1222 replies to this topic

[dbn]

3.) Blow the whole the up. The problem is that right now the trade market would pretty much guarantee that Ainge would get back pennies on the peso, even for marketable guys like Rondo. There's a chance this could change at the deadline. The market for a Ray Allen or even a Paul Pierce could be much better on March 15th than today. If anything, it's unlikely to be worse, barring injury. Swapping Rondo for Michael Beasley solves nothing, so that ain't happening.

If he can get back 8 pennies on the peso, he'd be coming out ahead.

[lexrageorge]

To maintain our current spending levels in preparation for a future trade, to a team looking to an expiring contract. It's kicking the can down the road.

This strategy, like all others, comes with its own set of problems.

First, Wyc & Co. are unlikely to allow Ainge to exceed the luxury tax threshold with a bunch of bad contract vets. So, we really can't maintain current spending levels per se.

Also, this can work for a year or two; after that, owners get impatient with teams that draw no fans and are in salary cap hell every year. Ainge was successful at this, but even he was getting closer to the end of the line prior to getting Allen and Garnett.

[mahky bellhorn]

I doubt that the Warriors are looking to unload Lee at all, but he would be a pretty sexy 5th wheel for the team.

FWIW we already have 4 really good players, we're not going to get a star so good complementary players like Lee/West are what we need to get over the hump. Granted, we ain't getting either of them, but maybe Ainge can haul in an Anderson Varejao who's just as good in a different mold.

edit- we ain't trading for any amnesty candidates like biedrins. ew.

Edited by mahky bellhorn, 22 December 2011 - 01:14 AM.

[dolomite133]

Agreed Turner isn't a franchise players. But he's a Top 5 pick with upside who is mired in a platoon situation now. He's a small salary player that could blossom if he were brought to Boston.

Now, he's only one piece of the puzzle. But if we could add a legit 4 or 5 to a back court of Rondo and Turner ... then maybe we'd have something brewing here.

And no, I don't think Oden's that player. He appears to be in worse shape than 1987 Bill Walton. He has experienced more health problems in two years than most players do their entire careers. I'm pretty sure he will continue to suffer significant injuries and setbacks until he retires.

[CreightonGubanich]

Honestly, if the Celtics come to the conclusion that there's no one worth spending their cap money on next year, I'd rather they just re-up KG and Ray on one year deals (hopefully at less money so they can add a couple complementary pieces) rather than take on decent players with bad contracts. That's never a route to success in the NBA. And there's no reason Rondo should be moved for anything other than a guy who can be the first or second best player on a championship team. Why move a young, cost-controlled All-Star who wants to be here for an inferior player?

The thing I think people are missing is that there's not really any such thing as a prospect in the NBA, at least not in the baseball sense. You can't really acquire a young player and hope he blossoms into a superstar. By the time a guy is a year or two into the league, you pretty much know what his ceiling is. A guy like Evan Turner is young, and may have some upside -- but that upside is purely as a complimentary player. Look at most of the franchise players around the league. With the exception of a couple guys like Steve Nash, we knew what most of them were either when they were drafted or shortly thereafter. So you really have to rebuild either through free agency or through the draft.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Agreed Turner isn't a franchise players. But he's a Top 5 pick with upside who is mired in a platoon situation now. He's a small salary player that could blossom if he were brought to Boston.

Now, he's only one piece of the puzzle. But if we could add a legit 4 or 5 to a back court of Rondo and Turner ... then maybe we'd have something brewing here.

And no, I don't think Oden's that player. He appears to be in worse shape than 1987 Bill Walton. He has experienced more health problems in two years than most players do their entire careers. I'm pretty sure he will continue to suffer significant injuries and setbacks until he retires.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mired in a platoon". Right now, the Sixers have plenty of minutes to give Turner at the 2, splitting them with Jodie Meeks. He and Meeks are two pretty different players, and play significantly different roles when they're on the floor, and I have a hard time believing the Sixers are going to give up on Turner after a single season.

