131 replies to this topic

[rembrat]

Touchy, touchy. I said I like your B's coverage too!

Btw, I'm pretty sure I saw you talking about the kegs stands on CSNNE and I obviously knew you were joking. My point still stands though. I think jumping on the Heidi out of the blue appeared rather small and unnecessary.

-- Debbie Downer

heh... phrasing.

[CaptainLaddie]

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!

[Beomoose]

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!

I think we all know who wins the thread.

[Darnell's Son]

I think we all know who wins the thread.

So it can be closed? Seriously, what a total waste of board space and attention. Two basic nobodies(sorry Hags), get three pages of posting over a twitter flamewar, over comments made by Felgey?? Pretty lame.

[HomeBrew1901]

So it can be closed? Seriously, what a total waste of board space and attention. Two basic nobodies(sorry Hags), get three pages of posting over a twitter flamewar, over comments made by Felgey?? Pretty lame.

I think it has been a fun distraction/side story.

I also think it is kind of funny that you are calling the main Boston Bruins writer a nobody while templesox is calling Felger a "local radio host" in another thread as if Boston is just a small town or city like Manchester NH. (no offense Judge)

[Darnell's Son]

I think it has been a fun distraction/side story.

I also think it is kind of funny that you are calling the main Boston Bruins writer a nobody while templesox is calling Felger a "local radio host" in another thread as if Boston is just a small town or city like Manchester NH. (no offense Judge)

I agree that it is a fun distraction/story, which is why P&G exists. If this split off thread wasn't in this forum, I would be in the same boat as you. And yes, I still stand by my opinion that the Bruins "main writer" is a relative nobody compared to names that are the headlines of threads in this forum. And this is meant as no slight towards you, but how is Felger not a "local radio host"? I think he's talented albeit rather obnoxious, but he hosts a show that is on FM in Boston. That's the definition of local radio host, no?

[EddieYost]

is just a small town or city like Manchester NH.

Manch Vegas?

[SoxScout]

Watney on Toucher and Rich

[SoxScout]

-- "I won't say exactly what Felger said, the rumor is not true, but never let it get in the way a good story."

-- "Tony Mazz texted me, 'no one can control Felger'."

-- "So upsetting people saying I'm not a reporter."

-- "I'm from a very strong Christian household. NESN policy not to talk about rumors."

-- "Crawford silly rumor, attached itself to a false rumor. We have a great relationship. He was referencing a team spokesperson."

-- "Why would Joe say that, journalistic integrity? I'm not TMZ. This is undeserved. I can't stop anyone. I don't have a beef. I'm sad Felger brought me into this mud slinging."

-- "So sad this is forcing Ortiz wanting to leave. He won't come on NESN with me now."

Holy shit I think she is crying. She might be having a mental breakdown.

Edited by SoxScout, 13 October 2011 - 08:17 AM.

[Foulkey Reese]

I hope you bullies are happy.

[NickEsasky]

I hope you bullies are happy.

I am happy to offer my services to console her.

[doc]

I am happy to offer my services to console her.

Go talk to the Captain!

[PeaceSignMoose]

Go talk to the Captain!

He's just the team spokesman!

[FL4WL3SS]

Haggs, you're better than this. Let's do another Bruins chat.

-FL4WL3SS

[Haunted]

Holy shit I think she is crying. She might be having a mental breakdown.

I noticed that too (how could you not?). This might be the most interesting media week of all time. Stories have unleashed anger, rage, disappointment, hilarity, cringing... what more could we ask for as a media-consuming public?!

[PedroSpecialK]

Crying? That lawyer got to her real quick.

[cheekydave]

This makes me wonder what hilarity and drama would have ensued if we had twitter,facebook etc during the years of the Billy Martin Reggie Jackson Thurman Munson Yankees. OR pick any team.

[Salem's Lot]

I think the only enjoyable part of this Red Sox season has been listening to the media in this town eviscerate the team & each other. I can't wait for next weeks' Theo hatchet piece. Get your popcorn ready.

[Greg Pirkl's Sleeve Tats]

Haggs, you're better than this. Let's do another Bruins chat.

-FL4WL3SS

Happy to do one whenever you guys are up for it...I'll have two off days in Chicago, so we could it tomorrow if there's enough interest.

