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2011-2012 General NBA Discussion Thread


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#51 ElUno20

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:28 PM

And the Clipps will match..hopefully

#52 beezer

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:00 PM

Odom and a second round pick traded to the Mavs for a protected first round pick and an 8.9 M trade exception

#53 scottyno

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:38 AM

if the lakers don't get howard this offseason is looking like a total disaster, no paul no howard, and by trying to trade odom for paul they pissed him off so much they had to deal him to dallas for the trade exemption

#54 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:58 AM

David Kahn finally added a little depth to the point guard position in Minnesota by signing JJ Barea.

#55 Clears Cleaver


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:49 AM

Kahnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!

what the f?

#56 swingin val

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:02 AM

Kahnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!

what the f?

I think he is going for the 2 PG, 3 PF lineup. And when he wants a change of pace, the 3PG, 2 PF lineup.

#57 Lazy vs Crazy

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

Billups wasn't claimed off of waivers.

He'll be the starting point guard for the Heat this year, I'm sure.

#58 dolomite133


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:15 PM

Billups wasn't claimed off of waivers.

He'll be the starting point guard for the Heat this year, I'm sure.


I thought he wouldn't clear waivers until 6 p.m.?

Either way, knowing he was headed for the Heat if he cleared, why wouldn't EVERY eastern conference team put in a claim to either sign him or force him to retire?

#59 Lazy vs Crazy

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:11 PM

Looks like I'm a liar, he cot claimed by the Clippers at the last minute.

#60 dolomite133


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

Gee poor Chauncy us upset the Clippers claimed him. Now he has to play in LA with one of the most exciting teams in the league.

From Yahoo:

The Los Angeles Clippers claimed Chauncey Billups off amnesty waivers, just hours after they backed out of trade talks with the NBA for New Orleans Hornets guard Chris Paul, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Billups, 35, gives the young Clippers another veteran leader. The team also signed forward Caron Butler to a three-year, $24 million contract in free agency.

The New York Knicks had used their amnesty clause on Billups to clear salary-cap room to acquire Dallas Mavericks center Tyson Chandler. Under terms of the league’s amnesty police, any team under the salary cap can put bid on Billups. The bid will offset part of the $14.2 million the Knicks owe Billups in the final year of his contract.

More From Yahoo! Sports Staff
Free-agent buzz: Celtics near deal with West Dec 10, 2011
Free-agent buzz: Warriors pursue Jordan Dec 9, 2011

The Clippers can’t trade Billups this season.

Billups had preferred to enter free agency, which would have allowed him to sign with either the Los Angeles Lakers or Miami Heat. Billups told Yahoo! Sports on Saturday that he wanted the freedom of free agency to choose his team, and warned he could become a disruptive force if a team claimed him in the waiver process. Still, teams believed he was bluffing, that he simply didn’t have that kind of behavior in him.

“After a while, you just kind of get taken advantage of in these situations,” Billups said on Saturday. “I’ve been known as a leader – and I am a leader – but a leader can be as disruptive as he can be productive, especially when you carry a strong voice and people rally around you. This is about me now. This is about me, and teams should know that right now.”

#61 BigMike


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:17 PM

So they can't trade Billups.

Can they waive him, and if so what happens? Can anyone claim him for what the Clippers are paying or does he become a FA?

Probably not an issue today, but you never know if the Clips aren't a lot better this year then it may become an issue

#62 nighthob

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:51 PM

Odom and a second round pick traded to the Mavs for a protected first round pick and an 8.9 M trade exception


After reading this...

Kupchak & his staff have spent 14-18 hours a day (per team spokesman John Black) figuring out the new CBA, making calls, etc. etc.


I imagine that the talks went something like this...

Cuban: "So what would it take to make a deal for Odom?"
Kupcake: "I refuse to take anything from you!"
Cuban: "We can do that."
Kupcake: "DEAL!"
Cuban: "Uhhh, I think we're required to give you something. How about a protected first?"
Kupcake: "Lottery protected?"
Cuban: "No, this is much better than lottery protection, it's top 20 protected."
Kupcake: "DEAL!"
Cuban: "But you gotta throw in a second round pick to make it even."
Kupcake: "I want it lottery protected!"
Cuban: "I can live with that."

