116 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

Figured we needed a bullpen thread to go with the starting rotation one. Will they re-sign Papelbon? If not, who will close? If you choose other, make your case. Will Aceves stay in his role as the long man/7th inning/swing man out of the pen or will they slot him in the rotation?

[rembrat]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
joe nathans agent david pepe says nathan is excited about free agency and seeks closer (not setup) job. 1.00 2nd half whip

Link to tweet

Incase Paps ain't a Red Sox and Bard is a SP.

[tims4wins]

Link to tweet

Incase Paps ain't a Red Sox and Bard is a SP.

I like this option a lot if the price is right. From June 28 to the end of the year, he put up a 0.88 WHIP with 28 Ks in 28.1 IP and a .582 OPS against. It would also allow them to keep Bard in the more valuable 'relief ace' role.

Edit:

FIP / xFIP for the 2nd half:
July: 2.85 / 3.48
Aug: 4.36 / 4.31
Sept/Oct: 2.74 / 2.32

Edited by tims4wins, 26 October 2011 - 01:08 PM.

[TheGoldenGreek33]

The volatility with relievers will be the reason Paps will be re-signed. He won't be cheap, but it's necessary. I imagine he'll be asking for 4/60.

Aceves will get a shot to crack the opening day rotation, but I think eventually he stays in his same role. 2 pitch/fly ball pitcher, doesn't have great control/command, benefited from a high LOB%. I'm expecting a little regression.

I think Alex Wilson is going to be up by June and will be a solid 6th-7th inning guy against righties.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

After a bad couple of years, I'd take a shot with Michael Wuertz. Should be a pretty low buy (only 73.1 IP over the last two years; a disastrous 1.87 WHIP last year). His K/9 (and good slider) are intriguing. Todd Coffey has a solid year last year as well. May be worth a look.

I said in the other thread I'd exercise Wheeler's option. Matt Albers I assume will still be in the mix (and he started pitching somewhat better towards the end of the year). Aceves will either be the swing/ 7th inning guy again or starting. I think Atch probably deserves some real consideration in spring training as another arm at the back of the pen/ long man if Ace goes to the rotation. I'd take Atch way ahead of Bowden. And who could forget about Bobby Jenks. Those appear to be the RHP options we have currently.

The bullpen desperately needs a lefty who neutralizes lefties. Rich Hill may not be effective when he returns. Felix Doubrant has nearly no LOOGY quality. I was looking at George Sherrill who has held lefties to a .180/ .241/ .275 line over his career, but this year he had a reverse split with lefties hitting higher. John Grabow has nearly no split one way or the other against either lefty or righty over his career. Would you want to take a ride on the JC Romero express again? I doubt it. If Hong Chih-Kuo wasn't a mess mentally and mulling retirement, he may be a decent flyer as well. Maybe the Sox make another run at Matt Thornton, albeit, he's be more of an all-purpose guy.

If we want a LHP who has had success recently, guys like Oliver, Affeldt, and Javy Lopez are available, but they cost more and possibly multiple years. I guess I'd prefer taking a flyer on a Sherrill, especially since we will need to put big money into resigning Pap/ getting a closer, plus possibly replacing Bard as the 8th inning guy.

EDIT: Just reread my post and wrote "know" instead "no". It bothered me.

Edited by greek_gawd_of_walks, 27 October 2011 - 04:56 PM.

[dynomite]

I was looking at George Sherrill who has held lefties to a .180/ .241/ .275 line over his career, but this year he had a reverse split with lefties hitting higher.

I'm a Sherrill fan for the Sox next season. He's coming off a very strong rebound year, he'll probably be affordable, and he's less of an injury risk than most of the other options (57+ GP every year since '06).

Obviously Rich Hill will get a long look, but I think Sherrill should too. For example, if we're deciding between him and Morales:

For comparison's sake:

Morales xFIP (46 IP): 4.36
Sherril xFIP (36 IP): 3.08


And, despite the reverse split mentioned above:

Morales vs LHH: .238/.337/.380
Sherrill vs LHH: .256/.275/.321 (and, incredibly, a 32/1 K/BB ratio).


