194 replies to this topic

[Tokyo Sox]

Responding to a Darvish question from the Valentine thread where I asked what BV was doing in Japan and speculating on him bringing back a JPL pitcher.

Jeff Passan/Yahoo Sports report from 15-Nov.

Cool, thanks for that. Despite being written by Passan, and laden with typical Passan-ish crap, it still manages to be a great article.

I don't know if Darvish is coming. Supposedly one of the reasons he didn't come last year was because he was getting divorced, but apparently that divorce is an ongoing process. And as I've said before, he has (a couple years ago) said that he wants to get to 200 Wins in Japan. Though that having been at a fan appreciation day, was probably just lip service.

As for money being the incentive, he's been on year to year contracts and this year was on JPY 500m (about $6.5m), but Yahoo Japan had an article a few weeks ago that said Nippon Ham was willing to pay him twice that for the 2012 season if he stayed another year. 13 mil is almost certainly more than he'd make in MLB, at least for the first year. Beyond that who knows what he'd make in Japan, but probably something comparable until he reached FA. So I don't think the money is as much as of an incentive as some make it out to be.

The interesting part of the article is the speculation about the future of the posting system. From the article

The posting system will die once the only beneficiary of it stops reaping its rewards. And while Rakuten last season lodged a complaint about the system following its return of Iwakuma’s $19.1 million fee to Oakland, there is little movement today in Japan to overhaul it.

There is too much potential money the way it is, the thinking goes. NPB already struggles to keep franchises afloat financially because they don’t share media markets, business rights, anything, really. Funny enough, they could benefit more from an overhauled system than any of the other parties.

Whether it’s coming up with a sliding fee scale – teams are entitled to 50 percent if a player posts following his first season all the way down to 10 percent after his eighth – or engaging multiple bidders, there are ways to encourage player transfer in a way equitable to the team and player. Of course, Japan’s desire to keep its baseball at a high level could hinder the transfer of more Japanese talent to MLB.

...Passan doesn't really make a case about how exactly NPB teams could benefit from a revamped system as he claims in the bolded part, but he is correct that it needs to change. Interesting times.

ETA: As per Yakyubaka/Sponichi Yu is expected to be at the Fighter's year-end meeting tomorrow (Friday 02-Dec) and may meet with team execs to decide his next move then.

Edited by Tokyo Sox, 01 December 2011 - 12:34 AM.

[anakin]

Darvish's average velocity until August..


149.05km/h

1.61km=1mile

So it's 92.58mph


IMO, his fastball, silder could be plus pitch in U.S. but his changeup not that good. His forkball is not a outpitch in Japan(also he doesn't throw it much because of injury risk), but I think it will be useful since Major League hitters are not familiar with forkball.

Edited by anakin, 01 December 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Would a Toronto bid at $60M be considered so absurd to be considered "not in good faith"? The Matsuzaka bid was considered absurdly high at the time, roughly $10M above competing ones, and 3-5x what the Mariners had paid for Ichiro and Dodgers had paid for Ishii several years earlier.

Another way to ask the question - if a team played their intentions close to the vest and ultimately did not sign Darvish, would MLB/Nippon allow him to be posted again this offseason?

Well I would point out on DiceK, the Sox actually paid the absurdly high posting bid and actually made a multi-year offer he accepted. Placing and absurdly high bid, negotiating in bad faith, with no intention to pay the bid or sign the player would come with repurcussions. I don't know the process that well, but I would think some things are currently present to keep this from happening, but it would be very easy to fix. You don't sign him, the next highest post gets him.

[BCsMightyJoeYoung]

Well I would point out on DiceK, the Sox actually paid the absurdly high posting bid and actually made a multi-year offer he accepted. Placing and absurdly high bid, negotiating in bad faith, with no intention to pay the bid or sign the player would come with repurcussions. I don't know the process that well, but I would think some things are currently present to keep this from happening, but it would be very easy to fix. You don't sign him, the next highest post gets him.

That would give the player complete control over his destination and make the perceived contract offer the driving factor - as opposed to the posting bid. It could lead to the player not negotiating in good faith if he thinks there's a better offer to be had from another team.

[OCD SS]

... but it would be very easy to fix. You don't sign him, the next highest post gets him.