Was asleep in Carolina when Heidi did interview this morning with Toucher and Rich. Just listened to it now. She sounded a bit emotional and I certainly feel badly things impacted her in that way. But I would have been all over Greg Dickerson (or any other sideline reporter for that matter) if they started lecturing others on "journalistic integrity" on twitter. I would rip myself if I started lecturing somebody else on "journalistic integrity." IMO, We all live in glass houses when we start climbing the moral high ground. Was nothing personal toward her at all, but one thing I've learned being in the public eye is that you need to develop a bit of a thick skin to work in Boston.

--Haggs

[JimMonaghan]

Bottom line, Joe?

You had the chance to take the high road and blew it.

[soxfan121]

Bottom line, Joe?

You had the chance to take the high road and blew it.

Go fuck yourself. You had the chance to take the high road and posted this instead.

I don't begrudge her one bit for being angry and emotional about the Varitek rumor being discussed on TSH. That said, she certainly knew of some issues in the clubhouse well before any of this hit the fan. I guess NESN policy is to ignore anything negative about the team. Her issue with Haggerty is this:

HackswithHaggs Joe Haggerty

@HeidiWatney Given what was going inside clubhouse at Fenway while NESN cranked out happy calliope music, not sure exactly what U report on

I don't buy, for one nanosecond, that NESN's representative media member in the clubhouse didn't know anything was going on. So either she was told not to report on it or she chose not to report it. Either way, she's disqualified from delivering a critique of journalistic ethics.

[JimMonaghan]

Your mileage may vary.

[Caspir]

Bottom line, Joe?

You had the chance to take the high road and blew it.

Your avatar is blurry which prevents us from taking you seriously. Either that, or I have a cataract.

[JimMonaghan]

I didn't realize avatar quality was equated to the merit of a post. I'll get right on that.

[Dogman2]

Go fuck yourself. You had the chance to take the high road and posted this instead.

I don't begrudge her one bit for being angry and emotional about the Varitek rumor being discussed on TSH. That said, she certainly knew of some issues in the clubhouse well before any of this hit the fan. I guess NESN policy is to ignore anything negative about the team. Her issue with Haggerty is this:

Or their policy is to not throw shit against the wall if it is very possible you don't have all the factual detail. Instead, these reports are all coming out with 'Unnamed Sources' in which their are a ton of inaccuracies. Using an article with that many discrepancies is the basis for Watney's original tweets regarding Felger.

I don't buy, for one nanosecond, that NESN's representative media member in the clubhouse didn't know anything was going on. So either she was told not to report on it or she chose not to report it. Either way, she's disqualified from delivering a critique of journalistic ethics

.

When your line of attack features insulting someone's job description by basically saying you aren't a real reporter, you make it personal. Haggs is full of shit if he is saying it wasn't a personal attack disguised as a professional attack. Thick skin indeed.

[lexrageorge]

...
I don't buy, for one nanosecond, that NESN's representative media member in the clubhouse didn't know anything was going on. So either she was told not to report on it or she chose not to report it. Either way, she's disqualified from delivering a critique of journalistic ethics.

If NESN told her not to report on clubhouse issues, or if NESN has a policy that would forbid her, she's hardly breaching "journalistic ethics" by not reporting on it. She works for NESN, not for the SoSH posters.

As has been mentioned here, reporters with clubhouse access need to turn a blind eye to what they see in the clubhouse. It's one of those unwritten rules that cannot be broken, unless she wants her career to go away. Granted, it's a bit different when a team source mentions something to a reporter. But last I checked investigative reporting wasn't in Heidi's job description.

[FL4WL3SS]

Let me just say, I was at a Yankees game on Labor Day weekend and there was someone here kind enough to get me into the EMC club before the game. Well, let's just say I saw Heidi up there and we made eye contact and I'm pretty sure we're in love.

[JCizzle]

Heidi comes out of this looking great after the T&R interview. Well played on her part.

[PortageeExpress]

Fred should have asked her about Nick Green.

[NortheasternPJ]

If NESN told her not to report on clubhouse issues, or if NESN has a policy that would forbid her, she's hardly breaching "journalistic ethics" by not reporting on it. She works for NESN, not for the SoSH posters.

We had an event at Fenway in early September and one of the perks was that Heidi showed up for a half hour to hang out and answer questions and take pics (which was the primary reason). Based on what she said, she's very aware of her position and what her role on NESN is. What she said was pretty much "They pay me to provide color to the game, whether that's food stories, or stories about different stadiums etc. they don't pay me to talk about stats and sabermetrics" (although she claimed she could if they wanted her to) I'm sure she's very aware that's she not a hard hitting journalist.

