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Bobby V press conference game thread


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#151 EddieYost


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:58 PM

Valentine was trying to say, IMO, that he realized his own ignorance and/or racism after he went to Japan and found out that the players there were not "all alike." I am not a fan of the man, but I credit him for being honest about how he was wrong and how he was humbled.


I agree with this. He was being honest.

#152 HillysLastWalk

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:38 PM

Ugh. That's going to be insufferable.


When viewed in the context of the whole paragraph, as opposed to that one sentence, I took that entirely different. As in he knows people think that he thinks he's a genius, but he views himself as just a regular guy. I just think he could have been a little more articulate.

I don't know your stance on his hiring, but can see how some will try to jump on that (pre-conceived notions and all).

Edit: http://www.weei.com/...lar-human-being helps put it in context.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 01 December 2011 - 10:39 PM.


#153 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

But that is so wrong. Pleaae dont try to defend ignorance or racism.


Goddamn do you hate this man.

#154 sfip


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:28 PM

What was the question Edes asked?

Can someone please answer this for those who didn't see it?

Edit: Thank you.

Edited by sfip, 01 December 2011 - 11:40 PM.


#155 JimBoSox9


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:31 PM

Goddamn do you hate this man.


Off the top of my head, I can't think of another MLB manager in my lifetime more eminently hateable.

Of course there's a positive feeling because he said all the right things. That's what he excels at. Honeyed humblebrag to sugarcoat a disengeneous egotist.

Comparisons of his honesty and media skills to Tito are quite completely pissing on the grave of the latter.

#156 86spike


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:31 PM

Can someone please answer this for those who didn't see it?


I think it was directed at Cherington and it was "why wasn't Valentine part of the initial list of candidates you released?"

#157 SoxScout


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:33 PM

Yes, and he answered something along the lines of.. given his position at ESPN, it would have made a spectacle of the whole thing, so the first steps were done in private and then we made it public later in the process.

#158 greek_gawd_of_walks


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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:40 PM

I'm also hearing a lot of Alan Alda in Bobby's voice.

Maybe he will throw out "If it bends, it's funny; if it breaks, it's not funny" as a mantra. If the proper situation arose, I could see V using it. I wonder if he'd object to being compared to Mussolini.

Edited by greek_gawd_of_walks, 02 December 2011 - 12:33 AM.


#159 curly2

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:10 AM

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another MLB manager in my lifetime more eminently hateable.

Even long before this, when I never thought there was any way anyone other than Terry Francona would be managing the Red Sox in 2012, I always thought Buck Showalter was a much bigger tool than Valentine ever was.

Plus some people think of Ozzie Guillen as "colorfully outspoken." I've always thought of him as an asshole.

I'm sure there are others, but as someone much closer to New York than Boston geographically and who has always rooted from the Mets except for October 1986 and the ensuing five years or so until my anger subsided, I never thought Bobby V was that bad.

#160 CaptainLaddie


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:18 AM

25 is, was and will always be Tony C's number

Nope.

Ken Tatum 1971
Stan Williams 1972
Orlando Cepeda 1973
Tony Conigliaro 1975
Steve Renko 1979-80
Mark Clear 1981-85
Don Baylor 1986-87
Larry Parrish 1988
Jack Clark 1991-92
Jeff Russell 1993-94
Troy O'Leary 1995-2001
Dwight Evans 2002 (COACH)
Jeremy Giambi 2003
Ellis Burks 2004
Adam Hyzdu 2005
Mike Lowell 2006-10

#161 mauidano


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

Nope.


Tony Conigliaro 1975

Jeremy Giambi 2003



How the hell did Giambi get that number to begin with? I vote Tony C.

#162 E5 Yaz


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:37 AM

Nope.

Ken Tatum 1971
Stan Williams 1972
Orlando Cepeda 1973
Tony Conigliaro 1975
Steve Renko 1979-80
Mark Clear 1981-85
Don Baylor 1986-87
Larry Parrish 1988
Jack Clark 1991-92
Jeff Russell 1993-94
Troy O'Leary 1995-2001
Dwight Evans 2002 (COACH)
Jeremy Giambi 2003
Ellis Burks 2004
Adam Hyzdu 2005
Mike Lowell 2006-10



I don't care how many people wore it after him.