It's not quite so simple; then the player could simply insist on a price until he "slid" through the posting teams until he landed somewhere he wanted to play or that would meet his price. This would minimize the financial benefit to the NPB teams (since a team doesn't necessarily need to win the bidding to get the player) and in effect make an end run around NPB's reserve clause and grant the player free agency to go straight to MLB, which is what the posting system was set up to stop in the first place.

The whole key is that the posting system sets up inequalities in leverage on the part of the bargaining parties, and the exercise of that leverage in negotiations would be very difficult to separate from "bad faith." So much so that any attempt to jury-rig the system based on such a judgement call is doomed to failure.

[PaulinMyrBch]

It's not quite so simple; then the player could simply insist on a price until he "slid" through the posting teams until he landed somewhere he wanted to play or that would meet his price. This would minimize the financial benefit to the NPB teams (since a team doesn't necessarily need to win the bidding to get the player) and in effect make an end run around NPB's reserve clause and grant the player free agency to go straight to MLB, which is what the posting system was set up to stop in the first place.

The whole key is that the posting system sets up inequalities in leverage on the part of the bargaining parties, and the exercise of that leverage in negotiations would be very difficult to separate from "bad faith." So much so that any attempt to jury-rig the system based on such a judgement call is doomed to failure.

Mea culpa, shouldn't post so early...

What I mean is that if the posting team failed to negotiate in good faith, by either not making a fair market offer or just not engaging in negotiations, it could be deemed bad faith, the post could be nullified and the next posting team steps up. I didn't mean to imply that a player could refuse an offer and just let it bump down until he finds a city his wife prefers. I think it would be easy to create a rule that would prevent a low payroll team from an absurd post so to block the player from a division rival.

And frankly I shouldn't have posted, I really don't know enough about the posting process to speak accurately. But there may be a tool in place preventing this as it doesn't appear to have ever happened. I also think the team engaging in bad faith negotiations would be doing long term damage to the reputation of the club, free agent, international market, agent relationships, club to club credibility, etc...



Edit: I agree that it would be hard to determine the gray area between good and bad faith...the DiceK contract for instance was lower than most of us thought it would be, until he accepted it, some questions were out there regarding the Sox true intentions. So yes, it would be difficult.

Edited by PaulinMyrBch, 01 December 2011 - 08:16 AM.

[Kramerica Industries]

Source: Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish likely to be posted after winter meetings. #MLB

http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/143053641237008385

Edit: Also this:

Approach of #RedSox will be interesting. Valentine "loves" Darvish after managing against him Japan, source said

http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/143056666806591488

Edited by Kramerica Industries, 03 December 2011 - 03:36 PM.

[Clears Cleaver]

In one of Bobby V's many interviews over the past coule days (I don't recall which) he talked about DiceK and said that to all his Japanese friends and peers, to a man they thought DiceK had been pitching hurt. His motion was different, his changeup had disappeared and he wasn't releasing the ball the same way. Just by his tone I'd bet anything he'd love to ahve a shot with a healthy DiceK. And he probably feels he can add real value in managing Darvish, as well.

If anyone is going to manage these guys, it might as well be him. I would be shocked if they didn't make an aggressive push for Darvish

[Kramerica Industries]

In one of Bobby V's many interviews over the past coule days (I don't recall which) he talked about DiceK and said that to all his Japanese friends and peers, to a man they thought DiceK had been pitching hurt. His motion was different, his changeup had disappeared and he wasn't releasing the ball the same way. Just by his tone I'd bet anything he'd love to ahve a shot with a healthy DiceK. And he probably feels he can add real value in managing Darvish, as well.

If anyone is going to manage these guys, it might as well be him. I would be shocked if they didn't make an aggressive push for Darvish

Put me in the shocked corner if they didnt make a push for the reasons you have stated and this:

According to one source, while the Red Sox have interest in Kuroda any legitimate attempt at signing the hurler would be contingent on the organization gaining budgetary flexibility through other offseason moves.

http://www.weei.com/...da-play-red-sox

We all knew the budget is tight but this is the first time I've seen it really reported. I'd imagine, if they like Darvish, they will put in a competitive bid in an effort to add a young, quality pitcher without paying the tax. I like Wilson, but Id rather commit 120 million on Darvish.

