2676 replies to this topic

[BigSoxFan]

He still probably should have stopped what was going on while it was happening, or he could have at least made his presence known so that the assault ended.

"Probably?!?!" This was a 10 year-old boy getting molested! He should have cracked Sandusky's skull open!

[ngruz25]

Not condoning his actions, especially in the years following the incident, but I'm guessing he was in a state of shock from witnessing the rape of a child. I wouldn't expect him to act rationally immediately after a trauma like that.

[JohntheBaptist]

What would you do if you saw your father raping some random 10 year old?

If I saw my father raping a 10 year old boy I'd beat him within an inch of his life. Arguably worse than I would a stranger.

And yeah, secure the safety of the kid. I can't stop thinking of that--the kid is getting raped, sees potential help arrive and then disappear, only to be left to survive more of it with no one else to help him.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 08 November 2011 - 03:19 PM.

[canderson]

Sandusky's hearing postponed from tomorrow to December 7

I still don't exactly know why they have let Sandusky out on unsecured bail given the charges. He is charged as a child predator, we really let them out for nothing? That's a bit troubling.

He had to give up his passport and all, but still it doesn't sit right.

Edited by canderson, 08 November 2011 - 03:26 PM.

[JBill]

Not condoning his actions, especially in the years following the incident, but I'm guessing he was in a state of shock from witnessing the rape of a child. I wouldn't expect him to act rationally immediately after a trauma like that.

If you read the grand jury report, they also detailed the reaction of a janitor, who witnessed a separate shower incident with another victim. How he, a war vet, was sobbing and saying "it was the worst thing I've ever seen" his co-workers thought he was going to have a heart attack the man was so distraught.

He and his co-workers also stayed quiet in the aftermath, for fear of their jobs.

[Saturnian]

While McQueary failed on a basic human level, I do find it easier to understand what happened with him than with the others involved. Think about the cult of personality that even the average college football builds, and then add that this is JOE PATERNO, a man elevated to sainthood in State College. Between playing for him and working for him, McQueary has worshiped at the altar of JoePa for 10 years. Add on to that, he also likely had a lot of respect for Sandusky, and knew how close Sandusky and Paterno were. I can understand why, when faced with something horrific that must have shattered his reality, he didn't take matters into his own hands. Crawling into his head - he went to who he thought was the wisest and most powerful man in this situation, told him everything, and when nothing came of it, trusted that the right decision had been made.

I hope McQueary understands his level of action was woefully inadequate, he deserves a ton of blame and no forgiveness, but I can also sympathize with the pressures and fears a lowly graduate assistant must have had in a situation that involved Paterno and Sandusky like this.

I was in a few classes with him; never really interacted with him beyond passing him a handout, but he seemed like a decent guy, not as entitled as a lot of athletes can come off. It was much more than 10 years, he was born in State College. His first memory is likely going to a football game with his dad, being taught how great Paterno was, how Sandusky had been the man that shaped Ham, Millen and Conlan into the players they became. He was 11 years old and watched those men lead their team to a national championship. He probably decided that he was going to be the starting QB for that team when he was 8, and then it actually happened. He wasn't good enough to play professionally, so he returned to his hometown and mentor, and set out to be a coach. So he's working for and with these two men who have been held up as role models. And then one day all hell breaks loose. Anyone here could say what they think they would do in that situation, but it's pretty damned hard to KNOW how that would play out, and that's assuming the attacker is someone you don't know. Imagine that the attacker is your dad's hero, and someone that you've looked up to all your life. I am in no way excusing or sympathizing with McQueary's actions, I don't think he went nearly far enough to make sure that no one else was attacked. I just can't think of a scenario where it would be more difficult to do the right thing than the situation he found himself in. He went to his dad, who told him to go to Paterno, who told him he'd take care of it. Paterno did take it to Curley. I will never understand why it stopped there, why once it stopped there Paterno or McQuesry didn't take it upon themselves to put an end to it.

[HomeBrew1901]

Sandusky's hearing postponed from tomorrow to December 7

I still don't exactly know why they have let Sandusky out on unsecured bail given the charges. He is charged as a child predator, we really let them out for nothing? That's a bit troubling.

We had a pedophile living right next door from me and my family from Mid-June to October 24th because his trial date was postponed. The evidence was so strong the scumbag was convicted after an 8 hour trial with a 20 minute verdict, yet he was let out on Personal Recognizance because they moved his trial date.

