602 replies to this topic

[Foulkey Reese]

Wow

http://mobile.boston...llapse?single=1

Tito accused of having a problem with pills and marriage trouble.

Beckett, Lester, and Lackey trashed.

A good recap of how everything fell apart.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 11 October 2011 - 11:43 PM.

[absintheofmalaise]

Good article coming out in the Globe by reporter Bob Hohler from various sources involved with the Sox about the season.

With their team in peril and their manager losing his authority, three Red Sox pitchers last month were uniquely positioned to prevent the greatest September collapse in major league history. All the Sox needed was Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, and John Lackey to apply the skills and commitment that previously made them World Series champions.

Instead, Boston’s three elite starters went soft, their pitching as anemic as their work ethic. The indifference of Beckett, Lester, and Lackey in a time of crisis can be seen in what team sources say became their habit of drinking beer, eating fast-food fried chicken, and playing video games in the clubhouse during games while their teammates tried to salvage a once-promising season.

By numerous accounts, manager Terry Francona lost his ability to prevent some of the lax behavior that characterized the collapse. Team sources said Francona, who has acknowledged losing influence with some former team leaders, appeared distracted during the season by issues related to his troubled marriage and to his health.

Francona spent the season living in a hotel after he moved out of the Brookline home he shared with Jacque, his wife of nearly 30 years. But he adamantly denied his marital problems affected his job performance.

By all accounts, the 2011 Sox perished from a rash of relatively small indignities. For every player committed to the team’s conditioning program, there was a slacker. For every Sox regular who rose early on the road to take optional batting practice, there were others who never bothered. For every player who dedicated himself to the quest for a championship, there were too many distracted by petty personal issues.

Sources said Beckett, Lester, and Lackey, who were joined at times by Buchholz, began the practice late in 2010. The pitchers not only continued the routine this year, sources said, but they joined a number of teammates in cutting back on their exercise regimens despite appeals from the team’s strength and conditioning coach Dave Page.

"It’s hard for a guy making $80,000 to tell a $15 million pitcher he needs to get off his butt and do some work,’’ one source said.

For Beckett, Lester, and Lackey, the consequences were apparent as their body fat appeared to increase and pitching skills eroded. When the team needed them in September, they posted a combined 2-7 record with a 6.45 earned run average, the Sox losing 11 of their 15 starts

This confirms a lot of the speculation here, and in other places about the clique the lack of conditioning, Tito's remarks about players not having each others backs on the field. A pretty damning portrait of a dysfunctional team. Lots of work to do for them this off season.

[Foulkey Reese]

So Tito gets completely trashed. Nothing can ever end well in Boston.

[Kull]

Beckett, Lester, and Lackey trashed.

And Wakefield, Varitek, Youkilis, Gonzales, & Ortiz, although most of that is just rehashed stuff we've heard before.

[JBill]

The identity of the players is what we suspected, even though I was holding out hope Lester wasn't involved.

Sox owners soon suspected the team’s poor play was related to lingering resentment over the scheduling dispute, sources said. The owners responded by giving all the players $300 headphones and inviting them to enjoy a players-only night on principal owner John W. Henry’s yacht after they returned from a road trip Sept. 11.

I'm afraid I'm in danger of really hating this team next year.

The stuff about Tito, Hohler got that from a team source and then went to Tito for confirmation and comments? I'm so sorry for Tito he had to go through that indignity.

[Kull]

And for those seeking out the evil hand of LL, there's this:

While Epstein has accepted blame for signing subpar performers such as Lackey and Jenks, the owners share the responsibility of unanimously approving their signings. But Carl Crawford was a different story.

Ownership was divided over Epstein’s push to acquire Crawford as a free agent, sources said. At least one top executive believed Crawford’s skills as a speedy lefthanded-hitting outfielder seemed to duplicate Ellsbury’s. But the owners ultimately agreed to gamble $142 million over seven years on Crawford - a lost wager to date.

[Reverend]

So Tito gets completely trashed. Nothing can ever end well in Boston.

John Olerud?

[StuckOnYouk]

It wasn't long ago that Tito considered Lester like another son, and if I recall the feeling was mutual. Everyone remembers their embrace after his no-no.

Safe to say Tito was really let down by Lester's actions.