#163 AlNipper49


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:04 AM

<br />I don't care how many people wore it after him.<br />


Well damn, now that Bobby V knows that he's displeased an anonymous person on the Internet's arbitrary opinion he'll most surely tear the number from his back immediately

#164 Williams Head Case

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:40 AM



Now he's our fat asshole. So to speak.

#165 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:42 AM

Zero division titles. Remember that, folks who claim Bobby V will bring Boston a title.

Yeah, because if there's one thing Terry Francona did every year, it was win division titles.

Come on. Maybe this all goes wrong but I am looking forward to a manager who is proactive and tactically aware. Bobby V's Mets were the best challenger (excepting the 94 Expos) to the Braves in their division run in the 90s and 00s despite his teams being nowhere near as talented.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 02 December 2011 - 04:57 AM.


#166 jacklamabe65


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:10 AM

Afterward, Valentine spoke about why he chose No. 25, which once belonged to Tony Conigliaro and Mike Lowell in Boston.

“There is a group of numbers that were available,’’ said Valentine. “I don’t think 2 [his old number] was available [because of Jacoby Ellsbury], neither was 22, which was my second thought. And I knew 25 really as Tony C’s number.

“I might have been his last roommate, and I think I was. He was trying to make a little comeback when I was with the Padres, and I had such admiration for him.

“We both got beaned. And we talked about it. I never was able to really talk to someone about that, when that ball slows down right there right before the impact.


“And it’s a lousy conversation, but I was able to talk to him about it, and it was a bonding kind of thing.

“I saw that [25] was available. I called Mike Lowell. I should have called Billy [Conigliaro] and I couldn’t get his number real quickly, and I know that a lot of people wanted to retire it in his honor.

“And I would gladly put it up on that wall rather than on my back. But I think it’s a great number to wear.’’

Cafardo

Edited by jacklamabe65, 02 December 2011 - 05:19 AM.


#167 Worst Trade Evah


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:16 AM

I was surprised at the emotion he seemed to be showing, or trying to hide even. A few moments there I thought he might be close to crying. Even my wife, who really couldn't care less and was in the room reading while I was watching, looked up and thought he seemed over-come by it all.

I guess that's a good thing. On the other hand, so much for the legend of Bobby Valentine: saber-lover in the 80's, because it sounded like he didn't use Craig Wright's stuff much.

Still mixed feelings here, but on the whole liked him better after. He definitely appreciates the opportunity.

#168 bakahump

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:48 AM

I will start by saying I am ok with BV as manager. I cant see where there was a better available choice.

ok..

I was struck by how inarticulate he came off as.

And coming from me that's saying something.

Its all the more striking after having Tito here through the years.

BVs "...all the same..." comment....wow

I am willing to give the guy benefit of the doubt that he is not racist. AFAIK he has never had problems with African-American, Hispanic, Dominican, White or Asian players in the past.


That said "...all the same..." was a absolutely moronic thing to say. Hell he may have thought that all Japanese players had similar stances or motions or pitching repertoires (which Like others I tend to agree was his intended message) but you say something like "Coming from MLB I had assumed that as a very structured society with a structured developmental system that many Japanese players would have similar styles and habits. What I found was that like here each player had developed what worked for them. That's the important thing as a manager. You need to help each player work to their strengths and limit there weaknesses. Everyone is different and as a Leader its my job to understand, embrace and build on that, not try to change it."

His responses also just seemed to end with a lot of things he said at the beginning.Kinda like he runs out of steam...Q: How do you feel about the Job? "Ya know I am excited, this city, these fans and the talent on this team make it a special situation that I really want to take advantage of......I...am just excited."
Many of his answers ended like that. Tito would have slammed that home with "....as an outsider There seems to be no better city to play, manage or watch baseball in then Boston. I can promise that I will try to impress that on the players and show that in my interactions with you guys and the fans."

