1222 replies to this topic

[ALiveH]

I love the GS deal, less love the Utah deal. As polarizing as Rondo is on this board & Celtic fans & NBA media "experts", he's also probably pretty polarizing for NBA GMs. While I like the default option of keeping Rondo as part of the rebuilding core, if you find the right GM who absolutely loves him and is willing to give up a lot, I would always do that deal (especially if it increases the chances of sucking in 2013). glancing at the C's roster...I'd consider KG, PP, JET, Bass and Lee all as definitely NOT part of the rebuild plan - those are the ones you can move for any combination of young players + picks. If I can turn those 5 players (and possibly Melo and/or Jeff Green if they're needed to sweeten the deal) into 2 2014 firsts plus the high lottery pick we'd have from our own sucking in 2013 I'd be ecstatic. In the 2014 off-season we could have 3 young attractive assets in Rondo, Bradley, Sully plus 3 firsts in a deep draft at least one of which would be a high lottery (and possibly JG + Melo if we keep them). At that point we'd decide whether to rebuild with that young core or to say trade off Sully plus the 3 firsts for 2 stars to compete right away.

[mcpickl]

IMHO if Ainge keeps it together we'll have a lotto pick in both years. After Sunday we will be either 21-23 or 20-24, and that upcoming February road trip is a killer.  If he blows it up we'll also have a lotto pick in both years, but this year's pick will likely be higher.

 

LOL, If the season ended today, we'd have a 2.5% chance of getting a top 3 pick.

They'd still have a 0% chance of a top 3 pick, because if the season ended today they're in the playoffs.

[Brickowski]

You're right, but there are 17 teams with better records.  Let's wait until the all star break.  When is Andrew Bynum due back?

[mcpickl]

GS waives Pierce to save $11M. 

If GS stands pat, they're paying tax even before resigning Jack, who has been a big part of their success this year.  They also get a pass first pg;  Curry really isn't a distributor.  Also, the C's are doing GS a huge favor by taking the unproductive Biedrins off their hands.

 

Again, this deal depends on what you think of Rondo.  Rondo is a starting all-star pg this year.  Curry wasn't selected.  Maybe you, me and Charles Barkley think Curry is a better player, but some folks don't.

GS wouldn't be saving 11M in that deal, they'd be saving 2M in 2013-14. (Curry+Biedrins is 19M, Rondo+Pierce buyout is 17M)

 

So you've got them sacrificing Curry and a 1st for Rondo just to save 2M? Gotta be a better way for them to save 2M

[Brickowski]

Rondo $12M, Pierce $4M.  I guess the C's would also have to take Brandon Rush to enable them to resign Jack and avoid tax.

[bowiac]

Golden State would also need to send Richard Jefferson to the Celtics for the trade to even be legal. That's this year.

[mcpickl]

Rondo $12M, Pierce $4M.  I guess the C's would also have to take Brandon Rush to enable them to resign Jack and avoid tax.

I will say yet again, Pierce buyout is 5M, I promise. So now the new deal is sacrificing Curry and a 1st for Rondo just to save 6M? GS can find better ways to save 6M.

 

Your fascination with teams being over the moon for the opportunity to pay Paul Pierce 5M to not play basketball for them is very strange to me. I don't see a lot of owners/GMs licking their chops for that ability, unless it was to dump an Amare-like disaster deal on the Celtics.

 

Not that it matters much, since Pierce is probably worth having at 15M next year.

Edited by mcpickl, 25 January 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Brickowski]

Well if your numbers are right then yes, the deal doesn't make much sense for GS.  And the C's aren't going to take back more salary and pay luxury tax themselves.

Back to the drawing boards.

Edited by Brickowski, 25 January 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[BigMike]

Rondo $12M, Pierce $4M.  I guess the C's would also have to take Brandon Rush to enable them to resign Jack and avoid tax.

 

I get what you are saying, but I just don't see GS going to crazy extremes,  and trading for Paul Pierce so they could waive him is a crazy extreme,  just to sign a  soon to be 30 year old Jarret Jack to a contract extension just because he is having a career year (and is the 4th or 5th best player on the team in this career year).  As well as he had played as a 6th man,  he is not a guy you blow things up to keep

 

I don't understand the NBA buyout rules obviously,  but since Jefferson and Biederins, have the same number of years and less money left on their deal than Paul Pierce why would their buyout be so much worse? If they were willing to give up a #1 in 2014 to make this deal happen they could also use similar bait,  and may need to add a bit more to get one of the low payroll teams to eat that contract for one year.  At least they wouldn't need to give up their franchise player

[Brickowski]

Golden State has a luxury tax issue.  The Celtics can't solve it with the trade I proposed, but that doesn't make it go away.

 

Pierce's contract for next year is for $15,333,334 but mcpickl says that only $5M is guaranteed.  I think there is some date after which the team owning Pierce's contract has to fish or cut bait.  Either they keep him for the full amount, or waive him, in which case they're on the hook for only $5M. I don't think it's technically a buyout, but I suppose it amounts to the same thing.

 

I have no idea what Pierce's trade value is.  I'm struggling with it.  As a cagey veteran he should have  basketball value for a contending team, but I'm not sure he's worth $15M.  Maybe he's worth that to Boston for marketing purposes.  If so, they'll keep him and let him play out the string. 