[rembrat]

I wonder how much of this stuff happens in other clubhouses? Our team aint the only club with good ol' fatboys.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Sounds like we need to drop Fat Man and Little Boy on the rotation. So disappointed in Lester. Maybe Lackey should be pulled limb from limb by horses (or would that be animal on animal cruelty?).

I always remembered the Ortiz outburst in the middle of Tito's press conference and think "Damn, Tito hates anyone interrupting his press conferences." Pretty much summed up how little respect anyone had for the man.

I feel for Tito more and more. Hate that he had to comment on that stuff about his personal life.

Edited by greek_gawd_of_walks, 12 October 2011 - 12:10 AM.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Sounds like any organization when things are going poorly and quite a few when things are going well. The really high-ups are out of touch with what is going on in the trenches, the mid-level manager cannot motivate certain types to do their jobs properly and may well be setting a bad example. Meanwhile the workers range from those just punching the clock to a bunch of malcontents who stir up trouble and to a select few who put their heads down and get most of the hard work done.

If its true, it just goes to show you that aside from the huge guaranteed contracts, legions of support staff and millions of adoring fans who will do just about anything, professional ballplayers are just like any Johnny from Burger King.

That is, of course, assuming this story isn't a well-crafted PR-piece used to justify the dismissal of a popular manager and GM.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

And for those seeking out the evil hand of LL, there's this:

I am not sure what that says about LL, if anything specific at all.

It suggests that Theo was the one who wanted Crawford but some or all of the owners had doubts. Of course, it could also be spin.

Frankly, the entire management team should all be held accountable for big contracts like that, regardless of the outcome. Common sense suggests that almost no professional sports GMs have the ability to encumber their organizations to the tune of $140MM without some form of consensus building within the organization.

[SoxFanInPdx]

If this article is accurate, our starters had plenty of time to play video games, eat fried chicken and chug down beers, but had no time to stay in shape. Youk's tantrums have gotten worse and our best player this year has 1 person he likes on this team. This is unreal. I know it's been mentioned that Youk may be trade bait, but I'm concerned that his attitude may prevent them getting good value in return. Shit show indeed.

[cahlton]

Articles like this must be a big part of why Theo Epstein is sick of working for the Red Sox.

[Sille Skrub]

That is, of course, assuming this story isn't a well-crafted PR-piece used to justify the dismissal of a popular manager and GM.

This is exactly what it is. Smear campaign 101.

To say the 2011 Red Sox were flawed would be the understatement of the year, but some of this stuff is out of bounds IMO. I didn't care to hear about Cashman's marital issues and I sure as hell don't care about Tito's. Also, as he says, Tito was on pain meds for years and suddenly now he's a druggie? Come on.

My disappointment lies with Tek, Wake and reluctantly Papi. These are the guys that are supposed to be the leaders in the clubhouse.

As for the Texas Trio (Lester is a Texan by association here), I don't see how any of them escape venom next year in Fenway,

Shit, if I were Theo I'd hightail it out of town too.

What a mess.

[absintheofmalaise]

Others besides LL can have an agenda as well. Clubhouse information is generally only known by those in the clubhouse.

[templeUsox]

I couldn't even finish the article I was so furious. It doesn't help that everything else is falling apart in front of our very eyes.

[StuckOnYouk]

Articles like this must be a big part of why Theo Epstein is sick of working for the Red Sox.

I dont' want anyone who had anything to do with the collapse we just saw slide. I'm all for having them called out and publicly flogged.

..although I don't know why Tito's personal stuff had to be thrown in there.

[SydneySox]

I thought it was lacking, to tell you the truth.

Championed Pedroia, trashed the names we all knew and heavily featured Tito - and that's only because he was the only one he actually really had to speak to the media and answer questions.

[bean8282]

Yeah, Theo's gone. What a mess this has become. I feel for Francona and my respect for Pedroia continues to grow. This off-season will be one of the most interesting in some time. How it shakes out will have a lasting impact on the franchise. I sure hope some of these guys have enough self respect that they look in the mirror, are thoroughly embarrassed with themselves, and can rededicate themselves to acting as professionals. We will see.