[Brickowski]

And no, I don't think Oden's that player. He appears to be in worse shape than 1987 Bill Walton. He has experienced more health problems in two years than most players do their entire careers. I'm pretty sure he will continue to suffer significant injuries and setbacks until he retires.

Who knows? No team is going to offer Oden a contract without bringing him in for a workout and a physical. He's really in a similar position to Jeff Green, except that the Blazers have not voided Oden's deal. Your prediction may be 100% correct-- or maybe not.

[Mike in CT]

I only see one team out there that could end up in the lottery, yet deal their pick (unprotected) to try and be relevant right now... and that's the desperate Nets.

KG, Ray Allen for Okur, Humphries, Garbage, and their 1st round pick unprotected.

Then you hope it doesn't work out down there.

That's about the only route to hitting a home run pick in this draft (besides our own pick, or trading Rondo).

[Kutcher Era Youth]

There's potential for several decent bigs in the west to be available that may accept KG in a deal for the purposes of a salary dump. I could see the Hornets parting with Okafor who has 2 years and about 28 mil left on his deal after this season. Scola has 3 years left at 9, 10, and 11 million per. Both players have their warts but if D12 isn't walking through that door I'd be willing to give up the Clippers pick for either of them.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Okafor and Ariza for Garnett works, but why would the Celtics do that? You'd be assuming those guys for 2+ years and limiting your flexibility in FA.

Similarly, the Rockets could give up Scola, Thabeet, and Flynn for Garnett. But again, I'm not sure why C's do that.

Contenders that could use Allen or Garnett don't have contracts, players, or picks to make it work. Teams that want the expiring contracts for FA, well....the C's should be one f those teams instead of flipping them for other teams regrettable deals.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 15 January 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

Okafor and Ariza for Garnett works, but why would the Celtics do that? You'd be assuming those guys for 2+ years and limiting your flexibility in FA.

Similarly, the Rockets could give up Scola, Thabeet, and Flynn for Garnett. But again, I'm not sure why C's do that.

Contenders that could use Allen or Garnett don't have contracts, players, or picks to make it work. Teams that want the expiring contracts for FA, well....the C's should be one f those teams instead of flipping them for other teams regrettable deals.

I don't think that either of Scola or Okafor's contracts are bad unless they're playing for a team that doesn't plan on being competitive. And cap space is only useful if there's something worth spending it on, which brings me to another far fetched idea: I'd try and trade Rondo to a lotto bound team for their pick and expirings during this season, and resign myself to watching this team blow. That gives Boston plenty of ping pong balls and worse case scenario picking like 6th and 8th. It also gives them enough flexibility to sign both Deron and Howard and probably would still be able to flip the picks for some affordable players. It's absurdly far fetched, but if I'm Ainge I would be moving heaven and earth to put Boston in the best position to land Howard this summer.

[Mike in CT]

Houston would not trade Scola for KG. Scola is the better player now, and his contract is fine.

Edited by Mike in CT, 15 January 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Brickowski]

Well you aren't going to land Howard if you trade Rondo. I don't disagree with trading Rondo in the right deal, but it's not worth moving heaven and earth for something that won't happen.

The 2012 free agent crop is thin. There are a couple of young big men who are retricted FAs, e.g. Thompson and McGee, but you probably have to overspend to get one of those guys. Among the unrestricted FAs there are a couple of younger players wo might be worth a shot, e.g. Ilyasova, Dragic or Amundson, but no real building blocks.

So if he deals, Ainge has to get picks. IMHO Mike in CT is on the right track in post #58 above. Alas, I don't think the Nets would do that deal. Billy King might, but Prokorhov would overrule him.

Edited by Brickowski, 15 January 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

Well you aren't going to land Howard if you trade Rondo. I don't disagree with trading Rondo in the right deal, but it's not worth moving heaven and earth for something that won't happen.

