209 replies to this topic

[Brianish]

Thought the guy deserved his own thread. He doesn't get a lot of attention for it, but he's almost always solid, and he has absolutely been killing it in this season's post-mortem. From asking the questions no one else will, to actually providing information to his readership, rather than vague innuendos, we'd be a lot less informed without this guy in the game lately. And he's doing it without the pointless vitriol that the Boston media usually can't avoid.

This article in particular does a great job of tying together a lot of the issues flying around: http://espn.go.com/b...-your-head-spin

[E5 Yaz]

Always the first read. Always the best read.

Speier's the only one in the same ballpark.

[Curll]

All season Gordo was tweeting from the park and never complained or insulting/DM'd fans taunting them. While perhaps not offering the best insight (not his job anyway), he was at the absolute edge of most news and truly helped the fans get a better perspective on the games/clubs this year.

Kudos.

Edited by Curll, 01 October 2011 - 09:57 AM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

The contrast between him and Pete Abe is shocking. Edes has always been good, but he's really stepped it up to another level recently. One of the few who seem completely disinterested in putting themselves into the story.

[bloodysox]

He's one of my favorite Boston sports writers. It seems like 90% of Boston sports writers are idiots or hacks, but Edes is far from that. I'm glad he's finally getting the recognition he deserves.

[AlNipper49]

Gordon was SoSH's 2nd media buddy (after Art Martone) and our first Main Board chat. He's always been extremely friendly towards his readers like this and while it's a nuanced opinion, he's one of the few who is willing to let his writing define him rather than making outlandish opinions to secure eyeballs.

[mabrowndog]

Gordon has mastered every aspect of writing and reporting on baseball. Whether it's being at the forefront of breaking news, exposing the soft underbelly of controversies when many sources have crawled into their shells, blogging relevantly on a regular and timely basis, conducting on-camera appearances with NESN and ESPN with confidence and clarity, or producing in-depth fluff-free feature stories that are compelling and well-written, he does it all.

And, as noted above, he does so without being a pompous, arrogant, self-centered, sniping, muck-raking douchebag. In fact, he's the antithesis of every one of those descriptors, a class act all the way.

Edited by mabrowndog, 01 October 2011 - 10:19 AM.

[Archer1979]

It was mentioned in yesterday during Tito's and then the GM press conferences, and its true, Edes has been going after this story relentlessly. I think he's gotten a lot more secure about his position with it, is now asking questions that really need to be asked. I can't wait until he gets a few more quotes or writes the inevitable book on this season because you know its going to go places that others would be afraid to take it.

Edited by Archer1979, 01 October 2011 - 01:20 PM.

[the1andonly3003]

Edes actually responds to his Twitter followers and takes jabs from fans in stride (many times from me)

[mabrowndog]

One more thing about Gordon...

He's eagerly invested the time and energy to learn and understand many of the advanced metrics used by a new generation of bloggers, analysts and GMs. While he doesn't widely present them to his audience (ummm, it's friggin' ESPN.com, Land of the Dunderheads, so this shouldn't be a shock) when he does the concepts are conveyed with clarity -- but never a hint of condescension.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

What I think Edes gets is that cultivating sources isn't about cozying up to people and making friends and letting them "win" the story. It's about always quoting them correctly, letting them have their say, and letting the readers decide what's what. He's not afraid to ask hard questions because he doesn't make it personal, and the guys answering the questions know he's not making it personal, and they just don't answer if they don't want to.

So many of these clowns are terrified the players/coaches/management won't be "friends" with them anymore and drop them leaks anymore (that just further their own agendas anyway) if they ask hard questions.

You can sometimes get some scoops with the cozying up, but you're doing your readers a disservice in the long run by never giving them the full picture because you get completely shut out by the guys on the other side of the story.

[CoRP]

Wow, some serious ball-washing here. If I'm Gord, I print this thread out and show it to my wife. Might be worth a beej.

[mikeford]

Wow, some serious ball-washing here. If I'm Gord, I print this thread out and show it to my wife. Might be worth a beej.

I'd show it to my editor. Might be worth a raise.


Anyway, Edes has definitely been the best member of the Boston baseball media throughout this entire saga. During the Tito/Theo joint press conference, he was the only one digging for answers on follow-ups, then at the Tito solo press conference, he was seemingly the only one not lobbing softballs at the guy.