[gammoseditor]

I don't really see the connection in the article between Tito's marital problems and the collapse of the team. It's also kind of sickening that "team sources" would indicate that Tito's use of pain medication might have effected his managing. Why tell a reporter that? What could that possible accomplish? Does anyone think that if Francona took a couple less vicadins after getting his knee pumped that John Lackey and Josh Beckett would have done more wind sprints?

[cahlton]

I dont' want anyone who had anything to do with the collapse we just saw slide. I'm all for having them called out and publicly flogged.

..although I don't know why Tito's personal stuff had to be thrown in there.

Uh, yeah.

[SoxScout]

It is safe to say that Lackey can not pitch for the Red Sox ever again. Doesn't matter what they have to do, I really don't think fans will ever give the guy a break and anytime he is visible in Fenway it is going to be an epic shitshow of embarrassing boos. Can you imagine opening day introductions? I mean, I don't even think it'll be just Lackey, but that could get UGLY.

Even if he wasn't the biggest problem, he was one and will be the face of this. He needs to go.

Lester is the one in all of this that really stings, I mean, fuck. I thought he was the Pedroia of pitching, but allowing himself to be actively involved and embracing this shit really sucks. Someone needs to start laying the smack down on him. Josh "Here is your contract, Lester is going to be your puppy dog and learn from you" Beckett can go to hell.

Also, fuck it. Bring back Cora in some way. I am so pissed, literally fired up right now, I want heads to roll.

Edited by SoxScout, 12 October 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[Sille Skrub]

I don't really see the connection in the article between Tito's marital problems and the collapse of the team. It's also kind of sickening that "team sources" would indicate that Tito's use of pain medication might have effected his managing. Why tell a reporter that? What could that possible accomplish? Does anyone think that if Francona took a couple less vicadins after getting his knee pumped that John Lackey and Josh Beckett would have done more wind sprints?

We have seen this tons of times.

No popular figure can leave the Hub without a smear campaign.

How the hell are they going to sell all those bricks?

[JBill]

It's also kind of sickening that "team sources" would indicate that Tito's use of pain medication might have effected his managing. Why tell a reporter that? What could that possible accomplish? Does anyone think that if Francona took a couple less vicadins after getting his knee pumped that John Lackey and Josh Beckett would have done more wind sprints?

I have no idea why they just don't point to the performance on the field and leave it at that, in terms of not bringing Francona back. I wanted him back, but on-field performance and not getting results the past couple years is enough justification for a new voice in the clubhouse, regardless of how popular Francona is. I am not sure what Tito has ever done to deserve this kind of forced airing of his dirty laundry.

[jacklamabe65]

It's almost like when when Sidney Wicks and Curtis Rowe wore Celtics uniforms and put shame on a oonce glorious franchise. Hopefully, John Henry hasn't morphed into John Y. Brown.

Dusty for Captain.

Edited by jacklamabe65, 12 October 2011 - 12:37 AM.

[Kull]

How the hell are they going to sell all those bricks?

If they could be thrown at Lackey, the whole lot would sell out within a week.

[Yazdog8]

Sounds like any organization when things are going poorly and quite a few when things are going well. The really high-ups are out of touch with what is going on in the trenches, the mid-level manager cannot motivate certain types to do their jobs properly and may well be setting a bad example. Meanwhile the workers range from those just punching the clock to a bunch of malcontents who stir up trouble and to a select few who put their heads down and get most of the hard work done.

You just described my place of work in alarming detail.

Out of all the culprits, I am really disappointed in Jon Lester. I thought he was better than that.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

If all of this is true, I'm happy it came out, EXCEPT FOR TITO'S FAMILY/PILL ISSUE. But I am happy Tito is gone. I don't blame him and I truly don't know what will make the clubhouse better - but clearly the place was a fucking mess. Better it come to light now, in October, than in Spring Training next season. Or worse, have nothing exposed or changed - allowing the entire group (players, manager, GM, etc) to come back next year to another lost season. The last six weeks have been ugly and painful but hopefully the entire atmosphere changes after some of this shit is exposed. In a perfect world, the players look themselves in the mirror after game 162 and decide to revise their habits based on self pride...but that rarely ever occurs. So maybe unmasking the shit publicly will force players to change and management to re-asses what (or who) wasn't working. Because clearly the inmates were running the asylum.

