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What Might The 2012 Yankees Look Like


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#1 Wingack


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:07 AM

There no time like less than two hours after your team's season ends to start thinking about what the team will look like next year. So let's take a crack at it. Will there be any major changes? What needs do the Yankees have that will need to be addressed? Who will they be targeting? Are they going to be in on Yu Darvish?

Have at it.

#2 Wingack


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:02 AM

If Nova's forearm strain requires TJ surgery and CC opts out, the Yankees could very well be in severe trouble rotation-wise next year.

#3 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:17 AM

Is there any real chance CC isn't a Yankee next year? I'm fairly certain he opts out but there's no way any team outbids them with the current state of the rotation, and I haven't seen or heard any talk of him wanting to go elsewhere.

edit: I expect them to get Wilson but there will still be question marks.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 07 October 2011 - 02:22 AM.


#4 nycdoc999

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:31 AM

Can they waive ARod and AJ? If anyone is stupid enough to bite on either, that $ can be put to good use.

Seriously - unfortunately , both will be back. I'd like them to pick up Swisher's option, bring Chavez back as a LH bat off the bench, get rid of Cervelli, and go get some real starting pitching.

#5 Los Calcetines

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:04 AM

ARod 6 Years/143 Million left on his deal.

That's going to be a problem. Not so much the money, but the fact he has to be in the lineup. I don't know if it's the hip surgery, age, a combination of both but he seems to be breaking down now.

CC will opt out and be re-signed. I don't think there's much debate there. Will they go after both CJ Wilson AND Yu Darvish? I think it's an almost lock they sign CJ Wilson - they obviously need to do something with the rotation.

#6 nycdoc999

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:18 AM

ARod 6 Years/143 Million left on his deal.

That's going to be a problem. Not so much the money, but the fact he has to be in the lineup. I don't know if it's the hip surgery, age, a combination of both but he seems to be breaking down now.

CC will opt out and be re-signed. I don't think there's much debate there. Will they go after both CJ Wilson AND Yu Darvish? I think it's an almost lock they sign CJ Wilson - they obviously need to do something with the rotation.



If they sign Darvish AND Wilson to long term deals, with Nova and CC in the rotation, what happens to Banuelos? He would probably spend most of the season at AAA next year, but what about 2013? And what does that mean for Hughes, since Burnett is on the hook for 2 more years?

Makes me think they'll go after only 1 or Darvish and Wilson - and go with CC, Darvish/Wilson, Burnett, Nova, Hughes for next year and see if Hughes can actually pitch in the rotation. Of course, they'll have to be careful with the innings jump again since he was hurt this year.

#7 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:24 AM

Can they waive ARod and AJ? If anyone is stupid enough to bite on either, that $ can be put to good use.

Cervelli's a 2nd catcher and isn't a FA until 2016. Not going anywhere. Most 2nd catchers have no offense; if they did they'd be starting somewhere. If Cervelli getting roughly 1/4 of the games per season is too high (43 games this year), that's a reflection of the health of their primary starter and nothing else. If he has options, they can AAA-him if Montero starts and bring back Martin - or more realistically since Martin probably still wants to start, sign a vet caddy like Barajas, Kendall, Pudge Rodriguez.

Jesus Montero isn't lasting behind the plate due to defense - but will they commit to him as a rookie C in 2012? I know that's the thinking, but I'd rather make Montero the primary DH in the carousel now (when not spelling Tex at 1B or sitting so A-Rod can replace his hip). Mauer and Carlos Santana are already starting their transition to post-catcher careers. If Montero is that good and polished a hitter, let him start breaking all of Edgar Martinez's DH records now.

EDIT: reframed with Montero assumed to be the primary catcher in 2012

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 07 October 2011 - 08:55 AM.


#8 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:34 AM

I think C.J. Wilson's #1 on the list. Edwin Jackson is the only other one that might be considered an elite target.

