley, Bass and Jajuan, I think you're dreaming. The ONLY major thing that could happen is we trade Rondo for a Top 5 pick. Not sure how that would work or if a team would want to make that deal, but maybe (I dunno if I believe that, but I suppose, as KG once said, "Anything is possible!").

And if your the Celtics with 35 million dollars, you can trade for players to come here as well. This whole "force" thing makes zero sense. You can offer 2nd round picks to teams to bring in 8 million dollar contracts because you are in fact well under the cap. If you make those deals now, you are selling your self short of any sort of creativity in the off season. You are selling yourself short of offering Howard a contract, however likely or unlikely it is, money talks...You are selling yourself short of offering Kevin Love a max offer sheet which would offer him a more appealing place to play than Minnesota. I am not saying that these signings will happen but by running the course and letting these deals expire, your giving yourself the opportunity to be players in the offseason. If they don't work out, you can then trade and "force" players to come here because there are plenty of teams dying to rid themselves of eight million dollars to a team that can afford it.

[dolomite133]

And if your the Celtics with 35 million dollars, you can trade for players to come here as well. This whole "force" thing makes zero sense. You can offer 2nd round picks to teams to bring in 8 million dollar contracts because you are in fact well under the cap. If you make those deals now, you are selling your self short of any sort of creativity in the off season. You are selling yourself short of offering Howard a contract, however likely or unlikely it is, money talks...You are selling yourself short of offering Kevin Love a max offer sheet which would offer him a more appealing place to play than Minnesota. I am not saying that these signings will happen but by running the course and letting these deals expire, your giving yourself the opportunity to be players in the offseason. If they don't work out, you can then trade and "force" players to come here because there are plenty of teams dying to rid themselves of eight million dollars to a team that can afford it.

I'm looking at the percentages and the odds. Most likely we don't get Love or Howard. Most likely a team won't teal a building block for a shitty pick (I'm having trouble coming up with a precedent for a team scoring a great player in this fashion, any help?). Am I correct in saying those are both low percentage options?

[mcpickl]

I'm looking at the percentages and the odds. Most likely we don't get Love or Howard. Most likely a team won't teal a building block for a shitty pick (I'm having trouble coming up with a precedent for a team scoring a great player in this fashion, any help?). Am I correct in saying those are both low percentage options?

Yes, they're low percentage.

Does that mean they're 0% so you have to fill up your cap now? Right now! Now!

No KG example?

[Brickowski]

There is no question that, if you wait until next summer, you can be very creative in trading for the crap that other teams are desperately trying to unload.

Who knows, you might even be able to pick up Channing Frye for a second round pick!

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 11:11 PM.

[dolomite133]

Yes, they're low percentage.

Does that mean they're 0% so you have to fill up your cap now? Right now! Now!

No KG example?

See my Detroit proposal above. Far-fetched, but logical for both parties, given their current predicaments. ... And how is relying on low percentage options smart planning???

There is no question that, if you wait until next summer, you can be very creative in trading for the crap that other teams are desperately trying to unload.

This sums up my opinion (and fear) as well.

Edited by dolomite133, 17 January 2012 - 11:12 PM.

[Riles335]

I'm looking at the percentages and the odds. Most likely we don't get Love or Howard. Most likely a team won't teal a building block for a shitty pick (I'm having trouble coming up with a precedent for a team scoring a great player in this fashion, any help?). Am I correct in saying those are both low percentage options?

Of course you are correct in saying they are both low but that doesn't mean you have to go ahead now or this off season filling your team with crappy contracts. I only used your example of trading for players during the off season because you said that you would like to see them make deals now. There is a real possibility that if the Celtics can't attract Howard or Love, they will have to rebuild over time and with draft picks. It is very, very hard to rebuild on the fly. The only way you are able to do it is if you are the Heat, get very lucky with cap space and timing, and land three max contracts. This very well might take four or five years to get going again. That is how sports work.