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What's wrong with the Bruins?


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#51 NickEsasky


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:14 AM

So we're back to it being a couple of years ago, when they were last in the league in scoring?

They didn't have much trouble scoring last year. What the fuck's going on now?

Some of it is clearly just plain old bad luck. Unfortunately a good portion of it is that the Bruins don't have a lot of guys who can finish. How many goals could have been scored this season if the shooter could pick a corner instead of shooting it at a goalie's chest or lift the puck? 5? 10?

#52 cshea


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:15 AM

It's not due to a lack of scoring chances, they're just having a terrible time trying to finish. I don't really know how you solve that.

The biggest thing, to me, is they are having a hard time playing a complete 60 minute game. That's probably a symptom of a hangover. They seem to start strong in games, then slowly fade as the game progresses.

#53 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:19 AM

It's not due to a lack of scoring chances, they're just having a terrible time trying to finish. I don't really know how you solve that.

The biggest thing, to me, is they are having a hard time playing a complete 60 minute game. That's probably a symptom of a hangover. They seem to start strong in games, then slowly fade as the game progresses.

Bingo.

Patience my friends, the goals will come.

#54 Spaulding Smails


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:23 AM

They have gone through these type of stretches before its just more magnified because its the first month of the season coming off a cup win. I don't have an issue with the effort, the execution is just piss poor teamwide.

#55 Salem's Lot


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:57 AM

They have gone through these type of stretches before its just more magnified because its the first month of the season coming off a cup win.



This.

We only need to look back to November of last year to find a similar stretch. Between the 11th & 28th of November last year they went 4-6 over a ten game period and only scored 19 goals. The only difference between that stretch and this one was that they had and 8-3-1 before that streak started and were sitting in 8th instead of 15th at the end of it. This team, or any other team without elite offensive weapons in there primes are going to go through 8-10 game stretches where it seems like they can't score. Good teams will find a way to grind out wins & eventually the bounces will start going in the net and we'll see a reciprocal hot streak. This is still a very good team. I expect them to come out of this sooner rather then later.

#56 Manzivino

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:01 AM

They've already exceeded their worst 9 game stretch from last season, but not by much - they had two 8 point, 3-4-2 stretches in the second half of '10-11. As Spaulding says, it's just highlighted by it being the first 9 games of the season. The good news is the goaltending/defense is holding up (GA/game: '09-10, 2.33; '10-11, 2.30, '11-12, 2.33). They just can't finish right now (2.11 G/game, which is even worse than when they trailed the league two years ago). Even if they continue to inexplicably miss open nets for the entire season, the goaltending is still elite enough to make them a playoff-caliber team, but realistically they'll start taking advantage of scoring opportunities and winning some games. It's hard to feel like it's still early, but it's only 3 weeks in. At this point last year Buffalo had 7 points in 10 games (although obviously the Bruins aspire to higher than an 8 seed); Colorado was a 3 seed and Atlanta a 5 seed as late as December. There's something near 160 days left in the season and the Bruins are 7 points out of the division lead, it's far from doomsday.

#57 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:03 AM

Is it that they just can't finish now, or that they're a team made up of guys that can't finish? Because honestly I'm not buying the slump idea right now. They don't appear to be able to score to save their lives, and it's exactly like the team we saw a couple of years ago. Shooting the puck into the goalie's gut over and over and over again? I think I've seen this movie before.

Crazy to say it, but I wonder if they miss Ryder. Pouliot's been singularly unimpressive to me.

#58 cshea


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:14 AM

May Ryder, they may come to miss. They don't miss October Ryder. He failed to hit the 20 goal mark each of the last 2 seasons. I don't see how he'd be the answer to the scoring problems they're having right now.

#59 The Four Peters


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:16 AM

Is it that they just can't finish now, or that they're a team made up of guys that can't finish? Because honestly I'm not buying the slump idea right now. They don't appear to be able to score to save their lives, and it's exactly like the team we saw a couple of years ago. Shooting the puck into the goalie's gut over and over and over again? I think I've seen this movie before.

Crazy to say it, but I wonder if they miss Ryder. Pouliot's been singularly unimpressive to me.

Umm, it's the same team as last year that finished 5th in the league in scoring, minus a guy who scored 18 goals and a guy who had 14 goals. They don't miss Ryder or Recchi of last year, they miss the Krejci/Horton/Lucic of last year. The talent is there, the ability is there, the big guns just aren't performing for them. Until they do, the B's will continue to meander about in close games like this. It's really that simple. But trying to change history and make it seem like they miss a guy who disappeared for whole chunks of the regular season just isn't correct. This is on the players, they have the talent, they have the system, they just need to figure it out themselves and start putting the puck in the net.

I think they'll figure it out sooner rather than later, however it better not be too much later or the whole they have dug will be too deep. Spending the whole year point chasing is not fun and can end up being exhausting for the team come playoff time.

#60 Carmine Hose

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:20 AM

Outside of Seguin, they don't have any sniper types. The rest of the lot get goals through movement, crashing, and effort. Lucic is the poster boy. He's just an ogre who scores through brute force, not deftness. Weren't 7 of his 30 last year empty netters? The rest weren't of the pretty type.