Something to ponder is overall NYY starter depth, past the obvious: CC, free agent, Nova, Burnett. Does Hughes Version 4.1.3 stay in the rotation or is he better suited in RP?

At issue are the two horseshoes and Comeback Player candidates that Cashman pulled out of his ass this year - Colon and Garcia. Both vets lost steam but were maddeningly effective (w/Colon infuriatingly elite) for much of the season. It's clear NYY wasn't looking to Brinks truck all five members of their starting rotation in 2011.

With the impending money they're allocating to re-signing CC and signing a solid #2, Cashman is probably going to similarly find bargins to fill in at least one other starter. Colon/Garcia are no longer buy low candidates anymore after their 2011 performances. [Well, maybe Garcia is still a bargain.]

But Colon is probably "tween" enough regarding risk vs. reward vs. salary that Cashman may be better off trying to strike gold with new FA's and reclamations in 2012. Brandon McCarthy, Rich Harden, even bringing back Wang are possibilities.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 07 October 2011 - 08:56 AM.


#9 abty

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:20 AM

Let CC go and let the kids get their feet wet. I guess you can sign C.J Wilson although I do not see him as an ace - rather a #2 at best. CC was mediocre this second half and I don't see him getting better over time and he might be another albatross. Sometimes, it's best to avoid a risky contract and let a player prosper elsewhere than to have another anchor contract. The sting of losing an Arod after 2007 would now be offset by watching his unbearable contract bring down another team, such as , oh, the Mets.

Keep the offense strong and you'll be fine. Let's be real, the Yankees ran away with the division without a true shut down ace for the last 2 months. They will make the post-season every year so long as they keep hitting homers and don't have a complete collapse with their pitching. Find a more affordable way to shore up the front of the rotation and the back of the rotation and you guys should be fine.

#10 TheYaz67

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:38 PM

Can they waive ARod and AJ? If anyone is stupid enough to bite on either, that $ can be put to good use.

Seriously - unfortunately , both will be back. I'd like them to pick up Swisher's option


If no one picked Manny during his prime after being waived, yeah, I doubt any team is going to step up and take those guys off your hands.

And Swisher? Really? He continued to build on his now long and inglorious history as an absolute postseason failure, so I guess by all means, have some more Swish I guess...

#11 Doctor G

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:38 PM

After last spring, i expect the Yankees to insist that Hughes and Chamberlain show up in excellent shape and at playing weight in February. This certainly was not the case last year. Did this cause their injuries? It didn't help.
I would expect Hughes to have a bounceback season.

#12 rembrat


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:42 PM

Does anyone know if Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon would qualify as Type B FA?

#13 Wingack


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:56 PM

Does anyone know if Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon would qualify as Type B FA?


Last I checked Garcia did and Colon didn't.

#14 jon abbey


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:57 PM

And Swisher? Really? He continued to build on his now long and inglorious history as an absolute postseason failure, so I guess by all means, have some more Swish I guess...


Come on now, put a little more work into posting than this. He had a .916 OPS for the final 2/3 of the season, and he's turned himself into a respectable defensive RF (UZR of 8.8 this year). He was NY's best hitter for a good chunk of the season, his $10.25M option is one of the easier decisions NY has, especially given the alternatives (which would be what exactly?). He's not going anywhere.

#15 JFS7

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:11 PM

Is there any real chance CC isn't a Yankee next year? I'm fairly certain he opts out but there's no way any team outbids them with the current state of the rotation, and I haven't seen or heard any talk of him wanting to go elsewhere.

edit: I expect them to get Wilson but there will still be question marks.


CC could be new A-Rod

On Thursday, even Sabathia volunteered the obvious about himself: He
wasn't the same pitcher the last month of the season, nor in the
playoffs even though the Yanks gave him an extra day of rest between
starts the last month.

First, he failed at three shots to get his 20th win.

Then he wasn't very effective in the Yanks' Game 3 loss against the
Tigers, though he was handed a 2-0 first-inning lead.

He also surrendered the decisive run in Game 5 after coming on in relief.