Edited by Brickowski, 26 January 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Aside from the top tier NBA superstars (KD, LBJ, Kobe, CP3), I don't think there is a player who is more unattainable than Steph Curry.  Note that this isn't my personal view (his ankles are made of glass) but the Warriors have a great thing going with their current team and Curry is the face of the franchise.  He isn't going anywhere, luxury tax problem or not.  

 

Furthermore, I cannot see Mark Jackson bringing in Rajon Rondo...that has disaster written all over it.  

 

I will also add that Biedrins, while playing small minutes of late, has been valuable to the Warriors in spots this season and was getting more time as recently as three weeks ago.  So while he might be available, I doubt that they would give him just for the sake of saving a few million.  Note that Bogut may well not come back and its uncertain what they will get from him if he does.

 

As a regular observer of Golden State, I'd expect them to be fairly quiet around the trade deadline.  There team has good chemistry and, while they could always use some front-court rebounding help or another shooter, they aren't likely to sacrifice their core players to obtain anyone with these skill sets.

Edited by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, 26 January 2013 - 12:56 AM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Ric Bucher saying on Twitter that Orlando doesn't consider the Celtics a match for JJ Reddick. They're looking for picks and/or a talented player on a rookie deal and since he specifically mentioned the Celtics as a non-match it must mean they have on interest in Melo.

[Brickowski]

Grousbeck said on NECN recently that "there's a likelihood of moves." That's mildly encouraging to folks like me who think it's time to start over.

 

As for Redick, it's more about what he wants, not what Orlando wants.  No team will give value for him unless it can sign him long term.  He'll be looking for a deal starting at substantially more than the MLE (which he could get from any team in the league as a free agent). 

[Rudy Pemberton]

Ric Bucher saying on Twitter that Orlando doesn't consider the Celtics a match for JJ Reddick. They're looking for picks and/or a talented player on a rookie deal and since he specifically mentioned the Celtics as a non-match it must mean they have on interest in Melo.

 

That's kkind of awesome. They want talented players? fuck.

[knucklecup]

 
That's kkind of awesome. They want talented players? fuck.

Now that's the brilliance I've come to expect from Bucher.

A team has a solid, tradeable commodity and they're looking for talent and/or draft picks for him.

Damn, and here I was thinking the Magic were looking for Collins in return.

[knucklecup]

http://www.ajc.com/w...-im-max-player/

 

"I feel like I'm a max player" - Josh Smith

 

If Atlanta doesn't feel that way, he's surely being moved before the deadline.

[The Legendary WOTR]

The Boston Celtics have held exploratory trade talks with the Memphis Grizzlies on Rudy Gay.

More than one team has speculated that a three-way trade that would
send Pau Gasol to the Celtics, Paul Pierce to the Grizzlies and Rudy Gay
to the Lakers makes "some sense".

Pierce's $15.3 million salary for next season is guaranteed for only $5 million, which would make his contract tradable.

Via Marc Stein/ESPN

[Rudy Pemberton]

Trading Pierce for Gasol strikes me as a pointless move that accomplishes nothing

[Nick Kaufman]

I think it makes sense provided with grab another scoring perimeter player.

Whether this trade makes sense depends on whether you think that starting Gasol and Green is more productive than Pierce-Bass and i think it is ,because Gasol gives you an inside presence, rebounding, low post moves while allowing Garnett to have more space for his jumpers. So if you trade Bass and and another piece for an acceptable outside shooter, the team gets stronger in rebounding and outside shooting. The question is whether we ll have a go to scorer, but  it doesn't seem like Pierce can be that guy any more or for too much longer .

Edited by Nick Kaufman, 26 January 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[Brickowski]

Trading Pierce for Gasol strikes me as a pointless move that accomplishes nothing

Yes, treading water.  But they get taller so KG can move back to PF.  Less wear and tear on him, fewer minutes for Bass. Green probably starts at SF, although if they make this trade, the C's will likely have to find another SF to back him up. Maybe the Lakers throw in Devin Ebanks or maybe the C's offer Barbosa or Wilcox to Milwaukee for Marquis Daniels (or something like that).

 

It makes them a little better for a year.  Gasol is a skilled 7 footer.  But then what?

Edited by Brickowski, 26 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[swingin val]

I know the Lakers are most likely exploring Gasol deals, but getting Rudy Gay for him is an awful, awful deal. It makes them worse defensively and I can't imagine they are ready to go with Earl Clark full-time for the rest of the year. 

 

I think they need to ride this current roster out until the break and see if they can crawl back into it. That being said, they do have a tough stretch of games leading up to the all-star break. They have OKC and NO at home, then go on a 7 game road trip which includes stops in MIA, BOS and BRK, then return home to face LA and PHX. Good chance they finish those 11 games below .500. 

[dolomite133]

Yes, treading water.  But they get taller so KG can move back to PF.  Less wear and tear on him, fewer minutes for Bass. Green probably starts at SF, although if they make this trade, the C's will likely have to find another SF to back him up. Maybe the Lakers throw in Devin Ebanks or maybe the C's offer Barbosa or Wilcox to Milwaukee for Marquis Daniels (or something like that).

 

It makes them a little better for a year.  Gasol is a skilled 7 footer.  But then what?

It's a go for it now move. Pau makes us tougher in the playoffs (not emotionally or physically tougher, but a tougher out, since our frontline would potentially go from average to above average). Then look at when the contracts come off the books. It also helps us clear the decks faster.

[Brickowski]

I'd like to see Ainge somehow get Tony Wroten as a sweetner.  This hypothetical trade saves the other two teams a considerable amount of money, but not the Celtics.