#61 Spaulding Smails


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:24 AM

In the past during these stretches there was always the question of "is Claude on the hot seat" or "have they tuned him out"? I honestly feel like Claude has been more proactive with making changes this year and most of his quotes don't seem to indicate complacency so I don't have an issue with anything he is doing. As TFP said its all about the top players on this team just not showing up right now. Don't want to get into a situation similar to the Canes and Devils last year where they still missed the playoffs despite being white hot the last 2 months of the season.

#62 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:33 AM

Umm, it's the same team as last year that finished 5th in the league in scoring, minus a guy who scored 18 goals and a guy who had 14 goals. They don't miss Ryder or Recchi of last year, they miss the Krejci/Horton/Lucic of last year. The talent is there, the ability is there, the big guns just aren't performing for them. Until they do, the B's will continue to meander about in close games like this. It's really that simple. But trying to change history and make it seem like they miss a guy who disappeared for whole chunks of the regular season just isn't correct. This is on the players, they have the talent, they have the system, they just need to figure it out themselves and start putting the puck in the net.

I think they'll figure it out sooner rather than later, however it better not be too much later or the whole they have dug will be too deep. Spending the whole year point chasing is not fun and can end up being exhausting for the team come playoff time.

Down boy. I said I wondered if they miss Ryder, who for all his glaring flaws was at least one guy who could pick a corner once in a while. And Recchi's another good point, although he was pretty much toast towards the end of last year.

The last paragraph is exactly the type of situation I'm worried about this year. They're already digging a hole for themselves that looks like it could take a while to climb out of. I know a lot of people here have said they look OK but the results aren't coming at all and it's getting late early around here. They're already 7 points behind the division leader and trail the conference leader by 12 points. That's very troubling to me.

I don't know what they can do to get the big line going. They look lost out there.

#63 Manzivino

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:15 AM

Down boy. I said I wondered if they miss Ryder, who for all his glaring flaws was at least one guy who could pick a corner once in a while. And Recchi's another good point, although he was pretty much toast towards the end of last year.

The last paragraph is exactly the type of situation I'm worried about this year. They're already digging a hole for themselves that looks like it could take a while to climb out of. I know a lot of people here have said they look OK but the results aren't coming at all and it's getting late early around here. They're already 7 points behind the division leader and trail the conference leader by 12 points. That's very troubling to me.

I don't know what they can do to get the big line going. They look lost out there.


It's slightly worse than last year, when they were 5 behind the division leader and 10 behind the conference leader. Granted they weren't in last in the conference at that point, but it was also a month deeper into the season, on November 30th. It's not like the bad start doesn't matter, it obviously better to build up your margin of error early rather than burning it, but they're only 4 points out of a playoff spot with 90% of the schedule left. Again, it's a bad stretch exacerbated by being the beginning of the season. Are Ottawa and Florida really going to contend for a playoff spot all season? Is Toronto a 120 point team? They're not perfectly constructed (they're definitely in the market for a scoring winger and ideally I'd look for a Seidenberg-lite trade for an undervalued second pairing defenseman) and they need to start lifting shots and hitting open nets but we're a month away from it getting late early.

#64 BoSoxFink


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:39 AM

I know many people don't think they need it but this team could still desperately use a true 30 goal scorer on this team. They have been lacking that ever since they traded Kessel away. I know they won it all last year without one, even though Looch scored 30 I obviously don't think of him that way, but when you look at it I believe they got lucky in a lot of things went right for them to win without that type of player. I still think Chia needs to go out and find that goal scorer out there somewhere and take a little pressure off of Seguin to be their true offensive force since he is just a kid.

#65 SoxFan58


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:49 AM

Honest question to the nore knowledgeable hockey fans out there - at what point do you stop saying "it's early" and start really worrying? 5 more games, 10 more games?

Honestly curious.

#66 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:54 PM

Nore knowledgeable hockey fan here - I'd start worrying in another week. If they don't pull out of this funk in another week, I'd like Chia to use all the resources he has to shake things up.

One negative of bringing (essentially) the entire team back is that they can get complacent and they may already be. Shaking things up might get them going.

All this bullshit talk about not having the talent to win is stupid. The talent is there, they're creating chances, but they're not finishing. Complacency may have set in.

Edited by FL4WL3SS, 28 October 2011 - 12:54 PM.


#67 behindthepen


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:06 PM

Honest question to the nore knowledgeable hockey fans out there - at what point do you stop saying "it's early" and start really worrying? 5 more games, 10 more games?

Honestly curious.


98.5 posed that question to Corvo earlier this week. His answer was at 5 games under .500.

#68 BucketOBalls


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:46 PM

Honest question to the nore knowledgeable hockey fans out there - at what point do you stop saying "it's early" and start really worrying? 5 more games, 10 more games?

Honestly curious.


