607 replies to this topic

[jose melendez]

According to Chris Broussard of ESPN, the Celtics would be open to trading All-Star Rajon Rondo in the right deal.

Broussard writes that sources have told him the Celtics are not actively shopping Rondo, but would consider a trade if it could help land a top scorer to help lessen the load for Paul Pierce. Rondo finished second in the NBA with 11.2 assists per game last season and was named to the league's All-Defensive First Team. He has three years and $35.8 million remaining on his contract.

So what would it take?

[Brickowski]

Chris Paul would do nicely LOL.

[The Social Chair]

Chris Paul would do nicely LOL.

I've been dreaming about a Rondo-Paul swap for 2 years. It makes sense for both teams, but I don't think the NBA-run Hornets would feel right pulling the trigger on that.

I do think the chances for landing Howard or another top tier player go up drastically if you have Paul on your team.

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Chris Paul would do nicely LOL.

One of the only semi-realistic Rondo trade ideas that I've heard that I would be in favor of.

Getting back a player who can take some of the burden off of Pierce, while also being a PG would be immense.

Still wrapping my head around the new CBA but a sign-and-trade of Baby/Green with Rondo for Paul would probably be a very competitive offer (if possible to accomplish). Could throw in the Clippers 1st round pick too.

Would Paul sign an extension with Boston? The team will look a lot different in 2012 and that uncertainty may deter Paul.

Reading about extend-and-trade deals it seems that Boston could only offer a 2-year extension (can total 3 seasons including current deal). Would Paul do that, instead of signing straight up with the Knicks for 4 years??

I've watched Paul about 20-30 times in person in each of the last four seasons. If the Celtics can grab him, they have to do it.

Edited by Jeff Van GULLY, 29 November 2011 - 04:11 PM.

[Manramsclan]

I don't understand this at all.

In my opinion, Rondo is the best thing the Celtics have going for them. When he is on his game, they can win. When he was limited by his arm injury after the Wade takedown that series was as good as over.

The last game was close, but a healthy Rondo pushes that series to the brink at the very least.

I know they have less trade value, but Allen or Pierce make more sense to me as trade candidates. Maybe to a team like OKC who needs a veteran presence for a guy like Harden?

[Reardons Beard]

The only name I can imagine this working for is Paul.

Rose, Curry, Evans, Williams, Westbrook are all locked down (I think?).

I suppose we could be talking about another position - but that means more bodies shifting.

[The Social Chair]

Rondo's value dramatically descreases after the Big 3 era is over. He is a great facilitator on a team full of Hall of Fame talent. I don't think most people believe he is a building block for next era. Chris Paul is an upgrade for this year and for next.

@johnhollinger

Seems to me most likely CP endgame is trade to Lakers, Clippers or Celtics. Worth asking: Would he do Golden St?

[KevinRiley28]

It'd have to be a pg

I'd be open to rondo and Big baby sign and trade for cp3

After this rumor I won't be shocked by anything this offseason

Really don't think we should resign green unless he's willing to take less than5 million per year

[ivanvamp]

I've been dreaming about a Rondo-Paul swap for 2 years. It makes sense for both teams, but I don't think the NBA-run Hornets would feel right pulling the trigger on that.

I do think the chances for landing Howard or another top tier player go up drastically if you have Paul on your team.

I'm on record here (and elsewhere) as saying this (Rondo - Paul) is the deal the C's should pursue. There would need to be some other parts to make the $$ work, but for Boston, they get a better PG who can also score, while for the Hornets, assuming they feel they won't be able to keep Paul after his contract is up (big, but not crazy, assumption), this is as good a deal as they're likely to get in return. With Paul gone, they'll need a quality PG. Rondo is an excellent PG who would cost a LOT less, thus freeing up $$ to go after another really good player.

It makes sense for both teams, assuming my premise about Paul leaving is correct.

[nighthob]

The only name I can imagine this working for is Paul.

Rose, Curry, Evans, Williams, Westbrook are all locked down (I think?).