Tigers center fielder Austin Jackson, who had eight strikeouts and
only one hit in 15 previous at-bats in the ALDS, touched Sabathia for
a hard-hit double in the fifth and came around to score.

#16 TheYaz67

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:26 PM

Come on now, put a little more work into posting than this. He had a .916 OPS for the final 2/3 of the season, and he's turned himself into a respectable defensive RF (UZR of 8.8 this year). He was NY's best hitter for a good chunk of the season, his $10.25M option is one of the easier decisions NY has, especially given the alternatives (which would be what exactly?). He's not going anywhere.


He was hitting .218/.343/.345 for a .688 OPS on June 11th, more than 1/3rd the way into the season, but whatever - yes, his second half was strong.

My point had nothing to do with his regular season play - for the Yankees is the regular season just really the "preseason" for the really important part of the year, no? I'm saying he tightens up in the postseason and can't be counted on - his entire postseason resume just screams "unclutch"!

In his career (one postseason with A's, one with CWS, 3 with Yankees) he has this awesome line:

.169/.295/.323 = .617 OPS

The most mind blowing part of those numbers though it the huge failure with men on base/RISP. The guy somehow has 147 plate appearances in 38 postseason games, and just 6 RBI - and 4 of those were on solo HRs! How is that even possible? Swisher is now 0-for-26 with RISP in the postseason for his entire career. So by all means, sign him up, I'm sure he'll get it going in the next 147 postseason plate appearances....

Edited by TheYaz67, 07 October 2011 - 02:27 PM.


#17 jon abbey


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:39 PM

for the Yankees is the regular season just really the "preseason" for the really important part of the year, no?


No, thankfully this silly idea died along with Papa Steinbrenner as an organizational philosophy, and now remains alive only for casual observers.

I think NY 2012 will be pretty similar to NY 2011 outside of maybe the rotation. The lineup will be the same players except for Montero replacing Posada/Jones as the everyday DH, the best move by far they could make would be finally dropping Jeter to the bottom part of the lineup against RHP. The bullpen will still have Rivera/Robertson/Soriano and possibly Hughes and/or Joba at some point.

The rotation is the big question mark, just like this season. I think NY keeps CC (one additional year) and gets outbid on Wilson and Darvish as they'll wait for the 2012 FA class for another big salary guy. I think Garcia comes back, so maybe something like CC/Nova (assuming he's OK)/Garcia/Burnett/Noesi, with Warren, Phelps, Banuelos and Betances waiting for their chances.

So, basically I think much like the past trading deadline, NY will mostly stick to internal solutions, unless some big trade falls in their lap.

#18 JohntheBaptist


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:41 PM

No, thankfully this silly idea died along with Papa Steinbrenner as an organizational philosophy, and now remains alive only for casual observers.

Not to play gotcha or anything...

"We are the Yankees," Levine told ESPNNewYork.com on Friday as he and the franchise coped with being eliminated at home in Game 5 of the ALDS by the Tigers. "That is the way The Boss set it up. When you don't win the World Series, it is a bitter disappointment and not a successful year."


You see he set it up that way jon. There's no escaping it.

#19 tims4wins


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:43 PM

No, thankfully this silly idea died along with Papa Steinbrenner as an organizational philosophy, and now remains alive only for casual observers.

Err...

"We are the Yankees," Levine told ESPNNewYork.com Friday as he and the franchise coped with being eliminated at home in Game 5 of the ALDS by the Detroit Tigers. "That is the way The Boss set it up. When you don't win the World Series, it is a bitter disappointment and not a successful year."


Edit: beaten by a a minute!

Edited by tims4wins, 07 October 2011 - 02:43 PM.


#20 jon abbey


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:45 PM

Yeah, thankfully Cashman makes the decisions (assuming he comes back), not Levine.

#21 jon abbey


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:53 PM

This was a team that tied the 2007 Red Sox with the best run differential of any team of the last decade with +210, there's no reason to make many changes.

