@fairlee - True.
@nick - way to miss the point, which was that championship teams without Jordan included an all-star/hall of fame big man making significant contributions. I suppose that would include The Worm, a HOF PF, so even Jordan's Bulls technically come under that criteria.
Meanwhile several of these same teams won with lesser caliber point guards. The intent of this comparison was to question the merits of rebuilding around Rondo.
And btw Bosh was considered a budding star before joining the Heat and is an all star now, so what's your point?
I think the point was that Bosh is an all star big man... so the idea that the Lakers won with Gasol/Bynum and the Mavs won with Chandler (really?) but the Heat didn't is a moot point and the definition of a small sample size.
I think both sides are stretching their arguments to super thin levels.
The truth is is that championship teams have all star players at several positions and are weak in others. Teams need to be fairly well balanced on offense and defense.
Every team that has won has had one transcendent player and typically one or two very complimentary player(s) and a decent supporting cast and bench. To say that Chandler shows that Centers win championships ignores the team had Jason Kidd, Terry and that other guy who scores alot and is pretty good too, same goes for many of the other teams listed with 'dominant' centers. If anything the back and forth has shown that teams can win with serviceable players at each position, but there have to be stars at a few of them. It's the Trent Dilfer argument applied to the NBA.
To say that the Celtics would immediately be better with a great big man ignores the fact of the huge drop off from Rondo to Bradley. Of course you can't teach size, but there have been many non-dominant centers that have participated in championships. The current situation is obviously horrible, but I don't think you trade a pure PG in his prime with a ridiculously reasonable contract for anything other than one of the top Centers even though it's been proven that even greats like Howard need a decent PG to make them what they need to be...most Centers don't dominate on their own. The real problem is is that Rondo is out rebounding or very close to out rebounding our SG and SF and not ridiculously off the pace of getting as many rebounds as our PF, C. As an example from Sunday's game.. Rondo did miss several layups, but he also had a few steals and got several key offensive and defensive rebounds or kept the ball alive. How many other players are capable of having 'bad' double/double or triple/double games fairly regularly?
I think BJ Armstrong was the PG for the early Bulls Titles and was def decent. And the later Bulls had Jordan, Pippen or Kukoc handling the ball... IMO Kerr was more of a shooting guard and it's hard to argue he's a PG given he had the fifth most Assists (192) on the team behind Jordan (352), Pippen (452), Kukoc (287), and Ron Harper (208).
Just to add to this argument... look at the finals MVPs since they've been in place. Since 78-79 Tim Duncan, Shaq, Olajuwon and Abdul-Jabbar have won as a center, Nowitzki, Bryant, PIerce Wade, Jordan, Dumars, Worthy, Bird, Malone, Maxwell have won as F or SG and Parker, Billups, Isaiah, Magic, DJ have won as PGs...hardly an overwhelming case for any particular position... the only thing in common is that they're most likely all HOFers.
Edited by lars10, 06 March 2012 - 11:28 AM.