He only had a public defender and I'm sure Sandusky's attorney is much better and got him out.

Hopefully this gives him time to hang himself or put a bullet in his head.

[Shelterdog]

Not condoning his actions, especially in the years following the incident, but I'm guessing he was in a state of shock from witnessing the rape of a child. I wouldn't expect him to act rationally immediately after a trauma like that.

While we all know how we think we'd act in that situation, only the few people who are unlucky enough to have seen awful things like this know how they'd actually act.

[HomeBrew1901]

I was in a few classes with him; never really interacted with him beyond passing him a handout, but he seemed like a decent guy, not as entitled as a lot of athletes can come off. It was much more than 10 years, he was born in State College. His first memory is likely going to a football game with his dad, being taught how great Paterno was, how Sandusky had been the man that shaped Ham, Millen and Conlan into the players they became. He was 11 years old and watched those men lead their team to a national championship. He probably decided that he was going to be the starting QB for that team when he was 8, and then it actually happened. He wasn't good enough to play professionally, so he returned to his hometown and mentor, and set out to be a coach. So he's working for and with these two men who have been held up as role models. And then one day all hell breaks loose. Anyone here could say what they think they would do in that situation, but it's pretty damned hard to KNOW how that would play out, and that's assuming the attacker is someone you don't know. Imagine that the attacker is your dad's hero, and someone that you've looked up to all your life. I am in no way excusing or sympathizing with McQueary's actions, I don't think he went nearly far enough to make sure that no one else was attacked. I just can't think of a scenario where it would be more difficult to do the right thing than the situation he found himself in. He went to his dad, who told him to go to Paterno, who told him he'd take care of it. Paterno did take it to Curley. I will never understand why it stopped there, why once it stopped there Paterno or McQuesry didn't take it upon themselves to put an end to it.

Really, because you sure fooled me.

The amount of people stating they don't condone what McQueary did are sure posting quite a few sentences defending it.

Edit: I was going to go so far as to say that I could understand how he reacted in the in the immediate aftermath, but that it is indefensible that he never did anything years later until the Grand Jury questioned him. But I keep getting the mental image of a 10 year old being raped anally and I have absolutely no sympathy or empathy for McQuery just because he saw he fucking hero raping a little boy and doing nothing about it.

But... but... I told the coach. Fuck him, he did nothing and is just as guilty as the rest of them.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 08 November 2011 - 03:40 PM.

[njexpress9]

First, let's be clear: The GA obviously did not act in the way that I hope any of us would in similar circumstances, which is to immediately go to the cops.

But, knowing that, I think it's fair to ask why. And, I think for the observer, this is a classic FAE problem, where it's easy to dismiss the enormous social and personal implications of being the one who goes to the cops with this information vs. being the guy who tells the most important person in the football program.

Does it excuse his actions? No. But I do think it explains them to some degree.

And I don't think this is a one-off response either. Why did none of the hundreds (thousands? more?) of people in the Catholic Church who knew about institutional sex crimes not go to the cops? Is it because they're all horrible, despicable, degenerate people?

I think the point is, it's easy to sit here and say, "If I was in a similar scenario, I would immediately beat the crap out of the guy and drag him down to the police station." And yet, when people (lots of people!) are in this scenario, they rarely do this. Why?

This is an excellent post.

The comparison to the Catholic Church is a good one. Why..No.. HOW do people keep quiet about something so terrible? Is it the fear of reprisal?

I think it took some courage for a lowly GA to come forward. If the AD reports this to the police the process starts and Sandusky is punished. Instead it is internally investigated and covered up... everyone hoped it was in the past but no such luck. Now everybody burns. And to make things even worse, Sandusky probably added to his list.

It is very easy to say "I'd kill the bastard" but doing it is another story. Reminds me of the story about Kitty Genovese... raped and murdered in the alley behind her Queens apartment. Around 30 or so people in the apartment building heard her screaming for help and nobody does a thing.