Also, although I'm skeptical of RISP stats (limited sample size perversions, in particular) the stats are compelling:

Morales w RISP (47 batters faced): .300/.370/.553 (12 hits, 8 Ks, 5 BBs)
Sherrill w RISP (47 batters faced): .184/.304/.170 (7 hits, 14 Ks, 6 BBs)


Does this mean that Sherrill pounds the strike zone and has the stuff to work out of jams? Is it merely irrelevant? I'm sure Carmine knows better than I.

Considering his track record and pitcher profile (a 45% GB rate this year compared to Morales' 30%) I think Sherrill could be a great addition.


EDIT: Chrome and this site are enemies.

Edited by dynomite, 27 October 2011 - 02:20 PM.

[Sprowl]

Aceves will get a shot to crack the opening day rotation, but I think eventually he stays in his same role. 2 pitch/fly ball pitcher, doesn't have great control/command, benefited from a high LOB%. I'm expecting a little regression.

I agree that the HR/FB and LOB% point to some regression, but Aceves is definitely not a 2-pitch pitcher. Depending on whether he's given credit for a sinker in addition to the 4-seamer, he throws either 4 or 5 pitches: fastball, (sinker), curve, cutter, and changeup. Throwing each of the curve, cutter and change for strikes are what make him effective against lefties, in spite of his 10 o'clock arm slot and slinging delivery. The absence of a platoon split is another indicator in favor of a conversion to starting, along with Aceves' preference for the role. My major concern is whether he can maintain velocity into the 5th inning, but he's certainly worth a try in a higher-value role.

I'd say the same for Bard, but I can't see the Red Sox trying to convert both Aceves and Bard during the same season.

[Drek717]

Colorado is expected to shop Huston Street on the last year of his deal at $7.5M with a $9M mutual option/$500K buyout for 2013. Given the plethora of late inning relievers who will be available this off-season the asking price for Street doesn't seem like it could be much more than taking his salary. He's young, on a short term deal, and has a solid track record of producing both in the AL and in a hitter's park in Colorado.

Not sure if I'd want to add him as the defacto closer, but if he is moved for what amounts to salary relief he'd be a great guy to put in the mix, especially if we do convert Bard to a starter.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Colorado is expected to shop Huston Street on the last year of his deal at $7.5M with a $9M mutual option/$500K buyout for 2013. Given the plethora of late inning relievers who will be available this off-season the asking price for Street doesn't seem like it could be much more than taking his salary. He's young, on a short term deal, and has a solid track record of producing both in the AL and in a hitter's park in Colorado.

Not sure if I'd want to add him as the defacto closer, but if he is moved for what amounts to salary relief he'd be a great guy to put in the mix, especially if we do convert Bard to a starter.

Street has great K and BB rates, but what happened when hitters put the ball in play this year is a bit worrisome: 24% LD rate and 14.5 HR/FB--and he's a flyball pitcher, so that translated to an ugly 1.5 HR/9. I would be a bit nervous about how that kind of batted-ball profile would play in AL East parks (never mind AL East lineups).

Still, it's hard to argue with a 1.39 BB/9. You're not going to give up a lot of 3-run homers pitching like that.

[lambeau]

I love Hong-Chih Kuo, noted above. Best project in MLB. Probable non-tender available for $1-2 M incentive deal. Best LOOGY in MLB. 40% K-rate LHB's. 30% RHB's.

Maybe Daisuke just needs a friend: Uehara humiliated by Rangers and wants out. Probably available at $4 M. One hell of a set-up man for 7th inning.

[SoxScout]

Atchison has qualified for Super-2 status along with Bard.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I love Hong-Chih Kuo, noted above. Best project in MLB. Probable non-tender available for $1-2 M incentive deal. Best LOOGY in MLB. 40% K-rate LHB's. 30% RHB's.