[Laser Show]

Put me in the shocked corner if they didnt make a push for the reasons you have stated and this:



http://www.weei.com/...da-play-red-sox

We all knew the budget is tight but this is the first time I've seen it really reported. I'd imagine, if they like Darvish, they will put in a competitive bid in an effort to add a young, quality pitcher without paying the tax. I like Wilson, but Id rather commit 120 million on Darvish.

Agreed. The same went for Dice-K versus someone like Zito in 2006.

[kazuneko]

According to one source, while the Red Sox have interest in Kuroda any legitimate attempt at signing the hurler would be contingent on the organization gaining budgetary flexibility through other offseason moves.

Wow..If this is really true this is a serious concern that you'd have to imagine will get more play in the coming weeks. Is the issue just the luxury tax or is the writer implying that there are some broader fiscal issues?
Obviously, in the last couple of years the Sox have made some indefensible free agent signings and have committed to a lot of salary, but damn, has it come to this? I had not previously heard (or thought) that they were this screwed. If it is really true that signing a mid-tier free agent like Kuroda is only doable if some budget cutting moves come first then we might all need to reconsider our expectations for this offseason.

Edited by kazuneko, 04 December 2011 - 02:51 AM.

[Clears Cleaver]

There were similar reports last offseason as well. Of course it is worse this year after crawford and gonzo. Revenues will likely be down again after the way last season ended.

Who knows. Only by their actions will we know if the sox have reached their budget. But I can't imagine a team like Boston would ever leave itself without the financial flexibility to improve in the offseason

[judyb]

If they only have a little payflex, then choosing to spend what they do have on an expensive DH and/or closer, while passing on something better than a patch or a project for their injury prone 3 man rotation, would seem kind of messed up.

[effectivelywild]

Wow..If this is really true this is a serious concern that you'd have to imagine will get more play in the coming weeks. Is the issue just the luxury tax or is the writer implying that there are some broader fiscal issues?
Obviously, in the last couple of years the Sox have made some indefensible free agent signings and have committed to a lot of salary, but damn, has it come to this? I had not previously heard (or thought) that they were this screwed. If it is really true that signing a mid-tier free agent like Kuroda is only doable if some budget cutting moves come first then we might all need to reconsider our expectations for this offseason.

I read this as more that the Sox don't want to get into a bidding war over a middling pitcher. Saying that the won't because of "financial constraints" to me reads as "I know we have rotation issues, but we've had our share of overpaid disappointments, thanks."

[Papelbon's Poutine]

There were similar reports last offseason as well. Of course it is worse this year after crawford and gonzo. Revenues will likely be down again after the way last season ended.

Who knows. Only by their actions will we know if the sox have reached their budget. But I can't imagine a team like Boston would ever leave itself without the financial flexibility to improve in the offseason

Especially given the strategic structure of FSG I too find it hard to believe they don't have money to improve. They may have concerns about luxury tax, but I can't believe they are short $, reduced revenues the last two years or not.

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Per Cots we have $131,435,119 tied into the following players:

Adrian Gonzalez ($21,857,143, AAV $22,000,000)
Carl Crawford ($20,357,143, AAV $20,285,714)
Josh Beckett ($17,000,000, AAV $17,000,000)
John Lackey ($15,950,000, AAV $17,000,000 or $13,833,333 with $500K 2015 option)
Kevin Youkilis ($12,250,000, AAV $10,281,250)
Daisuke Matsuzaka ($10,333,333, AAV $9,000,000)
Dustin Pedroia ($8,250,000, AAV $6,750,000)
Jon Lester ($7,625,000, AAV $6,000,000)
Bobby Jenks ($6,000,000 AAV $6,000,000)
Marco Scutaro ($6,000,000 AAV $4,500,000 - I believe that's how this is handled as the buyout was $1.5 million)
Clay Buchholz ($3,750,000, AAV $7,486,250)
Jose Iglesias ($2,062,500, AAV $2,062,500)

With Lackey's AAV at $13.833 and Scutaro's at $4.5 this puts the AAV at $125,199,047. If I'm wrong on any of this, I apologize. I would guess that the concern here is the luxury tax - they have played around with the luxury tax #s before (Bill Hall is one that comes to mind). I have no idea what Jacoby will get in Arbitration, but with him and Ortiz + Darvish and/or Kuroda and a closer/bullpen arms it's very easy to see how they would exceed $178 million.