I would point out that I'm far from a knowledgeable hockey fan, but this isn't MLB. You have to be down right inept to miss the playoffs. Unless they get hit by a bunch of injuries, I don't think this is a sub-500 team.

#69 Eddie Jurak


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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:58 PM

What worried me about last night's game was not the lack of scoring, but the inept way they handled the puck in their own end in the third period. Montreal could have had 3 more goals in the third, all off of bad turnovers.

#70 Toe Nash

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:48 PM

I know many people don't think they need it but this team could still desperately use a true 30 goal scorer on this team. They have been lacking that ever since they traded Kessel away. I know they won it all last year without one, even though Looch scored 30 I obviously don't think of him that way, but when you look at it I believe they got lucky in a lot of things went right for them to win without that type of player. I still think Chia needs to go out and find that goal scorer out there somewhere and take a little pressure off of Seguin to be their true offensive force since he is just a kid.

I don't get it.

Everyone wants a great goal scorer, but as you said they won it all without one. There wasn't a goal scoring problem in the playoffs either -- Krejci, Marchand and Horton would have all had 31+ goals if you extrapolated their playoff paces over a full 82 games.

If there's someone available for a decent price, then yeah they should get him. But that's not likely and they should be alright with the guys they have, especially if Seguin steps up and Marchand continues his scoring touch.

#71 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 07:37 PM

I don't get it.

Everyone wants a great goal scorer, but as you said they won it all without one. There wasn't a goal scoring problem in the playoffs either -- Krejci, Marchand and Horton would have all had 31+ goals if you extrapolated their playoff paces over a full 82 games.

If there's someone available for a decent price, then yeah they should get him. But that's not likely and they should be alright with the guys they have, especially if Seguin steps up and Marchand continues his scoring touch.

I think most rational fans realize we don't need a 30 goal scorer.

#72 SoxScout


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 08:51 PM

1 4 0 2 2 1 6 2 1 2

goals scored

#73 Eddie Jurak


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:19 PM

Well... how long can this continue before Chiarelli HAS to do something? And if it reaches that point, what should he do?

#74 catomatic


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

1 4 0 2 2 1 6 2 1 2

goals scored


That's including the Plekanec snipe too.

#75 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

I hate to think any GM gets into a position where they think they HAVE to do something; that's how we get Meredith for Mirabelli trades.

That being said, the current situation cannot continue. As pointed out above, the goal scoring is completely unacceptable, and October is ending with a miserable record and last place in the conference. It's not too early to be very worried about the team's prospects this season. We've seen nothing remotely close to the form they had just last year.

#76 Blacken


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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:49 PM

I wonder if they should bring Hamill up. 5g, 4a in 10 games. I still don't think he's a bona-fide NHLer, but maybe he could provide some spark.

Some spark while you fucking bench Horton, that is. As said wisely by...somebody, in the game thread, he's been an asshole all year.

Edited by Blacken, 29 October 2011 - 09:49 PM.


#77 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:02 AM

Lucic - Krejci - Seguin
Marchand - Bergeron - Hamill
Kelly - Peverley - Horton
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
Scratches: Pouliot, Caron

Feel free to swap MacDermid with Paille and Sauvé with Hamill once Sauvé gets healthy. I firmly believe that this team does not need a trade to contend this season. Call it blind optimism, but one ten game stretch of futility (remember the 9 game losing streak of two seasons past?) does not a season make. Bag skate them to hell and shake up the roster from within - it doesn't take a trade to get players' attention.

And FFS fire Geoff Ward already.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 30 October 2011 - 12:07 AM.


#78 cshea


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:50 AM

I don't think they need a trade either. It's been a rough 10-game stretch, but the pieces are there. They endured a 10-game losing streak 2 years ago and still got into the playoffs. I feel like right now they're at the point where they're pressing way too much. Once they get a win, I think they'll settle in and get going.

I said it in the game thread, but my guess is that if Chiarelli pulls the trigger on something, it'll be a Kobasew-esque deal. Something like Boychuk/Corvo out for a draft pick. Kampfer gets that spot, and then they call up a defenseman from Providence. It's a move that would shake-up the dressing room a bit (Boychuk more so than Corvo), and one where they have internal options to replace the guy moving out. I don't think they're going to trade a major asset just to shake things up after a poor 10-game stretch to open the season. That would be incredibly short sighted.

Edit: And, yes, fire Geoff Ward. I've been calling for his head for 2-years, why stop now?

Edited by cshea, 30 October 2011 - 07:50 AM.


#79 TheoShmeo


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:17 AM

I raised this point in another thread (that I started) but in my view it's inescapable now that the failure to adequately replace the offense they lost in Rex/Ryder -- 89 points in the regular season and two of the top 6 scorers in the playoffs and 7 in the regular season -- is a huge contributor to what's going on.

It's clearly not everything. Some players are under performing. Cup Hangover, etc. Other factors.

But losing that production without real replacements in the line-up, and hoping that the gap would be filled by the Seguin jump and whatever else Chia was hoping for, seems to be a lot of what ails this team right now.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 30 October 2011 - 09:17 AM.