#22 rembrat


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:56 PM

Yeah, thankfully Cashman makes the decisions (assuming he comes back), not Levine.

Levine signed Soriano though. So it's not all talk with him.

#23 RedOctober3829


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:01 PM

YankeesWFAN
Yanks say MRI on Nova showed Grade 1 flexor strain in forearm, will heal this winter. That's a DL injury during the season.



#24 ThePrideofShiner

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:06 PM

Swisher is now 0-for-26 with RISP in the postseason for his entire career.


Swisher actually got a hit with a runner in scoring position in Game 4, it just didn't score any runs.

As to your larger point, it is a bit preposterous to think the Yankees won't bring a decently-priced Swisher back just because he sucks in the postseason. I don't really know why you are arguing that point, actually. It's ridiculous.

#25 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:57 PM

I think the Yankees should sign Reyes, move Jeter to 3b, and move A-Rod to DH.

The reasons behind such moves:
(1) Keep A-Rod healthy and productive for a few more seasons before releasing him (see below).
(2) Reyes would be a huge defensive upgrade at SS. We know the Yankees can offer Reyes more money than the Mets. We know that Reyes plays very well in New York, and thus this will not be a dumb Carl Crawford signing.
(3) I have no problems with moving Jeter to 3b. He might not have ideal power for a corner infielder, but the Yankees get enough offense out of 2b. In addition, Reyes is one of the best offensive SS in the game.
(4) The goal is to get a few more productive years out of A-Rod and then release him. I realize that A-Rod has a lot of money remaining on his contract, but I agree with Bill Madden's argument that A-Rod cheapens the Yankees brand. In the long term interests of the Yankees, the best business decision is to release A-Rod before he passes Ruth and Aaron. A-Rod is not a HOF player--the steroid junkies aren't getting in. The Yankees have the greatest legacy in sports history and they can't let a fraudulent player like A-Rod taint that legacy by passing Ruth and Aaron while wearing the pinstripes. Madden's piece from 2009: http://articles.nyda...teroids-scandal
(5) As far as Montero goes, I would keep working on his defensive skills as a catcher in Triple A and promote him during the season.

Edited by FanSinceBoggs, 07 October 2011 - 05:21 PM.


#26 BigSoxFan


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:00 PM

I think the Yankees should sign Reyes, move Jeter to 3b, and move A-Rod to DH.

The reasons behind such moves:
(1) Keep A-Rod healthy and productive for a few seasons before releasing him (see below).
(2) Reyes would be a huge defensive upgrade at SS. We know the Yankees can offer Reyes more money than the Mets. We know that Reyes plays very well in New York, and thus this will not be a dumb Carl Crawford signing.
(3) I have no problems with moving Jeter to 3b. He might not have ideal power for a corner infielder, but the Yankees get enough offense out of 2b. In addition, Reyes is one of the best offensive SS in the game.
(4) The goal is to get a few more productive years out of A-Rod and then release him. I realize that A-Rod has a lot of money remaining on his contract, but I agree with Bill Madden's argument that A-Rod cheapens the Yankees brand. In the long term interests of the Yankees, the best business decision is to release A-Rod before he passes Ruth and Aaron. A-Rod is not a HOF player--the steroid junkies aren't getting in. The Yankees have the greatest legacy in sports history and they can't let a fraudulent player like A-Rod taint that legacy by passing Ruth and Aaron while wearing the pinstripes. Madden's piece from 2009: http://articles.nyda...teroids-scandal
(5) As far as Montero goes, I do see him as the long term DH for the Yankees. But I would keep working on his defensive skills as a catcher in Triple A and promote him during the season.


Wait, you honestly believe A-Rod passing Ruth/Aaron in a Yankees uniform would "taint" the Yankees' legacy? Like, seriously?

#27 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:05 PM

Wait, you honestly believe A-Rod passing Ruth/Aaron in a Yankees uniform would "taint" the Yankees' legacy? Like, seriously?