Trading Rondo but upgrading to Deron Williams. In my scenario they'd only be paying Pierce and maybe Bass heading into the summer, with tons of cap room to bring in both Deron Williams and Dwight Howard, and 2 lotto picks to do as they see fit.

The biggest obstacle in my eyes is finding a compatible suitor for Rondo. Well that, and convincing all these people involved to do what I want them to.

Edited by Kutcher Era Youth, 15 January 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Brickowski]

Premier players like DWill and Howard (and their agents) will want to do extend and trades, not free agency deals. Only second tier or flawed players will end up as free agents, barring major screw ups.

[Brickowski]

Does anyone think that there is a tacit agreement between Danny and Doc (as part of Doc's agreement to stay on as coach for 5 more years) that Rondo will be moved (either at the deadline or on draft night) for a draft pick that could be used to select--Austin Rivers?

Edited by Brickowski, 16 January 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[radsoxfan]

Does anyone think that there is a tacit agreement between Danny and Doc (as part of Doc's agreement to stay on as coach for 5 more years) that Rondo will be moved (either at the deadline or on draft night) for a draft pick that could be used to select--Austin Rivers?

No

[dolomite133]

Is there any way to deal KG for Camby, Batum and cash/trade exceptions/second rounders?

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Nope.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Camby and Batum don't come close to KG's contract, they'd have to add in someone like Crawford. They aren't giving up three guys who are in their rotation for KG. Frankly, I'm not even sure if they'd trade Camby for Gatnett (if they could) never mind throw in Batum and picks.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

I like the way this thread's evolving. Crazy ideas followed by responses of " C'mon, that's crazy" ! I think some of us deserve some credit for coming up with some pretty far fetched shit. How about a pat on the back?

Regarding the cap space; if we're not going to be players for Howard or make a serious bid on an RFA this summer, what about eating an awful contract for a pick? Kind of like the deal we had with Portland in '06 when we swapped Lafrentz for Ratliff. That is of course unless you think we really wanted Telfair that badly............

Edited by Kutcher Era Youth, 16 January 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[mcpickl]

I like the way this thread's evolving. Crazy ideas followed by responses of " C'mon, that's crazy" ! I think some of us deserve some credit for coming up with some pretty far fetched shit. How about a pat on the back?

Regarding the cap space; if we're not going to be players for Howard or make a serious bid on an RFA this summer, what about eating an awful contract for a pick? Kind of like the deal we had with Portland in '06 when we swapped Lafrentz for Ratliff. That is of course unless you think we really wanted Telfair that badly............

I'll use your words in response.

Crazy ideas followed by responses of " C'mon, that's crazy" !

Why are people in a hurry to lock up the Celtics cap space before seeing what unfolds this summer? I don't get the rush.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

I'll use your words in response.

Crazy ideas followed by responses of " C'mon, that's crazy" !

Why are people in a hurry to lock up the Celtics cap space before seeing what unfolds this summer? I don't get the rush.

My proposal was based on the premise that there was nothing on the horizon worth using their cap space on, except essentially buying draft picks. If they're resigned to sucking for the next two seasons, then why not buy some picks and bring in some crap contracts? They're gonna suck anyways......

I'm at a loss as to whether or not Ainge has any more info than us regarding DHowards intentions after this season. If he feels Boston has a legit shot, then by all means let's keep our options open. If not, I'd rather just trade cash for picks and lay low for a few years.

[mcpickl]

My proposal was based on the premise that there was nothing on the horizon worth using their cap space on, except essentially buying draft picks. If they're resigned to sucking for the next two seasons, then why not buy some picks and bring in some crap contracts? They're gonna suck anyways......

I'm at a loss as to whether or not Ainge has any more info than us regarding DHowards intentions after this season. If he feels Boston has a legit shot, then by all means let's keep our options open. If not, I'd rather just trade cash for picks and lay low for a few years.