I think this may be the reason he mentioned a couple times that "communication need to be clear/he needs to make sure they understand what he is saying."

As someone who often agrees but comes off wrong or who has trouble framing an argument I can relate. When you say something like "...all the same..." I can see how a lot of your energy would be dedicated to then explaining your intent, that your audience understands your intentions, and that your not a racist. If you don't backtrack and explain your intent constantly your gonna be perceived as a jerk, a moron or perhaps something worse like a racist.


He seemed really excited which as mentioned is a really good thing. Also as mentioned he realized that he wasn't perfect "Relationship/communication" wise in some of his jobs and is at least aware of that. So hopefully he can improve or limit the situations he puts himself into.

Bad communication can say a lot about a person, but it doesn't mean they are a bad person or even a dumb one. It can however create a lot of brush fires that will need constant shepherding. I am hoping that for at least 2 years those distractions are kept to a minimum.

I am hopeful for BakaValentines tenure here :)

#169 wyatt55

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:05 AM

But that is so wrong. Pleaae dont try to defend ignorance or racism.

I actually believe there is a significant difference between stating that all Japanese people are the same or all Japanese players are the same. I am sure there's a cultural bias when an American player arrives in Japan that ignorant people think all American players are the same.

He's admitting he learned a lesson. Better he went from ignorance to understanding than vice versa.

#170 EddieYost


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

I will start by saying I am ok with BV as manager. I cant see where there was a better available choice.

ok..

I was struck by how inarticulate he came off as.

And coming from me that's saying something.

Its all the more striking after having Tito here through the years.

BVs "...all the same..." comment....wow

I am willing to give the guy benefit of the doubt that he is not racist. AFAIK he has never had problems with African-American, Hispanic, Dominican, White or Asian players in the past.


That said "...all the same..." was a absolutely moronic thing to say. Hell he may have thought that all Japanese players had similar stances or motions or pitching repertoires (which Like others I tend to agree was his intended message) but you say something like "Coming from MLB I had assumed that as a very structured society with a structured developmental system that many Japanese players would have similar styles and habits. What I found was that like here each player had developed what worked for them. That's the important thing as a manager. You need to help each player work to their strengths and limit there weaknesses. Everyone is different and as a Leader its my job to understand, embrace and build on that, not try to change it."

His responses also just seemed to end with a lot of things he said at the beginning.Kinda like he runs out of steam...Q: How do you feel about the Job? "Ya know I am excited, this city, these fans and the talent on this team make it a special situation that I really want to take advantage of......I...am just excited."
Many of his answers ended like that. Tito would have slammed that home with "....as an outsider There seems to be no better city to play, manage or watch baseball in then Boston. I can promise that I will try to impress that on the players and show that in my interactions with you guys and the fans."

I think this may be the reason he mentioned a couple times that "communication need to be clear/he needs to make sure they understand what he is saying."

As someone who often agrees but comes off wrong or who has trouble framing an argument I can relate. When you say something like "...all the same..." I can see how a lot of your energy would be dedicated to then explaining your intent, that your audience understands your intentions, and that your not a racist. If you don't backtrack and explain your intent constantly your gonna be perceived as a jerk, a moron or perhaps something worse like a racist.


He seemed really excited which as mentioned is a really good thing. Also as mentioned he realized that he wasn't perfect "Relationship/communication" wise in some of his jobs and is at least aware of that. So hopefully he can improve or limit the situations he puts himself into.

Bad communication can say a lot about a person, but it doesn't mean they are a bad person or even a dumb one. It can however create a lot of brush fires that will need constant shepherding. I am hoping that for at least 2 years those distractions are kept to a minimum.

I am hopeful for BakaValentines tenure here :)


I think part of the reason for some of his missteps talking yesterday has to do with the length of time that he talked for. The more you talk, the more likely you are going to say something dumb. After a while you could tell he was running out of steam and was looking for something new and interesting to say.