[JohntheBaptist]

I was in a few classes with him; never really interacted with him beyond passing him a handout, but he seemed like a decent guy, not as entitled as a lot of athletes can come off. It was much more than 10 years, he was born in State College. His first memory is likely going to a football game with his dad, being taught how great Paterno was, how Sandusky had been the man that shaped Ham, Millen and Conlan into the players they became. He was 11 years old and watched those men lead their team to a national championship. He probably decided that he was going to be the starting QB for that team when he was 8, and then it actually happened. He wasn't good enough to play professionally, so he returned to his hometown and mentor, and set out to be a coach. So he's working for and with these two men who have been held up as role models. And then one day all hell breaks loose. Anyone here could say what they think they would do in that situation, but it's pretty damned hard to KNOW how that would play out, and that's assuming the attacker is someone you don't know. Imagine that the attacker is your dad's hero, and someone that you've looked up to all your life. I am in no way excusing or sympathizing with McQueary's actions, I don't think he went nearly far enough to make sure that no one else was attacked. I just can't think of a scenario where it would be more difficult to do the right thing than the situation he found himself in. He went to his dad, who told him to go to Paterno, who told him he'd take care of it. Paterno did take it to Curley. I will never understand why it stopped there, why once it stopped there Paterno or McQuesry didn't take it upon themselves to put an end to it.

He told Paterno about it and then saw himself gainfully employed for a decade with no material justice or repercussions that entire time for the man involved. If you want to give his first hour or so with the info something of a pass, whatever.

But I'm sorry, I don't care where you grew up or who your heroes are. You see one of them raping a kid and the other covering it up, you don't show up to work with them from that point forward saying largely nothing.

I just can't think of a scenario where it would be more difficult to do the right thing than the situation he found himself in.

Just because it was hard or difficult doesn't mean you don't do what's right and doesn't mean it kinda sorta might be understandable when you don't, at least in an instance like this.

[Marciano490]

While we all know how we think we'd act in that situation, only the few people who are unlucky enough to have seen awful things like this know how they'd actually act.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. While I'm guessing nobody here has been in the exact same situation, there are people here who have lived on this filthy planet long enough to have had similar experiences from which we can extrapolate how we'd act upon encountering child rape. This moral relativism is exhausting and misplaced; if you don't know how you'd act seeing a colleague rape a child, then that's something you need to confront on your own. Some of us know exactly what we'd do.

[JohntheBaptist]

While we all know how we think we'd act in that situation, only the few people who are unlucky enough to have seen awful things like this know how they'd actually act.

This is true. And every single person that found themselves reacting like McQueary reacted would be wrong and part of the problem.

[Manny ActaFool]

God forbid I or anyone I know ever witnesses anything remotely close to this, but if so I hope to hell I have the opposite reaction that anyone named in that indictment had. I get angrier and angrier the more I follow this, and PSU better wake the f*ck up and get the guillotine out. Stretching it on any further is doing a disservice to those around them that shouldn't be subjected to it (current players, family, all of Central Pennsylvania?), and is undoubtedly just increasing the angst and trauma of the 8+ victims.

In a world full of cyclical news and mass hysteria, this one is still eons away from peaking. I hope those with the greatest power right now are quickly coming to this realization. Based on how they've handled this so far, I can only assume they are not.

[RingoOSU]

I don't know what I would do. I know what I wouldn't do. Accept a job working for those scumbuckets.

[HomeBrew1901]

I don't know what I would do. I know what I wouldn't do. Accept a job working for those scumbuckets.

But... but... he told the coach.

edit: I'm with Mannyactafool, the more I think and read about this, the more pissed off I get. Especially with posters trying to stick up for McQuery and Paterno.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 08 November 2011 - 03:45 PM.

[Shelterdog]

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. While I'm guessing nobody here has been in the exact same situation, there are people here who have lived on this filthy planet long enough to have had similar experiences from which we can extrapolate how we'd act upon encountering child rape. This moral relativism is exhausting and misplaced; if you don't know how you'd act seeing a colleague rape a child, then that's something you need to confront on your own. Some of us know exactly what we'd do.

You don't understand what moral relativism is; nothing I said was close to a morally relativitic stance. Don't hurt your brain using big concepts you don't understand.

Of course he should have stopped it; of course he should have gone to the cops; of course he shouldn't have worked for them for ten years.

And unless you've had the misfortune of seeing a lot of pretty bad stuff in life, you're deluding yourself with your tough guy act. The number of people who witness domestic violence and do nothing is simply staggering.

Edited by Shelterdog, 08 November 2011 - 03:51 PM.