Right, and my response is we can't know what's on the horizon until we get there in the summer, so why worry about a backup plan, to the backup plan, to the backup plan now?

Closing off options that may be there this summer now is maybe the worst possible idea.

Couldn't you just trade cash for picks this summer if all other options fail? Why does that have to happen now?

Edited by mcpickl, 16 January 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[Mike in CT]

Can you still route trades through teams under the cap? I remember a few deadline deals in the past that were routed through Atlanta to avoid the 25% rule.

[dolomite133]

Right, and my response is we can't know what's on the horizon until we get there in the summer, so why worry about a backup plan, to the backup plan, to the backup plan now?

Closing off options that may be there this summer now is maybe the worst possible idea.

Couldn't you just trade cash for picks this summer if all other options fail? Why does that have to happen now?

Well, there is the foreseeable future, and then there is the unforseen. When planning the team's future, the Celtics can only rely on the former. What they can foresee is a tepid free agent market with few big names, and even fewer impact players on the trading block. So if they enter the offseason with cap space, they will most likely sign mediocre talent to multiyear deals.

Now, while it's true there could be an unforeseeable development, like Dwight Howard choosing to come to Boston or Minnesota declining to match an offer for Keving Love, it is highly unlikely.

The faster the Celtics act, the faster they can dictate their future and control their destiny. We need to make a move around the trading deadline, in my opinion, and take advantage of contending teams looking to improve their lineups (or teams interested in large, expiring deals). That gives us maximum leverage. Waiting until the summer means our future will most likely depend on the actions of others.

Edited by dolomite133, 16 January 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Brickowski]

Who knows what's going to happen? It will all be much clearer on March 14. If the Celtics continue to stand around on the boards, they could have one of the worst records in the league at that point and they won't need to take on bad contracts to get a top five pick.

And you never know what stupid things other teams will do. There will be at least 2-3 teams willing to unload good players to save money, either at the deadline or on draft night. So Ainge has to be ready to take advantage of opportunities.

The group of unrestricted free agents in July, 2012 looks like crap to me. Players like Kirk Hinrich or Boris Diaw aren't the young building blocks they need. Therefore, Ainge needs to target 1-2 restricted free agents and be prepared to make front-loaded offers to those players and to overpay a little. For example, it is rumored that Hibbert will test restricted free agency rather than signing an extension with Indiana. You may not be able to get Hibbert, but at least you can make life much more expensive for Mr. Bird.

He needs to get at least one, and preferably two, decent young big men over the next two years. At the moment it does not appear that JaJuan Johnson is going to be one of them.

Edited by Brickowski, 16 January 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[mcpickl]

Well, there is the foreseeable future, and then there is the unforseen. When planning the team's future, the Celtics can only rely on the former. What they can foresee is a tepid free agent market with few big names, and even fewer impact players on the trading block. So if they enter the offseason with cap space, they will most likely sign mediocre talent to multiyear deals.

Now, while it's true there could be an unforeseeable development, like Dwight Howard choosing to come to Boston or Minnesota declining to match an offer for Keving Love, it is highly unlikely.

The faster the Celtics act, the faster they can dictate their future and control their destiny. We need to make a move around the trading deadline, in my opinion, and take advantage of contending teams looking to improve their lineups (or teams interested in large, expiring deals). That gives us maximum leverage. Waiting until the summer means our future will most likely depend on the actions of others.

No.

If you're talking about trading Ray Allen for a pick in the 20s, yes that has to happen by the deadline. Though I'd hardly call that activating a rebuilding plan, picks in the 20s aren't all that valuable.

Trading an expiring deal like KG to a team for their big money player signed longterm can happen during the summer. Bonus for the other team, Celtics can just take the guy and give them back no salary because they'd have the cap room. Expiring deal is unnecessary.

I'll take my chances on something unforeseen being available this summer than lock myself into something now that would be just as available in July.

[teddykgb]

eek...overpaying for Hibbert? Is that really an end game?