#171 P'tucket, rhymes with...


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:13 AM

I think part of the reason for some of his missteps talking yesterday has to do with the length of time that he talked for. The more you talk, the more likely you are going to say something dumb. After a while you could tell he was running out of steam and was looking for something new and interesting to say.


This is my main reservation about him--he just seems unable to keep a lid on himself at times. His intellect is obvious, and his emotions yesterday seemed completely authentic (and I assume that's true for him in general). He seems like a really nice guy.

But as capable as he may be at managing players, I'm less convinced of his ability to manage his emotions, and this seems to have led to some fairly significant lapses in judgment in the past (moustache and glasses, Scutaro in LF, slamming players at the Wharton talk) and clashes with others that might have been avoidable (or at least managed more appropriately behind the scenes).

As I commented upthread, I was also less than impressed with his answer to the question about his rep as a polarizing figure in yesterday's press conference--he seemed more intent on driving home the point that he has good qualities rather than acknowledging that his personality might rub some people the wrong way. He doesn't impress me as being some sort of dictatorial martinet, but as a guy whose smarts and enthusiasm get in the way of his understanding why/how someone might not agree with him about something. And I'd guess that adding to his frustration is the fact that in a lot of those cases, he's probably right and the other person is wrong, but some times "being right" doesn't count for as much as it should.

We'll see. If the Sox hired a guy who's judgment and impulse controls can match his intellect this time around, it'll be a hell of a good hire.

#172 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:25 AM

Cafardo

Awesome, so fossil Cafardo's going to pump this for the next two years.

Tony C's been gone a very, very long time and hadn't worn the uniform since 1975. Many other players have worn the number with great distinction since then, particularly O'Leary and Lowell. It's time for everyone to move on.

#173 someoneanywhere

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:08 AM

I don't know about you guys, but if it were me, and I was all jacked on nervous energy, and hyperkinetic anyway, and talking for a long time in a press conference and knowing that I had even more long talking to do once this was all done-- knowing that after being at Fenway most of the day but fully aware that at 5:30 in the afternoon my day was really just starting -- if that were me, and I had just gotten off a plane from Japan the day before . . . well, I might not say everything just right.

#174 JohntheBaptist


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:47 AM

Awesome, so fossil Cafardo's going to pump this for the next two years.

Tony C's been gone a very, very long time and hadn't worn the uniform since 1975. Many other players have worn the number with great distinction since then, particularly O'Leary and Lowell. It's time for everyone to move on.


"Move on" from what?

#175 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:53 AM

"Move on" from what?

From the idea that we need to mention Tony C every single time he number 25 comes up. It's tiresome. Cafardo and Buckley are the main media offenders in this regard.

I just turned 40 this week, so I'm officially a grumpy old man.

#176 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:03 AM

This is my main reservation about him--he just seems unable to keep a lid on himself at times.


Shit, that must be why I like him so much :)

#177 JohntheBaptist


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:04 AM

From the idea that we need to mention Tony C every single time he number 25 comes up. It's tiresome. Cafardo and Buckley are the main media offenders in this regard.

I just turned 40 this week, so I'm officially a grumpy old man.

I mean, I hear you, but I also think telling people to let go of their connection to the game isn't fair. When Ramon Martinez gets named the 52nd manager of the Red Sox and tells Cafardo Jr he's wearing Pedro's number in tribute I'd probably get all tight in the pants too.

But yeah, "only guy to wear the number" ... come on.

(Happy Birthday dude)

#178 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:06 AM

I mean, I hear you, but I also think telling people to let go of their connection to the game isn't fair. When Ramon Martinez gets named the 52nd manager of the Red Sox and tells Cafardo Jr he's wearing Pedro's number in tribute I'd probably get all tight in the pants too.

But yeah, "only guy to wear the number" ... come on.

(Happy Birthday dude)

I could understand it more if the number hadn't been issued since Tony C's injury, or something. 45 will always be Pedro because the Sox haven't issued it since he's left. But a dozen players have worn Tony C's number since 1975.

