414 replies to this topic

[Gambler7]

http://bostonherald....2633&position=0
Two baseball sources have confirmed that Theo Epstein is on the cusp of leaving his job as general manager of the Red Sox [team stats] to accept a position with the Chicago Cubs that is believed to include powers greater than he has in Boston, with an announcement expected to be made “within the next 24 to 48 hours.”

[Red(s)HawksFan]

http://bostonherald....2633&position=0
Two baseball sources have confirmed that Theo Epstein is on the cusp of leaving his job as general manager of the Red Sox [team stats] to accept a position with the Chicago Cubs that is believed to include powers greater than he has in Boston, with an announcement expected to be made “within the next 24 to 48 hours.”

Also in that report is word that the Red Sox want to retain Theo, but that if he does go, the Sox want something "real" in return.

[SoxScout]

I know Theo has his warts, and I know some people really would like to see him leave. But I truly feel like those people will become sorry what they wished for.

[CoRP]

I know Theo has his warts, and I know some people really would like to see him leave. But I truly feel like those people will become sorry what they wished for.

I don't think so. His time has come. Let him prove his genius in Chicago. If he can win a World Series there I will be the first to stand up and applaud. In the meantime, bring in another young gun.

[gammoseditor]

I know Theo has his warts, and I know some people really would like to see him leave. But I truly feel like those people will become sorry what they wished for.

I think he is a great general manager but I also think baseball has more great gm's than ever before and if he leaves I trust the ownership to replace him with someone more than capable.

[jippaman]

I never thought it possible that Tito and Epstein would be gone so soon. I considered them to be the Belichick and Brady of the Sox. Even though the analogy isn't perfect considering the positions in question, it's the blanket trust that I have in those four individuals, the proven results that have contributed to the glory days of Boston sports.

I really hope Theo doesn't leave, but if he does...wow. It's not the end of the Sox by any stretch, and I have trust in JWH and company to find the right guys, but still...a month ago, this would have been unthinkable.

[JohntheBaptist]

I think he is a great general manager but I also think baseball has more great gm's than ever before and if he leaves I trust the ownership to replace him with someone more than capable.

I agree with this. What will be hard for me will be seeing the very capable guy we have who also has done such huge things for the organization leave, not a concern about finding another very capable guy. Like with Francona, his potentially leaving doesn't really panic me, it just makes me sad. If true, it is the end of a really great era.

And I don't even want to think what part laziness and "entitlement" played in the overall outcome because it makes it harder and harder to like the (inevitable) 2012 team.

If true, as someone I always really admired, truly, good luck and thanks to Theo Epstein.

Hope not.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 11 October 2011 - 05:57 PM.

[yecul]

It's going to be a very interesting and telling off-season. We will he able to tell a lot from their moves going forward.

I expect moves to he made with pr as the top priority.

Thanks Theo. I hope he turns that club around.

[DLew On Roids]

I for one welcome our new Friedman overlord.

[Fratboy]

I for one welcome our new Friedman overlord.

Behave. Friedman with a budget would be a wet dream.

[rembrat]

Starlin Castro, por favor.

Edit: Been watch too much Archer.

Edited by rembrat, 11 October 2011 - 06:11 PM.

[Clears Cleaver]

Buh bye...no regrets. He is bailing out at a time when the farm system and 40-man roster are perhaps the worst positioned at any time since 2004.

[PedroSpecialK]

His legacy overall is impeccable, but it does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth that he bolts shortly after bringing aboard the $40m AAV disaster twins.

[Eddie Jurak]

Sox should make the Cubs take on one of them in exchange for Theo's services.

[scotian1]

With both Theo and Tito concerned about their plans and destiny for 2012, one has to wonder if this had any influence on the apparent lack of leadership in the clubhouse the last month of the season. Anyway,thanks to Theo for the good years and the two World Series wins but I feel a bit like Clears Cleaver.

[PedroKsBambino]

If Theo and the owners are negotiating, this kind of leak is exactly what one would expect, isn't it?

