64 replies to this topic

[BigSoxFan]

I see a lot of specific college hoops threads but didn't see a catch-all thread for random thoughts. Anyways, I'm a big college hoops fan who is absolutely ecstatic about the outlook of this season. I really think this could be one of the best seasons in a decade. I've only watched a few games this year but almost all of the traditional powers seem loaded to me:

UNC is overflowing with talent and probably has the best player in the nation in Barnes. The defending champs just added a big piece in Drummond and will be a load in the paint. The Dukies added a blue chipper in Rivers and once again have great perimeter shooters to surround their pasty white frontcourt. Kentucky might have the best collection of athleticism/raw talent in the nation. Ohio State has Sullinger back. Syracuse looks to be talented as well and Melo actually looks useful this year. And then you have intriguing wild card teams like Baylor with Jones back, Kansas with their young talent, etc.

So, take your time, NBA. We'll be good until April.

[mahky bellhorn]

I just realized that when Perry Jones's suspension ends, Baylor's frontcourt will be Quincy Miller/Quincy Acy/Jones. Insane.

They must have a really sucky backcourt to not be a top 10 team w/ all that size and athleticism up front.

[page 2 protege]

Butler won their first game after losing to Evansville today against Chattanooga, Xavier looks good this year, as long as the team can stay on the court, Tu Holloway might be an underdog for the Naismith... I know hyperbole, but it's a message board after all

[Carmine Hose]

UCLA just lost their 2nd straight to open the season, this time being blown out by 20 by Middle Tennessee State.

Ben Howland has been really confoudning in the guys he's brininging into Westwood. He lost Malcolm Lee and Tyler Honeycutt early to the NBA draft last summer, but they were both 2nd round picks. You don't leave early for that. Josh Smith remains a fat load. What did he do all summer? Reeves Nelson, his best player, was suspended after the first game for attitude issues .. yeah, the team you put together sucks.

The two Juco guys he's brought in, Lazeric Jones and De'End Parker, are weak.

The most confounding thing is that Howland teams are traditionally built to defend tough and grind out games with high FG%. The last two years are the exact opposite.

[Clears Cleaver]

This Kentucky team is better than the Wall/Cousins team. Ludicrous talent and pieces that fit well. In the tourney it will be on Teague to play well in the half court but damn they have a lot of answers.

[RedOctober3829]

Clears Cleaver, on 16 November 2011 - 05:06 PM, said:

This Kentucky team is better than the Wall/Cousins team. Ludicrous talent and pieces that fit well. In the tourney it will be on Teague to play well in the half court but damn they have a lot of answers.

Defensively, they can be suffocating. Davis and Jones are so athletic and long inside and Gilchrist/Teague are very quick and great on-the-ball defenders. Both inside guys can play outside as well which is deadly against teams with bigger plodding inside players(hello, UConn). They aren't as explosive yet offensively simply because Wall was a one-man fast break but the offense will come. Darius Miller and Doron Lamb are nice complimentary players. Lamb gives you a decent 3-pt shooting threat.

That UK/UNC game on Dec. 3rd in Lexington is going to be epic.

[DukeSox]

Pitt, get your shit together before you join the real league.

[DukeSox]

UVM beats Siena 64-62 on a putback with 0.1 seconds left. Patrick Gymnasium went nuts.

http://scores.espn.g...ameId=313300261

[Clears Cleaver]

This Kentucky team is ridiculous

[RedOctober3829]

Harvard goes to 7-0 with a 7-point win at Vermont.

[mahky bellhorn]

Random fun stat line of the early season: 27.3 mpg 23.7 ppg 63% FG 56.5% 3pt 72% TS, 0 steals, 0 blocks.

http://espn.go.com/m.../doug-mcdermott

[DukeSox]

RedOctober3829, on 01 December 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

Harvard goes to 7-0 with a 7-point win at Vermont.

amazed it was that low of a margin. i figured Harvard would crush them.

[Hendu's Gait]

stay classy, Cincinnati

[Hendu's Gait]

DOWN GOES CALIPARI!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg29fan]

Big win for IU but I'm not sure that a program with multiple national titles and the tradition of IU basketball should ever have a win that results in a court-rush scenario.