I would have respected it more had Valentine said he was wearing it honor of Yummy. :lol:

#179 jacklamabe65


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:08 AM

"I've got a lot of respect for Bobby. I've actually gotten to know him some over the years and he is as bright of a baseball mind as I've encountered. It's been on a somewhat limited basis, and I'm anxious to watch him on a more regular basis. We've got a lot of respect for him. It certainly will be full of excitement in the first few games, with just the newness factor of it and how long he's been away from the major league baseball side of things. It will be interesting to get a feel for his style and how that will affect the Red Sox."


Tampa's Andrew Friedman

Edited by jacklamabe65, 02 December 2011 - 10:09 AM.


#180 Pumpsie


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:24 AM

This is going to be a fun season, every which way. Looking forward to it.

#181 Average Reds


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:30 AM

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another MLB manager in my lifetime more eminently hateable.


I am astonished by this.

If I'm thinking of managers in my lifetime who are more eminently hateable off the top of my head, I'd come up with Buck Showalter, Mike Scioscia, Billy Martin, Tony LaRussa, Ozzie Guillen. Not all of them are bad managers, but Bobby V. isn't close to being as hateable as anyone on that list for me. Sure he's been a smug asshole at times, but Showalter exceeds his cumulative career assholery every day before breakfast.

#182 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:28 AM

I am astonished by this.

If I'm thinking of managers in my lifetime who are more eminently hateable off the top of my head, I'd come up with Buck Showalter, Mike Scioscia, Billy Martin, Tony LaRussa, Ozzie Guillen. Not all of them are bad managers, but Bobby V. isn't close to being as hateable as anyone on that list for me. Sure he's been a smug asshole at times, but Showalter exceeds his cumulative career assholery every day before breakfast.

Seriously. And while Valentine may be a smug asshole, he's not a ponderous, humorless smug asshole, which means he loses the assholery contest to LaRussa by a first-round TKO.

#183 JimBoSox9


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

Even long before this, when I never thought there was any way anyone other than Terry Francona would be managing the Red Sox in 2012, I always thought Buck Showalter was a much bigger tool than Valentine ever was.

Plus some people think of Ozzie Guillen as "colorfully outspoken." I've always thought of him as an asshole.



I am astonished by this.

If I'm thinking of managers in my lifetime who are more eminently hateable off the top of my head, I'd come up with Buck Showalter, Mike Scioscia, Billy Martin, Tony LaRussa, Ozzie Guillen. Not all of them are bad managers, but Bobby V. isn't close to being as hateable as anyone on that list for me. Sure he's been a smug asshole at times, but Showalter exceeds his cumulative career assholery every day before breakfast.


TOTAL brain fart on Showalter, he's definitely 1 on my list with Valentine 2 and Scioscia 3. Only excuse I have is being half asleep at the time.

Too young for Martin, and La Russa ranks up there with Bobby on the smarmy scale but also has much better results and (subjectively) more loyalty from players - he really may be the smartest guy in the room.

Ozzie is an interesting comparison in only the media side of things. Two guys who have a reputation for being overly honest in an un-tactful way. My own opinion (and I've followed Ozzie as closely as any non-Chicago fan) is that Guillen says truthfully and forcefully exactly what he thinks without regard for consequence. By contrast, I think Valentine has a thought-out agenda every time he opens his mouth, whether he's being un-tactfully honest, disingenuous, or reminiscing about old roommates.

You could argue that the latter denotes more intelligence and strategic thought, and is a good thing. I think it makes one a manipulative snake.

#184 bob burda

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

I am astonished by this.

If I'm thinking of managers in my lifetime who are more eminently hateable off the top of my head, I'd come up with Buck Showalter, Mike Scioscia, Billy Martin, Tony LaRussa, Ozzie Guillen. Not all of them are bad managers, but Bobby V. isn't close to being as hateable as anyone on that list for me. Sure he's been a smug asshole at times, but Showalter exceeds his cumulative career assholery every day before breakfast.