I don't see why the fact that she's not a real reporter on the team, instead she's a color analyst/reporter, should prevent her for coming down on Felger and basically saying he's full of shit and knows nothing about it. Whether she's telling the truth or not, is another story.

I'm still lost how Haggs got involved.

[Dogman2]

I'm still lost how Haggs got involved.

Haggs was defending the honor of 'real journalists' when the conversation had nothing to do with him.

Shallow, cheap and petty.

Edited by Dogman2, 13 October 2011 - 01:52 PM.

[dolomite133]

If NESN told her not to report on clubhouse issues, or if NESN has a policy that would forbid her, she's hardly breaching "journalistic ethics" by not reporting on it. She works for NESN, not for the SoSH posters.

As has been mentioned here, reporters with clubhouse access need to turn a blind eye to what they see in the clubhouse. It's one of those unwritten rules that cannot be broken, unless she wants her career to go away. Granted, it's a bit different when a team source mentions something to a reporter. But last I checked investigative reporting wasn't in Heidi's job description.

There are a couple of ways of looking at this situation.

First, media people who work for the team's mouthpiece can't be hard-hitting. They just can't. That's simply not what they are paid to do. However, those journalists are, by default, practicing lousy journalism and should never, ever lecture anyone on what "good journalism" is. People like Heidi are professional journalists, but they are not journalists with integrity. That's not because of who they are or what they are capable of, but because of who they work for and what they are paid to do.

Second, Haggs criticisms are probably correct. However, it's incredibly bad form for journalists to attack each other publicly like this. This sounds like something that would happen between college journalists. But for this to happen in Boston, a huge sports market, where sports journalists are supposed to act like professionals ... maybe this just shows the huge difference between news and sports reporters. I don't know that you'd ever catch news reporters pulling this bullshit, because the atmosphere surrounding that part of the newsroom is just different. Of course this is when SOSH members post links to news reporter Twitter wars and completely discredit my assumption.

Third, regardless of who is right and who is wrong, how did these stories not come out? Blaming Heidi is bullshit, because there are tons of reporters covering the Sox, some with better access and connections than others, and you're telling me no one could blow these stories open before the season ended? Where the fuck are the people paid to uncover that shit? Eating hot dogs, sitting in the press box and counting down the minutes until they can file their stories and head home?

Edited by dolomite133, 13 October 2011 - 02:18 PM.

[JohntheBaptist]

The mistake is assuming she was challenging anyone's "journalistic ethics." She heard some people talking (potentially inaccurate) shit about her on the radio and smartly realized what it could do to her professionally, so she shot back. Heidi is not a journalist and it is not in her job description to ever, ever, ever report on the sort of stuff coming out of the clubhouse right now. Ever. Calling her out on that, or a failure to do that, is just beyond asinine.

The reason Haggerty's response was childish was because it had nothing to do with calling her out for hypocrisy, it was just piling on. He's tried to make it an issue of hypocrisy after the fact. It also had literally nothing to do with him.

Let's assume for a second the rumors are false. What would you do yesterday in her position?

[lexrageorge]

There are a couple of ways of looking at this situation.

First, media people who work for the team's mouthpiece can't be hard-hitting. They just can't. That's simply not what they are paid to do. However, those journalists are, by default, practicing lousy journalism and should never, ever lecture anyone on what "good journalism" is. People like Heidi are professional journalists, but they are not journalists with integrity. That's not because of who they are or what they are capable of, but because of who they work for and what they are paid to do.

Second, Haggs criticisms are probably correct. However, it's incredibly bad form for journalists to attack each other publicly like this. This sounds like something that would happen between college journalists. But for this to happen in Boston, a huge sports market, where sports journalists are supposed to act like professionals ... maybe this just shows the huge difference between news and sports reporters. I don't know that you'd ever catch news reporters pulling this bullshit, because the atmosphere surrounding that part of the newsroom is just different. Of course this is when SOSH members post links to news reporter Twitter wars and completely discredit my assumption.

Third, regardless of who is right and who is wrong, how did these stories not come out? Blaming Heidi is bullshit, because there are tons of reporters covering the Sox, some with better access and connections than others, and you're telling me no one could blow these stories open before the season ended? Where the fuck are the people paid to uncover that shit? Eating hot dogs, sitting in the press box and counting down the minutes until they can file their stories and head home?

What Haggs and you are forgetting is that Heidi responded to an unfounded report of her actions with certain members of the Red Sox, and that report being repeated by another journalist on the radio. That hardly makes Felger a "journalist with integrity". So Heidi was absolutey right to come out swinging. Hey, it's her career that's under attack.

