414 replies to this topic

[Hee-Seop's Fable]

That was awesome. No better summary of the past decade. It's the first time I really feel like it's the end of this era, and I'm now a bit more excited looking ahead. this may belong in the "Thanks, Theo" thread, but whatever: Theo, thank you for that gem of an essay.

Seconded. I've been guessing that the pace of the thanks thread has been slow mainly in the absence of real closure. This does a nice job of letting everyone turn the page. My instinct has been to pull for the Cubs, especially being in a division largely irrelevant to the Sox, and my reaction to reading his summation confirms that instinct. Go Sox, go Cubs.

And give us McNutt, fer crissakes.

[SoxScout]

Kind of feels like a cloud has been lifted. I am glad he took the time to write that. The Theo chapter of the Red Sox book is complete, and the forward he wrote for the next one was awesome.

FWIW, the Herald's top Sox story tomorrow is:

CHICAGO — Theo Epstein is polite and well-mannered, good with his introductions and his thank-yous.

Today we find out how good he is with his goodbyes, because he owes the Red Sox [team stats] and their fans an explanation for his.

Edited by SoxScout, 25 October 2011 - 12:55 AM.

[jippaman]

Kind of feels like a cloud has been lifted. I am glad he took the time to write that. The Theo chapter of the Red Sox book is complete, and the forward he wrote for the next one was awesome.

Yeah, I feel lighter. Sad but in a good way, nostalgic, at the same time remembering and looking ahead with a clarity and trust in what the organization will provide.

In Theo we trusted; in Theo we still trust; in Theo we will always trust.

(I feel like this whole discussion deserves its own thread - a symbol of moving on. If appropriate, maybe a mod can start one with what's already been written here.)

Edited by jippaman, 25 October 2011 - 01:00 AM.

[Rasputin]

Ask and ye shall receive. He just wrote an essay for the Globe:

http://www.boston.co...red_sox_nation/

We may win 120 next year.

[TheoShmeo]

Theo: Football legend Bill Walsh used to say that coaches and executives should seek change after 10 years with the same team. The theory is that both the individual and the organization benefit from a change after so much time together. The executive gets rebirth and the energy that comes with a new challenge; the organization gets a fresh perspective, and the chance for true change that comes with new leadership. This idea resonated with me. Although I tried my best to fight it, I couldn’t escape the conclusion that both the Red Sox and I would benefit from a change sometime soon.

I agree with the posters above who praised Theo's essay.

The one item that I don't really understand and therefore sticks in my craw is why Theo treats Walsh's dictum as gospel. I'm not saying that what Walsh said doesn't make intuitive sense. It does. But Theo seemingly predicated his entire decision on Walsh's principle, and I'd like to know why it was such a game changer for him and whether there were other factors that caused him to leave his dream job.

I hope that one day Theo will choose to elaborate.

[shepard50]

Wow.

What a well though out, honest and heartfelt piece that is.

Theo deserves a lot of credit for leaving with grace, honesty and dignity. That is no small art in this town, and this feels like the first act of closure on the madness of the last two months.

I can only wish him the best.

[Savin Hillbilly]

The one item that I don't really understand and therefore sticks in my craw is why Theo treats Walsh's dictum as gospel. I'm not saying that what Walsh said doesn't make intuitive sense. It does. But Theo seemingly predicated his entire decision on Walsh's principle, and I'd like to know why it was such a game changer for him and whether there were other factors that caused him to leave his dream job.

I agree, the emphasis on Walsh's thoughts and their impact was the one part of the piece that rang just a little false to me. Not that I doubt that Theo read those words and they had some force for him, but it seemed odd to suggest that they were the decisive factor in his thought process. I felt, as I read that part, that Theo was leaning on Walsh to distance himself from his own choice just a bit--as if to say, it wasn't my idea, I was just following these words of wisdom.

But otherwise, yeah, a wonderfully illuminating goodbye. Once again, Theo shows that he has an extraordinary communicator's gift.

[smastroyin]

I wish him the best as well and can only thank him for the job he has done. And yes the essay is very well written.

I will say though that I think he is just being a bit disingenuous with himself about the extent to which his feelings about staying changed over the last couple of months. I think his words are indeed heartfelt and sincere, but a guy who is concerned about how thoughtfully he can choose a manager for an organization doesn't sign two guys to 7 year contracts worth close to $300 million if he is leaving the next year. Now, I think he made those moves in the best interests of the Red Sox and believes they are the right thing. But, the idea that he had to leave this year instead of next because he didn't think it was appropriate to be part of the transition process doesn't jibe with committing the team to those contracts. Remember that this ownership group essentially whined about how much guaranteed money Duquette left them with, and they fired him, he didn't leave on his own.