Excellent list - I'd add Piniella to it as well.

These guys are hateable for different reasons. More than the others LaRussa had this "I'm the genius lawyer cum baseball manager, don't challenge my decisions" arrogance - while some of these other guys have a strong jerky red ass component. What I'll give to the Bobby V. critics is that he combines these two elements a little, and opens himself up for both kinds of hate.

At the end, one of the things I've noticed over the years is that the fiery "McGraw/Durocher/Williams/Martin/Weaver" manager model has gone by the wayside. Maybe this style is dated, or maybe it is just hard to be authentic with it now: I think of Terry Collins as one of those guys who is a caricature of this type, not the real deal. Piniella was one of last of these (and authentic) - and I think Valentine is in this mold, too - and cleary, so does Sox management. It will be interesting to see if it can work here and in this era. Maybe this is the source of the trepidation about this hire, the feeling that it is an outdated way of handling the problem the Sox personnel presents after the 2011 meltdown.

#185 Guapos Toenails

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:53 AM

Haven't seen the PC but I think someone always asks this and the answer is "Jon Miller."


This was something that I learned recently.

#186 Pumpsie


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:23 PM

Most hateable managers mentioned in this thread:

Buck Showalter
Billy Martin
Lou Pinella
Mike Scioscia
Leo Durocher
John McGraw
Ozzie Guillen
Earl Weaver
Tommy LaSorda
Tony LaRussa
Dick Williams
Bobby Valentine

Notice one thing they have in common?

They're all quite successful. In other words, the hate is coming, in some part, because these guys are actually good at what they do and ...they're on the other team.

Nobody hates Gene Lamont or Bob Melvin or Tony Pena.

Personally, the two managers I would put at the top of any list like this are Jimy Williams and Don Zimmer. No one else comes close.

Edited by Pumpsie, 02 December 2011 - 12:24 PM.


#187 Koufax

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:41 PM

What? No hate for Grady Little?

#188 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:57 PM

Personally, the two managers I would put at the top of any list like this are Jimy Williams and Don Zimmer. No one else comes close.

And, proving your point, both men are among the most successful managers in Sox history. Nobody bothers to hate Billy Herman or Butch Hobson.

Edited by Savin Hillbilly, 02 December 2011 - 12:58 PM.


#189 Pumpsie


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:59 PM

And, proving your point, both men are among the most successful managers in Sox history. Nobody bothers to hate Billy Herman or Butch Hobson.


Right, the only caveat being they were managing MY team instead of the opposition's. And I STILL hated them.

#190 86spike


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:08 PM

What? No hate for Grady Little?


who?

#191 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:35 PM

Excellent list - I'd add Piniella to it as well.

These guys are hateable for different reasons. More than the others LaRussa had this "I'm the genius lawyer cum baseball manager, don't challenge my decisions" arrogance - while some of these other guys have a strong jerky red ass component. What I'll give to the Bobby V. critics is that he combines these two elements a little, and opens himself up for both kinds of hate.

At the end, one of the things I've noticed over the years is that the fiery "McGraw/Durocher/Williams/Martin/Weaver" manager model has gone by the wayside. Maybe this style is dated, or maybe it is just hard to be authentic with it now: I think of Terry Collins as one of those guys who is a caricature of this type, not the real deal. Piniella was one of last of these (and authentic) - and I think Valentine is in this mold, too - and cleary, so does Sox management. It will be interesting to see if it can work here and in this era. Maybe this is the source of the trepidation about this hire, the feeling that it is an outdated way of handling the problem the Sox personnel presents after the 2011 meltdown.


He had both really; TLR is a total red-ass. He seems to be crazy intense.

I have to admit, Gammons saying on Mut and Merloni that some players might have issues with Valentine made me happy. If Carl Crawford feels Bobby V is not on his side, good. Maybe the asshole can have an OBP over .300 next year.

#192 Beomoose


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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:53 PM

What? No hate for Grady Little?