This Hong-Chih Kuo (Kuo headed for fifth elbow operation)? The Kuo that was disabled in May with anxiety disorder? Way too many red flags there, even if they got him on a minor league deal with incentives. And if that's all it will take to get him, I think the Dodgers are going to keep him around and he's probably inclined to stay.

Maybe Daisuke just needs a friend: Uehara humiliated by Rangers and wants out. Probably available at $4 M. One hell of a set-up man for 7th inning.

I hope that first part is a joke. But Uehara reportedly wants to go back to Baltimore. He chose to back to Baltimore last offseason at a below market rate rather than explore free agency. He doesn't strike me as the type that will flourish in Boston any more than he did in Texas. Putting that aside and taking him strictly on his production (and not some flaky "he can be Daisuke's buddy" rationale), yes, he'd be a great addition to the Red Sox bullpen.

[Paul M]

Assuming Jenks is not an option and maybe I missed the latest on him, I guess they might have to sign someone in addition to Papelbon. This is not what the plan was a year ago but things change. Trying to think of who would target Papelbon and I'm not sure there is a suitor to really fear though it only takes one. I guess Philly is one to worry about and I actually wouldn't be surprised if Toronto isn't looking to make noise there.

I guess I see Bard as a starter only if Papelbon is back of course and I think it would make Aceves the top set-up man. Maybe I'm greedy, but I'd want another shutdown guy if that happens.

[OCD SS]

I voted for re-signing Paps, but I don't think he'll get close to the $60M/4 yrs offer Greek posits. I could also see the Sox playing draft roulette (provided that's still an option) and letting him go for the picks and surrendering their own to the Twins for Nathan. The breaker in that scenario is probably how comfortable with each player's medicals they are...

I think the idea that Bard could be a starter is, well, a non-starter. He was moved to the 'pen to help correct his approach and head-space while he was starting in the minors, and has flourished since. I'd like to see him continue to develop in a relief ace roll, basically being the guy who can come in at any time to put out what look to be the worst fires. It would mean not getting saves and not getting labeled a closer, but I'd really like to see the Sox see if he can accept and train for this kind of usage and see them compensate him appropriately.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Lidge, Madson, Nathan, Francisco, K-Rod, Bell, Broxton, Cruz, and Rodney are all FA (in addition to Papelbon, of course)- and surely there will be some interesting non-tenders and guys available in the trade market. It really looks like a buyers marketplace for relievers, IMO.

[Sprowl]

Assuming Jenks is not an option and maybe I missed the latest on him, I guess they might have to sign someone in addition to Papelbon. This is not what the plan was a year ago but things change. Trying to think of who would target Papelbon and I'm not sure there is a suitor to really fear though it only takes one. I guess Philly is one to worry about and I actually wouldn't be surprised if Toronto isn't looking to make noise there.

I guess I see Bard as a starter only if Papelbon is back of course and I think it would make Aceves the top set-up man. Maybe I'm greedy, but I'd want another shutdown guy if that happens.

My understanding was that Jenks' pulmonary embolism should be fully treated by 2012, and he would be back in the bullpen. He's being paid $6m, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him get the closer's job if Papelbon signs elsewhere, with Bard as the relief ace and closer-in-waiting if Jenks implodes.

Come to think of it, Jenks is less likely to implode than he is to inflate and float away.

[E5 Yaz]

Come to think of it, Jenks is less likely to implode than he is to inflate and float away.

That presumes helium instead of methane

[knucklecup]

Rotoworld/KC Star:

The Kansas City Star reports that the Royals' decision to exercise Joakim Soria's $6 million option for 2012 is "widely viewed as a formality."
Soria is coming off a down year, having posted a 4.03 ERA while blowing seven of 35 save chances, even losing his ninth inning gig for a short period of time. But, he was one of the best closers in all of baseball before this season, making the $6 million price tag very reasonable if he bounces back. The Royals also have options on him for 2013 ($8 million) and 2014 ($8.75 million).