[Clears Cleaver]

and that is why college basketball is so much better thyan college football

so I guess Kentucky is out of the national championship picture? Unless the computers still keep them #2 and they don't fall below #3 in the Harris poll...oh wait

Indiana was ridiculous in terms of the way they shot the ball, but the rality is they are a horrible defensive team. I think the one thing we learned today is that when Davis doesn't play, KY cannot defned the rim. They are incredibly soft up front. of course, Davi9s is not going to play most games with four fouls and Terence Jones will show up. Jones tends to disappear in big spots so maybe it will be their achilles heel. Gilchrest was great, Lamb was great and Miller gave them good minutes. Teague scored but I can't count it as he was being guarded by a guy who couldn't guard a chair. and IU never had help d. never. terrible rotations. But when you hit 7 of your last 8 threes and make so many FTs...great performance, great atmosphere

Edited by Clears Cleaver, 10 December 2011 - 07:38 PM.

[Wings]

Greg29fan, on 10 December 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

Big win for IU but I'm not sure that a program with multiple national titles and the tradition of IU basketball should ever have a win that results in a court-rush scenario.

As a long-suffering Indiana fan I see what you are saying, but considering the drought we have been through it has been a LONG time since we've been good. Very happy to be back, but a lot of work to do still of course.

[knucklecup]

Up there with Patriots super bowls, Red Sox World Series', Celtics championship, Bruins cup.



"The loudest stadium we've been to" - Penis Vitale

Pure madness...

[Hendu's Gait]

They should be higher in the polls, 18 is a little too low IMHO. Should be ahead of Pitt for sure. Gators low too (losses to the #1 and #2 teams).

[knucklecup]

Could be in for a huge let down against ND... But they're definitely a top 25 team in the country in my mind.

[Sille Skrub]

knucklecup, on 11 December 2011 - 01:20 PM, said:

Up there with Patriots super bowls, Red Sox World Series', Celtics championship, Bruins cup.

Seriously?

I know it was a big win and all, but it was a regular season game.

[RedOctober3829]

Davidson is up by 3 on Kansas right now on ESPNU with 3 minutes to go. McKillop is a hell of a coach.

[DukeSox]

I love Davidson. Get it, Wildcats.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I know nobody else will really care much about this, but in a match-up of 2 of the top 3 or so mid-majors last night, Ohio University (RPI #17) blew out Northern Iowa (RPI #2). Ohio is now 10-1, with their lone loss coming on the road at Louisville by 5. They led by 6 in that game with under 2 minutes to play and couldn't hang on.

[DrewDawg]

Upset alert on ESPNU. Undefeated #8 Mizzou, trailing with 3 minutes left against Old Dominion.

[Hendu's Gait]

That Drame kid on Quinnipiac is a pretty darn good athlete for an NEC player. The Bobcats just edge out the Terriers 59-53

[RedOctober3829]

Mike Kidd-Gilchrist has been unbelievable today. 24 pts and 19 boards. Anthony Davis has been a defensive force with 6 blocks and many more altered. This UK team will be tough to beat.

[RedOctober3829]

This is the latest from Globe editor Joe Sullivan's blog on college basketball. He is talking about how UVA is starting off well. Look at the highlighted portion. The guy is out of his mind if he thinks this is the case. ACC is a football league? He really shows his lack of knowledge.

Quote

My viewing habits: There’s no doubt Tony Bennett is a good coach. How else can you explain how his Virginia team is 13-1 and ranked 21st. Watching the Cavs beat LSU 57-52 in Baton Rouge, it’s pretty clear they’re not a talented group (I also saw them win at Oregon). They succeed with grit, smart play and tough defense. I guess they can do well in the ACC since the ACC is a football league but when it comes down to it, the talent gap will get to them.

http://www.boston.co...s_court_vi.html

[DukeSox]

Compared to what BC came from, the Big East, I would say that statement is correct in a relevant sense.

[JimBoSox9]

The first Bracketology that is actually based on meaningful data is out: http://espn.go.com/m...ll/bracketology

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Let's hear it for Justin Coleman, who certainly has the mental part of his game in order.

1/31/10

http://www.allkyhoop...-hot-lists.html

I wonder if Kobe is still concerned...

1/02/12

http://www.midmajority.com/p/2382

[canderson]

And down goes Duke! Lost at unranked Temple 78-73.