#80 TheShynessClinic


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:15 AM

Michael Ryder has 4 pts in Dallas.
Mark Recchi is retired.

Your premise was wrong before, it continues to be wrong now. The Bruins would be no better now with those two than they are without. Seguin is currently on pace for 32 goals and 48 assists. He single handedly has made up the difference in them being gone. Assuming he would make the leap to make up for their absence was optimistic, but ultimately correct.

This team has numerous problems right now, that we failed to replace R&R with in house options is not one of them.

#81 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:17 AM

I raised this point in another thread (that I started) but in my view it's inescapable now that the failure to adequately replace the offense they lost in Rex/Ryder -- 89 points in the regular season and two of the top 6 scorers in the playoffs and 7 in the regular season -- is a huge contributor to what's going on.

It's clearly not everything. Some players are under performing. Cup Hangover, etc. Other factors.

But losing that production without real replacements in the line-up, and hoping that the gap would be filled by the Seguin jump and whatever else Chia was hoping for, seems to be a lot of what ails this team right now.

I think everyone here can agree that we didn't want to replace them with anyone. I think it was time to give the spot to some younger guys to see how they reacted. The Bruins have (had) the luxury of letting the in-house roster shake out and then making adjustments as the season progressed if it wasn't working out. Right now, we're seeing it not working out and I'm sure Chiarelli won't sit idle too much longer.

It's not as bleak as it seems right now, there's too much talent on this team and in the organization for them to sleepwalk through the entire season.

I'm more concerned with the development of the Providence guys. They fired Murray at the end of last season because he sucked at developing offensive talent, but then they replaced him with an in-house guy and they're having the same problems. At this point, I loathe to see guys like Knight put under the Providence leadership. Makes me wonder if Hamill could have actually been something decent with the right coaching in Providence.

#82 Toe Nash

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:27 AM

I raised this point in another thread (that I started) but in my view it's inescapable now that the failure to adequately replace the offense they lost in Rex/Ryder -- 89 points in the regular season and two of the top 6 scorers in the playoffs and 7 in the regular season -- is a huge contributor to what's going on.

It's clearly not everything. Some players are under performing. Cup Hangover, etc. Other factors.

But losing that production without real replacements in the line-up, and hoping that the gap would be filled by the Seguin jump and whatever else Chia was hoping for, seems to be a lot of what ails this team right now.

Seguin has a PPG. He's nearly replaced what they were getting from Ryder and Recchi by himself.

But Horton and especially Krejci (who's likely not 100%) are struggling and have 6 points total. Add in some bad luck and some stupid penalties and inopportune sloppy play, and there you have it.

It's not like they're getting blown out. They've only lost one game by more than one, discounting ENG. They need to work on discipline, defense and fundamentals, which is when they're at their best, and the goals will come. Too often when the Bruins get in a rut they think they need to hit everyone and play "Big Bad Bruins" style, and this leads to stupid penalties like we saw yesterday. It's a fine line between intimidating and stupid, and especially in Montreal it's real easy to cross that line and take penalties.

#83 Eddie Jurak


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:52 AM

I'm more concerned with the development of the Providence guys. They fired Murray at the end of last season because he sucked at developing offensive talent, but then they replaced him with an in-house guy and they're having the same problems. At this point, I loathe to see guys like Knight put under the Providence leadership. Makes me wonder if Hamill could have actually been something decent with the right coaching in Providence.

I'm not sure how much forward talent there really is in Providence. Sauve is the one guy who looks to have top 6 potential, but the biggest factor holding him back has been his inability to stay healthy. Caron, maybe, but to me his offensive upside looks more like fringe top 6, and he's not getting much of an opportunity to prove himself anyway. Hammill, maybe, but needs to come a long way to get there.
Otherwise Providence forwards are mostly have bottom 6 guys: Arniel, Cunningham, MacDermid, etc., but bottom 6 is where the Bruins' NHL roster is most solid and deep.

#84 Manzivino

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:04 AM

As has been mentioned, Seguin is a PPG player so far this season, which all but makes up for Ryder and Recchi by itself all else being equal. The problem with the offense is that Seguin and Kelly are the only two forwards on pace to exceed their offensive production from last season. You don't score a lot of goals when 10 of your 13 forwards underperform to varying degrees, especially when your #1 center gets hurt and puts up a 1-0-1 through 10 games.

Quite frankly, the better argument to be made for goal production not replaced in the offseason is that they got 29 likely unrepeatable goals out of Campbell/Thornton/Paille last season, so they should have been looking at a 10% reduction in offense as the starting point for this season regardless of Recchi and Ryder leaving. And still, Seguin's bump in production and a functional PP probably bridge the gap and keep them a top-10 offensive club if everybody else on the roster hadn't forgotten how to score. It's not like everybody's playing well and they just don't have the firepower; the vast majority of the team is in a scoring funk. The bottom line is that we don't miss Recchi and Ryder, we miss the rest of the '10-11 Bruins who haven't shown up during this season.