[drtooth]

I know the uproar in this thread about the GA and Paterno (understandably so), but how does Spanier seem to be let off here? He is ultimately responsible for the goings on at PSU and an employee of HIS university up until 1999 was accused of these crimes (some of the accusations go back to his time as DC) and was still given emeritus status, an office and phone. This got to his desk and he didn't exactly kill himself to get to the bottom of what was happening on his campus. He seems (IMHO) to have been more concerned with protecting the reputation of the university (and his own as well)than with taking care of this. He is at least as culpable as Paterno if not more so. All he has done since this came about is to defend the honor of the two employees (one the AD) against perjury charges and cancel a press conference. He did nothing while Sandusky was at the campus up to a week before this came out, while knowing about the upcoming charges. He should be terminated immediately or resign. He has as much blood on his hands for as anyone, with the exception of Sandusky. He could have potentially taken care of this 10-15 years ago and spared several victims the ordeal they have to live with for the rest of their lives.

[Jack Sox]

I know next to nothing about NCAA regulations or the NCAA in general, but could this sequence of events possibly trigger the death penalty to the program? I guess it wouldn't be fair to punish the athletes, but something drastic needs to happen here. Joe Paterno and a bunch of University higher ups losing their jobs just doesn't cut it.

We're talking about 13 years from the initial allegation where the many within the institution largely - I don't necessarily want to call it a cover up - looked the other way.

[BigSoxFan]

You don't understand what moral relativism is; nothing I said was close to a morally relativitic stance. Don't hurt your brain using big concepts you don't understand.

Of course he should have stopped it; of course he should have gone to the cops; of course he shouldn't have worked for them for ten years.

And unless you've had the misfortune of seeing a lot of pretty bad stuff in life, you're deluding yourself with your tough guy act. The number of people who witness domestic violence and do nothing is simply staggering.

Wait, so are you talking about McQueary's actions in the moment or the days/weeks/months following what he saw? Because walking in on something like that certainly would be traumatic, especially when it's the last thing you'd expect, but he had plenty of time to follow up and make sure Sandusky was outed as the freak that he is. And he did very little.

You don't need to be a "tough guy" to think you'd act differently in his shoes.

[Saturnian]

Really, because you sure fooled me.

The amount of people stating they don't condone what McQueary did are sure posting quite a few sentences defending it.

There is no defending what he did. There is only one right thing to do in that instance, and that is to make sure that the attacker is stopped. I can't imagine the shock he must have felt, and the fact that he went to his dad, and then Paterno instead of directly to the police is understandable. I can even imagine believing Paterno when he said he was taking care of it. but after 9 days, much less 9 years, I would hope that I would have the stomach to risk my career and be seen as the person that brought down the institution that is PSU Football and the legacy of someone I grew up admiring to do what's right. To him I am sure those factors made it more difficult to take appropriate action. And I hope that he thinks about the fact that he didn't each and every day.

Shelterdog
While we all know how we think we'd act in that situation, only the few people who are unlucky enough to have seen awful things like this know how they'd actually act.

The point I was trying to make was this. Everything McQueary thought he knew exploded that day, and then in the way it has been handled since. He did not do enough to put an end to it, and he absolutely needs to answer for that.

Edit: tried to clarify

Edited by Saturnian, 08 November 2011 - 04:05 PM.

[jsinger121]

I know next to nothing about NCAA regulations or the NCAA in general, but could this sequence of events possibly trigger the death penalty to the program? I guess it wouldn't be fair to punish the athletes, but something drastic needs to happen here. Joe Paterno and a bunch of University higher ups losing their jobs just doesn't cut it.

We're talking about 13 years from the initial allegation where the many within the institution largely - I don't necessarily want to call it a cover up - looked the other way.

This was talked about earlier in the thread but someone posted that they should get the sanctions Baylor got for the whole Basketball murder scandal.

[JBill]

I don't know how so many people knew and did nothing. From the people who actually witnessed the assaults, you have a janitor and a grad assistant, two completely different backgrounds and ages, one a guy who knew Sandusky and the other a stranger, and they both had the same reaction in the immediate aftermath. Don't stop it, become emotionally distraught, tell your superiors, and then shut up about it.

It's accepting a promotion and then working/seeing the monster around for years afterwards, seeing him with children, that I cannot comprehend.