Rose, Williams, and Curry are (likely) locked down. But given Evans' struggles in Sacramento and the issues that OKC has had with Westbrook & Durant, I suspect that both (meaning Evans & Westbrook, not Durant & Westbrook, just to forestall the Rondomaniacs) could be had in the right circumstances. I have doubts about Evans defensively, so I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with a trade based around Rondo & 'Reke. I have a lot more faith in Westbrook, though, and I've slowly warmed to the idea since I first saw someone propose it over the summer.

[Brickowski]

I'm sure Rondo would love being reunited with his buddy Perkins in OKC. OKC would have to throw in another player to make the salaries match. You'll never get Ibaka, but Westbrook, Nick Collision and a pick for Rondo would do it for me. Collison would be a good fit in Boston.

[lexrageorge]

Some of these trade ideas seem to me to be a repeat of the Perkins trade fiasco. You may recall we were supposed to get back a scorer to help Paul Pierce and someone who could defend LeBron (also spelling Paul Pierce); we got neither. While I do agree that Rondo is probably one of their more tradeable assets, the last thing this team needs is to trade him for a couple of complementary players to come off the bench. That doesn't help either this year or in the future.

[Riles335]

Some of these trade ideas seem to me to be a repeat of the Perkins trade fiasco. You may recall we were supposed to get back a scorer to help Paul Pierce and someone who could defend LeBron (also spelling Paul Pierce); we got neither. While I do agree that Rondo is probably one of their more tradeable assets, the last thing this team needs is to trade him for a couple of complementary players to come off the bench. That doesn't help either this year or in the future.

Disagreeing on two fronts here.

1) Rondo has a much higher value than Perkins. If you trade Rondo, you aren't trading him for a bench player or complementary player. You are trading him for another starting point guard, an elite scorer, or a dominating center.

2) We got something for Kendrick Perkins. His name is Jeff Green. Jeff Green isn't a bench player either. Jeff Green was a bench player last year because he came into a new situation, might be a bench player this year because of the three hall of famers that he is playing with, and will be a starter for this team in two years. Lets hold judgement on Jeff Green instead of saying we got neither. He came into a situation mid season to a team that was built on chemistry. It's hard for any team to gel with a newly acquired player mid season. Hold judgement.

[soxfan121]

I'm sure Rondo would love being reunited with his buddy Perkins in OKC. OKC would have to throw in another player to make the salaries match. You'll never get Ibaka, but Westbrook, Nick Collision and a pick for Rondo would do it for me. Collison would be a good fit in Boston.

I love this idea, for the long term. It could be a disaster in the short term if Westbrook doesn't kiss the rings but it could be exactly what the Celtics need in the short term and long term. Westbrook clearly wants to be an alpha-dog and won't so long as Durant is in OKC, but he could be the "man" for Boston, along with the old guys, Collison, Green, and a couple picks to build on.

This is the first scenario I've seen that addresses this year and next, not just one or the other.

[Delonte James Jr.]

Some possibilties that could work; playing around a bit with the trade machine, with a complex Rondo/Paul swap, involving other pieces:

http://games.espn.go...tradeId=ceqz54y

Hard part here is knowing how much Green (and Baby) would want, but a trade certainly is possible; Hornets get a lot of expiring contracts here, too. Sadly, I don't think this trade could work for the same reason Social Chair gave, the NBA wouldn't want this. After this, you need a 2 guard, so I'd sign J-Rich to the MLE afterwards, if it were to be accepted.

However, to be a bit more realistic, assuming the NBA would be okay with moving Paul to the C's; with Davis making MLE money, Baby+Rondo for Paul works. Since I realize that ESPN's trade machine is worthless in BBD's salary (since it uses last year's, obviously), I didn't post such an image.

Edited by Delonte James Jr., 29 November 2011 - 05:37 PM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I'm sure Rondo would love being reunited with his buddy Perkins in OKC. OKC would have to throw in another player to make the salaries match. You'll never get Ibaka, but Westbrook, Nick Collision and a pick for Rondo would do it for me. Collison would be a good fit in Boston.

I gotta say, I think that pretty significantly overvalues Rondo. Westbrook is a better player. Sure, you need to do something to make the salaries match, but there's no way Oklahoma City includes a pick.

[Riles335]

I love this idea, for the long term. It could be a disaster in the short term if Westbrook doesn't kiss the rings but it could be exactly what the Celtics need in the short term and long term. Westbrook clearly wants to be an alpha-dog and won't so long as Durant is in OKC, but he could be the "man" for Boston, along with the old guys, Collison, Green, and a couple picks to build on.