I agree with Bill Madden on these points: http://articles.nyda...teroids-scandal

A-Rod cheapens the Yankees brand.

#28 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:06 PM

Also, Jeter moving off shortstop? If he wouldn't do it for the best player in the game he certainly won't do it for Reyes.

#29 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:19 PM

But how many more years can the Yankees keep Jeter at SS? His declining range will turn into a major problem if it isn't one already.

Edited by FanSinceBoggs, 07 October 2011 - 05:22 PM.


#30 jon abbey


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:37 PM

Jeter looked rejuvenated the last part of the year, defensively as well as offensively. I feel better about him for 2012 than I did going into 2011, one year at a time.

#31 Meff Nelton

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:52 PM

I agree with Bill Madden on these points: http://articles.nyda...teroids-scandal

A-Rod cheapens the Yankees brand.


Guh? So, because Bill Madden is a proven idiot, you think there's declarative proof?

Does Manny invalidate '04 and '07? I certainly don't think so.

Great players are great later into their careers. Thankfully, A-Rod's contract pays him out early, before his ultra-decline years (though of course at the time it was still a horrible sign.) If he can stay healthy, he can still be an asset to the franchise, if still not worth what he is paid. Of course, he is increasingly unlikely to stay healthy, which I think had more to do with his production in this series than anything else.

Interesting question of the offseason - is Darvish's posting fee as high as Matsuzaka's, despite his better observable quality? I have no idea what that number is going to be. The one thing that is obvious is that there is no risk in being the highest. Just send him back to Japan if he doesn't agree to terms.

Edited by Meff Nelton, 07 October 2011 - 11:00 PM.


#32 Meff Nelton

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:10 PM

(5) As far as Montero goes, I would keep working on his defensive skills as a catcher in Triple A and promote him during the season.


Also, as far as this is concerned, I would take 3-1 odds in my favor that Montero is one of the two best hitters in the offense next season. You don't voluntarily decline production like that, even if he is a secret juicer silently robbing the Yankee organization of all its credibility. This tin foil hat hurts.

#33 Sprowl


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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:25 PM

Come on now, put a little more work into posting than this. He had a .916 OPS for the final 2/3 of the season, and he's turned himself into a respectable defensive RF (UZR of 8.8 this year). He was NY's best hitter for a good chunk of the season, his $10.25M option is one of the easier decisions NY has, especially given the alternatives (which would be what exactly?). He's not going anywhere.


Swisher is the perfect RF for the Yankees: he's a bit of a klutz on defense, but he's in the smaller part of the field where his bad breaks can be hidden. He's not a great hitter, but he's a good one, and very patient (11th in the AL in P/PA). He's a switch-hitter with good right-handed power and performance on a predominantly left-handed team in a park where the Yankees will face lots of left-handed starters. He's the kind of moderately-priced filler in RF that the Red Sox ought to have in LF.

#34 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:36 AM

Jeter looked rejuvenated the last part of the year, defensively as well as offensively. I feel better about him for 2012 than I did going into 2011, one year at a time.


Still, the oldest starting SS to ever win a World Series was Pee Wee Reese, who won with the Dodgers in 1955 at age 37. Jeter turns 38 in June. Reyes is 9 years younger than Jeter.

For me, signing Reyes and moving Jeter to 3b and A-Rod to DH makes more sense than signing Fielder for DH, and keeping Jeter at SS and A-Rod at 3b. I'm expecting the Yankees to pursue a top offensive player in free agency, along with starting pitching.

#35 Brickowski

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:45 AM

Their issue is pitching, not the position players. They need to fix their starting rotation, either by rehabilitating guys like Hughes, or giving Banuelos or Betances a crack at the rotation (or a combination of both). They also need to find a backup closer. Rivera can't go on forever-- or can he?


As for Montero, let him catch. Maybe he's weak defensively, but so was Mike Piazza. Montero can learn to play the position in the majors just as easily as he can in AAA. Besides, he hasn't looked that bad behind the plate. He's got a decent arm.