[941827]

This article deserves a full FJM'ing, but I'll leave that to someone else. I just want to point out how proud the Globe is of this article. Chad Finn and the sports editor were tweeting about a blockbuster article this evening, then PeteAbe made sure to tweet the link as soon as it was live. Poor Bob Ryan must shake his head when he looks around and sees what that sports department has become.

[YouLookAdopted]

Rebuild.

[Sille Skrub]

Out of all the culprits, I am really disappointed in Jon Lester. I thought he was better than that.

This one is probably the worst one for me.

He goes from stud-lefty-potential-ace-who-beat-cancer (and started Game 4 of the '07 Series), to a puppy dog following Lackey and Beckett around at the clubhouse frat party.

[502 to Right]

Hohler is a douche bag. What a hatchet piece.

[YouLookAdopted]

I wonder how much of this stuff happens in other clubhouses? Our team aint the only club with good ol' fatboys.

Don't know about ML clubhouses, but I know firsthand that the clubhouses from Low A to AAA in the Rangers system are bursting at the seams with beer and Xboxes. Drinking, junk food and video games seem like a fixture in most of the minor league clubhouses I've seen.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I'm not crazy about the article, particularly the Tito stuff, but I think we're well past the point of dismissing any of the clubhouse business, which really sucks. I don't know what's more disappointing to me, that Lester and Beckett appear to be two of the main culprits or that they are this bloody chummy with Lackey.

[crystalline]

Hohler is a douche bag. What a hatchet piece.

"Bob Hohler can be reached at xxx@globe.com; Globe staffers Nick Cafardo and Peter Abraham contributed to this report."

Two things on Theo:
1. He seemed to be on Tito's side and want him to stay:
Gammons says Epstein called Tito and said, "look, do you want to go in with me tomorrow and make our case to ownership that we can fix this," and Tito said, "not really."
That's consistent with the way that Tito was fired and then un-fired and then fired again in one day. And Theo authored the press release un-firing him: http://fullcount.wee...nt-on-francona/

2. From the Gorilla Suit episode, it seems like he's unhappy with something about the media/Sox public relations.

If those two things are even close to true - he's very likely gone. Globe article = sh*tshow.

[gammoseditor]

Hohler is a douche bag. What a hatchet piece.

To his credit, he called everyone involved and gave them a chance to respond. There are multiple quotes from Francona where he says the criticisms of him are garbage.

[Sille Skrub]

To his credit, he called everyone involved and gave them a chance to respond.

You can put lipstick on it, but it still is a pig.

[Bernard Gilkey baby]

Bob Hohler was taken off the regular sports beat for a reason. An awkwardly written article, the only solid information was the stuff that was reported already, and the rest was riddled with vague assertions and unnamed sources. For instance, the passage about "one top exec" questioning the CC signing is just the kind of thing you could find in any organization about any big money decision, and without the name of the exec or the details of the dispute it's not really news, just a thing anyone could have said at any time in any context. But now suddenly given weight.

It's never a great thing when the Boston newspaper of record is talking about a guy's "marital trouble" in the sports section. I get the prurient interest, and I'd by lying if I said I was above reading it (because I did) but it's one of those things where you read it and realize instantly it's not something you really wanted to know. And it made me worry about privacy in general, because who wants their marriage in the paper? And the pill thing seemed like a stretch, a real stretch. So now Tito has the indignity of having to deny that pills and marital strife was connected to job performance and it may not have, but now that idea has a voice.

I feel gross.

[gammoseditor]

You can put lipstick on it, but it still is a pig.

I guess he deserves some blame him but he's just passing along info. My disgust is reserved for the sources in the organization. I don't think intelligent people are going to come away from the article blaming Francona's personal issues for the team's performance in September. If a member of the front office approaches you as a reporter making these accusations I think it's your job to report them. Calling Francona first and quoting him in the article responding to these bogus insinuations tells me the article did not have an agenda.

[JBill]

I don't think intelligent people are going to come away from the article blaming Francona's personal issues for the team's performance in September.

Well for the rest of his career now he'll have to deal with the pill popping insinuations. Not that I think this is going to prevent him from getting a job or anything as soon as he wants one, but it's the type of accusation that tarnishes a reputation. It's gross that a "team source" gave it to Hohler and I'm sorry Hohler chose to include it in his story.