[Carmine Hose]

Felger's got a pretty high stature in Boston sports media right now, if not at the top. He's also a very careful guy in crafting his image. Even though he rants, he's not reckless, but rather savvy. That said, I can't see him intimating the Tek-Watney relationship if he wasn't confident in his sources that it was true.

Also, she may have denied it on T&R, but what exactly is she going to say? "Yeah, I f*cked a married member of the team I cover." Of course not. And no one is going to refute her denial because the one who could, the newly re-married Tek, would have no reason to make himself look any worse than he has lately.

I've talked personally with many media members (sports, politics) and they've disclosed info that is never made public but that everyone in their industry knows. It's fascinating to see their fourth wall broken down, regardless of who started it.

[ForKeeps]

Felger's got a pretty high stature in Boston sports media right now, if not at the top. He's also a very careful guy in crafting his image. Even though he rants, he's not reckless, but rather savvy. That said, I can't see him intimating the Tek-Watney relationship if he wasn't confident in his sources that it was true.

Ahah, have you ever heard Michael Felger talk before? Every other statement he makes is pulled directly from his ass. He wasn't quoting sources on this, he was talking about the same retarded internet rumors we all read 2 years ago.

By the way, does anyone believe that if NESN offered them more money either Felger or Haggerty wouldn't join them in a second and do softball interviews and food segments? Give me a break with this "integrity" talk. Saying those two have more integrity than Heidi Watney is like saying Ronald McDonlad has more integrity than Captain Crunch.

Edited by ForKeeps, 13 October 2011 - 03:24 PM.

[Carmine Hose]

Ahah, have you ever heard Michael Felger talk before? Every other statement he makes is pulled directly from his ass.

I don't necessarily agree with this. My read is tht he's a very calculating guy.

[ForKeeps]

He's "calculating", whatever, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Point is he wasn't reporting something. He was trying to make a tenuous connection between Francona's personal life being dragged into the public discourse and the personal lives of Henry, Watney etc. being fair game. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he really meant to go after Heidi, he was just a little too overzealous in his (and the rest of the local media's) White Knight crusade to defend Francona.

[Billy Jo Robidoux]

Ahah, have you ever heard Michael Felger talk before? Every other statement he makes is pulled directly from his ass. He wasn't quoting sources on this, he was talking about the same retarded internet rumors we all read 2 years ago.

What's up, Gresh!

[Soxbrained]

Ahah, have you ever heard Michael Felger talk before? Every other statement he makes is pulled directly from his ass. He wasn't quoting sources on this, he was talking about the same retarded internet rumors we all read 2 years ago.

This. If Felger is the one with journalistic integrity, then we're all fucked.

[Sprowl]

Felger's got a pretty high stature in Boston sports media right now, if not at the top. He's also a very careful guy in crafting his image. Even though he rants, he's not reckless, but rather savvy. That said, I can't see him intimating the Tek-Watney relationship if he wasn't confident in his sources that it was true.

Also, she may have denied it on T&R, but what exactly is she going to say? "Yeah, I f*cked a married member of the team I cover." Of course not. And no one is going to refute her denial because the one who could, the newly re-married Tek, would have no reason to make himself look any worse than he has lately.

I've talked personally with many media members (sports, politics) and they've disclosed info that is never made public but that everyone in their industry knows. It's fascinating to see their fourth wall broken down, regardless of who started it.

So you are asserting the Tek-Watney relationship based on confidence in your inference about another guy's unnamed sources? Because you're not just intimating, you're stating.

Or if you're not stating it, just what are you doing?

Because I'm still of the mind that this is indeed the same old internet rumor in an echo chamber.

[Dogman2]

So you are asserting the Tek-Watney relationship based on confidence in your inference about another guy's unnamed sources? Because you're not just intimating, you're stating.

Or if you're not stating it, just what are you doing?

Because I'm still of the mind that this is indeed the same old internet rumor in an echo chamber.

I've reread Carmine's post a few times and it seems like he is saying that about Felger rather than himself which, of course, contradicts everything positive he said about Felger.

The major problem is Felger wasn't the one with the sources or the original rumor so he essentially, like ForKeeps said, pulled it out of his ass for no reason but to be uppity about what's in bounds based on the Tito drug rumor.

He got his ratings.