Edited by Brickowski, 08 October 2011 - 08:45 AM.


#36 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:56 AM

Also, as far as this is concerned, I would take 3-1 odds in my favor that Montero is one of the two best hitters in the offense next season.


But if the Yankees don't like the starting pitchers on the free agent market, and if there is good chance that Cashman will not be overly enamored by them, Montero might be used as a trade chip to acquire a top starter: http://www.nydailyne...ading_chip.html

Edited by FanSinceBoggs, 08 October 2011 - 09:05 AM.


#37 FanSinceBoggs

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:02 AM

Their issue is pitching, not the position players.



Some people have argued that the Yankees lost to the Rangers in the 2010 ALCS because the left side of their infield defense was too old and slow.

As far as the 2011 ALDS goes, the Yankees problem was a lack of offense in big spots.

I agree, however, that the Yankees will need to bring in a few new starting pitchers for 2012. But for 2011, the Yankees starting pitching was quite strong and we can't blame the game 5 loss to the Tigers on the starting pitching or the bullpen.

Edited by FanSinceBoggs, 08 October 2011 - 09:04 AM.


#38 Brickowski

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:31 AM

As far as the 2011 ALDS goes, the Yankees problem was a lack of offense in big spots.




True enough, but they were lucky that Burnett had one of his very few good outings in game 4.

As for trading Montero, yes, but only for an undamaged no. 1 starter. And even then they may not need to trade him if Banuelos is as good as advertised. 21 year-old slugging catchers do not grow on trees, and (unlike Theo Epstein) Cashman has not traded away any of his top young pitching prospects (except Ian Kennedy a few years ago). If they have to go shopping for a pitcher, they might offer Gary Sanchez, who is also an outstanding catching prospect but who will not be ready for at least two years

#39 Freddy Linn


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:39 PM

True enough, but they were lucky that Burnett had one of his very few good outings in game 4.

As for trading Montero, yes, but only for an undamaged no. 1 starter. And even then they may not need to trade him if Banuelos is as good as advertised. 21 year-old slugging catchers do not grow on trees, and (unlike Theo Epstein) Cashman has not traded away any of his top young pitching prospects (except Ian Kennedy a few years ago). If they have to go shopping for a pitcher, they might offer Gary Sanchez, who is also an outstanding catching prospect but who will not be ready for at least two years


They need to deal him to a team that can commit to him as a DH. Game 5 was an indictment of his defensive capabilities, and I would bet other GMs don't even consider him a C right now. He really needs to prove his mere competency as a catcher to increase his trade value.

I've said this before, but I would be surprised if he catches 200 games in what will be a long, productive career. Without other positional options right now that is tough to commit to.

#40 abty

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:14 PM

Trade him while his value is through the roof. Matt Cain is yours, right now, if you do so. I like Cain and feel he is underrated and could help your team tremendously. You could also find yourself landing a good young pitching prospect or two if a team has depth in pitching but no hitting. I would not let him struggle as catcher. Instead, make improvements with the team by using one of the most valuable chips in baseball.

#41 Freddy Linn


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:21 PM

Trade him while his value is through the roof. Matt Cain is yours, right now, if you do so. I like Cain and feel he is underrated and could help your team tremendously. You could also find yourself landing a good young pitching prospect or two if a team has depth in pitching but no hitting. I would not let him struggle as catcher. Instead, make improvements with the team by using one of the most valuable chips in baseball.


Where on earth would the Giants put him? They have a catcher who is better than Montero. He pretty much has to go to the AL.

#42 Brickowski

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:33 PM

They need to deal him to a team that can commit to him as a DH. Game 5 was an indictment of his defensive capabilities, and I would bet other GMs don't even consider him a C right now. .


It's unfair to indict a player who never got into the game. Maybe game 5 is an indictment of Girardi for not using Montero, especially to pinch hit for Martin in that bases loaded situation.