For the record I am a believer in Crawford, maybe not as a $21 million player, but as a $15-$18 million player and I could care less about the inefficiency. And I am a huge believer in Gonzalez. So I'm not saying the contracts are bad. I just think that if you make those types of commitments the previous off-season then something in the season really changed the way you felt about staying in Boston if you then think it is best to move on. It is a touchy situation because of course even if you think you are going to leave, then if you think those are the moves you want to make, you have to make them, but I still think there is a disconnect between those actions and what Theo wrote yesterday.

Again, he did a great job here, I actually think it was good for all involved to move on. But that all of these transition decisions were essentially made because the team collapsed just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[JimD]

Sorry, but ‘then September happened’ comes off as a convenient rationale to me.

He was planning to leave after the 2012 season and turn the reins over to Ben, but then the ultimate post-Red Sox challenge became available – the Cubs job. I think he was leaving anyways but the idea of a fresh start after the September collapse undoubtedly made it easier to accept walking away from such a mess in his own mind.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I thought this was fantastic- left me with a better feeling about Theo, and the Sox going forward. It seemed genuine and honest. Whether it was or not kind of seems irrelevant. He didn't have to do this, but he did, and it likely ends all the garbage of the recent past, and it's a nice way to start Cherington's regime. Kudos to Theo for doing this, and good luck to him going forward.

[dcmissle]

Here is the money paragraph:

For the last decade, I gave everything I had to the Red Sox and received even more in return. I grew enormously as a person, had some successes, and made a lot of mistakes, too. I still love the organization, enjoy close relationships with owners John Henry and Tom Werner - as well as a complicated but ultimately productive and rewarding relationship with Larry Lucchino - and count many of my co-workers among my dearest friends. The reason I am leaving has nothing to do with power, pressure, money, or relationships. It has nothing to do with September, either.

(emphasis added).

It's an olive branch that screams, *Let's do this right for once and part without leaked recriminations that do no one any good.*

Let's see if those he leaves behind are smart enough and classy enough to take it.

[TheoShmeo]

Here is the money paragraph:



(emphasis added).

It's an olive branch that screams, *Let's do this right for once and part without leaked recriminations that do no one any good.*

Let's see if those he leaves behind are smart enough and classy enough to take it.

I think that's your preconceived notion talking and don't see that the only conclusion from his words is the one you've drawn.

He could mean what he says. He could view Larry as a tough guy to work for but also as someone he respects. That text could mean a lot of other things, as well.

[SoxVindaloo]

I agree, the emphasis on Walsh's thoughts and their impact was the one part of the piece that rang just a little false to me. Not that I doubt that Theo read those words and they had some force for him, but it seemed odd to suggest that they were the decisive factor in his thought process. I felt, as I read that part, that Theo was leaning on Walsh to distance himself from his own choice just a bit--as if to say, it wasn't my idea, I was just following these words of wisdom.

But otherwise, yeah, a wonderfully illuminating goodbye. Once again, Theo shows that he has an extraordinary communicator's gift.

I was both moved and a little bit incredulous after reading this piece. I agree that much of what he wrote seems earnest and heartfelt, but his rationale behind the ultimate decision to leave seems flimsy and post-hoc. That said, Theo did not have to do any of this and I appreciate his effort. At the end of the day he is one of us, and he wants to try to explain his exit in terms we will understand.

[Corsi]

He could mean what he says. He could view Larry as a tough guy to work for but also as someone he respects. That text could mean a lot of other things, as well.

I'm sure there are times when Theo wanted to rip Larry's throat out, but in the end, Larry probably brought out the best in Theo and made him the executive he is today. For that, he has Theo's respect.

From someone who works for the Red Sox: "If you can leave a meeting with Larry without him ripping you, consider it a compliment."

[RedOctober3829]

Video Link to press conference

http://www.csnchicag...ages/live_cubs/

[RedOctober3829]

Theo: "It feels good to be a Cub today"

[tims4wins]

Also on MLB.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...350584&c_id=chc

[Rudy Pemberton]

This sucks to watch.

[JimD]

It still feels so unreal.

[24JoshuaPoint]

End of an era.

[litigator02]

If one repeats, "sustained success from sound processes" enough, does it become true? Is it any more likely to become true if one mispronounces the word with a long "e" sound?

[jacklamabe65]

Is ESPN Chicago covering Ben's press conference at 3:00 pm?

[RedOctober3829]

"There are no shortcuts to success"

Got that Lester, Beckett, and Lackey?

[pedros hairstylist]

I don't know how you can watch this and not feel we've lost a talented and thoughtful man with a remarkable sense of integrity and, for lack of a better word, class.

It's also telling how many times he's mentioned the "Cubs Way" will include "players who pull for each other, who care about each other...".

