303 replies to this topic

[Foulkey Reese]

Quote

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source tells me and @jonmorosi that Valentine has met with at least one #RedSox owner and will meet with others. #mlb

https://twitter.com/...!/Ken_Rosenthal

Son of a ...

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Foulkey Reese, on 17 November 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...!/Ken_Rosenthal

Son of a ...

More confirmation... http://twitter.com/G...267505956782080

Quote

@Ken_Rosenthal just beat me to the punch, but Sox ownership has reached out to Bobby Valentine, and the interest appears mutual

No, no, no, no, no, no, no!

[Rudy Pemberton]

Quote

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source tells me and @jonmorosi that Valentine has met with at least one #RedSox owner and will meet with others. #mlb

Quote

@Ken_Rosenthal just beat me to the punch, but Sox ownership has reached out to Bobby Valentine, and the interest appears mutual

Interesting. So, ownership has reached out to Valentine. He's met with at least one owner.

Yet, Cherington is in charge of the manager search.

[JohntheBaptist]

Wow. Bobby Fucking Valentine.

So if this is all true, they're completely about-facing on the experience front and now only want a guy with a name. What a mess.

From Rudy's list, I've mentioned him before, but I always liked Larry Dierker.

edit--linked to rp's list

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 17 November 2011 - 03:44 PM.

[Marbleheader]

The series of events since September 1 would have been unimaginable at the time. It just doesn't stop.

[Trautwein's Degree]

Earlier this month, Lucchino and Valentine appeared together at the Hartford Club to discuss the globalization of baseball.

As if anyone had any doubt who is wearing the pants on Yawkey Way.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Just awful. A blowhard egomaniac with a penchant for hogging the spotlight and oh yeah, an underwhelming track record of his teams.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

[dcmissle]

Even worse is what this may imply.

It has all the earmarks of a Peter Angelos/Danny Snyder move with the marquee name and neutered GM to boot. If that's the direction we're headed, just pray that Henry sells the team.

[CJChap]

People really need to chill out.

[JohntheBaptist]

If BV becomes manager via some connection with Lucky their resulting grudge/ death-match waged across all forms of media and baseball diamonds in 2-3 years will at least be entertai--

Oh, wait. We're talking about my favorite team. Crap.

[The Gray Eagle]

Rudy Pemberton, on 17 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

Interesting. So, ownership has reached out to Valentine. He's met with at least one owner.

Yet, Cherington is in charge of the manager search.

And I see why they didn't have a GM search too. No one with an impressive track record as a GM would take a job where you don't get to fill your own manager job opening, and you get the carpet yanked out from under your hiring search because one of the owners likes Bobby Fucking Valentine. So why bother even reaching out to GMs with impressive track records when the owners are going to be making all the important calls anyway? Just give a promotion to someone in-house.

If Valentine gets the job, I don't think the Red Sox could be described as a "smart" team anymore. We're a team where owners are meddling with baseball decisions and hiring a manager because the press likes his quotability.

[mikeford]

We are... Metstown.

I swear to god I'll boycott the team if this happens. I'll root for Natstown in the interim. This is the WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE.

[glennhoffmania]

I'm without speech. Every time I try to be a little optimistic after Sept. of 2011, something makes me realize why I shouldn't be.

[JimBoSox9]

CJChap, on 17 November 2011 - 03:53 PM, said:

People really need to chill out.

I've been beating that drum for a long time now, but if they actually do hire Valentine I'm off the Optimism Bandwagon. He's a bad manager, plain and simple. Not a good manager. Bad. He would be a terrible choice for nineteen different reasons. I'd rather bring Grady back, seriously.

[SeanBerry]

Gene Lamont: 65 years old
Bobby Valentine: 61 years old


In contrast, here are the ages of ex-Red Sox managers...RIGHT NOW:

Terry Francona: 52 years old
Grady Little: 61 years old
Joe Kerrigan: 57 years old
Jimy Williams: 68 years old
Kevin Kennedy: 57 years old
Butch Hobson: 60 years old
Joe Morgan: 81 years old (in 2 days)

So outside of Jimy Williams, you have to go back to Joe Morgan to find an ex-manager older than LaMont. Even Morgan was 60 in his last year as a manager of the Sox and he felt like he was a million years old. Bobby Valentine is fucking old.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

CJChap, on 17 November 2011 - 03:53 PM, said:

People really need to chill out.

A .510 career winning percentage. Exactly 1 playoff appearance in his career. He's never even won a single divisional title. He's a camera whore and attention hound who was notorious for taking all the credit for wins with the Mets, which is something that won't fly with his players in Boston. He's been out of the game for quite some time now. And he's old school and seemingly an ill fit for the modern approach the team has taken under this ownership.

He's literally the last guy they should be looking at. Trey Hillman should be higher on their radar screen than this clown. He is a bad fit in every possible way if winning games is the primary concern for the ownership.

[DLew On Roids]

mikeford, on 17 November 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

We are... Metstown.

I swear to god I'll boycott the team if this happens. I'll root for Natstown in the interim. This is the WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE.