#63 scottyno

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:23 PM

report that delonte west is about to join the mavs, would put their roster at 15 with only haywood as center, unless they plan to play odom at the 5 a ton off the bench

#64 Riles335


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:42 PM

report that delonte west is about to join the mavs, would put their roster at 15 with only haywood as center, unless they plan to play odom at the 5 a ton off the bench


There has been a lot of talk that the Mavericks will be cutting ties with either Rudy Fernandez and/or Corey Brewer. I think two names that could help the Celtics dearly.

#65 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:51 PM

There has been a lot of talk that the Mavericks will be cutting ties with either Rudy Fernandez and/or Corey Brewer. I think two names that could help the Celtics dearly.


They can't afford either Fernandez or Brewer. And Delonte would have helped them more.

#66 triniSox

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:55 PM

report that delonte west is about to join the mavs, would put their roster at 15 with only haywood as center, unless they plan to play odom at the 5 a ton off the bench

Not true. Ian Mahinmi is the backup center.


There has been a lot of talk that the Mavericks will be cutting ties with either Rudy Fernandez and/or Corey Brewer. I think two names that could help the Celtics dearly.


The main talk is trading one or both of them not necessarily cutting. Likely they'll be used to get another center. Not sure the Celtics will be a match unless it's for JO

#67 Riles335


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:00 PM

They can't afford either Fernandez or Brewer. And Delonte would have helped them more.


I am not sure where your coming from with either of these points. Do you have a source to either players demand if they are waived? I wouldn't be surprised to see either player sign on for a year to a contending team if they are waived but I am not sure to any financial specifics regarding either player. Edit - As someone just pointed out, if it is in a trade situation, O'Neal for Fernandez/Brewer would be something I would be hesitant on. That would be a tough decision.

Delonte would have helped more? How? The Celtics just upgraded their back up point guard with Kenyon Dooling so I am not exactly sure where West would have fit in. Dooling is an upgrade on both ends of the floor for this team. I think had they needed him, he would have been back on a one year deal. I think that Brewer and Fernandez are much more valuable players not only to the Celtics but in general. Brewer would give this team a much needed "big" athletic wing who can defend the two. Fernadnez would give this team another "big" athletic wing who can score and run the floor. Both players would be much more valuable to this years Celtics team over Delonte West.

Edited by Riles335, 12 December 2011 - 09:01 PM.


#68 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:23 PM

Delonte is a better player than Keyon Dooling. Not even close. Delonte defends pretty well, shoots, passes and always gives you 100%. Delonte has two issues: he's injury prone (because of the reckless way he plays) and he's a litle crazy off the court. Delonte is an original. Dooling is a journeyman.

Fernandez will demand more money than the Celtics can afford. As for Brewer, he's a possibility if waived. But there are plenty of teams under the cap who can offer either player more than the minimum.

#69 Cellar-Door


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

Delonte is a better player than Keyon Dooling. Not even close. Delonte defends pretty well, shoots, passes and always gives you 100%. Delonte has two issues: he's injury prone (because of the reckless way he plays) and he's a litle crazy off the court. Delonte is an original. Dooling is a journeyman.

Fernandez will demand more money than the Celtics can afford. As for Brewer, he's a possibility if waived. But there are plenty of teams under the cap who can offer either player more than the minimum.

Delonte is not a much better player than Keyon Dooling, saying it doesn't make it true. He's a better rebounder, better shooter (moderately). However Dooling is widely considered a better defender (and the stats agree)and he turns the ball over at a lower rate, They are very similar level players, with the exception that Dooling is more of a pure point, and is more comfortable dribbling the ball. On this team, I'd much rather the backup PG keep the ball, distribute it and play good defense than light it up shooting.

#70 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:45 PM

I'd rather have a guy who can also back up the 35 year-old Ray Allen and who dives on the floor for every loose ball. Time will tell which one of us is right.

#71 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:48 PM

The correct answer is that neither would make or break this year's team in any way.