This is the first scenario I've seen that addresses this year and next, not just one or the other.

Do you view Westbrook as a player in which he can be the "man" to lead his team? I think that is very much up for debate. We view Rondo not as the alpha male to a championship team but rather someone who can lead his team as being the point guard. I don't view Westbrook as the alpha male to a championship team in the regard that he can lead his team as being the star player and to lead his team at the point guard position. I would rather take Rondo as being the better pure point guard to lead his team over Westbrook because I don't view Westbrook as either a franchise player or a true point guard.

[Reardons Beard]

I love this idea, for the long term. It could be a disaster in the short term if Westbrook doesn't kiss the rings but it could be exactly what the Celtics need in the short term and long term. Westbrook clearly wants to be an alpha-dog and won't so long as Durant is in OKC, but he could be the "man" for Boston, along with the old guys, Collison, Green, and a couple picks to build on.

This is the first scenario I've seen that addresses this year and next, not just one or the other.

I third this scenario - but am curious if Westbrook can play the kind of D Rondo brings on his A-Game.

[Sprowl]

I agree with the emerging consensus that the only Rondo deal worth doing is one for Chris Paul. I'm not even that worried if Paul won't sign an extension -- if there is one more year of the Big Three, Chris Paul has the playmaking talent to get the best out of talented veterans. Even when West, Stojakovic and Chandler were playing at their best, Paul never had such talented buttons to push.

I'm surprised that a scorer is specifically mentioned. First, Rondo can score efficiently. His jump shot got better last year, even though he stopped driving as much. If he hadn't dislocated his elbow and lost his ballhawking ability, Rondo could have taken the Celtics past the Heat. Second, Jeff Green should be a big-time scorer for the Celtics -- the team just needs to make the commitment to get him the ball in the post where he can use his length to score over his man. If Rondo is to be traded, it's because he is the only disposable talent that can bring in a star, not because the Celtics need scoring. The team is more likely to suffer in the rebounding department without Rondo.

Westbrook is a high-scoring ballhog who doesn't make his teammates better. He won't bring out the best in Allen or Pierce.

[Brickowski]

I gotta say, I think that pretty significantly overvalues Rondo. Westbrook is a better player. Sure, you need to do something to make the salaries match, but there's no way Oklahoma City includes a pick.

I'm not sure that Westbrook is a better player. He's a better scorer, but not a better defender or distributor.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I'm not sure that Westbrook is a better player. He's a better scorer, but not a better defender or distributor.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I do think it's close, and that they're comparable players, but Rondo's inability to shoot and his fear of the free throw line are only going to become more glaring as the big 3 age/retire, and are a bigger red flag for me than Westbrook's defensive shortcomings and the fact that he's not a true point guard.

[dolomite133]

Danny Ainge has coveted Chris Paul for years so no surprise if that trade is being explored.

[radsoxfan]

First of all, I think anyone should be tradable at all times. So stories like this, on the surface at least, mean nothing to me. Rondo is our only potential trade chip, so of course the Celtics have to be willing to listen to trade offers. They would be crazy not to.

Now I am a huge Rondo fan, but would have no problem with a Paul trade (assuming an extension). I think that's very unlikely unfortunately. Barring a move like that, I would be very surprised to see anything happen. He is way to valuable to this team, and I don't think Danny wants to blow it up yet.

Rondo's value dramatically descreases after the Big 3 era is over. He is a great facilitator on a team full of Hall of Fame talent.

This sentiment I have some issue with. Have people seen how bad this team is without Rondo on the floor? They can't get open looks, and they can't score. They need him pushing the pace, getting other looks in transition or the secondary break, and breaking down the defense in the halfcourt. It's been that way for 2 seasons now. Against Miami for example, Lebron and Wade can swallow up Pierce and Allen. It's no contest. WIth Rondo out there, one of them either has to guard Rondo, or at least help on him when he torches Chalmers.

The Big 3 WERE hall of fame talents (Pierce is still closest to his peak), but they are not currently. And they havent been for a couple of years. Those 3 players do have the benefit of a skill-set that ages well (the 2 best "skills" to age are size and shooting ability). They are all deadly outside shooters still, and all have good size for their position.