And the amount of people who didn't see but must have known what was going on and did nothing...the prosecutor in '98, obviously Paterno, the administrarion, what about Sandusky's wife even...truly incomprehensible.

[RingoOSU]

I don't think a 10 year show cause penalty will do much to Paterno...

[Marciano490]

You don't understand what moral relativism is; nothing I said was close to a morally relativitic stance. Don't hurt your brain using big concepts you don't understand.

Of course he should have stopped it; of course he should have gone to the cops; of course he shouldn't have worked for them for ten years.

And unless you've had the misfortune of seeing a lot of pretty bad stuff in life, you're deluding yourself with your tough guy act. The number of people who witness domestic violence and do nothing is simply staggering.

My use of moral relativism here is correct, look it up.

I'm not putting on a tough guy act, though I'm fairly confident in my tough guy bona fides. The GA could've yelled stop I'm calling the police then fled. I wouldn't call him a 'tough guy', but he would have at least done something to stop the ongonig child rape that he instead allowed to continue.

What bad stuff would one have had to have seen in order to feel confident that they would stop an elderly, unarmed man from raping a child. What danger would the GA have been in? Being bear-hugged by a naked old man? Getting jizzed on? I said above, this wasn't a rape at gunpoint. I think that anybody here who has ever gone out of their way to break up a violent confronation - including me - can know what they would've done in this situation.

Your cowardice is regrettable, not only because it leads to ad hominem attacks, but because the next time a helpless child might need an adult's intervention, that adult could be you.

[Shelterdog]

Wait, so are you talking about McQueary's actions in the moment or the days/weeks/months following what he saw? Because walking in on something like that certainly would be traumatic, especially when it's the last thing you'd expect, but he had plenty of time to follow up and make sure Sandusky was outed as the freak that he is. And he did very little.

You don't need to be a "tough guy" to think you'd act differently in his shoes.

Just his actions in the moment. There's no excuse for his actions in the following days, weeks and months.

[Manny ActaFool]

Joe Paterno's support among the Penn State board of trustees was described as "eroding" Tuesday, threatening to end the 84-year-old coach's career amid a child sex-abuse scandal involving a former assistant and one-time heir apparent.

A person familiar with the trustees' discussions and who used the term "eroding" said it was unclear what the consequences for Paterno will be and that a decision could be rendered before the board meets on Friday.

Penn State President Graham Spanier also has lost support among the Board of Trustees, the person said, but again, how much was unclear.

Paterno's son, Scott, said his father hasn't spoken with Penn State officials or trustees about stepping down. Addressing reporters outside his father's house, he said Joe Paterno plans to not only coach in Saturday's game against Nebraska, but for the long haul.

"No one has asked Joe to resign," Scott Paterno told The Associated Press in a text message.

http://abcnews.go.co...roding-14908029

Posted a few minutes ago.

[JBill]

http://abcnews.go.co...roding-14908029

Posted a few minutes ago.

The governor has to do something sooner than Friday I think, if these bozos can't take care of it.

Edited by JBill, 08 November 2011 - 04:03 PM.

[Shelterdog]

My use of moral relativism here is correct, look it up.

No it's not. I'm not suggesting there's no right and wrong here; there's right, there's wrong and the GA was wrong. I'm saying sometimes people do the wrong thing in awful or shocking situations.

But obviously not you.

[pedros hairstylist]

Not condoning his actions, especially in the years following the incident, but I'm guessing he was in a state of shock from witnessing the rape of a child. I wouldn't expect him to act rationally immediately after a trauma like that.

Shock and trauma are not the same thing. I can see the guy being shocked, but that should have lasted about 10 seconds before instincts kick in and you take action. The fact that this guy saw this happening, did nothing to stop it, went home and consulted with people other than police and then accepted a promotion with the person most likely to have rectified the situation but who did not is a disgrace.

I didnt know until today that the grad assistant in the grand jury testimony is a guy who still has a job with Penn State. That is all kinds of fucked. He's an accessory after the fact in my book.

[JimBoSox9]

Really, because you sure fooled me.

The amount of people stating they don't condone what McQueary did are sure posting quite a few sentences defending it.