#72 Cellar-Door


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:54 PM

The correct answer is that neither would make or break this year's team in any way.

Personally I disagree, I think that if your backup PG is a guy who can't actually play PG (Delonte) you have no chance of doing anything.
Of course this team needs everything to go right anyway. They need their big 4 to stay healthy, Daniels to return to form and need contributions from both rookies.
My point was more that you can get away with Ray, Pierce, Daniels and Moore as your SGs, but you can't get away with Delonte as a PG, he simply can't play there, it isn't a coincidence that whenever he played PG they had to have Ray or Paul bring the ball up.

Edited by Cellar-Door, 12 December 2011 - 09:55 PM.


#73 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:59 PM

IMHO Delonte plays the point pretty well plus he knows Rivers' system. . He's certainly a far better passer than Jameer Nelson, with whom he played in college, and a much more efficient scorer. Let's agree to disagree on this one,
ok?

#74 DannyDarwinism

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:17 PM

He's certainly a far better passer than Jameer Nelson, with whom he played in college, and a much more efficient scorer.


Career assists per 36 minutes:

Delonte- 4.7
Nelson- 6.2

Career Assist-to-turnover ratio:

Delonte- 2.23
Nelson- 2.30

Career TS% and eFG%

Delonte- .538; .501
Nelson- .548; .513


It's not hard to look these things up, but if you have other reasons for your claim, I'm all ears. Bald assertions won't get you very far though.


Let's agree to disagree on this one.


I don't agree to that.

#75 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:30 PM

Oh please. Nelson has spent 100% of his time at the point. West is a combo guard who played with guys like LeBron and Rondo, who dominate the ball. Unfair comparison on assists. And can we talk about defense? Rebounding? Steals? Free throw shooting?

#76 Cellar-Door


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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:43 PM

Oh please. Nelson has spent 100% of his time at the point. West is a combo guard who played with guys like LeBron and Rondo, who dominate the ball. Unfair comparison on assists. And can we talk about defense? Rebounding? Steals? Free throw shooting?

No stat you can find is going to tell you Delonte is a good point guard. There is a reason he plays SG so much, he can't dribble well enough toi bring up the ball against even a league average defender at PG. He also turns the ball over far too much (his turnovers should be lower as a combo guard than as a true PG). If you want to convince anyone on the board that he's a good point guard give us some evidence beyond your own opinion. His TO% was over 15% 5 of the last 6 years, and over 17 in 4 of those. Dooling (whom the debate was originally about) has been over 15 once in the last 6, and only twice in his 11 year career, his rookie year was the only year he was over 17.

Edited by Cellar-Door, 12 December 2011 - 10:44 PM.


#77 Brickowski

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:08 PM

West's career assist-to-turnover ratio is only slightly worse than Nelson's. And it's better than Dooling's, which is barely over 2.0, although Dooling had a good year in 2010-2011 in that category.



#78 boca

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:57 AM

Kwame Brown $7m 1 year deal with Warriors. A lot of money right there.

#79 Brickowski

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:22 AM

Kwame Brown $7m 1 year deal with Warriors. A lot of money right there.


Yikes!

#80 jsinger121


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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:23 AM

Kwame Brown $7m 1 year deal with Warriors. A lot of money right there.


Didn't the NBA just go through a lockout to prevent contracts like these given out? Looks like nothing was solved.

#81 fairlee76

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:29 AM

Kwame Brown $7m 1 year deal with Warriors. A lot of money right there.

Jesus, that makes Wilcox look like an absolute steal at the mini-mid.

I don't get what people see in West. Hope he gets the help he needs and all that, but he is a combo guard who does not have the handle to be a PG, does not strike me as a plus defender against bigger 2's (that might be my eyes deceiving me), and who can be counted on to miss at least 30 games every season due to injuries or insanity.

As an aside, I am intrigued by E'Twaun Moore. Maybe not for this season but certainly going forward.

#82 Scoops Bolling

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:58 AM

Didn't the NBA just go through a lockout to prevent contracts like these given out? Looks like nothing was solved.