It's a really interesting problem and one without an answer right now. The NBA CBA is so damn restrictive, it seems like getting a really game changing FA is a real longshot, especially since one of the potential good ones plays the only position you're really set at moving forward.

I'm not sure how a team goes about rebuilding without getting some good draft picks. Even our current version of the Celtics were built on the backs of some good drafting and acquiring enough young assets to make a move. The FA game is expensive, and since teams can go over to resign their own FAs it generally means you can only sign guys who teams are willing to walk away from, which obviously isn't a good sign. It's only when the superstars get fed up with losing that you stand a chance to pick up someone who can really help. It's hard to tell how often that's going to happen moving forward, though. It has happened a decent amount recently, and may lead to Howard having availability, but what do the 13/14/15 off seasons look like? Otherwise you're picking through reclamation projects, has beens, and cast offs, and I'm not sure how much of a recipe of success that will be moving forward.

I guess the home run play is to look to turn Rondo into a good player of comparable value at a different position, then make a strong push for Howard and Williams in the off season. Then, if you believe jeff Green isn't a timid tweener who can actaully fill it up, you try to bring him back and have something that approximates a rebuild in a very short time. It's a lot of eggs to put in one basket, but it seems like the only way out of this mess that doesn't involve a longer and more prolonged bottoming out.

[Brickowski]

Hibbert is 7-2 and has a hook shot. He rebounds. Is he the most exciting and talented player in the league? No. But you are going to overpay for someone, it might as well be him.

After the big three ride off into the sunset, the endgame is 5 years away, so no, he isn't the endgame.

Edited by Brickowski, 16 January 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[dolomite133]

@McPickl

I'd take a pick in the 20s for Ray. Better than letting his contract expire. I'd take SOMETHING in return for KG because his contract expires at the end of the season (meaning it won't be a trading chip this summer). I'd make a move at the trading deadline, when we have leverage, rather than wait until the summer, when our only "leverage" would be to act as a third team in a three team deal (because we ain't getting Howard or Love, and the point guard free agents are redundant with Rondo on the team).

I expect Danny is burning the phone lines up, moreso every time we lose a game, and am confident we will make some moves at the deadline. Hopefully it's not another Raef Lafrentz deal.

BTW, why are you so adamantly in favor of waiting? What historical precedent informs your thinking? What teams have been successful because they waited? (I don't want to hear Miami, either, because that was obviously the product of back room, illegal talks between Wade, Bosh and Lebron).

Edited by dolomite133, 16 January 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

@McPickl

I'd take a pick in the 20s for Ray. Better than letting his contract expire. I'd take SOMETHING in return for KG because his contract expires at the end of the season (meaning it won't be a trading chip this summer). I'd make a move at the trading deadline, when we have leverage, rather than wait until the summer, when our only "leverage" would be to act as a third team in a three team deal (because we ain't getting Howard or Love, and the point guard free agents are redundant with Rondo on the team).

I expect Danny is burning the phone lines up, moreso every time we lose a game, and am confident we will make some moves at the deadline. Hopefully it's not another Raef Lafrentz deal.

BTW, why are you so adamantly in favor of waiting? What historical precedent informs your thinking? What teams have been successful because they waited? (I don't want to hear Miami, either, because that was obviously the product of back room, illegal talks between Wade, Bosh and Lebron).

You keep insisting that there are two options: wait or act now. But the fact of the matter is that every single time you're pressed to present a realistic "act now" option, you can't. The entire purpose of this thread is to suggest far-fetched but possible rebuilding ideas, and there aren't any actual ideas in the thread. There's just a faction of people insisting that something be done, and another faction of people asking what that is.