First of all, there's a helluva difference between saying you understand someone's actions, and defending them. Second, God Forbid someone post a moderate opinion that acknowledges real-life pressures, instead of shouting as loud as possible that every single person who works for Penn State is 100% equally the spawn of Satan.


McQueary : Sandusky : Paterno

Priest : Cardinal : Pope

White House Staffer : Biden : Obama

extreme examples? Absolutely, but I bet McQueary would consider them accurate comps.

Maybe everyone here who says they'd immediately go Rambo in his shoes is right. I hope so. I hope to hell I would too. History shows that most of us are full of shit and would do whatever the figures of authority and prestige told us to do. Then we'd maybe be convicted of crimes, see our futures wrecked, and kill ourselves. We'd deserve it - but I'd understand it too. The road to Hell is paved and all that.

On the other hand, I know almost nothing about McQueary. He could laugh himself to sleep watching snuff films for all I know, and the whole narrative of being struck dumb by the fear and awe of St. Joe is garbage. In the absence of more facts, I just find it hard to view him with the same amount of blame as the trio of culpable fools who actually wielded power at Penn State and neglected to act.

[Marciano490]

No it's not. I'm not suggesting there's no right and wrong here; there's right, there's wrong and the GA was wrong. I'm saying sometimes people do the wrong thing in awful or shocking situations.

But obviously not you.

Apologies, then - I misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying we couldn't say the GA was wrong because we don't know how we'd act in that situation.

I often do the wrong thing, sometimes in awful or shocking ways, but this is one field in which I have done right, and know I would continue to do so. I appreciate your point though, you never know till you know.

[Wings]

Just throwing this out there, not a justification or an excuse at all, but perhaps McQueary was thinking about going to the police after nothing seemed to happen, but then he begins to think that he could be in worse trouble than before--because they might ask why he didn't contact them to begin with, and then he is confronted with the fact that he might be bringing down Paterno/PSU.

But then the longer he delayed the worse it got...because most people are questioning how he could do nothing. Awfully hard to do months, let alone years, after witnessing it and doing very little up front.

edit: formatting

Edited by Wings, 08 November 2011 - 04:15 PM.

[Alternate34]

So, I started grad school here at Penn State this year and this comes out.

All those involved in the athletic department hopefully will be thrown out. I think that the trustees have called for Joe Paterno's resignation already.

How do these things happen? Certainly, there is some truth that this is what happens when you try to protect an institution over people. Despite the evidence that cover ups just don't work when shit like this happens, the evidence is legion both for the shit that happened and that cover ups in these instances will fail, higher ups still try to cover this shit up. Not only is the failure of morality abhorrent, the failure of human reason is mind boggling. Institutional protection is certainly one factor in this, but institutions are formed in some degree to combat this as well, as people will report things and combat things that would ultimately sully the institution.

Part of it, as Rev points out, is that sex crimes generally create zones of weirdness around heinousness. I can guess as to why. Some of it is sexual taboo, some of it is sexuality as being something utterly private. The root for why these crimes are so destructive and pernicious is also the reason people avoid reporting them.

However, I think a large part of this is that people were protecting a person. Sandusky is a legend here. They have an ice cream named after him in the creamery. I don't have this attachment, but I was quick to find this out. Not only is Sandusky a legend, but he "earned" that status for more than his football coaching. His work with children, now exposed as an avenue to satisfy his fetishes, was a primary reason for this. NOT ONLY was he a legend beyond all of his work on the football field, his lengthy tenure at Penn State earned him many personal friends.

That seems to be the primary reason for the moral repugnance of all involved. Joe Paterno knew Sandusky for about 40 years. McQueary was indoctrinated in the Penn State ethos. Sandusky wasn't just a co-worker. He wasn't just a long time boss and mentor. They thought they knew him, had good reason to think they thought they knew him, and they thought he was a great, awesome guy. The cognitive dissonance between knowing this and being told or shown that he rapes children is incalculable, inconceivable. I haven't lived long enough to have a friend that long. I keep trying to picture being told that one of my friends since I have been 5 years old (I have one) is a sexual predator in the most odious sense. Knowing that calling the police could destroy him even if acquitted. Knowing a guy since I was young. Knowing that I (not that I have done it, Joe Paterno's PoV here) put him in the position to molest and violate young, disadvantaged boys. I would probably still turn him in, but that is the hypothetical to ask. Not would you turn in a coworker when told by a third party. For McQueary, it's not would you turn in some stranger raping a child in the shower or beat the living shit out of him, it's would you turn in someone who you have known as a mentor and supporter to many of your teammates and potentially yourself.