Also, fire Geoff Ward. They have 5 PP goals on the season; one was the Seguin-Marchand breakout pass in the season opener, another is the fluke own goal against Montreal on Thursday. That's 10 games worth of PPs with 3 goals coming from the actual PP strategy being executed. That's horrific and not new.

#85 ngruz25


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:30 AM

It's one thing if the PP is generating lots of chances and they're not converting, but they're not getting any clean shots on the PP. The one exception was the post that Krejci nailed yesterday. They move the puck okay along the perimeter but can't do anything below the hash marks. The forwards can cycle just fine, but the point of cycling is to eventually find an open man as someone on the PK will get themselves out of position. Their strategy makes little use of the D-men other than to have them feed the forwards along the halfboards. The walk-in-and-shoot from the halfboards does nothing at all - usually the shot doesn't get through and any momentum they had is lost. And if the D are shooting, it's from near the blue line. Of course, those shots aren't getting through either.

That seems to me to be a textbook failure in PP strategy. I'd love to see the D sneaking in for one-timers from the top of the faceoff circle on occasion.

#86 erfus

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:45 AM

Well... how long can this continue before Chiarelli HAS to do something? And if it reaches that point, what should he do?


The team really needs to replace Krejci, Horton, Seidenberg, Marchand, and to a lesser extent Lucic with the 2010 version of themselves. Maybe that's not realistic, maybe some of them peaked last season. I really think Chiarelli should be more active next offseason and not rest on his and the team's laurels. This slow start is a function of what seemed like a conscious decision to bring back the team almost in whole and depend on improvement from within to repeat. It doesn't seem to have worked just yet, but I do think it's still early and I don't think it's as bleak as it looks with so many close games not going the Bruins way. If they don't turn it around, I actually hope they just bite the bullet. Trades are fine if they help the team, but I see no need to do something for the sake of doing it. I do think there's some redundancy at center and they still need a puck moving defenseman (and are short a top 9 winger) but if that fit isn't there, I'm OK with trying out long shots like Hamill. They really can't do much worse.

The other thing is that Rask needs to step up. Thomas is not having a super-human season like he did last year and Rask has a shot here. I know his time has been limited which can affect performance, but Thomas ain't getting younger and neither is Tuukka. With Rask approaching RFA status, if his peformance doesn't improve, maybe it's time to consider contingency plans for Thomas' successor and cash in on Rask while he's still considered a young, future #1. Maybe you can bundle Rask with an underacheiving forward to make a big splash pickup of a fellow RFA to be.

#87 Titoschew

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:52 AM

I'm more concerned with the development of the Providence guys. They fired Murray at the end of last season because he sucked at developing offensive talent, but then they replaced him with an in-house guy and they're having the same problems. At this point, I loathe to see guys like Knight put under the Providence leadership. Makes me wonder if Hamill could have actually been something decent with the right coaching in Providence.


Joe Colborne nods his head in approval.

edit: spelling

Edited by Titoschew, 30 October 2011 - 11:53 AM.


#88 Eddie Jurak


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:57 AM

he other thing is that Rask needs to step up. Thomas is not having a super-human season like he did last year and Rask has a shot here. I know his time has been limited which can affect performance, but Thomas ain't getting younger and neither is Tuukka. With Rask approaching RFA status, if his peformance doesn't improve, maybe it's time to consider contingency plans for Thomas' successor and cash in on Rask while he's still considered a young, future #1. Maybe you can bundle Rask with an underacheiving forward to make a big splash pickup of a fellow RFA to be.

But Rask has had virtually no shot here. Three starts in 10 games? I think it's bad strategy to count on a Thomas for another 82 starts this year.

#89 soxfan121


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:36 PM

Also, fire Geoff Ward. ... That's horrific and not new.


I'll go into this corner and risk the resulting charge/elbow-to-the-skull that will accompany it...

You're all talking about firing the wrong guy. I'm NOT saying CJ is a bad coach; his system schooled players in two-way effectiveness and responsibilities which led directly to last spring's triumph. But the coach is heavily invested in a regular season philosophy that de-emphasizes aggressiveness in the offensive end. He has a rigid approach and that approach has, in the past, worked with a young roster that needed to learn responsible two-way hockey. Now it is holding those same players from progressing. The talent is not the problem; it's the tactical use of the talent. Playing not to lose works, most of the time, in the NHL regular season. It's not working now and it doesn't work in the playoffs. This team is playing the same way they did last season before Neely had to issue the 'you can't win 0-0' speech.

That's not Geoff Ward. He might be part of the problem but not a majority. And the problem isn't gonna be fixed by trading Boychuck for a pick or other such nonsense. It'll come with the banishment of Paille & Campbell to healthy scratches and rolling 3 legit lines that can score, with a 4th "checking" line of Kelly-Thornton-Peverley.

Another month of this type of play will doom the Bruins to watching TV in April. Make the move now and there's still a chance that the "hangover" doesn't keep them from a chance at defending the title.