[ookami7m]

Retweeted by Rosenthal:
https://twitter.com/#!/VictorRojas29/status/144659369542418433

Let the bidding begin...Yu Darvish is being posted tomorrow according to @donnomura

[Beomoose]

Retweeted by Rosenthal:
https://twitter.com/#!/VictorRojas29/status/144659369542418433

I hope Ben's got JWH's checkbook ready.

[CheapSeats]

This may have been discussed the last time a big posting happened, but does anyone know what is taken into account when a posting fee is decided upon? If the upthread statement was true that the Sox had the highest posting fee for Matsuzaka by $10 mill, how did everyone else's valuation fall so short? Or did the Sox get a similar valuation, but added $10 million because they wanted to assure a posting win?

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

Retweeted by Rosenthal:
https://twitter.com/#!/VictorRojas29/status/144659369542418433

In case anyone else needs a refresher about how the process works, like I did:

http://en.wikipedia..../Posting_system

When a player under contract with a Nippon Professional Baseball team wishes to play in Major League Baseball, he must notify his current team's management and request that they make him available for posting during the next posting period (November 1 – March 1).[4] The NPB team can reject this request, and the player will not be posted.[22] However, if the team consents, the player is presented to the MLB Commissioner. The Commissioner then notifies all MLB teams of the posted player and holds a four-day-long silent auction during which interested MLB teams submit sealed bids in U.S. dollars to the Commissioner’s Office. After the allotted four days have passed, the Commissioner closes the bidding process and notifies the posted player's NPB team of the highest bid amount but not who the bidding team is. The NPB team then has four days to either accept or reject the non-negotiable bid amount.[16]

If the bid is rejected, the NPB team retains rights to the player. If it is accepted, the successful MLB team is granted the exclusive rights to negotiate with the player for 30 days. If the player and the MLB team agree on contract terms before the 30-day period has expired, the NPB team receives the bid amount as a transfer fee within five business days. The player is then free to play for his new MLB team in the coming season.[16] The transfer fee is not included when calculating an MLB team's total payroll, which is subject to a luxury tax when it exceeds $155 million.[23][24] If the MLB team cannot come to a contract agreement with the posted player, then no fee is paid and the rights to the player revert to his NPB team. A player can request to be posted again in subsequent years, and the process is repeated with no advantage to the club that had won the bidding the previous year.[16]

So we should know by the 16th at the latest who has the winning bid.

Edited by Bucknahs Bum Ankle, 08 December 2011 - 10:20 AM.

[norm from cheers]

Forgive me if this has been posted somewhere and I missed it, but do MLB teams have the ability to see medical records or meet with the player during the Silent Auction window?

[Clears Cleaver]

several tweeters, including Joel Sherman, suggesting Sox not in on Darvish post.

[Harry Hooper]

Here's the AP story on Darvish's posting:

The 25-year-old right-hander, considered the best pitcher in the Japanese professional leagues, wrote on his blog that he had decided to use the posting system, which allows MLB teams to bid for the negotiating rights to Japanese players who have yet to become free agents.

"I have decided to use the posting system," he said. "I wanted to tell my fans directly, so that is why I am posting this on my blog."
...
"I owe a lot of thanks to my team," Darvish said, adding he would provide more details at an upcoming news conference.
...
"Darvish is the No. 1 pitcher in Japan, but we want him to become the ace of the world," Nippon Ham team representative Toshimasa Shimada said.

[Corsi]

Cherington says #redsox unlikely to be involved in Darvish bidding.

https://twitter.com/#!/alexspeier/status/144826589534883841

[xjack]

[Cherington says #redsox unlikely to be involved in Darvish bidding.

If this was coming from Theo, I'd just assume he was lying -- or strategically misinforming, to put it a little more nicely. Don't know whether Cherington plays the same games.

Edited by xjack, 08 December 2011 - 12:18 PM.

[Corsi]

Lucchino said up to Cherington if Sox get in on Darvish.

https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNJoeyMac/status/144828272381927424

[Marbleheader]

If I were a betting man, I'd wager the Rangers land him now.

[rembrat]

It's going to suck when the Yankees win this auction. Angels, Blue Jays, and Yankees all get better while the Sox are left twiddling their thumbs hoping Madsen's price drops.

But I understand why they haven't done anything. It's just one of those off-seasons.