But this is not a team with 3 Hall of Famers and Rondo. This is a team with Rondo and 3 aging stars who have turned into elite role players that are capable of the occasional flashback game. Without Rondo, this team is finished, assuming they dont get an even better PG like Paul. Even with Rondo's well documented faults, no scoring wing is going to make up for what Rajon brings to the table.

Edited by radsoxfan, 29 November 2011 - 08:02 PM.

[dolomite133]

Geez, can you imagine if they assemble a roster of CP3, Ray, Pierce/Green, KG/Green and Gasol? (Green would likely back up the 3 and 4 in that case and would be our sixth man). Maybe have Krstic come off the bench? And can you imagine if we somehow signed Howard in 2013? Whoa!

Edited by dolomite133, 29 November 2011 - 08:10 PM.

[Brickowski]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I do think it's close, and that they're comparable players, but Rondo's inability to shoot and his fear of the free throw line are only going to become more glaring as the big 3 age/retire, and are a bigger red flag for me than Westbrook's defensive shortcomings and the fact that he's not a true point guard.

Yes, I don't mind the streaky jump shooting, but Rondo's poor free throw shooting drives me up the wall. He was under 60% last year.

[nighthob]

I'm surprised that a scorer is specifically mentioned. First, Rondo can score efficiently.

I'm not sure where this myth started, but seriously it has to end. Here are the last two years, during which time Boston's offense has become the Rondo Show.

NBA 2010 TS% .543
Rondo TS% .540

NBA 2011 TS% .541
Rondo TS% .495

He's an inefficient scorer, and that's with three good scorers around him and opponents regularly daring him to beat them by scoring the rock. He's about three years from being Antoine Walker's Minime, unless Boston can find another three elite scoring options to throw around him.

Furthermore, Boston has gone from being the 11th best offensive team during 2008 & 2009 (the Rondo Show didn't really start until about 3/5 of the way through the 2009 season) to 19th best in 2010 and 23rd last year. Thank god he's a top 10 all time point guard or they might have finished in the NBDL.

Westbrook is a high-scoring ballhog who doesn't make his teammates better. He won't bring out the best in Allen or Pierce.

Funny thing is that that "inefficient ballhog that doesn't make his teammates better" directed the fifth best offensive team in the NBA while scoring with average efficiency (.538 TS%). Is he as good a passer? No, But he's a much better scorer, and will take a pile of focus off of Pierce, Allen, and Garnett, allowing them to score more efficiently by virtue of the defensive attention he generates. He's a poor man's Derrick Rose. And that's not a bad thing (and is a better fit for what Boston needs, as Rondo is likely a better fit for OKC.

Edited by nighthob, 29 November 2011 - 09:11 PM.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Some of these trade ideas seem to me to be a repeat of the Perkins trade fiasco. You may recall we were supposed to get back a scorer to help Paul Pierce and someone who could defend LeBron (also spelling Paul Pierce); we got neither. While I do agree that Rondo is probably one of their more tradeable assets, the last thing this team needs is to trade him for a couple of complementary players to come off the bench. That doesn't help either this year or in the future.

I don't think anybody has suggested or would ever suggest they trade Rondo for complementary players, as Riles said. Perkins is a complementary player - that's why he was traded for complementary players, and it was clear from day one that nobody knew how to utilize Green, making the trade look bad when it was not. The situations aren't even remotely similar. The whole "helping out Paul Pierce" bit from the report is a weird qualifier anyways.

That said, given who is/might be available, I don't think a Rondo trade makes any sense unless it is for Chris Paul or some other godfather deal, so I won't hold my breath on this rumor. There are a lot of good point guards out there, but most of them would be sideways moves and you don't trade Rondo unless it's for a clear upgrade.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 29 November 2011 - 08:12 PM.

[radsoxfan]

I'm not sure where this myth started, but seriously it has to end. Here are the last two years, during which time Boston's offense has become the Rondo Show.

NBA 2010 TS% .543
Rondo TS% .504

NBA 2011 TS% .541
Rondo TS% .495

He's an inefficient scorer, and that's with three good scorers around him and opponents regularly daring him to beat them by scoring the rock. He's about three years from being Antoine Walker's Minime, unless Boston can find another three elite scoring options to throw around him.