So far, we've heard you suggest the Evan Turner 3 team deal with Philly and a hypothetical young big man on a hypothetical contender that Philly values as much as they value Turner, which isn't an idea so much as just you naming a player you'd like the Celtics to acquire. You've also suggested that Portland send a third of their rotation to Boston for KG because Portland is, apparently, really desperate for an overpaid 4 to back up Aldridge. Meanwhile, the only slightly realistic suggestion has been Allen to the Bulls, but as has been discussed at length, the contracts the Bulls have to send back makes the deal unlikely.

So, seriously this time: Start suggesting deals that make sense for all of the teams involved or spare us your daily "what in God's name is Ainge waiting for" posts. One or the other.

[dolomite133]

Yes sir Mr. Barret sir!

Edit: removed a T

Edited by dolomite133, 17 January 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Yes sir Mr. Barret sir!

Edit: removed a T

Oops, sorry. I apologize for insisting on reason.

[dolomite133]

Oops, sorry. I apologize for insisting on reason.

No no no. Don't apologize. BTW what time are you christening the flying wasp?

[Mike in CT]

KG is now borderline worthless on the trade market, unless you want to take back some bad multi-year contracts to get something good.
Ray won't bring the value he's worth right now.

Keep them all for this year.

This summer, let KG walk.

Make restricted runs at Hibbert and Eric Gordon.

If you get Hibbert, bring back Ray on a cheaper 1 year deal.

If you get Gordon, let Ray walk and get to work on the front court.

Either scenario could also include amnestying Pierce if you have a chance at another RFA or Howard/Deron.

If you get none, you may as well bring back KG and Ray as cheap as possible for 1 year, keep Pierce, fill in the blanks, and keep the fans buying the tickets until better free agents become available.

[Brickowski]

As an aside, I noticed that Marreese Speights had a double double (16-12) for Memphis in the Grizzly's win over the Bulls yesterday (Rose didn't play). The Sixers basically got two second round picks for Speights. Why isn't Ainge going after players like Speights instead of overpaying for the useless Chris Wilcox?

They rebounded a little better last night, but killed themselves with turnovers. The biggest culprits were Pierce and Allen. The Comcast talking heads and shills will try to convince us that this is just a "rough patch" but I've seen enough. This team is going nowhere. And it is going nowhere in an unentertaining way.

It's time for this team to get younger and even lousier. Immediately.

1. Jermaine O'Neal to Sacramento for Jason Thompson (reportedly not in Sacramento's plans-- will not be offered an extension) andTravis Outlaw (currently out with a broken foot). Saves the Kings $13 million in future salary.

2. Ray Allen to Phoenix for Josh Childress and Robin Lopez. Saves the Suns $25 million in future salary commitments.

3. Garnett and $3M in cash to New Orleans for Okafor and Belinelli. Belinelli would have to agree to the trade.

4. Garnett to Washington for Rashard Lewis and the Wizards' unprotected 2012 first round pick. Saves Washington $23M. Frankly I'm suprised that the Wizards did not amnesty Lewis. The Celtics would play Lewis this year then then amnesty him on July 1.

5. Ray Allen to the Nets for Kris Humphries. Humphries would have to agree to the deal.

6. Paul Pierce to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison. Clears Pierce off the books.

7. Rondo to Charlotte for Kemba Walker, Boris Diaw and a first round pick (top 3 protected). Replace Rondo with a young pg who can score, and clear another $9M off the books in 2012.

I'm sure the nay sayers will have objections to every one of these deals. But if you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't waste time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[BucketOBalls]

Either scenario could also include amnestying Pierce if you have a chance at another RFA or Howard/Deron.

The real question is what to do with Rondo. If they have a real chance at someone like Howard then keep him and work toward that, otherwise they should get something(should be significant) for him.

[Brickowski]

Rondo is a great point guard with great players around him. If he played for the Heat or the Thunder he'd average 15+ assists per game. Alas, he's much less effective with lousy players around him because he can't shoot well enough.

In fact, Rondo to Denver for Andre Miller (a player I hate, but his deal is expiring) and Luc Mbah a Moute would be a great deal for the C's. Alas, Denver probably wouldn't do it.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[Mike in CT]

The real question is what to do with Rondo. If they have a real chance at someone like Howard then keep him and work toward that, otherwise they should get something(should be significant) for him.