Here's a name to throw around.

- $22.75 million over 3 years is very affordable.
- Though you're going to be giving up something of value to get him, wouldn't it be worthwhile to give up, lets say Reddick, for Soria for the next three years?

[Savin Hillbilly]

Come to think of it, Jenks is less likely to implode than he is to inflate and float away.

Perhaps Juggalo needs a new nickname. We could call him Violet.

Seriously, I would be loath to pencil Jenks in as the closer going into 2012 until we have a sense of how he's going to bounce back from the lost year. I know the closer spot is overrated, but I'm not sure the players themselves know that, nor most fans or scribes. An imploding closer could really start next year off on the wrong foot in a big way. I'd rather keep Jenks in a 7th- or 8th-inning role, and if Papelbon's gone, promote Bard or sign somebody else.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Rotoworld/KC Star:



Here's a name to throw around.

- $22.75 million over 3 years is very affordable.
- Though you're going to be giving up something of value to get him, wouldn't it be worthwhile to give up, lets say Reddick, for Soria for the next three years?

Why would the Royals give him up though? If they're exercising his option for 2012, that would indicate they want him around, no? And if they are going to pick up the option, then put him on the block, I think they're selling low on him coming off a down year.

At this point, I don't think I'm shipping Reddick out in exchange for a reliever unless I'm positive Kalish can be healthy and a solid contributor. Reddick as an inexpensive option in RF is key to the team having the fiscal flexibility to upgrade elsewhere on the roster. And if it comes to it, I think there's another closer as good as Soria on the free agent market that can be had for equal or less money.

[Rough Carrigan]

Lidge, Madson, Nathan, Francisco, K-Rod, Bell, Broxton, Cruz, and Rodney are all FA (in addition to Papelbon, of course)- and surely there will be some interesting non-tenders and guys available in the trade market. It really looks like a buyers marketplace for relievers, IMO.

Broxton is a name that's interesting. He seemed to get burned out by Joe Torre. I know, shocking to imagine that Joe Torre would slag a reliever's arm. A notion beyond the pale. But the guy was very effective till being Torre'd. His career K/9 is 11.5. And he only allowed 7.3 hits/9. His control could be better at 3.7 walks/9.

He wouldn't be my first choice and the money would have to be reasonable but I wouldn't want anything to do with Lidge, Francisco, Bell, K-Rod or Rodney. Ideally you'd sign him to a short term contract that lets him prove himself healthy and come back onto the market in a year or two and have him setting up a re-signed Papelbon allowing Bard to go to the starting rotation. That's probably threading too many needles too finely for it to happen but if he's healthy and can be close to what he was till last year the guy is a contributor.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 30 October 2011 - 08:43 PM.

[SoxScout]

Atchison and Wheeler options declined by the Sox, per press release.

Atchison was a surprise Super-2 I believe, I don't think he is going anywhere. Supposedly they have a deal with Wheeler that won't allow him to accept arb, thus a sandwich draft pick.

Edit: Speier says Atchision isn't arbitration eligible... so who knows what's going on there.

Edited by SoxScout, 31 October 2011 - 01:50 PM.

[jsinger121]

Atchison and Wheeler options declined by the Sox, per press release.

Atchison was a surprise Super-2 I believe, I don't think he is going anywhere. Supposedly they have a deal with Wheeler that won't allow him to accept arb, thus a sandwich draft pick.

Edit: Speier says Atchision isn't arbitration eligible... so who knows what's going on there.

Unless he is signed as a minor league free agent like Felipe Lopez did.

[Bowlerman9]

Atchison and Wheeler options declined by the Sox, per press release.

Atchison was a surprise Super-2 I believe, I don't think he is going anywhere. Supposedly they have a deal with Wheeler that won't allow him to accept arb, thus a sandwich draft pick.