Thank god for real, honest to god journalists. There ain't many left. Edes is one of em though.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Something I learned the past month from reading Speier and Edes - Boston writers can actually be critical without being repeatedly snarky. Sorry, but I want updates, information, and analysis when my team is in an epic free-fall. Shove the never ending, condescending, "witty" remarks up your ass.

[someoneanywhere]

Speaking from a background in it: the most difficult thing you need to learn as a reporter is that you are very rarely going to ask a question -- even a so-called "hard question" -- that your subjects have not already asked or considered themselves. Failure to ask is almost always about something other (failure of nerve, protectin access to sources, etc.) than something relevant. And in my experience, I always found that I increased my access to sources when I learned to ask the tough ones.

[pedros hairstylist]

Tough but fair. That's how you get respect from and keep sources. Edes doesn't carry water for the organization so he's not burdened by some misguided sense of "loyalty" to ownership when it's time -- like right now -- to call them on the carpet.

[budcrew08]

Speaking from a background in it: the most difficult thing you need to learn as a reporter is that you are very rarely going to ask a question -- even a so-called "hard question" -- that your subjects have not already asked or considered themselves. Failure to ask is almost always about something other (failure of nerve, protectin access to sources, etc.) than something relevant. And in my experience, I always found that I increased my access to sources when I learned to ask the tough ones.

This goes even into the smaller, local levels of sports and news journalism. Your sources might not be happy about the tough questions at that moment, but later on, they'll respect you for it.

[the1andonly3003]

would love to know what his spat with Pujols was about during spring training...

[swyman18]

Edes actually responds to his Twitter followers and takes jabs from fans in stride (many times from me)

Sometimes he responds too much, in my opinion. I can't stand the "What's the score of the Yankees game?" and "What day do the playoffs start?" that he gets from his followers. I know he doesn't want to be rude and ignore people, but really? He needs to tell people he is not their personal automated information engine.

[the1andonly3003]

Sometimes he responds too much, in my opinion. I can't stand the "What's the score of the Yankees game?" and "What day do the playoffs start?" that he gets from his followers. I know he doesn't want to be rude and ignore people, but really? He needs to tell people he is not their personal automated information engine.

well, game scores would be useful for mobile users who use Twitter as the information source

[mabrowndog]

well, game scores would be useful for mobile users who use Twitter as the information source

But there are numerous sources on Twitter for up-to-the-minute information of almost any sort, including sports scores. There is no reason to bother anyone for a personal response on that type of crap.

[Darnell's Son]

But there are numerous sources on Twitter for up-to-the-minute information of almost any sort, including sports scores. There is no reason to bother anyone for a personal response on that type of crap.

Plus, I'm pretty sure there's an app for that.

[SoxScout]

Plus you can just unfollow him if you don't like it. Lauber, McAdam, Silverman will give you the minimalist. Abraham the bullshit. Edes and Speier in the middle. And the projo guys will pound you with everything.

[Blacken]

And the projo guys will pound you with everything.

Ye gods, yes.

Also they were whining up a storm when people were tuned into the Bruins during the Cup run. That was funny.

[the1andonly3003]

Plus you can just unfollow him if you don't like it. Lauber, McAdam, Silverman will give you the minimalist. Abraham the bullshit. Edes and Speier in the middle. And the projo guys will pound you with everything.

I guess this is why ppl go to Edes: he doesn't flood you with tweets...imo, McAdam and Edes is the perfect Red Sox beat writer combo to follow on Twitter

[mrsbeasley]

I guess this is why ppl go to Edes: he doesn't flood you with tweets...imo, McAdam and Edes is the perfect Red Sox beat writer combo to follow on Twitter

It's just the opposite, in my opinion. I stopped following Edes mostly because he retweets EVERY question he gets when he responds instead of just responding to that person and it gets to the point where he WAS flooding my timeline. When there is a legitimately interesting question I can see doing the RT thing, but questions like "What time does the game start" (which he seems to get a ton of) hold no interest to me. I'm already on Twitter which means I have access to a smart phone, a tablet or a computer...I don't need information like that from someone I follow for sports news.

[swyman18]

It's just the opposite, in my opinion. I stopped following Edes mostly because he retweets EVERY question he gets when he responds instead of just responding to that person and it gets to the point where he WAS flooding my timeline. When there is a legitimately interesting question I can see doing the RT thing, but questions like "What time does the game start" (which he seems to get a ton of) hold no interest to me. I'm already on Twitter which means I have access to a smart phone, a tablet or a computer...I don't need information like that from someone I follow for sports news.