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

Interesting to hear Theo talking about clubhouse culture - players having each other's backs, being in peak condition, etc. in light of everything we heard about the Sox this year.

[24JoshuaPoint]

It's also telling how many times he's mentioned the "Cubs Way" will include "players who pull for each other, who care about each other...".

I noticed as well. He tossed it in there in a few different ways too. Some of them are certainly jabs.

[JBill]

I would really like time to hurry up so I can watch Ben's press conference and feel good about something this offseason.

[Myt1]

I agree with the posters above who praised Theo's essay.

The one item that I don't really understand and therefore sticks in my craw is why Theo treats Walsh's dictum as gospel. I'm not saying that what Walsh said doesn't make intuitive sense. It does. But Theo seemingly predicated his entire decision on Walsh's principle, and I'd like to know why it was such a game changer for him and whether there were other factors that caused him to leave his dream job.

I hope that one day Theo will choose to elaborate.

What the hell are you talking about?

He didn't take it as gospel. He heard some words that resonated with him, and rather than steal them for himself, he attributed them. The words merely encapsulate the "other factors" that pop up when someone is in a managerial position in sports for a certain amount of time.

Do you really think that Theo is saying that he left because Bill Walsh told him he should? Like it's one of the rules right up there with not getting involved in a land war in Asia or feeding Mogwais after midnight?

[fenwaypaul]

If one repeats, "sustained success from sound processes" enough, does it become true? Is it any more likely to become true if one mispronounces the word with a long "e" sound?

It's pronounced that way so it will rhyme with "Bringing in a couple of keys."

I don't think I can bring myself to watch the Theo press conference. I prefer to let his Globe valedictory essay linger in my mind.

[litigator02]

I don't know how you can watch this and not feel we've lost a talented and thoughtful man with a remarkable sense of integrity and, for lack of a better word, class.

I absolutely think that we've lost a talented and thoughtful man with a remarkable sense of integrity and, for lack of a better word, class. However, I didn't get any of that from his statement...what I got from his statement was someone who's read too many Steven Covey books and loves the sound of buzzwords.

Again: Theo good, statement bad.

[JohntheBaptist]

Can't watch the PC here--have they mentioned Hoyer at all yet? Did that end up falling through or is it still a go?

[rembrat]

So Theo is still pretty butthurt about the clubhouse, huh. He knows he is walking into a situation with Matt Garza, Alfonso Soriano, and Carlos Zambrano, right? Dudes are pretty well regarded for their douchetastic behavior.

[RedOctober3829]

"I've learned this the hard way throughout the years: you pay for future performance, not past performance."

[pedros hairstylist]

Confused: which statement is "bad"?

[tims4wins]

"I've learned this the hard way throughout the years: you pay for future performance, not past performance."

Apparently he didn't learn that until 2011.

[TheoShmeo]

What the hell are you talking about?

He didn't take it as gospel. He heard some words that resonated with him, and rather than steal them for himself, he attributed them. The words merely encapsulate the "other factors" that pop up when someone is in a managerial position in sports for a certain amount of time.

Do you really think that Theo is saying that he left because Bill Walsh told him he should? Like it's one of the rules right up there with not getting involved in a land war in Asia or feeding Mogwais after midnight?

What are you confused about?

Theo gave one express reason for leaving: The ten year thing. I suspect there are other reasons underlying his departure and his essay implies that there aren't.

Your snark adds nothing to the conversation. I didn't say and don't think that Bill Walsh told him anything.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

So Theo is still pretty butthurt about the clubhouse, huh. He knows he is walking into a situation with Matt Garza, Alfonso Soriano, and Carlos Zambrano, right? Dudes are pretty well regarded for their douchetastic behavior.

I know Garza is hated around here, but what specifics from his past put him on par with Soriano and/or Zambrano? I never got the indignation about Garza.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

"I've learned this the hard way throughout the years: you pay for future performance, not past performance."

NOW he tells us!

[rembrat]

I know Garza is hated around here, but what specifics from his past put him on par with Soriano and/or Zambrano? I never got the indignation about Garza.

Ever since he got into a screaming match with Dioner Navarro on the mound and in the dugout he has been a douche to me. I think the Twins also shipped him out because he was a douche.

[RedOctober3829]

Theo: Did somebody steal my stapler?

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Ever since he got into a screaming match with Dioner Navarro on the mound and in the dugout he has been a douche to me. I think the Twins also shipped him out because he was a douche.

So they traded him for Delmon Young? If Garza is actually a douche, that's like trading Mao Zedong for Stalin. I think that trade was more about moving talent for talent. If it was about cleaning up the clubhouse, why bring in a guy who tossed a bat at an umpire, had an incident of bumping another ump, and bumped heads with his previous manager (Maddon). I guess it takes more than one shouting match to label someone a douche in my book. Hell, we've rooted for far worse in Boston over the years.