Keep Rondo unless...

A. Deron Williams is the only major FA you can get (then trade Rondo for a star/semi-star at another position)
B. You get no one in FA, but can trade Rondo for a guy who is better to build around.

[irishtap03]

4. Garnett to Washington for Rashard Lewis and the Wizards' unprotected 2012 first round pick. Saves Washington $23M. Frankly I'm suprised that the Wizards did not amnesty Lewis. The Celtics would play Lewis this year then then amnesty him on July 1.

In this deal you can't amnesty Lewis. Only the team he signed with if he was on the team before 12/9/11 can cut him via the amnesty rule. Once you are traded you can't be cut. However i would still do this deal in a second even if it meant keeping Lewis and i'll explain why below (don't actually believe Washington would do it but not the point)

In the end everyone needs to come to the conclusion that the only way this team is going to get back to the top is to bottom out and rebuild through the draft. Look at the standings today and the teams in first place in their division:
Phili - AI2
Chicago - Rose
Orlando - Howard
OKC - Durant
Clippers - Blake
Spurs - Duncan and Parker

Outside of Blake who you might argue is 1A on the Clippers each team has built through the draft by getting their stud with a top to high pick, The one exception to this would be Philly with AI but also helps prove the point because they are by far the weakest of the top teams listed here and took AI2 with the 9th pick, not a spot you usually get a franchise guy. The C's are not landing a stud in free agency and any free agent we get next year will be an overpay that will get us back to the pre KG/Ray era of first or second rd exits.

So my suggestion is trade KG and Ray Ray for any type of draft pick you can get in the 2012 (if possible) or 2013 draft. Even if it means taking a player on a player whose contract doesn't expire after this year. If that helps land a better pick so be it. This team is not winning next year so really what does it matter if the C's mess the cap up next year. And if Pierce complains about rebuilding trade him too. Now with the draft picks you can start aquiring the players/assets that will help you down the road. I would not trade Rondo unless I am blown away because when you turn this around in 3 years Rondo could still be a valuable piece to the puzzle. Next year this team should bottom out and take a chance at a top 5 pick. If they get lucky and nail the pick you've already turned the corner with 2-4 draft picks from the 2012 draft (a loaded draft), a stud in 2013, and Rondo. Now you should only have Rondo and maybe one other player on the books with what you would consider a big $$$ deal. You can let the young talent develop and add the proper free agents as you see fit.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Rondo is a great point guard with great players around him. If he played for the Heat or the Thunder he'd average 15+ assists per game. Alas, he's much less effective with lousy players around him because he can't shoot well enough.

In fact, Rondo to Denver for Andre Miller (a player I hate, but his deal is expiring) and Luc Mbah a Moute would be a great deal for the C's. Alas, Denver probably wouldn't do it.

I'm not sure there is a single factual thing about this. The C's will already be plenty under the cap so there's no reason to trade Rondo for a shitty package to save long-term money. Mbah a Moute is a fine bench piece, but a truly awful return for a player of Rondo's caliber. Also, he doesn't play for Denver.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 17 January 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Brickowski]

I'm not sure there is a single factual thing about this. The C's will already be plenty under the cap so there's no reason to trade Rondo for a shitty package to save long-term money. Mbah a Moute is a fine bench piece, but a truly awful return for a player of Rondo's caliber. Also, he doesn't play for Denver.

IMHO you are overvaluaing Rondo. Maybe you ought to watch last night's game again.

As a practical matter if the Celtics embark on a complete rebuild after having traded away his buddy Perkins, Rondo is very likely going to demand a trade. If that happens, the Celtics will be lucky to get a player in return as good as Mbah a Moute.