#90 Manzivino

  • 2001 posts

Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:47 PM

They don't look to me like they're playing tentatively offensively or playing not to lose; they're getting a ton of chances offensively and aren't executing. Hell, they're not executing all that well in the defensive end either but their goalies are good enough that only the offensive struggles have been a real problem. I also don't know how you plan on coming up with 3 "legit lines that can score", since none of the lines not involving Seguin can score at all right now and you want to drop 3 of those top-9 forwards to the fourth line and replace them with . . . who? Caron? Hamill? Sauve? Shit, if they had the talent in the organization to push Peverley and Kelly down to the 4th line, then Peverley and Kelly wouldn't be in the organization. I mean just to be clear, some of us are advocating replacing the assistant coach whose area of responsibility has been below-average to abysmal for 2+ years, and whose firing might provide a spark without involving a massive upheaval. You are advocating that a team that won the Cup 4 months ago should fire their coach and change their entire organizational philosophy and leadership (since if you want a team that rolls 3 lines with a classic checking line that gets minimal minutes, you're saying you either want Chiarelli to drastically alter his views on team building or you want him replaced) after 10 bad games, not to mention finding a good head coach who would take a job in an organization where a championship doesn't buy you a month of goodwill.

Also, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but anyone who thinks that the organization is going to make a major, roster-redefining deal in an effort to defend the title this season is setting themselves up for disappointment. Last year was a "go for it now" year because everybody's job was on the line; they needed to get past the second round and were a bad bounce in Game 7 against Montreal from everybody being summarily fired. I doubt anybody in the FO feels any pressure coming off of the Cup win; in fact, just the opposite, I think their whole philosophy on this season is going to be patience and faith that things will work themselves out, a philosophy that they will feel particularly justified in given they won a Cup in large part because they didn't panic and blow everything up after the blown 3-0 lead against Philly, and have the majority of the Cup roster plus non-rookie Seguin intact. They will tinker around the edges, they might make a Kobasew-esque "get your heads out of your asses" trade as cshea suggests, but I would be absolutely shocked if they did anything drastic. If last year was "ECF or bust", this year is "Just get to the playoffs healthy". Yes, they still have to get to the playoffs, but we're way too early to say that's a realistic danger.

#91 Toe Nash

  • 2740 posts

Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:11 PM

I'll go into this corner and risk the resulting charge/elbow-to-the-skull that will accompany it...

You're all talking about firing the wrong guy. I'm NOT saying CJ is a bad coach; his system schooled players in two-way effectiveness and responsibilities which led directly to last spring's triumph. But the coach is heavily invested in a regular season philosophy that de-emphasizes aggressiveness in the offensive end. He has a rigid approach and that approach has, in the past, worked with a young roster that needed to learn responsible two-way hockey. Now it is holding those same players from progressing. The talent is not the problem; it's the tactical use of the talent. Playing not to lose works, most of the time, in the NHL regular season. It's not working now and it doesn't work in the playoffs. This team is playing the same way they did last season before Neely had to issue the 'you can't win 0-0' speech.

That's not Geoff Ward. He might be part of the problem but not a majority. And the problem isn't gonna be fixed by trading Boychuck for a pick or other such nonsense. It'll come with the banishment of Paille & Campbell to healthy scratches and rolling 3 legit lines that can score, with a 4th "checking" line of Kelly-Thornton-Peverley.

Another month of this type of play will doom the Bruins to watching TV in April. Make the move now and there's still a chance that the "hangover" doesn't keep them from a chance at defending the title.


And we have our first call to fire the first coach to bring us a Cup in nearly 40 years. Congratulations. There is absolutely nothing that will please some fans in this town.

Edit: And to add some substance, Campbell is one of the better PKers in the league. Scratching him is asinine.

Edited by Toe Nash, 30 October 2011 - 02:12 PM.


#92 OldSaintJohn


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 05:33 PM

I've noticed that on many occasions, the breakout from the defensive zone is awful. Corvo seems to be the only guy willing to skate with the puck. Everyone else seems to want to just try and force the puck to center ice and rely on the forwards to make something happen. If they're going to keep using Chara/Seidenberg/Corvo on the power play, I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to swap Boychuk for someone a little more willing to help with the breakout.

#93 FL4WL3SS


  • Mrs. Dennis Wideman


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:29 PM

I'll go into this corner and risk the resulting charge/elbow-to-the-skull that will accompany it...

You're all talking about firing the wrong guy. I'm NOT saying CJ is a bad coach; his system schooled players in two-way effectiveness and responsibilities which led directly to last spring's triumph. But the coach is heavily invested in a regular season philosophy that de-emphasizes aggressiveness in the offensive end. He has a rigid approach and that approach has, in the past, worked with a young roster that needed to learn responsible two-way hockey. Now it is holding those same players from progressing. The talent is not the problem; it's the tactical use of the talent. Playing not to lose works, most of the time, in the NHL regular season. It's not working now and it doesn't work in the playoffs. This team is playing the same way they did last season before Neely had to issue the 'you can't win 0-0' speech.