Exactly. While I understand that the people asking the dumb questions probably aren't using a smartphone and are tweeting via text message, I still can't believe people don't think twice about wasting a sports writer's time with these ridiculous questions. Even without a smartphone, there are plenty of simple WAP enable sites that will work on basic cell phones that have web access. They just need to stop being so lazy and cheap and pay for the data plan.

If Gordon wants to answer them, fine, but I just wish he would respond only to that person.

[the1andonly3003]

some ppl using twitter are not as internet savvy as some us here...

[swyman18]

some ppl using twitter are not as internet savvy as some us here...

Perhaps. But, I think tweeting via SMS (texting) is more difficult and cumbersome than using a twitter app. If they can do that, I think they can come up with a way to not bother Edes with the lame questions. There are easy enough ways to get scores on a basic cell phone. It just takes a little research.

[SoxScout]

Nip posted an Edes SoSH chat from Nov 2001 two weeks ago.... http://sonsofsamhorn...35#entry3752935

If you want to feel good about the 2011 season, read it. Specifically, CTRL+F and look for every answer with "Everett" in it. Jeeeeeeeez.

[Brianish]

http://espn.go.com/b...-smear-campaign

Killing. It.

Brings up this really disturbing, and reasonable, point:

Makes you wonder how much trust Sox players will have in their medical staff going forward, knowing that any issues they might have could be fair game for public consumption.

[PedroSpecialK]

Score another one for Edes's integrity:

Gordon Edes

I knew about Tito's personal issues. Didn't feel they were germane//RT @willmichaeliam: @GordonEdes Agree w/column but let me ask u, what's the role/responsibility of the journalist? If source gave u this info would u write it?

[Kid T]

http://espn.go.com/b...-smear-campaign

Killing. It.

Brings up this really disturbing, and reasonable, point:

And if the sourcing is from a Red Sox employee or medical professional (and there's little doubt in my mind), it's a clear HIPAA Violation

[AusTexSoxFan]

Gordon Edes once publically complimented MikeF for his insightful Spring Training reports.

That's what sealed him as the best writer for me.

[the1andonly3003]

Gordon says hello:

http://espn.go.com/b...y-red-sox-saved

Who gets to go to this roundtable discussion?

[Sille Skrub]

Gordo has been one of the few shining stars during these dark hours.

Great writing and a must follow on the Twitter.

[Brianish]

http://espn.go.com/b...y-red-sox-saved

Let me be the first to make this prediction: The Red Sox will be in the playoffs in 2012. And it would not shock me if they won it all.

If I'm wrong, I'll walk from Fenway Park to my hometown of Lunenburg, a stroll of 45 miles or so, wearing a T-shirt that reads, "I'm the Idiot Who Picked the Red Sox.'' Click and save.

Includes a shout out.

For good measure, CEO Larry Lucchino should schedule one of those round-table discussions of which he is so fond, televise it on NESN, and have Josh Beckett and Jon Lester sit down with a group of informed fans (I'm sure the Sons of Sam Horn would happily round up a representative crew) and answer to their conduct in September. Light refreshments only.

Edited by Brianish, 14 October 2011 - 09:45 AM.

[Stu Nahan]

The rest of the press corps looks more and more pathetic as Edes continues to contribute good, sensible pieces and tweets about this whole mess.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

If it's light refreshments only, I'm not sure you could entice anyone from this crowd. A plate of bacon on the other hand...

[PedroSpecialK]

I loved this (emphasis mine):

1. Red Sox owners buy a full-page ad in the Boston Globe, the same instrument they used anonymously to shred the reputation of outgoing manager Terry Francona, and publish an apology to their fans, signed by all three owners, for allowing the franchise to implode on their watch, both on and off the field.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 14 October 2011 - 11:31 AM.

[dcmissle]

Gordon is just so damn sound, all around.

I was particularly interested in this, not only because it would be a smart move but also because it's plausible. (The apology -- fuggedaboutit; the sociopaths in the executive suite will double down on the smear campaign -- next time going after Theo (who is guilty of "abandonment' and "treachery") -- before even considering an apology.)