This is not meant to be apologetic of Joe Paterno, but more an explanation about how this happens. Morally repugnant shit happens and rarely is the most egregious of moral failings a simple explanation.

[Jnai]

Fair enough (deleted)

Edited by Jnai, 08 November 2011 - 04:24 PM.

[JimBoSox9]

No harm, no foul

Edited by JimBoSox9, 08 November 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[sachmoney]

BuckeyesGirl33 Jody it was just released on radio that McQueary was let go, is no loner with Penn State...Bull and Fox confirmed it

This was retweeted by a Buckeye reporter.

[Average Reds]

I know next to nothing about NCAA regulations or the NCAA in general, but could this sequence of events possibly trigger the death penalty to the program? I guess it wouldn't be fair to punish the athletes, but something drastic needs to happen here. Joe Paterno and a bunch of University higher ups losing their jobs just doesn't cut it.

We're talking about 13 years from the initial allegation where the many within the institution largely - I don't necessarily want to call it a cover up - looked the other way.

Unless there are underlying NCAA violations that we have not heard about, my guess is that the NCAA will allow the law to handle things. Which is appropriate.

[HomeBrew1901]

The point I was trying to make was this. Everything McQueary thought he knew exploded that day, and then in the way it has been handled since. He did not do enough to put an end to it, and he absolutely needs to answer for that.

Edit: tried to clarify

Seriously, thanks for the clarification. I was trying to figure out where you were coming from and read it more as a defense of why he didn't do anything.

[Manny ActaFool]

This was retweeted by a Buckeye reporter.

LET GO?!?! Interested to see where this goes... I could imagine him stepping down, but there's no way they would be dumb enough to fire the closest thing this program has to a whistleblower...

[RingoOSU]

Whistleblower seems like the wrong term for a guy who turned a incident into a career.

[DLew On Roids]

Giving a penniless football player a bus ticket home for Christmas: NCAA violation
Overlooking child rape in the football team showers: Not an NCAA violation

[jsinger121]

Chris Fowler says that McQueary is away on a recruiting trip.

http://timesofeurope...ecruiting-trip/

[sachmoney]

LET GO?!?! Interested to see where this goes... I could imagine him stepping down, but there's no way they would be dumb enough to fire the closest thing this program has to a whistleblower...

I've seen conflicting reports on Twitter. McQueary's father says he's still with the team. Chris Fowler has said that he is not with the team.

SEE POST ABOVE.

Edited by sachmoney, 08 November 2011 - 04:32 PM.

[Manny ActaFool]

Whistleblower seems like the wrong term for a guy who turned a incident into a career.

Whistleblower's probably the wrong word to use, although I wasn't really saying he is one... hence the caveat "closest thing to" when those casually following this story probably still think McQueary is an upstanding individual just because the grand jury found him credible.

That said, I wouldn't imagine he'd be the first to go, unless voluntarily.

Edited by Manny ActaFool, 08 November 2011 - 04:36 PM.

[JBill]

Penn State students planning a support Paterno rally outside his home tonight. Maybe not the best idea kids.

[Byrdbrain]

Whistleblower's probably the wrong word to use, although I wasn't really saying he is one... hence the caveat "closest thing to" when those casually following this story probably still think McQueary is an upstanding individual just because the grand jury found him credible.

That said, I wouldn't imagine he'd be the first to go, unless voluntarily.

I imagine he was just told to get out of town and lay low, which I assume he welcomed. The recruiting trip is just some lame cover. He will likely have to eventually resign but I doubt he gets fired.

[RedOctober3829]

The Governor of PA is going to attend the Friday meeting of the PSU Board of Trustees per Kim Jones on WFAN. She's been tremendous with this story.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Chris Fowler says that McQueary is away on a recruiting trip.

http://timesofeurope...ecruiting-trip/

If he gets that kid to sign, he's the best recruiter in the nation.

[Average Reds]

The Governor of PA is going to attend the Friday meeting of the PSU Board of Trustees per Kim Jones on WFAN. She's been tremendous with this story.

Not exactly a scoop considering that the Governor sits on the PSU Board of Trustees.