Far more likely it is Theo leaking to try and show he's serious, but also possible ownership is leaking to prove to Theo they are willing to let him go, and possibly to undermine the idea that the fans will revolt.

We'll see what happens, but this looks like negotiation 101 to me.

[scotian1]

I really hope Theo doesn't leave, but if he does...wow. It's not the end of the Sox by any stretch, and I have trust in JWH and company to find the right guys, but still...a month ago, this would have been unthinkable.

It might have been unbelievable to us but it is apparent that it wasn't in the mind of Mr. Epstein.

[Drocca]

Behave. Friedman with a budget would be a wet dream.

I don't think we can say that for certain. I love Friedman and what he's done but he's whiffed on a high price free agent when he had the chance to add one and they benefited from fantastic drafting position for many years. Now, he can obviously draft and develop and I seriously question are current ability to develop but I often think that, in things stretching out even beyond baseball, some top level managers are best suited for a certain type of organization.

Not saying Friedman is or isn't, just that we don't know and can't be sure.

As for Theo, I think he has done an average job at best and am hopeful that we can get some compensation and a new GM.

[Yazdog8]

While it sounds like there have been plans for continuity after Theo leaves in Ben Cherington, this means more Lucchino in baseball ops though. Not sure that's a good thing.

edit: punctuation

Edited by Yazdog8, 11 October 2011 - 06:25 PM.

[Rough Carrigan]

Please do not let this mean more Larry Lucchino.

[hittery]

I don't think so. His time has come. Let him prove his genius in Chicago. If he can win a World Series there I will be the first to stand up and applaud. In the meantime, bring in another young gun.

Ageist!

I've certainly had my ups and downs with respect to my feelings about Theo. Since Dice-K's signing, which I hated from the get-go, there have been far more downs than ups. But I can't deny all that the guy has done for the Red Sox, and I wouldn't trade the experience of watching them win two world series for anything, except maybe the chance to do it again while my dad was still alive.

[AlNipper49]

Four years ago to know that if I heard this news now and was uncaring at best, I would have whalluped myself in the nuts.

[yecul]

Buh bye...no regrets. He is bailing out at a time when the farm system and 40-man roster are perhaps the worst positioned at any time since 2004.

This is the point.

This is not about Theo. No GM is around forever and no GM is perfect.

But why is he leaving? Is this a simple 'hey there's a better job' plus 'you suck we don't want you anymore' equalling a departure? Given the context of the season, the roster, the situation, the top to bottom texture of the organization I find that highly doubtful.

The first move the new GM makes "on his own" will be to re-sign Ortiz for PR purposes.

While it sounds like there have been plans for continuity after Theo leaves in Ben Cherington, this means more Lucchino in baseball ops though. Not sure that's a good thing.

edit: punctuation

Huzzah, I'm indifferent! It's just Theo. There are no moving parts in this organization and no reading between the lines. Person A will be replaced by Person B and we will all move on. Tra la la.

Edited by yecul, 11 October 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[SoxScout]

If Theo and the owners are negotiating, this kind of leak is exactly what one would expect, isn't it?

Far more likely it is Theo leaking to try and show he's serious, but also possible ownership is leaking to prove to Theo they are willing to let him go, and possibly to undermine the idea that the fans will revolt.

We'll see what happens, but this looks like negotiation 101 to me.

"We wanted to keep Theo all along. He wanted us to grant permission. He talked to the Cubs. We tried again REAL HARD at the end. Theo chose to leave."

Then "We are keeping everyone else. Continuity with Ben. Plus the added benefit of Larry chipping in!!!!"

Edited by SoxScout, 11 October 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[yecul]

"We wanted to keep Theo all along. He wanted us to grant permission. He talked to the Cubs. We tried again REAL HARD at the end. Theo chose to leave."

Then "We are keeping everyone else. Continuity with Ben. Plus the added benefit of Larry chipping in!!!!"