That's not Geoff Ward. He might be part of the problem but not a majority. And the problem isn't gonna be fixed by trading Boychuck for a pick or other such nonsense. It'll come with the banishment of Paille & Campbell to healthy scratches and rolling 3 legit lines that can score, with a 4th "checking" line of Kelly-Thornton-Peverley.

Another month of this type of play will doom the Bruins to watching TV in April. Make the move now and there's still a chance that the "hangover" doesn't keep them from a chance at defending the title.

You're an idiot.

#94 BoSoxFink


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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:24 PM

You're an idiot.

Yea and you are an all knowing hockey mind right? Does it make you feel better putting other people down on the Internet? Just because someone doesnt agree with your idea doesn't make them wrong everytime.

Wait let me try like you.......I think any "rational" hockey/Bruins fan doesn't think the Bruins need a change at head coach. Is that how I should answer it? You can be such a tool sometimes.


Now to answer the actual post. I don't think the answer is firing Julien at this point. This team played hard for him last year and have stated many times last year and the year prior that they enjoy playing for him. His style can be boring at times, there is no doubt about that, and while I agree that I don't think it leads to the "aggressiveness" you are talking about, it has been proven that if things go the right away and you get a lot of luck in matchups, you can win the Cup playing that style. Although I do believe it will be extremely hard to do it again. Here is to hoping I am wrong about that.

I still think they could use another goal scorer despite what some people say in this thread, it will make a huge difference. They have too many of the same type of player in Kelly, Paille, Campbell etc. There is no doubt that those players are useful and can add a tremendous amount of character to any team, but at some point they become totally redundant. It would be good to replace one of them with someone who has a little more talent at putting the puck in the net. I have seen Doan mentioned and he would be perfect. I am not saying you can't win the cup without that pure goal scorer on your team, the Bruins proved it could be done last year. But it would sure make it a hell of a lot easier if you had one.

Edited by BoSoxFink, 30 October 2011 - 10:31 PM.


#95 FL4WL3SS


  • Mrs. Dennis Wideman


  • 5814 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:02 AM

Yea and you are an all knowing hockey mind right? Does it make you feel better putting other people down on the Internet? Just because someone doesnt agree with your idea doesn't make them wrong everytime.

Wait let me try like you.......I think any "rational" hockey/Bruins fan doesn't think the Bruins need a change at head coach. Is that how I should answer it? You can be such a tool sometimes.


Now to answer the actual post. I don't think the answer is firing Julien at this point. This team played hard for him last year and have stated many times last year and the year prior that they enjoy playing for him. His style can be boring at times, there is no doubt about that, and while I agree that I don't think it leads to the "aggressiveness" you are talking about, it has been proven that if things go the right away and you get a lot of luck in matchups, you can win the Cup playing that style. Although I do believe it will be extremely hard to do it again. Here is to hoping I am wrong about that.

I still think they could use another goal scorer despite what some people say in this thread, it will make a huge difference. They have too many of the same type of player in Kelly, Paille, Campbell etc. There is no doubt that those players are useful and can add a tremendous amount of character to any team, but at some point they become totally redundant. It would be good to replace one of them with someone who has a little more talent at putting the puck in the net. I have seen Doan mentioned and he would be perfect. I am not saying you can't win the cup without that pure goal scorer on your team, the Bruins proved it could be done last year. But it would sure make it a hell of a lot easier if you had one.

You're an idiot.

#96 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:22 AM

Here I'll add some substance - It's 10 games into the season and Julien should be fired after having won the Cup last season? Should Belichick have been fired in 2002 because he went 9-7 and missed the playoffs? How about in 2005 when the same story happened? I know I'm a tool, but I also know a stupid idea when I see one.

They have too many of the same type of player in Kelly, Paille, Campbell etc.

You live in a fantasy world - the team can't be made up of all-stars, we need some 3rd and 4th line players. Sorry there pinky, but the 4th line players aren't the problem. There is more than one way to skin a cat and the Bruins decided that strong defense and strong 2-way players is the way to go. They rely on their defense and their strong goaltending and awesome 5-on-5 play. We've been hearing the same whiny bullshit for 3 years now. Let me fill you in, here is the Bruins G/G the last 3 years and where they ranked relative to the rest of the league:

2.98 - 5th (Holy shit ahead of Anaheim who had mr. 50 goal scorer)
2.39 - Dead last (hmm, which season sticks out as an aberration?)
3.29 - 2nd (Ahead of Pittsburgh, who had both Malkin and Crosby scoring out of their ass)

They don't need a stud goal scorer, they've proven it works without one. They'd rather win with depth and overall talent than relying on one guy to score all the goals. Ask Calgary how that's turned out.

Their style may not be what you want, but it's how they've chosen to construct the team. They won the Cup last year, so you may not like it, but it fucking works. You could always go be a Vancouver fan, you'd fit right in.

Edited by FL4WL3SS, 31 October 2011 - 06:23 AM.


#97 soxfan121


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Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:47 AM

Here I'll add some substance - It's 10 games into the season and Julien should be fired after having won the Cup last season? Should Belichick have been fired in 2002 because he went 9-7 and missed the playoffs? How about in 2005 when the same story happened? I know I'm a tool, but I also know a stupid idea when I see one.