Weren't you going to boycott the Arsenal if they sold Cesc?

Don't feel bad, I tried to boycott Skinstown.

I think this hiring would be daffy, but (a) it hasn't happened yet, so everyone should chill, it's not like he's even interviewed, and (b) wtf, it's entertainment, and I would be entertained.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 17 November 2011 - 03:59 PM.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I wonder what they like most about Bobby Valentine: his media whoring? His teams consistently underachieving? His sniping with players in the media?

Honest question: Valentine has been out of baseball (at least managing) since 2002, how does he feel about the philosophy of teams like the Red Sox? Is he going to bat Carl Crawford first because he's fast? I wonder if he would be open to some of the things that Francona used to do?

Come back Tito, all is forgiven!

[Red(s)HawksFan]

JimBoSox9, on 17 November 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

I've been beating that drum for a long time now, but if they actually do hire Valentine I'm off the Optimism Bandwagon. He's a bad manager, plain and simple. Not a good manager. Bad. He would be a terrible choice for nineteen different reasons. I'd rather bring Grady back, seriously.

I'm with you also...except maybe the part about Grady. Grady over Bobby V in dealing with the press, maybe. In the dugout...both are bad, but Grady may be slightly worse.

[FelixMantilla]

So Nick Cafardo's a pretty smart guy, huh?

[jacklamabe65]

I just threw up in my mouth.

[jsinger121]

He's better than fucking Gene Lamont.

[FL4WL3SS]

jsinger121, on 17 November 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

He's better than fucking Gene Lamont.

Who said anything about fucking Gene Lamont?

[mikeford]

DLew On Roids, on 17 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

Weren't you going to boycott the Arsenal if they sold Cesc?

Don't feel bad, I tried to boycott Skinstown.

I think this hiring would be daffy, but (a) it hasn't happened yet, so everyone should chill, it's not like he's even interviewed, and (b) wtf, it's entertainment, and I would be entertained.

No, I wanted them to sell Cesc after the post-World-Cup-Barca-Jersey-fiasco when it was apparent he was half out the door.


Oh, and let us all not forgot that THIS is probably Bobby V's enduring managerial legacy:

[Marbleheader]

FelixMantilla, on 17 November 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

So Nick Cafardo's a pretty smart guy, huh?

Or is tight with Lucky...

[SoxScout]

I can only imagine what Cherington is thinking on his flight to the DR right now. This guy has zero power.

Valentine is a joke.

[TheoShmeo]

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on 17 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

A .510 career winning percentage. Exactly 1 playoff appearance in his career. He's never even won a single divisional title. He's a camera whore and attention hound who was notorious for taking all the credit for wins with the Mets, which is something that won't fly with his players in Boston. He's been out of the game for quite some time now. And he's old school and seemingly an ill fit for the modern approach the team has taken under this ownership.

He's literally the last guy they should be looking at. Trey Hillman should be higher on their radar screen than this clown. He is a bad fit in every possible way if winning games is the primary concern for the ownership.

I'm no fan of Bobby Valentine and I think he'd be an extremely bad choice. Period.

But it's not as if Terry Francona or Joe Torre had good winning percentages before they were handed talented teams.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I'm not as down on Valentine as many, he did get some of those Mets team to overachieve before he basically wore out his welcome, and you could make a case for hiring him, I guess...it's the way that they've gone about engaging him that totally sucks. You've made your GM look foolish, and you've wasted a shitload of everyone's time if this is what you are going to do.

[JohntheBaptist]

FelixMantilla, on 17 November 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

So Nick Cafardo's a pretty smart guy, huh?

Possibly the worst part of the whole story. When Cherington quits in a fit of pique and we hire Ricciardi we'll know the fix is in.

[jsinger121]

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on 17 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

A .510 career winning percentage. Exactly 1 playoff appearance in his career. He's never even won a single divisional title. He's a camera whore and attention hound who was notorious for taking all the credit for wins with the Mets, which is something that won't fly with his players in Boston. He's been out of the game for quite some time now. And he's old school and seemingly an ill fit for the modern approach the team has taken under this ownership.

He's literally the last guy they should be looking at. Trey Hillman should be higher on their radar screen than this clown. He is a bad fit in every possible way if winning games is the primary concern for the ownership.

2 Playoff appearances. 1999 and 2000 with one trip to the World Series.

[dcmissle]

The Gray Eagle, on 17 November 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

And I see why they didn't have a GM search too. No one with an impressive track record as a GM would take a job where you don't get to fill your own manager job opening, and you get the carpet yanked out from under your hiring search because one of the owners likes Bobby Fucking Valentine. So why bother even reaching out to GMs with impressive track records when the owners are going to be making all the important calls anyway? Just give a promotion to someone in-house.

If Valentine gets the job, I don't think the Red Sox could be described as a "smart" team anymore. We're a team where owners are meddling with baseball decisions and hiring a manager because the press likes his quotability.

This -- the bolded part.

The conceit of such people knows no bounds. The most apt description I've ever heard was one made in reference to people day trading stocks in cafes a little more than 10 years ago, just before the meltdown in internet and high tech stocks: paraphrasing -- these are people who believe they can do brain surgery on weekends.