Thw hate has gone out of me. I almost pity the man, almost.

#193 JMDurron

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:00 PM

Nobody bothers to hate Billy Herman or Butch Hobson.


I beg to differ.

#194 sachilles


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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:34 PM

Before this press conference, I hadn't heard Ben Cherington speak at any length publicly.
Listening to this on the radio, the start of the Press conference, Ben sounded eerily like Theo in tone and substance. I expected he learned a lot from Theo....just didn't think he'd sound exactly like him.

#195 The Allented Mr Ripley


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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:01 PM

Look, Pinky Higgins is the most hateable manager in the history of baseball, everyone else is playing for second.

#196 ccsubruce

  • 1,003 posts

Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:58 AM

I don't care how many people wore it after him.



Neither do I. #25 is Tony C's. God rest his soul.


And Ramierez should have given #24 up to Evans when Evans was a coach in '02. But Manny has no knowledge of what happened prior to his existence anyway. :buddy:

#197 Average Reds


  • SoSH Member


  • 10,503 posts

Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:55 AM

TOTAL brain fart on Showalter, he's definitely 1 on my list with Valentine 2 and Scioscia 3. Only excuse I have is being half asleep at the time.

Too young for Martin, and La Russa ranks up there with Bobby on the smarmy scale but also has much better results and (subjectively) more loyalty from players - he really may be the smartest guy in the room.

Ozzie is an interesting comparison in only the media side of things. Two guys who have a reputation for being overly honest in an un-tactful way. My own opinion (and I've followed Ozzie as closely as any non-Chicago fan) is that Guillen says truthfully and forcefully exactly what he thinks without regard for consequence. By contrast, I think Valentine has a thought-out agenda every time he opens his mouth, whether he's being un-tactfully honest, disingenuous, or reminiscing about old roommates.

You could argue that the latter denotes more intelligence and strategic thought, and is a good thing. I think it makes one a manipulative snake.


Have to say a few words about Ozzie Guillen here.

Some years ago, Guillen did about the most gutless thing I've ever seen a manager do to a young player. The context is that Ozzie was pissed that one of his players (AJ Pierzynski) had been hit twice in one game, so he brought a rookie into the game and instructed him to hit the first batter he saw. The pitcher - Sean Tracey - threw inside for two consecutive pitches but somehow missed the batter. Apparently, the kid tried to disguise his intentions by wasting the next pitch, but the batter swung at it and ground out weakly. And in the dugout, Ozzie lost his shit. He came out, removed Tracey, and spent the next few minutes berating him in the dugout before sending him to the locker room. He probably told him to gather his things and keep on walking, because he was sent down to the minors the next day. The White Sox eventually released Tracey and while he was picked up by a couple of organizations, he never played in the big leagues again.

Valentine is going to aggravate us and make us miss Tito from about day 1, but he's not close to the biggest fool out there.

#198 jacklamabe65


  • A New Frontier butt boy


  • 6,037 posts

Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:22 PM

How can you hate Earl Weaver? Earl: Where will you be in ten years? I'll be in the Hall of Fame. Bill Haller with the all-time comeback, What for Earl, fucking up last year's World Series?


Edited by jacklamabe65, 04 December 2011 - 12:25 PM.


#199 Rough Carrigan


  • reasons within Reason


  • 16,768 posts

Posted 04 December 2011 - 05:02 PM

How can you hate Earl Weaver? Earl: Where will you be in ten years? I'll be in the Hall of Fame. Bill Haller with the all-time comeback, What for Earl, fucking up last year's World Series?


You got the quote wrong. It was ". . for fucking up World Series?" not "last year's World Series". A better zing because it hits Earl for losing in '69 and '71, too.

#200 MonstahsInLeft

  • 1,190 posts

Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:13 PM

This has got to be on SoSH somewhere but I hadn't come across it yet.

Via Silverman on the Herald's Sox blog today

I'd have to agree with his quote "Sometimes words just cannot do justice…" Skip ahead to 1:35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKAg1d4c4k


This ain't gonna be boring!