[StuckOnYouk]

Any chance one of the demands when they sat down with Tito at the end of the year was that he enter drug rehab?

I'm only half-kidding.

[E5 Yaz]

You can put lipstick on it, but it still is a pig.

Perhaps, but what's the alternative? Living in the dark and believing as gospel truth whatever the remaining members of management want to shovel at fans over the next few days?

The track record's pretty clear. Tito and Theo will be scapegoated. The story's tough to read, but if the players actions are responsible for the shitshow, they need to be held accountable as well.

The stuff about Francona's personal life, however, goes too far.

[Sille Skrub]

Living in the dark and believing as gospel truth whatever the remaining members of management want to shovel at fans over the next few days?

Isn't that exactly what happened here? A "team source" is shoveling news of Terry Francona's marital issues and accusing him of having a drug problem. Said "team source" continues on to start Theo's exit parade by revealing the tidbit about Carl Crawford.

This "team source" plays us for fools if he (or she) thinks feeding this chum to a stiff like Bob Hohler is going to redirect the angst of the fans.

Egos have driven the Boston Red Sox apart. Egos in management, players' egos, and egos in the media.

We're on a sinking ship right now and the franchise is literally moving backwards at this point.

[Pandemonium67]

Things in the clubhouse were 100 times worse than I thought. The lack of player leadership was stunning, and I imagine a major roster overhaul is the only cure.

Out: Tek, Wake, Lackey, probably Beckett, probably Youk and a few others who either were not in shape or cared more about stats than team.

On the fence: Papi (it pains me to say that)

Build around: Pedroia of course, Aceves, Papelbon (break the bank if you have to) and Ellsbury (ditto). Keep Lowrie as JE's binky.

Resurrect: Lester (while he was a huge disappointment, I hope like hell he's not a lost cause), Crawford

Add: A smart GM who will hire a manager who will not accept being tuned out by players.


I never would have believed both Tito and Theo were goners, but they are. I wish like hell this was the yankees imploding...

[E5 Yaz]

Isn't that exactly what happened here? A "team source" is shoveling news of Terry Francona's marital issues and accusing him of having a drug problem. Said "team source" continues on to start Theo's exit parade by revealing the tidbit about Carl Crawford.

This "team source" plays us for fools if he (or she) thinks feeding this chum to a stiff like Bob Hohler is going to redirect the angst of the fans.

Egos have driven the Boston Red Sox apart. Egos in management, players' egos, and egos in the media.

We're on a sinking ship right now and the franchise is literally moving backwards at this point.

Team sources, as Abs said earlier, can be anyone from the owner to the players to the clubhouse attendant.

The angst of the fans should be directed at all involved.

At the very least, bringing this out before the Theo situation is resolved forces the media to ask management about it directly in the days ahead

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Any chance one of the demands when they sat down with Tito at the end of the year was that he enter drug rehab?

I'm only half-kidding.

No. It would have been in the article.

[Sille Skrub]

E5, it would have to be the Good Will Hunting of clubhouse attendants to know that Theo pushed for Crawford while some higher-ups were against it.

[BucketOBalls]

This is exactly what it is. Smear campaign 101.

To say the 2011 Red Sox were flawed would be the understatement of the year, but some of this stuff is out of bounds IMO. I didn't care to hear about Cashman's marital issues and I sure as hell don't care about Tito's. Also, as he says, Tito was on pain meds for years and suddenly now he's a druggie? Come on.

My disappointment lies with Tek, Wake and reluctantly Papi. These are the guys that are supposed to be the leaders in the clubhouse.

As for the Texas Trio (Lester is a Texan by association here), I don't see how any of them escape venom next year in Fenway,

Shit, if I were Theo I'd hightail it out of town too.

What a mess.

Can we blame LL for the smear campaign crap? It obviously isn't comming from Theo's end. I hate this stuff. It's spin and it's crap. What the hell is it anyway. Belichick survived SB42 and that was worse. I had hoped this team would be above this sort of stupidity. This whole "housecleaning" really feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I would much rather have let those who made mistakes learn from them.

You just described my place of work in alarming detail.

Out of all the culprits, I am really disappointed in Jon Lester. I thought he was better than that.

Lester at least sacked up at the end.(and then Paps dropped the ball, but oh well).

[anakin]

Beertastic4 rotation.