[JimBoSox9]

Kansas just choked BIGTIME in Columbia. Mizzou won by 3 and ended the game on an 11-0 run. KU missed key free throws, had two dumb fouls, and a terrible charge call by the refs as the cherry on top.

A month ago, I thought the top tier was Kentucky, Syracuse, and Kansas, with everyone else a step behind. I still think KU wins the Big XII - a motivated Thomas Robinson is the best player in the country by a relatively large margin - but they seem to be so far missing the closer mentality of previous Jayhawk editions.

[tims4wins]

After yesterday probably have to include OSU in that top tier. Still skeptical on Mizzu.

[RedOctober3829]

There's Kentucky and then everybody else. Anthony Davis is a man among boys inside and this year they actually have good wing players(MKG being the best) that can score off the dribble. If Teague could step up a bit, you'd be hard pressed to find a weakness on the team.

[BigSoxFan]

tims4wins, on 05 February 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

After yesterday probably have to include OSU in that top tier. Still skeptical on Mizzu.

Agreed. They remind me of the 2006 Villanova squad. They're going to shoot themselves out of a tournament game at some point.

[JimBoSox9]

BigSoxFan, on 05 February 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Agreed. They remind me of the 2006 Villanova squad. They're going to shoot themselves out of a tournament game at some point.

They do have good ball movement, dribble penetration, and shot selection - so I'm not overly worried about needing to shoot lights-out on jumpers to win in the Dance. But, they are absurdly thin. 7 man rotation, only two big men. If Ratliffe gets in foul trouble, they're done. Haith has done a great job recently of protecting him by going offense/defense with Moore near the end of close games.

Mizzou has now beaten two top-ten teams in Baylor and Kansas. It will be very very interesting to see what defensive adjustments those teams make in the rematches. The 4-guard lineup is very tough to defend against, but I suspect that Mizzou will be at a disadvantage the more chances an opponent gets to play against them. Kansas already figured it out in the second half on Saturday - Robinson exploded in the second half, often guarded by the much smaller English. I'd play zone every minute that Moore is in the game - he's an offensive hack and you can probably keep the guards on the perimeter in zone without a threat in the paint.

[bosockboy]

Mizzou reminds me a lot of 2005 Illinois...the key for them might be if they get the Midwest region top seed. It's in St. Louis.

[twothousandone]

Steve Lavin had a fantastic, from out of nowhere, recruiting class last year at St. John’s. ESPN ranked them #3, behind Kentucky and Duke. Lavin also coached a bunch of seniors to a pretty good season last year.

And this year, that freshman team (including Juco transfer Achiuwa, who, of course, is not a freshman. And neither was Nurideen Lindsey, who is now gone) has shown some bright spots, has a tough schedule, and they are going nowhere. They are 10-13, but 0-9 against top 20 teams, and three of those weren’t even Big East teams. They didn’t hold back on scheduling. Bad losses to Northeastern and Detroit, and losses to Villanova and South Florida in conference.

They might make some noise in the conference tournament, if they are really improving, but it surely isn’t a real successful year.

Even with Lamb and Jones (sophomores), Kentucky still has a big role for Darius Miller. Duke has three juniors getting 20 minutes, or close to it, per game. Does experience still matter in college ball? Lavin is a SSS, and far from the best coach, but last year showed he (seemingly) can coach, and he’s got a bunch of talent. Even with changes in the game, are the Fab Five still a real rarity – freshman who can be the best in college without the help of experienced teammates?

[absintheofmalaise]

For those of you who were hoops fans in the 80s and 90s, ESPNU is showing a documentary on Nolan Richardson tonight called "40 Minutes of Hell"

Quote

“It ain’t no beautiful picture,” Richardson told me when we chatted earlier this week. “[ESPN] did a great job with it, but I’m not sure it’s a rah-rah kind of tape.”

Article

[minischwab]

ESPN has launched its new Ratings Index, the BPI. It's similar to RPI, KenPom and Sagarin ratings:
Today's rankings:
http://espn.go.com/m...-index-rankings

One key difference from the other ratings is this accounts for teams missing key players due to injuries or suspensions. More details on the differences here:
http://espn.go.com/m...index-explained

As a member of the group that has created this tool, I'm curious to see what kind of reaction it draws from hoops fans and CBB insiders. Jay Bilas, and the Research and Analytics groups worked really hard to put this together for this season. Bilas is a big fan of KenPom and Sagarin and will continue to use those while using BPI as an additional evaluator.