[flymrfreakjar]

It's going to suck when the Yankees win this auction. Angels, Blue Jays, and Yankees all get better while the Sox are left twiddling their thumbs hoping Madsen's price drops.

But I understand why they haven't done anything. It's just one of those off-seasons.

And that's what's so frustrating... This off-season had a market that was actually pretty kind to their needs, but due to overspending on guys that didn't work out, their hands are largely tied. Got a bit of a Tantalus situation going on...

[xjack]

And that's what's so frustrating... This off-season had a market that was actually pretty kind to their needs, but due to overspending on guys that didn't work out, their hands are largely tied. Got a bit of a Tantalus situation going on...

Just wondering, if the Sox were to land Darvish and then waive Dice-K, would Dice-K's salary still count for luxury-tax purposes?

[TomRicardo]

Just wondering, if the Sox were to land Darvish and then waive Dice-K, would Dice-K's salary still count for luxury-tax purposes?

Yes, that would be incredibly dumb being they would lose all the insurance money they have on Daisuke's contract.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

And that's what's so frustrating... This off-season had a market that was actually pretty kind to their needs, but due to overspending on guys that didn't work out, their hands are largely tied. Got a bit of a Tantalus situation going on...

I know that everyone likes a shiny new toy, but there as absolutely no certainty that Darvish will work out either.

Regardless, I'm not convinced that the Sox aren't going to bid. Seriously, what do they have to gain by publicly stating that they are?

[xjack]

Yes, that would be incredibly dumb being they would lose all the insurance money they have on Daisuke's contract.

So waived players do count for salary-cap purposes?

Just curious, how do you know for a fact that Dice-K's contract A) is insured and B) will pay for this specific injury?

[PrometheusWakefield]

I know that everyone likes a shiny new toy, but there as absolutely no certainty that Darvish will work out either.

Regardless, I'm not convinced that the Sox aren't going to bid. Seriously, what do they have to gain by publicly stating that they are?

Nothing, but if they don't make an aggressive bid, I'm going to be fucking pissed. Mark Buerlhe and his 4.78 K/9 just got $14.5 million for 5 years. If that's sets the market for Edwin Jackson (who deserves more) and CJ Wilson (who deserves much more) then the market for established MLB starters sucks ass and the chances of us making a significant upgrade there are nil. Darvish has the potential to be a good or even great 25 year old starter, and while it will take a dumptruck full of money to get him, the vast majority of that money won't count against the luxury tax. We're also in a pretty good position to mentor him, with a manager who understands Japanese culture. It would be crazy for us not to be aggressive for Darvish.

This team needs more pitching. If it ain't Darvish, it's going to be someone who sucks.

Edited by PrometheusWakefield, 08 December 2011 - 01:15 PM.

[ThatsMyPeskyPole]

Nothing, but if they don't make an aggressive bid, I'm going to be fucking pissed. Mark Buerlhe and his 4.78 K/9 just got $14.5 million for 5 years. If that's sets the market for Edwin Jackson (who deserves more) and CJ Wilson (who deserves much more) then the market for established MLB starters sucks ass and the chances of us making a significant upgrade there are nil. Darvish has the potential to be a good or even great 25 year old starter, and while it will take a dumptruck full of money to get him, the vast majority of that money won't count against the luxury tax. We're also in a pretty good position to mentor him, with a manager who understands Japanese culture. It would be crazy for us not to be aggressive for Darvish.

This team needs more pitching. If it ain't Darvish, it's going to be someone who sucks.

The bottom line is - are the Sox going over luxury tax? I'm thinking they will come to the realization that they HAVE no choice. If they don't too many things will have to fall into place for this team to make playoffs.

[Rasputin]

The bottom line is - are the Sox going over luxury tax? I'm thinking they will come to the realization that they HAVE no choice. If they don't too many things will have to fall into place for this team to make playoffs.

Would it be rude of me to point out that not making the playoffs is an option? Most teams deal with that routinely.

[ThatsMyPeskyPole]

Would it be rude of me to point out that not making the playoffs is an option? Most teams deal with that routinely.

Not rude at all.

[Laser Show]

Would it be rude of me to point out that not making the playoffs is an option? Most teams deal with that routinely.

Agreed, not rude. The problem lies in the belief that this team is built to win now, which was just made stronger with the hiring of Valentine.