[OCD SS]

Ever since he got into a screaming match with Dioner Navarro on the mound and in the dugout he has been a douche to me. I think the Twins also shipped him out because he was a douche.

I thought the rumor was the Twins shipped him out because they were worried about his conditioning or dedication.

[Alcohol&Overcalls]

Theo gave one express reason for leaving: The ten year thing. I suspect there are other reasons underlying his departure and his essay implies that there aren't.

The Walsh quote wasn't the "reason" for his leaving at all - he used it as framework for describing the reasons (all temporal: hiring a new manager as a "lame duck," the opening of the Cubs job creating an ideal landing spot, etc.).

The essay certain doesn't imply a lack of other reasons - the structure is common: give an example of time-based advice on when to move on, then give reasons why now is that time.

[Myt1]

What are you confused about?

Theo gave one express reason for leaving: The ten year thing. I suspect there are other reasons underlying his departure and his essay implies that there aren't.

No, it does nothing of the sort.

The Walsh statement isn't a religious proclamation. The maxim doesn't require Theo to refrain from eating pork because a pig is unclean. It's a general theory and suggested plan of action based on all of the other factors that rear their head with lots of years in a given organization.

That it sticks in your craw that he didn't provide an exhaustive laundry list of factors just illustrates that you don't understand the sort of statement that was being made. It's like being mad if the Red Sox fire Tim Bogar without referencing every single game in which he almost got a runner killed.

Edited by Myt1, 25 October 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[TheoShmeo]

The Walsh quote wasn't the "reason" for his leaving at all - he used it as framework for describing the reasons (all temporal: hiring a new manager as a "lame duck," the opening of the Cubs job creating an ideal landing spot, etc.).

The essay certain doesn't imply a lack of other reasons - the structure is common: give an example of time-based advice on when to move on, then give reasons why now is that time.

Disagree. The Walsh thing was the stated linchpin. If Theo didn't believe (or say he believed) that a GM needs to move on after about ten years, he would not have viewed himself as a lame duck and could have participated in the hiring of the new manager. Similarly, he would not have needed an ideal landing spot.

To be clear, I don't doubt that Theo believes in the concept expressed by Walsh. I just don't think it's likely that someone leaves his dream job for just that reason.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 25 October 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[JohntheBaptist]

Disagree. The Walsh thing was the stated linchpin. If Theo didn't believe (or say he believed) that a GM needs to move on after about ten years, he would not have viewed himself as a lame duck and could have participated in the hiring of the new manager. Similarly, he would not have needed an ideal landing spot.

Wrong.

If Theo had not already decided to move on at the end of his contract in 2012, September being what it was would not have precipitated such change as to force him to leave early. Him feeling a lame duck who couldn't participate in the hiring didn't have to do with his believing an executive should move on after ten years. He was pondering that point, agreed with it, and September rushed it along.

[SMU_Sox]

No, it does nothing of the sort.

What the essay implies versus what you (TheoShmeo) may infer are two different things. I agree with you, Myt1. I don't think the essay implies anything like that either.

[Myt1]

Disagree. The Walsh thing was the stated linchpin. If Theo didn't believe (or say he believed) that a GM needs to move on after about ten years, he would not have viewed himself as a lame duck and could have participated in the hiring of the new manager. Similarly, he would not have needed an ideal landing spot.

To be clear, I don't doubt that Theo believes in the concept expressed by Walsh. I just don't think it's likely that someone leaves his dream job for just that reason.

Jesus Christ. It's a pithy explanation of the reasons, not the reason itself.

[TheoShmeo]

Wrong.

If Theo had not already decided to move on at the end of his contract in 2012, September being what it was would not have precipitated such change as to force him to leave early. Him feeling a lame duck who couldn't participate in the hiring didn't have to do with his believing an executive should move on after ten years. He was pondering that point, agreed with it, and September rushed it along.

I don't disagree that September rushed it along. But there's nothing to rush along if you aren't living with a premise that after about ten years, it's time to go. As I said, I just think that there were other premises, too.

And johnlimberakis, you might be right. I read one and only one reason for his departure, and took from that that Theo was telling us that if not for the ten year concept, he would not have been thinking about other opportunities or intruding on Ben's process, etc. Maybe I'm reading too much in.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I don't think 2012 pushed it along...I think the Cubs opening coming along did so. It's the ultimate challenge for a guy who is extremely competitive, if you are already feeling that your current situation may have run its course how can you pass such a potential opportunity up? I'm thinking Theo would rather leave the Sox a year too early rather than a year too late.