Edit: Speier says Atchision isn't arbitration eligible... so who knows what's going on there.

To qualify as a Super 2, you need to be on the roster for a specific amount of time in the previous season (I believe it's half the season, going off of memory). So even though Atchison met the first criteria (being in the top 20% of 2+ players) he didnt meet the second.

[SoxScout]

To qualify as a Super 2, you need to be on the roster for a specific amount of time in the previous season (I believe it's half the season, going off of memory). So even though Atchison met the first criteria (being in the top 20% of 2+ players) he didnt meet the second.

Good call. It's 86 days, he had 52.

[Plympton91]

Rotoworld/KC Star:



Here's a name to throw around, [Joakim Soria].

- $22.75 million over 3 years is very affordable.
- Though you're going to be giving up something of value to get him, wouldn't it be worthwhile to give up, lets say Reddick, for Soria for the next three years?

Normally, I'd say yes, but I saw him pitch a game against the Yankees down the stretch last season and he was struggling to break 90. I think there's some major damaged goods there. I'd rather resign Dan Wheeler than take Soria.

Gammons was on one of the national morning shows during the Tito and Theo debacles and said during one flourish "...and of course, they'll move Bard to the rotation" as if it was fait accompli. It'll be interesting to see if that holds true.

[Harry Hooper]

The Sox should be able to sign two late-inning guys (Paps might be one). Bard goes to the rotation, and then you have the two signeees, plus Jenks and Aceves, to get outs in innings 7-9. Looks pretty good to me.

[rembrat]

The Sox should be able to sign two late-inning guys (Paps might be one). Bard goes to the rotation, and then you have the two signeees, plus Jenks and Aceves, to get outs in innings 7-9. Looks pretty good to me.

I like this. Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Bedard(or someone else on a 1 year deal)-Bard.

Give Bard a shot, if he sticks you have a guy making peanuts in the rotation and if it fails miserably, no biggie, send him back to the bullpen and get Cain/Greinke/Danks/Liriano/etc in the FA next year.

[Rasputin]

I am floored by the number of people who think Papelbon is going to be back. He has been intent on exploring the free agent market since Day 1.

We obviously don't know what Cherington will be like but I have a hard time believing that the Red Sox are going to be the top bidder for a closer when they have an in house candidate who is by most measures better.

Also, is there any indication that the Red Sox are interested in converting Bard to a starter?

[Harry Hooper]

Edes: on 10/30/11:

The Sox pitching decisions will be predicated on whether they e-sign Jonathan Papelbon, and/or make Daniel Bard a starter, which Cherington acknowledged is a possibility. If Papelbon goes, the Sox would do well to sign both Heath Bell and Ryan Madson, which would probably cost them the same money to keep Papelbon. But keeping Papelbon should be a priority, given the year he had (his second with a WAR over 3). Cherington said he'd love to see the Red Sox hit again on a bargain like Alfredo Aceves, so unless the price is reasonable for a Mark Buerhle or Roy Oswalt, the Sox may not go deep on either one.

[Rasputin]

Edes: on 10/30/11:

Thanks.

I still have my doubts but if it worked, it would be as they say, wicked freaking awesome.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I am floored by the number of people who think Papelbon is going to be back. He has been intent on exploring the free agent market since Day 1.

He can explore the free agent market, and still return to the Sox. There's a ton of relief options on the market, and the Sox have a need. They know that Papelbon can handle the market and what he can do here; I think there's a very good chance he comes back, and that the contract is more reasonable than most think. No one is going to give him K-Rod money, IMO, and it's not as if the Sox can't afford him.

We obviously don't know what Cherington will be like but I have a hard time believing that the Red Sox are going to be the top bidder for a closer when they have an in house candidate who is by most measures better.

Bard is better than Papelbon "by most measures"? Which measures are those? And don't they need more than 2 relievers?

[EddieYost]

Bard is better than Papelbon "by most measures"? Which measures are those? And don't they need more than 2 relievers?