This is the optimal way of upgrading the rotation (need #1) while avoiding the biggest obstacle (the luxury tax). I'll be angry if they aren't at least competitive.

Not to mention they might know how to better handle a Japanese import the second time around, especially with Valentine.

[PrometheusWakefield]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

"I'm not sure the timing this offseason puts us in a position to be the most aggressive team. But he's a good pitcher and we have a lot of respect for him. We'll certainly discuss it and figure out if a post makes sense. But we've got a lot of [financial] commitment to the starting rotation and feel pretty good about the front end of our rotation. Certainly if a team is going to be posting and trying to sign [Darvish], it's going to be part of the front end of the rotation and we feel pretty good about that part of our team."

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

[ThatsMyPeskyPole]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

It did sound stupid but it also sounds like the noise of a small market team. That kind of talk doesn't cut it around here. I'm still convinced Sox are going to spend, luxury tax be damned!

[TomRicardo]

So waived players do count for salary-cap purposes?

Just curious, how do you know for a fact that Dice-K's contract A) is insured and B) will pay for this specific injury?

Yes Waived Players count towards the luxury tax their full AAV minus whatever another team pays to sign them

There is no way the Red Sox didn't get insurance on 26 year old signee getting 8 figure deal. None. Especially against Tommy John.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

If this isn't a smokescreen, I agree. Not winning the bidding wouldn't be a failure (it's a blind bid... you can't really predict those too well), but not bidding aggressively would be. I have not been happy with anything this team has done since the end of August. What an epic clusterfuck the last three months have been.

[Rasputin]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

As long as you have financial constraints (and everyone but the Yankees does) and as long as the pay scale is even remotely related to the ability then no it is not stupid.

If you have four million dollars to spend and you need to fill out the bottom of the rotation you are not in the mix for a ten million dollar #2/3 starter.

[Beomoose]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

I hope that's misdirection, because otherwise I agree. We feel "pretty good" about the front end of the rotation after September? Really? With John Lackey still on this team? With Alfredo Aceves currently the only addition to the rotation? With LAAAAAAA picking up Pujols?

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

He sounds like a really bad bluffer to me

[gammoseditor]

Seriously, this team has a budget. It's the second biggest budget in baseball. They've spent some bad money and some good money. But complaining that they're not going to shell out over $100 million between posting fee and contract for a pitcher when they already have the second highest payroll in baseball comes across as self entitled. With or without Darvish we are contenders for a WS title next year.

[Rasputin]

Seriously, this team has a budget. It's the second biggest budget in baseball. They've spent some bad money and some good money. But complaining that they're not going to shell out over $100 million between posting fee and contract for a pitcher when they already have the second highest payroll in baseball comes across as self entitled. With or without Darvish we are contenders for a WS title next year.

Yeah this. People are acting like Yankee fans with a sense of entitlement that is through the roof.

I hope it's all BS smokescreen and they are going hard after Darvish because it's fun and he looks like he's going to be good and he fits a need.

But really, the budget talk makes sense. We've got 25 million locked up in players that had to have their elbows reattached.

[rembrat]

Can't I just say that it sucks not having a new shiny toy* (something, anything, a guy for the bench) and not be labeled a Yankee fan?

* I know there is still time for this to happen.

Edited by rembrat, 08 December 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[Toe Nash]

This logic is fucking ridiculous:

Are you kidding me? If a guy plays third base and you have a third baseman already then don't sign him. If the guy is a "#1" starting pitcher and you pass because you're looking for a "#4" then that's idiotic.

Ben Cherington is not off to a great start as Red Sox GM.

That's not really what he was saying. I think by "the timing" he means "we have already spent a shit-ton of money and can't spend a lot more this offseason."

And the front end of the rotation is good, if all are healthy. There's a certain amount of diminishing returns once you make the playoffs since your #4 guy can only start once in a seven-game series. They need innings and a few starters to get through the season, but they don't necessarily have to be top-level innings, just decent ones. They missed the playoffs by one game carrying a bunch of below-replacement level dreck.

But yeah, let's look for reasons to hate on Cherington before he has had an actual offseason.

[Kramerica Industries]

He sounds like a really bad bluffer to me

Agreed. Seriously, what is he suppossed to say? "We really want Darvish, we are going to make a big push for him!"?

The fact is they know what they are doing already. There is no reason to show their cards yet.