First of all, Rondo's TS% was .540 in 2010. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a typo. It was .543 in 2009.

Last season he was in that same range until his Post-Perkins funk. No one was more irritated than I was his play over the month long stretch, but thats how he ended up at 50%. In general he usually ends up about league average in scoring effiency (which is clearly not his strength of course).


Edit:
All of this nighthob/Rondo talk just gave me some serious flashbacks.

You can't run from your past

So many funny and ridiculous arguments in here, but claiming O.J Mayo could be a great PG might be the most absurd. It's a tough call, a lot of competetion for that honor.

Edited by radsoxfan, 29 November 2011 - 08:23 PM.

[nighthob]

Sorry, one of the perils of dyslexia is that we occasionally type things backwards. I corrected one transposition that I saw but never looked closely at the numbers.

So many funny and ridiculous arguments in here, but claiming O.J Mayo could be a great PG might be the most absurd. It's a tough call, a lot of competetion for that honor.

I'm not sure how my thought that Mayo would shine as a roleplayer in Boston turned into "OJ Mayo could be a great PG" but I guess you're desperate to maintain your status as a legend in your own mind.

Edited by nighthob, 29 November 2011 - 09:14 PM.

[TheJodyReedExperience]

Maybe have Krstic come off the bench?

Krstic is gone gone, he signed a 2 year deal with CSKA Moscow.

http://articles.bost...endrick-perkins

We need a big man badly.

[Mike in CT]

Sam Amick/SI.com

Celtics trying to trade Rondo for Paul.

Ainge on the hunt for a 3rd team to make a deal work.

Ainge won't make deal unless Paul signs extention.

http://sportsillustr...tics/index.html

[Riles335]

Geez, can you imagine if they assemble a roster of CP3, Ray, Pierce/Green, KG/Green and Gasol? (Green would likely back up the 3 and 4 in that case and would be our sixth man). Maybe have Krstic come off the bench? And can you imagine if we somehow signed Howard in 2013? Whoa!

This would be funny if Ainge hadn't pulled off deals in the past to land Ray Allen and Kevin Garnet but he has.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Wow, real legs to this?

[SemperFidelisSox]

Ainge gets it. This is a star league. You don't rebuild, you retool. In Danny we trust.

[jaret001]

Sam Amick/SI.com

Celtics trying to trade Rondo for Paul.

Ainge on the hunt for a 3rd team to make a deal work.

Ainge won't make deal unless Paul signs extention.

http://sportsillustr...tics/index.html

Too bad old friend Kevin McHale is no longer a GM....

[Rudy Pemberton]

Hard to envision Paul agreeing to an extension if he thinks there's any chance he can end up a Knick, but good luck to Danny...can't hurt to explore.

[Mike in CT]

There is a 100% chance Paul can end up on the Knicks.

All he has to do is pass up tens of millions of dollars.

That's gotta be funny to have Melo and "Stat" encouraging CP to come to NY at a huge pay cut, after they grabbed every nickel they could.

[radsoxfan]

Hard to envision Paul agreeing to an extension if he thinks there's any chance he can end up a Knick, but good luck to Danny...can't hurt to explore.

I find it hard to imagine Paul agreeing as well, but if Danny can make it work, more power to him. Would be a fantastic move.

In theory it could hurt to explore though. Rondo hopefully won't take it personally, but he has been known to be "mercurial" to say the least. After the Perkins trade and then this, he might not be thrilled with Danny and the situation in Boston. Ideally he will be professional and not let it affect his play, but hard to predict how it will play out.

[The Social Chair]

Hard to envision Paul agreeing to an extension if he thinks there's any chance he can end up a Knick, but good luck to Danny...can't hurt to explore.

Playing with KG, Ray, and Pierce has got to be tempting though. Danny's master plan is to create a new Big 4 for this year and then use Chris Paul/Paul Pierce to recruit a new guy after KG and ray's contract expires.

[The Social Chair]

I find it hard to imagine Paul agreeing as well, but if Danny can make it work, more power to him. Would be a fantastic move.

In theory it could hurt to explore though. Rondo hopefully won't take it personally, but he has been known to be "mercurial" to say the least.