I really hate the closer role in modern baseball and the stupid save stat. We should be trying to keep Bard and Papelbon, and not be concerned that we can only have 1 closer.

[Rasputin]

He can explore the free agent market, and still return to the Sox. There's a ton of relief options on the market, and the Sox have a need. They know that Papelbon can handle the market and what he can do here; I think there's a very good chance he comes back, and that the contract is more reasonable than most think. No one is going to give him K-Rod money, IMO, and it's not as if the Sox can't afford him.

Why isn't anyone going to give him K-Rod money? You're talking about a guy who is really good and has done it in the postseason. That's a recipe for getting a lot of money.

Bard is better than Papelbon "by most measures"? Which measures are those? And don't they need more than 2 relievers?

Okay, the by most measures thing was a bit over the top. Would you agree on "in the same class of awesomeness?" because the larger point remains the same.

Of course they need more than two relievers. What they don't need is guys who are making ten million dollars more than another guy who does the job just as well.

I really hate the closer role in modern baseball and the stupid save stat. We should be trying to keep Bard and Papelbon, and not be concerned that we can only have 1 closer.

I completely agree on the closer role and I think the Sox mostly agree too which is why I don't think they are going to be willing to spend as much as someone else. Maybe I'm wrong, that would be pretty damn awesome. We shall see.

[RedOctober3829]

#phillies also have had talks with papelbon. Seem determined to sign either pap or madson. like their style

https://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/133746695061254146

[RedOctober3829]

Source: #RedSox and #Rays have checked in on FA reliever Luis Ayala, who pitched for #Yankees this year.

https://twitter.com/#!/jonmorosi/status/140458518355517441

[MartyBarrettMVP]

Cross Broxton off:


Herald

Jonathan Broxton has agreed to terms on a one-year contract with the Kansas City Royals, pending the passage of a physical. According to a baseball source, the Red Sox expressed interest in Broxton, either as a setup man or a closer option.

Edited by MartyBarrettMVP, 29 November 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[nvalvo]

Cross Broxton off:


Herald

Does this make Soria more available?

[Rough Carrigan]

Does this make Soria more available?

Yeah, you have to give them something valuable so that they'll give you Soria and his damaged shoulder. Yay.

[TheGoldenGreek33]

Matt Thornton has been on the block since July. He has two years, $12MM and a club option for 2014 left on his contract. He's 35 and bounced back well after a rough first half of the season last year. He's posted a FIP < 3 the past three years. He generates ground balls and has strikeout stuff. Works equally well against righties and lefties.

Obviously, there are some red flags. He's primarily a FB-only guy and in his mid-thirties. The White Sox might eat a little bit of the contract, but the White Sox are looking for a B prospect in return.

I'm not suggesting he close in Boston, but he'd be a solid set up man.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Matt Thornton has been on the block since July. He has two years, $12MM and a club option for 2014 left on his contract. He's 35 and bounced back well after a rough first half of the season last year. He's posted a FIP < 3 the past three years. He generates ground balls and has strikeout stuff. Works equally well against righties and lefties.

Obviously, there are some red flags. He's primarily a FB-only guy and in his mid-thirties. The White Sox might eat a little bit of the contract, but the White Sox are looking for a B prospect in return.

I'm not suggesting he close in Boston, but he'd be a solid set up man.

It wasn't even a rough first half, really, just a rough first month. From May 1 on he had a 2.45 ERA and .574 OPS allowed.

If he could be had for one B prospect, I'd jump. But that sounds a bit bearish.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Yeah, you have to give them something valuable so that they'll give you Soria and his damaged shoulder. Yay.

Broxton and Soria could coexist in the KC pen next year up until the trade deadline. They don't need to move Soria now; it's not like Broxton was Nathan or Rivera or the 1A closer in 2011 for his respective ballclub. They may be offering him a Jenks-type deal ("you'll get some save chances and will be the setup guy").