Absolutely. They think we're children.

[SoxScout]

Speier:

And while the Herald report would indicate that relocation to the Windy City is likely, one source familiar with the matter offered somewhat conflicting information, saying that the report is “not accurate.” Even so, it would appear that resolution of the Epstein situation is nearing, and the possibility that the GM could be leaving Boston is very real.

http://fullcount.wee...d-sox-for-cubs/

[Trautwein's Degree]

Please do not let this mean more Larry Lucchino.

Larry found, mentored, and ultimately promoted Theo.

[DLew On Roids]

Absolutely. They think we're children.

It's hard to blame them. Most people want something shiny and/or sweet and they're happy.

[someoneanywhere]

Dear Alex: "Somewhat conflicting information" and quoting a source's analysis of an earlier report as "not accurate" -- which could indeed mean the whole of the report or parts of it -- is mamby-pambyism and quivering journalism. Get your ass in there and get some news. You're better than that.

[Kid T]

I think he is a great general manager but I also think baseball has more great gm's than ever before and if he leaves I trust the ownership to replace him with someone more than capable.

I want someone "more than capable", I want someone who would be one of the top 3-5 GM's in the game.

[Rough Carrigan]

Larry found, mentored, and ultimately promoted Theo.

And somebody found and mentored Frank Sinatra but we probably didn't want to hear him sing in his stead.

[PedroKsBambino]

And somebody found and mentored Frank Sinatra but we probably didn't want to hear him sing in his stead.

If we were talking about singing, sure. We're talking about decision making---seems like prior success is a whole lot more relevant here.

[smastroyin]

So if Theo was average at best then I guess that means that every GM between he and Ed Barrow really really sucked.

[RedOctober3829]

If Cherington takes over, my feeling is that he will be a mouthpiece for Lucchino. I think you will see a turn towards a more traditional approach to baseball operations as well. This could be a devastating development in the long-term future of the club if that happens.

[dcmissle]

Larry found, mentored, and ultimately promoted Theo.

Years ago. How is it that everyone has a shelf life save Lucky?

I'm with Sox Scout. I don't think you get better by losing good people, and now they may have lost two. Which means they'll get better only by replacing them with more capable people. Which is possible. While keeping my mind open, I'm not holding my breath.

I'll also be keeping a very, very close eye on the RS spin machine -- for words like "abandoned" and references to cupboards being bare. Which would be consistent with our history of ending everything ugly -- and VERY conveniently attempt to set a low bar for the incoming crew. I do not want to hear "transition year".

Edited by dcmissle, 11 October 2011 - 06:48 PM.

[scotian1]

If Cherington takes over, my feeling is that he will be a mouthpiece for Lucchino. I think you will see a turn towards a more traditional approach to baseball operations as well. This could be a devastating development in the long-term future of the club if that happens.

I don't think John Henry would allow that to happen.

[Rough Carrigan]

If we were talking about singing, sure. We're talking about decision making---seems like prior success is a whole lot more relevant here.

But we're talking about two different things, one is picking a GM and the other is being an overbearing old jerk asshole and insuating yourself into having some GM-like authority. Maybe he can do the former. I fear that the latter will occur.

[E5 Yaz]

Dear Alex: "Somewhat conflicting information" and quoting a source's analysis of an earlier report as "not accurate" -- which could indeed mean the whole of the report or parts of it -- is mamby-pambyism and quivering journalism. Get your ass in there and get some news. You're better than that.

There was an extra shot of caramel in the mochafrappuccino.


The hold-up is probably the compensation. The Cubs don't have a GM, and you'd doubt the Sox would let Theo be part of these negotiations.

[Yazdog8]

Years ago. How is it that everyone has a shelf life save Lucky?

I'm with Sox Scout. I don't think you get better by losing good people, and now they may have lost two. Which means they'll get better only by replacing them with more capable people. Which is possible. While keeping my mind open, I'm not holding my breath.