#43 jon abbey


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 03:54 PM

It's not an "indictment" of either Girardi or Montero, both of those statements are ridiculous. We're talking about a 21 year old with a grand total of 22 innings catching in the major leagues possibly replacing a very good defensive catcher. There's a reason Leyland stuck with Avila over V-Mart all series even though it would have decidedly helped his lineup to make the switch.

#44 Brickowski

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:28 PM

I would have hit for Martin in that situation. He was hitless and not swinging the bat well. I understand why Girardi didn't.


As for Leyland, if he had used VMart to catch, who did he have to DH who was better than Avila, who was 19/82/.295 with a .895 OPS for the season, plus he swings from the left side? Putting Avila in the lineup was a no brainer. His OPS was over 250 point's higher than Martin's.

Edited by Brickowski, 08 October 2011 - 05:29 PM.


#45 Freddy Linn


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:43 PM

It's not an "indictment" of either Girardi or Montero, both of those statements are ridiculous. We're talking about a 21 year old with a grand total of 22 innings catching in the major leagues possibly replacing a very good defensive catcher. There's a reason Leyland stuck with Avila over V-Mart all series even though it would have decidedly helped his lineup to make the switch.


The Avila/VMart analogy isn't relevant - is anybody really going to sit a lefty with a 900 OPS in a deciding game in a stadium with a short porch? I am talking about a bases loaded situation and/or the eighth inning at-bat. If you had said to me that Montero was the only catcher left, fine. But Martin was busy putting up a 569 OPS+ in the series. He has a career OPS in the playoffs of 656. Montero is already 2-2 in the series. You only get 27 outs, and they had five left. Why isn't he hitting there? Worst case scenario you can lose the DH if he gets hurt.

I wouldn't have Montero stapled to the bench in an elimination game, just wondering why and if it was concerns about his defense.

#46 ivanvamp


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

Jeter looked rejuvenated the last part of the year, defensively as well as offensively. I feel better about him for 2012 than I did going into 2011, one year at a time.


His dWAR (b-ref) was -1.7. Not good. But offensively, starting with the night he got his 3000th hit, he put up this line the rest of the year: 65 g, .338/.392/.451/.843

You could certainly do a LOT worse offensively at SS than that. I don't think he will do that over a full season next year, but it wouldn't shock me at all if he had around 200 hits and hit around .300 next year. He's being paid more than he's worth (true of a lot of guys), but he's still quite serviceable at short.

#47 jon abbey


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:06 PM

His dWAR (b-ref) was -1.7. Not good.


Right, but I'm saying that his D was also better after the disabled list stint, from observation obviously.

#48 jon abbey


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:09 PM

NY's first order of business is of course to resolve the Cashman situation, Olney just tweeted:

"@Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Sources: Contract talks over a new deal for Yankees GM Brian Cashman going smoothly, could be concluded by the end of next week."

https://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/122801063786065920

Dude is going to get paid a lot, and he deserves it IMO.

#49 rembrat


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:13 PM

Question: Why wouldnt the Yankees let Swisher walk, find a cheaper solution to RF, and take that $10M plus some more and throw it at CJ Wilson? 200IP from a great LHP plus he is a great clubhouse guy who wont go apeshit in NY. Am I crazy, isnt this a slam dunk signing for the Yankees?

#50 jon abbey


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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:20 PM

Question: Why wouldnt the Yankees let Swisher walk, find a cheaper solution to RF, and take that $10M plus some more and throw it at CJ Wilson? 200IP from a great LHP plus he is a great clubhouse guy who wont go apeshit in NY. Am I crazy, isnt this a slam dunk signing for the Yankees?


I don't think it's an either/or, I think they'll pick up the option on Swisher regardless.

I think they'll go after Wilson, but not hard enough to get him. I think Cashman is going to do his best to only give big deals to genuine superstars in the future, and I'm not sure Wilson quite qualifies, although I am a fan. How high would you bid on him? He will turn 31 in a few weeks, I think he'll end up with something like 6/120, and that's a big commitment.




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