It's only a one year deal. If he'd signed a multi year deal at 7 million a pop...different story.

#83 Brickowski

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:03 PM

Yes, I'll concede that Wilcox may have been the best option with the available money. Let's see how hard he plays.

#84 mikeford


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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

Didn't the NBA just go through a lockout to prevent contracts like these given out? Looks like nothing was solved.

You hadn't figured that out already?

Here's what the lockout "solved": the owners got 7% of BRI back.

That's it, that's the whole list.



HARD CAP OR DEATH.

#85 Brickowski

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:30 PM

Well, teams are now required to have payrolls equal or greatger than 85% of the cap, which means a minimum team payroll of a little over 49 million. Two years from now that goes up to 90% of the cap. So teams below that threshhold may overpay.

However, the Warriors, with three expensive players, were above the threshhold, so 7 million for Kwame Brown befuddles me.

#86 Cornboy14

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 01:24 PM

A svelte Perk.

Posted Image

#87 Statman

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 02:26 PM

A svelte Perk.

Posted Image


Holy shit. Perk has been hitting the gym hard. I hope he has a great season because he played his ass off for us.

Yes, I miss the big guy.

#88 rembrat


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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:33 PM

Looks like he lived off Ramen Noodles during the lockout.

#89 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:44 PM

I love this team

KG calls out Sternface for short training camp

#90 The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

I love this team

KG calls out Sternface for short training camp

Not that I disagree, especially with KG's point about Stern, but wouldn't this abbreviated training camp situation give an advantage out-of-the-gate to a veteran team like the Celtics, whose core roster has basically remained in tact compared to last season?

#91 Cornboy14

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:44 PM

As a follow up to the Perk photo, I saw this video:
YouTube of Perk working out

Guy looks great, hope it works out for him. I wonder if the less bulk will hurt him defensively. Wish he played one season here in this kind of shape so we could have found out.

#92 beezer

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:37 PM

Nuggets with a few moves today. Nene resigned for 5/67, Rudy Fernandez and Corey Brewer acquired for a future 2nd rounder. Good moves all around and a more reasonable price for Nene than I expected

#93 scottyno

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:28 AM

I love this team

KG calls out Sternface for short training camp


probably worth mentioning that KG was one of the big guys that blew up the negotiations at one point and possibly kept the lockout going at least several weeks longer than it needed to, if they had made a deal back then they would have had a longer camp

#94 Brickowski

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

Here's an article by one of the NBA's angry old men on the worst free agent signings (so far) of the current free agency period. At least the Celtics didn't make the list.

http://blogs.hoopshy...ignings-so-far/

#95 radsoxfan


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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:20 PM

Here's an article by one of the NBA's angry old men on the worst free agent signings (so far) of the current free agency period. At least the Celtics didn't make the list.

http://blogs.hoopshy...ignings-so-far/


Kind of a dumb list if you ask me. Just a bunch of veteran minimum guys that everyone knows suck, including the teams that signed them.

Any worse FA signing list obviously should take contract into account, otherwise it's pretty meaningless.

#96 dolomite133


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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:50 AM

Former BC star and perrenial bad influence Shawn Williams signs with Mavs. He was someone I wish the Celtics had taken a chance on for his shotblocking and rebounding. Just lock him in a room with some weed until gameday.

#97 BigSoxFan


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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:45 PM

Former BC star and perrenial bad influence Shawn Williams signs with Mavs. He was someone I wish the Celtics had taken a chance on for his shotblocking and rebounding. Just lock him in a room with some weed until gameday.


Sean Williams isn't a good rebounder. His entire value, at the NBA level, is weakside defense.

#98 Brickowski

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:27 PM

LA Times is reporting that Reggie Evans will sign with the Clips.

Edited by Brickowski, 20 December 2011 - 10:27 PM.


#99 dolomite133


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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:43 PM

Nice game by Perk tonight. Eight rebounds and nine points in 20 minutes.

#100 RedOctober3829


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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:01 PM

Per @ESPNSteinLine, Rockets signed Samuel Dalembert after his contract offer from Sacramento was pulled off the table.