File under "these things have a way of taking care of themselves."

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 29 November 2011 - 04:32 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

As written last week, Rangers among teams pursuing Andrew Bailey. Reds, Blue Jays, Mariners, Red Sox among other teams.

https://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/142022455777701888

[kwa1430]

Heard Thornton on the White Sox is available. He is a hard throwing lefty who doesnt give up many home runs and kills lefty (always a good thing vs the Yankees).

If we leave Bard as closer and have a combination of Thornton (by trade), Jenks (hopefully something left), Capps (FA signing) for the 7th and 8th innings, it is a start of a good pen.

[Savin Hillbilly]

The Jed Lowrie of relievers is on Boston's radar. How do we feel about that?

[SoxScout]

The Jed Lowrie of relievers is on Boston's radar. How do we feel about that?

I'd roll the dice on him in a heartbeat.

[TheoShmeo]

So, as of now, both Aceves and Bard are coming to Spring Training with at least the possibility of being in the rotation.

Last season, the most reliable members of the pen were Paps, Bard and Aceves. Albers and Morales were good at times. So were other guys, but no one besides the first three was reliable for sustained periods.

Of all the jobs Ben has, filling in that pen seems like the most difficult (with filling in the rotation right there with it, especially if Bard or Aceves stays inthe pen).

But if those two start, who does he have except Jenks post-surgery (cough), Morales and some band aids?

That tells me that at least one of Bard and Aceves will likely end up back in the pen.

All this talk about the Sox being built to win now kind of ignores how much work Cherington is going to have to do to round out this pitching staff.

[Rasputin]

But if those two start, who does he have except Jenks post-surgery (cough), Morales and some band aids?

Wakefield still has some use as a lower leverage guy. I believe Doubront is out of options and is probably useful. As putrid as Weiland was overall, his first innings weren't that bad so he might be an option.

That tells me that at least one of Bard and Aceves will likely end up back in the pen.

I tend to agree and I still think it's reasonably likely to be both of them. Of the two, though, I think Bard should only return to the pen if it looks like he isn't going to work out as a starter while Aceves should return to the pen because he just makes the pen so much stronger.

All this talk about the Sox being built to win now kind of ignores how much work Cherington is going to have to do to round out this pitching staff.

On the one hand, yeah, on the other hand, the really hard work is done. We've got a top three starters that most teams would kill for and we have a reliable late inning guy. That we're trying to convert him to get more use out of him doesn't mean he couldn't transition back into that role pretty easily.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Wakefield still has some use as a lower leverage guy. I believe Doubront is out of options and is probably useful. As putrid as Weiland was overall, his first innings weren't that bad so he might be an option.

Wakefield's also a FA who seems somewhat unlikely to return. If the Sox have limited funds, as we have been led to believe, than they move Bard & Aceves to the rotation, acquire a guy like Bailey to close, and fill in the rest of the pen with Weiland, Doubront, and a few gambles like Zumaya. Sox probably wait until late in the game to add players who are looking for too much money, years, etc. right now.

[RedOctober3829]

Wakefield still has some use as a lower leverage guy. I believe Doubront is out of options and is probably useful. As putrid as Weiland was overall, his first innings weren't that bad so he might be an option.



I tend to agree and I still think it's reasonably likely to be both of them. Of the two, though, I think Bard should only return to the pen if it looks like he isn't going to work out as a starter while Aceves should return to the pen because he just makes the pen so much stronger.



On the one hand, yeah, on the other hand, the really hard work is done. We've got a top three starters that most teams would kill for and we have a reliable late inning guy. That we're trying to convert him to get more use out of him doesn't mean he couldn't transition back into that role pretty easily.

Buchholz is still a question mark in my mind as he's coming off a significant injury. Lester wasn't the same pitcher last year that he has been as well. Beckett has been up-and-down with inconsistency and injuries the last few years. I'd say the starting rotation, while it has a high upside at the top, is still a major question mark.