But yes, I guess I got Denver and Milwaukee a bit confused. Six on one half a dozen on the other. So maybe you offer Rondo to Milwakee for Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova and filler, e.g. Jon Brockman.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Brickowski]

In this deal you can't amnesty Lewis. Only the team he signed with if he was on the team before 12/9/11 can cut him via the amnesty rule. Once you are traded you can't be cut.

I thought the limitation was that only players who signed their deals before the new CBA could be amnestied. I did not know that a trade nullified the receiving team's ability to amnesty a player. Where did you read that?

Once you are traded you can't be cut? You can trade for any player and they waive him the next day. You are simply required to keep paying him.

Edited by Brickowski, 17 January 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Kutcher Era Youth]

Just heard teams are inquiring about Paul Pierce. Uhm, I'll take some expiring contracts and basically no compensation, thanks and good day to you. Look, Pierce is my favorite Celtic of all time but I want no part of his 32+ million due after this season.

Imagine if he get's dealt! Rondo's the only current player with committed money!

And not to beat a dead horse but I mentioned in the other thread if Ray is dealt to the Bulls we may be able to snag their rights to the future Bobcats pick, which won't be unprotected until 2016. By then we'll all have flying cars and Facebook will be Spacebook, but I'm willing to wait.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I thought the limitation was that only players who signed their deals before the new CBA could be amnestied. I did not know that a trade nullified the receiving team's ability to amnesty a player. Where dids you read that?

Once you are traded you can't be cut? You can trade for any player and they waive him the next day. You are simply required to keep paying him.

Here's the relevant quote from a Larry Coon chat:

Amnesty can only be used for players who were with the team on 12/9. If they sign a new contract or were traded, they can’t be amnestied.

[teddykgb]

One other thing to note on any rebuilding plan: if the plan really is to go all in on Dwight Howard, you probably have to also trade Rondo because I'm not sure a team can survive with Rondo and Howard as its best two players and neither can sink a free throw. I know the Celtics did this a bit with Rondo + Shaq last year, but it strikes me that a Rondo + howard team is really ineffective late in games.

[nighthob]

Just heard teams are inquiring about Paul Pierce. Uhm, I'll take some expiring contracts and basically no compensation, thanks and good day to you. Look, Pierce is my favorite Celtic of all time but I want no part of his 32+ million due after this season.

Imagine if he get's dealt! Rondo's the only current player with committed money!

As Rondo seems widely disliked around the league, that's not actually a good thing unless your goal is to suck for a while and accumulate high picks. At this point I'm not sure Boston has many options aside from something along the lines of Paul George and picks from Indiana for Rondo (or any similar deal where Boston takes on a young player on the rise). They would at least have a hard quick landing in the right draft and have enough of a supporting cast to make a play for a Deron Williams.

[irishtap03]

I thought the limitation was that only players who signed their deals before the new CBA could be amnestied. I did not know that a trade nullified the receiving team's ability to amnesty a player. Where did you read that?

Once you are traded you can't be cut? You can trade for any player and they waive him the next day. You are simply required to keep paying him.

sorry poor choice of words at the end. You can always cut someone but to use the amnesty clause the player would already need to be on our roster. Jed Zepplin linked to a source for the amnesty clause

[irishtap03]

As Rondo seems widely disliked around the league, that's not actually a good thing unless your goal is to suck for a while and accumulate high picks. At this point I'm not sure Boston has many options aside from something along the lines of Paul George and picks from Indiana for Rondo (or any similar deal where Boston takes on a young player on the rise). They would at least have a hard quick landing in the right draft and have enough of a supporting cast to make a play for a Deron Williams.

Another reason not to trade him at all. Unless you get young talent or decent draft picks back for him you should hold on to Rondo while rebuilding. He's young enough that you could rebuild in 3 years and still have a Rondo in his prime. He's a chip not worth tradng unless you get a good deal back. With the Big 3 you need to try and get something of value now because after this year 2 of them will walk and the other (Pierce) probably won't be in love with rebuilding.