I'll also be keeping a very, very close eye on the RS spin machine -- for words like "abandoned" and references to cupboards being bare. Which would be consistent with out history of ending everything ugly -- and VERY conveniently attempt to set a low bar for the incoming crew. I do not want to hear "transition year".

This team has missed the playoffs for two straight years. They backed up a Brinks truck for Crawford, Lackey and Gonzo (looking at his extension, not last year's salary). There's no way 'transition year' is uttered. The new GM is going to come in having to win immediately.

[bosockboy]

I'd love to have seen Towers with our budget....missed by a year.

[SoxScout]

Did anyone hear this?

@PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Great interview of @PeteAbe by @theDAshow on 98.5. Pete promises big Theo-Cubs news tomorrow in the Globe. I have my dollar ready.

https://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/status/123909332713746432

I'm sure he is holding out big stuff for the paper!

@ESPNChiCubs Bruce Levine
Source tells Espn chi.com that their is not a deal in place with Theo Epstein yet. Cubs checking with MLB on compensation.

https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNChiCubs/status/123908742201872385

@karlravechespn karl ravech
Cubs have been given permission to talk with Theo. Money and prospects part of discussions now. No major league player ever dealt for gm

https://twitter.com/#!/karlravechespn/status/123910057984405505

Edited by SoxScout, 11 October 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[Rough Carrigan]

Years ago. How is it that everyone has a shelf life save Lucky?

He keeps time at bay through press leaks.

[E5 Yaz]

@PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Great interview of @PeteAbe by @theDAshow on 98.5. Pete promises big Theo-Cubs news tomorrow in the Globe. I have my dollar ready.

To his credit, Pete has to wait until others report before he can come up with material for a story

[One Red Seat]

Will always respect and appreciate job Theo did here. No way 04' & 07' happen in all liklihood without him. Not sure how much his leaving is because he wants to or because he feels they want him out. If it is strictly the former, I do think it is lame to bail on a mess after you create it. There is obviously so much that goes on behind the scenes that we will never know though.
If it is him wanting out, don't want him around. Don't want more influence from Lucky though which would seem inevitable

Edited by One Red Seat, 11 October 2011 - 07:08 PM.

[IpswichSox]

Four years ago to know that if I heard this news now and was uncaring at best, I would have whalluped myself in the nuts.

Exactly how I feel. Remember "In Theo We Trust"?

How childish we were.

[Manramsclan]

I don't think John Henry would allow that to happen.

I assume this is sarcastic?

This is not a good development. The Red Sox front office has been suffering from a brain drain in the recent past with Josh Byrnes, Peter Woodfork, Jed Hoyer, McCleod and now, possibly Theo.

All of those people have had a hand in the Red Sox success during this time. How much of it is attributed to each of them remains to be seen, but I echo the sentiment that it is never good for any organization to consistently lose top young talent whether it is on the field or in the Front office.

If this is true, I don't see anything good that can come of this.

[E5 Yaz]

@GordonEdes No///RT @karlravechespn: If Epstein goes to cubs is it not too much of a reach to see francona join him there

[Yazdog8]

To his credit, Pete has to wait until others report before he can come up with material for a story

In the meantime, he'll just make sarcastic comments on twitter.

[Jinhocho]

If Cherington takes over, my feeling is that he will be a mouthpiece for Lucchino. I think you will see a turn towards a more traditional approach to baseball operations as well. This could be a devastating development in the long-term future of the club if that happens.

This seems telling. It seems much of the tension between LL and Theo came from Theo growing into his own and the job and LL wanting to keep the lil assistant/i made you/you work for me line. It was true a few years ago and I cant help but believe its true now. This move = more LL, a new mentee, etc. We will see if Henry is as involved now that he owns to franchises that require a lot of attention. Interesting times for the Sox. I would have preferred continuity and/or slowly easing LL out.

[someoneanywhere]

Would someone please tell Ravech that we are not looking to trade a MLB player FOR Theo. We're trying to trade one WITH Theo.