[tims4wins]

The only problem I have with the index is that "all wins are better than losses". On the surface, it makes sense, but I think losing by 1 at Ohio State or Kentucky or Kansas or Duke means that a team is better than another team that beats Grambling State by 1 at home.

Edited by tims4wins, 12 February 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[minischwab]

tims4wins, on 12 February 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

The only problem I have with the index is that "all wins are better than losses". On the surface, it makes sense, but I think losing by 1 at Ohio State or Kentucky or Kansas or Duke means that a team is better than another team that beats Grambling State by 1 at home.

That's fair, but it's not entirely the way the system works. It adds specific weight to winning vs losing. However, that balances back out when you account for opponent, location, and pace. So, losing to #1 Kentucky by 1 is "worse" than beating the 300th ranked team by 1. But each game gets a "game score" and chances are the 1-pt loss to Kentucky would get you a score in the 90s while a 1-pt win over Grambling gets you a score in the 50s (discounting injuries and pace of play for this example). So while winning is always better than losing, losing close to a great team may still end up with a better game scoring than blowing out a bad team. Pittsburgh for example got a game score in the 70s for its loss to Syracuse, but in the 40s for a win vs SC State.

[tims4wins]

With that caveat, I like it.

The question is, is this something the committee will use?

[minischwab]

tims4wins, on 12 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

The question is, is this something the committee will use?

Any member of the selection committee is free to use any information they choose. They're only given the official NCAA RPI reports. Aside from that, they can bring whatever info they want to the room. This year, I doubt it will be used much . The hope is that in time the bracket will be put together using tools like this and KenPom and Sagarin rather than just RPI and the "eye" test.

As an aside, Pittsburgh losing today at Seton Hall dents their case, despite the adjustment for injuries.

[JimBoSox9]

I'm trying to wrap my head around Baylor having the #10 SOS and Mizzou having #87, despite neither team playing an aggressive non-conference schedule. Wichita State has played a harder schedule than Mizzou? Seems to not pass the smell test.

[minischwab]

JimBoSox9, on 16 February 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around Baylor having the #10 SOS and Mizzou having #87, despite neither team playing an aggressive non-conference schedule. Wichita State has played a harder schedule than Mizzou? Seems to not pass the smell test.

Nearly every metric has a similar disparity between Missouri and Baylor in SOS. A lot has to do with the fact that Baylor has played more games vs Top 50 teams and fewer vs sub 150 teams. Also, within conference, Baylor has faced Kansas twice and Missouri still has their game @Kansas remaining on the schedule. Missouri has 2 wins vs non-conference top 50 opponents. Baylor has 6. Those account for a lot of the difference.

[Mr. Wednesday]

JimBoSox9, on 16 February 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around Baylor having the #10 SOS and Mizzou having #87, despite neither team playing an aggressive non-conference schedule. Wichita State has played a harder schedule than Mizzou? Seems to not pass the smell test.

Missouri played four objectively awful teams (W&M, Kennesaw St, Navy, and Binghamton) and three more (Northwestern St, Niagara, and SE MO St) in the 200 to 250 range in Pomeroy's rankings. Baylor only played five teams outside the top 100 in nonconference play (seven in the top 100).

That's probably got something to do with it.

Meanwhile, Wichita St. played only one +300 team and no more +200 teams out-of-conference (adding 2xBradley at 260 and 2xSouthern Illinois at 203) in conference play. They don't have the top-end opponents that Missouri does, but they also haven't watered down the back end of the schedule nearly as much.

Edit: Oh, and it probably also doesn't help Missouri's case strength-of-schedule wise vs. Baylor that they're ranked higher than Baylor is and the two teams have played each other twice (2x15 appearing in Mizzou's schedule, 2x8 appearing in Baylor's).

Edited by Mr. Wednesday, 16 February 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Not even sure if there is a Big East hoops thread for this year, but the WVU "fuck you Big East" farewell tour continues in a pasting of Pitt on the road last night.

Very rare, obviously Pitt is less than Pitt this year.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Pasting Pitt is really more of a "fuck you ACC" than a "fuck you Big East."