First, I expected to take a few cheap shots on the post, so "idiot" is actually exceeding expectations.

Second, that analogy is worthless because Belichick wasn't going to be fired if he didn't make the playoffs in 2001, nor was he getting fired if he lost a first round series. Claude was. He was a rally in Montreal from unemployed and I *KNOW* that such a smart, dedicated, informed hockey fan such as yourself is aware of this. I know a stupid analogy when I see one.

Last, where in the list of "responsible individuals" does CJ rank for the Cup win? It's my contention that the talent is not being utilized properly and it because of the system.

2.98 - 5th (Holy shit ahead of Anaheim who had mr. 50 goal scorer)
2.39 - Dead last (hmm, which season sticks out as an aberration?)
3.29 - 2nd (Ahead of Pittsburgh, who had both Malkin and Crosby scoring out of their ass)


What is it this year? And would that also be "aberration" or perhaps a reflection of what happens when too much ice time is given to un-skilled grinders who play great two way hockey and can't finish? The Bruins are far too reliant on their top 2 lines for scoring and when one of the top 6 slumps, they struggle. When more than one struggles, they're in last place in November. If it goes on like this (and it has, in the past, as you admit)...at what point does it get too late to make up ground?

#98 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:53 AM

First, I expected to take a few cheap shots on the post, so "idiot" is actually exceeding expectations.

I'm a tool, BSF has pointed that out. I've been around here long enough where I'd think people wouldn't take me serious. I was just giving you a hard time because you said you expected it. I guess some people didn't get the joke.

What is it this year? And would that also be "aberration" or perhaps a reflection of what happens when too much ice time is given to un-skilled grinders who play great two way hockey and can't finish? The Bruins are far too reliant on their top 2 lines for scoring and when one of the top 6 slumps, they struggle. When more than one struggles, they're in last place in November. If it goes on like this (and it has, in the past, as you admit)...at what point does it get too late to make up ground?

Again, we're 10 games in, not exactly a full sample size. Come see me in January and then we'll talk. There were 10 game stretches last season where the Bruins weren't exactly lighting the lamp on fire, but those cold streaks happen. And it's not like the Bruins don't have an excuse, they're coming off of a lot of extra games from the playoffs (and it's not like they breezed through those games, it was a fucking battle and a lot of 7 game series). Every team goes through cold streaks, ours just happens to come at the beginning of the season after coming off of a Stanley Cup victory (and a lot of partying).

Regardless of how the Red Sox season ended, you only have to look at how they started their season to realize that you can't tell much from the first 10 games of the season. They were the best team in baseball for 5 months.

#99 soxfan121


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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:42 AM

1. "Idiot" was mild, compared to what I was expecting. No worries.

2. I've never been a CJ fan and two months of Tim Thomas standing on his freaking head didn't make me change my opinion of him. Actually, I'm a fan of CJ for a young, undisciplined team that needs to learn two-way hockey. He has proven he will not alter his philosophy, which is both good (he believes in what he believes in and sticks to it) and bad (he does not adapt without a struggle and an admonishment from his boss). And had Thomas not been otherworldly last spring, CJ would already be unemployed. That's not even debatable.

3. It is my belief that the Bruins have the talent to play a slightly more aggressive, scoring brand of hockey without giving up their core philosophies (strong in both zones, 5-on-5 play, etc.) It's also my belief that CJ will not adapt to the strengths of his roster and will instead continue to "jam square pegs into round holes" because he has a "system". It's the unwillingness or inability to adapt that prompts my "call" for his job.

4. Firing Geoff Ward is shuffling deck chairs, IMO. If there's a coaching problem, it starts higher up than Geoff Ward. Anyone calling for Ward's job should be looking higher than that, IMO. Part of that is personnel - Kelly, Paille & Campbell are great PK players and add little to nothing else. There's no need for all three but because they play they way CJ prefers, they get ice time and Caron goes back to Providence. I know Kelly, Paille & Campbell aren't going to score very often - they aren't skilled in that way. Yet the problem is scoring...so how do they help?

5. If the Bruins continue to play the way they have, making a move in January will not help them make the playoffs. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and they are about to flip a switch and get right back into the mix. But from what I've seen, it's a team that does not have a goalie turning in one of the greatest seasons in history and a bunch of square pegs in round holes, with the resulting gaps leading to uneven performances and a dearth of scoring. YMMV.

#100 FL4WL3SS


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Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:03 AM

You're entitled to your opinion, but not many coaches can put "Stanley Cup winning coach" next to their name.

2. I've never been a CJ fan and two months of Tim Thomas standing on his freaking head didn't make me change my opinion of him.

You are completely discrediting the rest of the team by saying this and it's being disingenuous. Krejci, Marchand, Chara/Seidenberg all did as much to win that championship as Thomas did. If you want to say the team won in spite of Claude, then so be it, but the Bruins didn't win the cup solely because Thomas was great.




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