I don't mean to elevate running a baseball operation to neurosurgery. But if any of our owners believes he has the wherewithal to call shots like this -- *I'm really smart (and worth a couple of hundred million, or a billion) how hard can it be?* -- we as fans are in deep, deep trouble.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

FelixMantilla, on 17 November 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

So Nick Cafardo's a pretty smart guy, huh?

This makes me the most angry.

[jsinger121]

Quote

MikeSilvermanBB

#RedSox source: Valentine was one of first candidates Ben Cherington met with, early in this process. Lucchino has also already met w him

[Rudy Pemberton]

Quote

MikeSilvermanBB Michael Silverman
#RedSox source: Valentine was one of first candidates Ben Cherington met with, early in this process. Lucchino has also already met w him

Interesting. Either ownership is trying to make it look like Cherington is in the loop, or he really did meet with Valentine but kept it secret (or it wasn't considered an official managerial interview) for some reason.

[E5 Yaz]

FelixMantilla, on 17 November 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

So Nick Cafardo's a pretty smart guy, huh?

Smart enough to type what LL tells him to, sure

[mt8thsw9th]

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on 17 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

He ... was notorious for taking all the credit for wins with the Mets

Given how well they played above their expected W-L in 2000 and 2001, I suppose that isn't too outlandish.

Edited by mt8thsw9th, 17 November 2011 - 04:32 PM.

[MoGator71]

So we're hiring Bobby V and Omar? MetsTown is right.

[bosockboy]

I'm in the extreme minority I know, but I'm OK with it.

[BellhornsBiatch]

The Red Sox have broken my heart since the second I woke up today. Theo's the leak (almost believable. So believable, none of the Sox beat writers even gave it a sniff. Lucky for Lucky, there are Zolaks); Sveum, the ONLY guy they brought back for a 2nd interview, isn't deemed good enough or is 'too inexperienced' by ownership; THEN, we reach out to OMAR MINAYA, to HELP Cherington (maybe he'll help us get the sturdy, reliable Carlos Beltran we've been trying to get since 2002!)... Then, it comes out that Luccino has spoken to Valentine and he's now a leading candidate to manage this ballclub. I'm just waiting for the hammer at the end of the season, once Fenway's 100th year is overwith, for them to announce they're going to start plans to architect a new ball park.

[snowmanny]

JimBoSox9, on 17 November 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'd rather bring Grady back, seriously.

Amazingly, this is true. I mean, Grady was only doing like one incredibly stupid thing every three or four innings his last week as manager; I would expect worse from Valentine.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Anything to get him out of the announcer booth amiright??

[Marbleheader]

John Marzano Olympic Hero, on 17 November 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

This makes me the most angry.

Just wait until they replace Heidi with Larry Johnson....

I do have to wonder how the course of the managerial search affects Cherington's image with other GM's. Does he have any real authority?

[Corsi]

mt8thsw9th, on 17 November 2011 - 04:31 PM, said:

Given how well they played above their expected W-L in 2000 and 2001, I suppose that isn't too outlandish.

I quickly looked at seasons in which Bobby Valentine has managed all 162 (or 161 or 163 in a couple cases) games. I could look at the incomplete seasons, but this is quick and dirty and allows me to get the pythag numbers from BR, rather than backing into it, which I don't have time to do right now.

Valentine has outperformed his pythag W/L by 23 games:

[Doctor G]

When you evaluate Bobby V's performance in Queens it is a good idea to remember that the team playing in the Bronx was pretty dominant in the local media at the time. Valentine was also competing with an Atlanta Braves team with a lot more pitching talent than he had in NY. Considering that he was competing with the two dominant teams of this time period , he was an over achiever.

In a head to head 7 game playoff series between Valentine and Dale Sveum both managing the same players, I'll take Valentine every time.

Edited by Doctor G, 17 November 2011 - 05:00 PM.

[StuckOnYouk]

First four years with Mets he avg'd 92 wins. Take a look at his pitching staff the year he won 97 games. Why does he have the rep of being such a bad in-game mgr? I always thought it was the opposite.

[rembrat]

I don't know about you guys but I'm looking forward to seeing this INF pull off the wheel play. And bunting. A lot bunting.

[alannathan]

John Marzano Olympic Hero, on 17 November 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

Come back Tito, all is forgiven!

The real question is, who is forgiving whom?

[alannathan]

If I were Ben, I'd be giving Theo a call to see if he still has an opening, for reasons having nothing directly to do with BV. It has to do with ownership interfering in his ability to do his job.

Edited by alannathan, 17 November 2011 - 05:00 PM.

[high cheese]

Well, for whatever reason I grew to really like him as an announcer. His in-game analysis was often spot on and I learned some things by listening to him.

Not sure if I'm that excited about him as manager of the Sox though.

[jose melendez]

Christ, if we're looking at Valentine, we might as well be looking at Ozzie Guillen, who has all of the explosiveness, all of the narcissim, all of the insanity, but a fucking ring.