[dolomite133]

What Haggs and you are forgetting is that Heidi responded to an unfounded report of her actions with certain members of the Red Sox, and that report being repeated by another journalist on the radio. That hardly makes Felger a "journalist with integrity". So Heidi was absolutey right to come out swinging. Hey, it's her career that's under attack.

I'm not forgetting that. However, that rumor has been pervasive for a while. Trust me, Whatney knows all about it. It has been one of the biggest Boston sports rumors in my lifetime (right up there with Lowe and Tek's infidelity -- were there two bigger dogs *allegedly* in Boston sports? -- and Troy O'Leary's wife sleeping with Donnie Sadler). Maybe THE biggest? I'm not saying she has to respond to every rumor out there. But, given its potential to damage her reputation, she probably should have put this fire out a long time ago. The fact that Felger has talked about it publicly shows that, if nothing else, Watney's integrity has been called into question behind closed doors for a while.

But what's done is done. Now, given the events of the past couple of days, we need to get to the bottom of the rumor, clarify what is true and what is not, and hold either Watney, Haggerty, Felger, etc. responsible for their words/actions. This sounds like a job for ... a reporter???

Edited by dolomite133, 13 October 2011 - 06:01 PM.

[Tony C]

I've talked personally with many media members (sports, politics) and they've disclosed info that is never made public but that everyone in their industry knows. It's fascinating to see their fourth wall broken down, regardless of who started it.

And anyone with half a brain knows that the majority of this 'inside info' is pure and simple bs and speculation. doesn't matter the industry, guys shooting the shit about others around drinks is not exactly a good source. Glad it "fascinates" you and I presume you spend your time on TMZ getting other such "fourth wall" insightful pleasures -- excuse me if others are slightly less naive and don't assume that because something is said that it is true.

[dcmissle]

On his show today, Felger seemed contrite, calling his decision to talk about Watney “regrettable.” He said even though she’s a “team employee” and should be subject to the same scrutiny as owners and players, Watney wasn’t the problem. “It’s not really about her,” Felger said. “It’s about the uniformed personnel that contributed to the collapse.”

from Globe.com

[Mystic Merlin]

Having high stature in the current incarnation of Boston sports media is sort of like getting a medal at the Special Olympics. Felger is a performance artist, he isn't a journalist or analyst.

[soxfan121]

from Globe.com

Perhaps it's just a difference in perception, but I listened to that whole segment and Felger was not, IMO, "contrite". He was careful with his words and he absolutely did NOT in any way apologize. And it's worth noting that the co-host, Mazz, wrote a book with Varitek during the time frame when these "rumors" surfaced. So if Felger has a "source", it's the guy sitting next to him. Who would know, if anyone would. That said, Felger was "contrite" about one thing - Heidi wasn't the issue and shouldn't have been referenced. A far cry from apologizing or denouncing the rumors.

In any case, the Heidi v. Haggs thing is best summarized by someone who called into F&M today and made the point that she's not a reporter - she's an on-camera member of the marketing department. I was wrong above - she should not, nor should anyone expect her to "report" on the Red Sox. She's there to add value to the broadcast by reading advertisements, critiquing ballpark food items and asking "how did you feel?" to the player being interviewed directly after the game.

[redsahx]

In any case, the Heidi v. Haggs thing is best summarized by someone who called into F&M today and made the point that she's not a reporter - she's an on-camera member of the marketing department. I was wrong above - she should not, nor should anyone expect her to "report" on the Red Sox. She's there to add value to the broadcast by reading advertisements, critiquing ballpark food items and asking "how did you feel?" to the player being interviewed directly after the game.

How does someone not side with Heidi in all of this? A highly rated drive time radio show brings up a nasty rumor about her. She defends herself. Next thing you know, she's then getting attacked for not telling us that Beckett and Lackey were being fat slobs in the clubhouse. That caller on F&M was pointing out something that should be obvious to anyone who watches the Red Sox with any regularity.

[the1andonly3003]

the only sideline reporter I would expect to "report" (aka leak) this stuff is Jim Grey

[dolomite133]

How does someone not side with Heidi in all of this? A highly rated drive time radio show brings up a nasty rumor about her. She defends herself. Next thing you know, she's then getting attacked for not telling us that Beckett and Lackey were being fat slobs in the clubhouse. That caller on F&M was pointing out something that should be obvious to anyone who watches the Red Sox with any regularity.

Some people don't side with Watney for the same reason they don't side with the PR flack for a dirty corporation. Sure, they are just doing their job. But that doesn't really win people's sympathy.