Yep, this is the guy who went into a prolonged funk because Obama made a joke about him.

[swingin val]

I'm on record here (and elsewhere) as saying this (Rondo - Paul) is the deal the C's should pursue. There would need to be some other parts to make the $$ work, but for Boston, they get a better PG who can also score, while for the Hornets, assuming they feel they won't be able to keep Paul after his contract is up (big, but not crazy, assumption), this is as good a deal as they're likely to get in return.

If I am the GM of the Hornets, there is zero chance I even consider a Big Baby, Rondo trade for Chris Paul. Zero chance.

[SpacemanzGerbil]

I'm not sure how my thought that Mayo would shine as a roleplayer in Boston turned into "OJ Mayo could be a great PG" but I guess you're desperate to maintain your status as a legend in your own mind.

Ah, now, you've always been a Mayo fetishist.

Anyway, you didn't have shit on that Hoser Awfulman guy. Fuck's sake, that guy made me want to start poisoning random water supplies in order to get him off the internet.

[Riles335]

Obviously Paul has the Celtics on his radar. It's been said that the Celtics are within his three team desires. It would be crazy of Paul to turn down 40 million dollars worth of extension to sign with the Knicks over the Celtics. The Celtics would offer him the keys to the franchise, a wealthy contract, and a team that would be almost certainly well built around him. If Paul has the chance to sign an extension with the Celtics, I think he would be crazy to pass it up. In Danny Ainge we trust. Get it done!

[Brickowski]

If I am the GM of the Hornets, there is zero chance I even consider a Big Baby, Rondo trade for Chris Paul. Zero chance.

Why? You know CP is gone anyway.. Do you want to get nothing for him, like the Cavs got for LeBron? Who is offering a better deal than that? What are the Knicks offering, Jared Jeffries? NY already traded all of their assets for Carmello and Amare.

Edited by Brickowski, 29 November 2011 - 10:14 PM.

[GBrushTWood]

Why? You know CP is gone anyway.. Do you want to get nothing for him, like the Cavs got for LeBron? Who is offering a better deal than that?

Bingo. It's not about getting equal value for Paul. It's about getting the best available offer since he's almost assuredly gonzo as soon as he's free. My only concern with obtaining Paul would be injury related. Didn't he really struggle with a knee injury in the last few years?

[swingin val]

Why? You know CP is gone anyway.. Do you want to get nothing for him, like the Cavs got for LeBron? Who is offering a better deal than that? What are the Knicks offering, Jared Jeffries? NY already traded all of their assets for Carmello and Amare.

Is NY the only other team in the league?

[funkyriddim]

Rondo may be mercurial, but the same Rondo you guys worry about taking the trade rumors personally was also the same Rondo who took the Celtics on his back and brought them triple double after triple double to game seven of the finals the year after Danny did everything but leak rumors of Lebron James sleeping with his mother to the media. Who knows how it will affect his play.

As for the Paul trade, I only think you do it if he extends. I do not think, however, that Paul is such a slam dunk to play out a max level contract. A bad knee on a point guard is not a good thing, and he did not look very healthy at the beginning of last year. That being said though, Paul + Big 3 for one last title run and going forward is worth the risk of trading Rondo.

[ElUno20]

the knicks or clipps cant offer anything close to Rondo and cp3 has brandon roy knees, hornets gm shouldn't hesitate one second.

[dolomite133]

BTW just a thought, but if Ainge pulls this deal off, there's no telling who CP3 and Pierce (who, correct me if I'm wrong, play together in the offseason) have been talking to a la Wade, Lebron and Bosh. The stars may be aligning!

[Jed Zeppelin]

Bingo. It's not about getting equal value for Paul. It's about getting the best available offer since he's almost assuredly gonzo as soon as he's free. My only concern with obtaining Paul would be injury related. Didn't he really struggle with a knee injury in the last few years?

He did only play in 45 games two seasons ago and has a potentially scary knee issue, but overall he's been pretty durable considering his size and the huge minutes he plays. I have plenty of injury concerns with Rondo too, given his style and the fact that he becomes almost worthless if he can't get to the hoop. It's a risk you'd have to take for a player like Paul.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 29 November 2011 - 10:25 PM.