2. Make every effort to sign Jacoby Ellsbury to a multiyear contract extension. He's a Scott Boras client, so it will be tough, but Ellsbury clearly has taken the next step to superstar level, the fans love him and he has the potential to be face-of-the-franchise material. And if the Sox succeed in locking him up long term, the way they did Lester, Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis, call in Ellsbury and remind him that when he was younger, he was a leader on every team on which he played and he was proud of that fact. Urge him to step up and take a similar role on this team rather than retreating inward. He has the skill set to do so.

This would be the baseball equivalent of the cheating husband buying the 5-carat ring for aggrieved wife heading out the door. Cads make amends in this fashion. So that's another reason to stay angry, keep the crap stirring and refuse to turn the page.

Thanks Gordo.

Edited by dcmissle, 14 October 2011 - 12:14 PM.

[the1andonly3003]

here we go:

https://twitter.com/#!/GordonEdes/status/125050514500100096

"Did I miss something? Where and when did Bob Hohler publicly say Sox owners were not sources for his story, as John Henry contends?"

[JCizzle]

here we go:

https://twitter.com/#!/GordonEdes/status/125050514500100096

"Did I miss something? Where and when did Bob Hohler publicly say Sox owners were not sources for his story, as John Henry contends?"

Also:

http://twitter.com/#!/GordonEdes

GordonEdes Gordon Edes
And why were Sox owners not quoted once in that story, or specifically cited as saying they had no comment? Players were cited by name.

Valid questions in my opinion.

Edited by JCizzle, 14 October 2011 - 10:49 PM.

[PedroSpecialK]

Agreed. I was baffled by Henry stating that Hohler had gone on record absolving all of L/W/H of being the team source, apparently only JWH has access to that piece.

[thestardawg]

Agreed. I was baffled by Henry stating that Hohler had gone on record absolving all of L/W/H of being the team source, apparently only JWH has access to that piece.

Wild speculation.

Perhaps that's what Hohler told JWH, Lucky and Werner as they whispered sweet nothings about terry Francona. That'd he publically deny that the ownership leaked him anything. Maybe JWH forgot Hohler actually hasn't said it publically yet.

[Rough Carrigan]

Wild speculation.

Perhaps that's what Hohler told JWH, Lucky and Werner as they whispered sweet nothings about terry Francona. That'd he publically deny that the ownership leaked him anything. Maybe JWH forgot Hohler actually hasn't said it publically yet.

Knowing part of an alibi that you should know nothing about is just the sort of thing on which Lieutenant Columbo would trip up a suspect.

Edes: Uh, just one more thing, Mr. Henry. How did you know at 4 p.m. that Bob Hohler had issued a statement saying that it wasn't you owners who leaked the information when Hohler's statement didn't come out until the next day?

Henry: (too soft to be heard)

Of course, we're still waiting for Hohler to make such a statement, though it might only mean that Lucchino or someone else widely used an intermediary and didn't directly spread slander himself. I mean, Tito's wasn't the first back Larry's stuck a knife into.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 15 October 2011 - 10:22 PM.

[PedroSpecialK]

The JWH sole access bit was tongue in cheek, I just found it interesting that he referenced a statement that hadn't been made, to my or apparently anyone else's knowledge.

[Harry Hooper]

From Edes' latest:

Henry claimed that the story's author, Bob Hohler, has said that the owners were not his sources, though if and when Hohler did so, at least publicly, is a mystery. To date, he has not done any interviews regarding the story. Hohler's colleague at the Globe, columnist Dan Shaughnessy, has been among those suggesting that the owners, or someone acting on their behalf, were the most likely sources for the damning allegations regarding Francona (an opinion I shared here as well).

An opinion? Sounds like someone might be backtracking a bit.

[pedros hairstylist]

The Globe's sports editor, Joe Sullivan (and Hohler's boss) went on Felger and Mazz today and said that a. Hohler did not confirm or deny that anyone was a source, let alone JWH, Lucky or Werner; b. Hohler wasn't planning on doing so anytime in the future; c. the story was sourced from multiple people in multiple places and that one person did not feed the story to him.

[Harry Hooper]

The Globe's sports editor, Joe Sullivan (and Hohler's boss) went on Felger and Mazz today and said that a. Hohler did not confirm or deny that anyone was a source, let alone JWH, Lucky or Werner; b. Hohler wasn't planning on doing so anytime in the future; c. the story was sourced from multiple people in multiple places and that one person did not feed the story to him.

This is about Edes, not the Globe.