38 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

“I’ve definitely made up my mind that I definitely want to come back next year,” Wakefield said. “I have another goal in front of me that I’d like to accomplish, and that’s the all-time record for the Red Sox in wins. I’m only seven away. I think the fans deserve an opportunity to watch me chase that record. We’ll see what happens.”

Wakefield earned his 200th career victory earlier this month, of which he said, “It meant the world to me. It’s a memory I’ll cherish for the rest of my life.”

Wakefield assumed a much greater role on the Boston pitching staff this year than Red Sox officials anticipated, going 7-8 with a 5.12 ERA in 154 2/3 innings. It was his highest workload in a season since 2008.

“I think I’ve pitched better than the numbers have (indicated),” Wakefield said. “But my job, as fourth or fifth starter, is to give the club innings and get us in position to win a game. I’ve never claimed to be an ace of the staff. I’ve always wanted to be that anchor. With the knuckleball, over my 18-year career, it’s been innings pitched. I feel like I’ve done that.”

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...in_2012/7081603

[Lose Remerswaal]

My love for Tim Wakefield is well documented, but this just cannot be allowed to happen.

My guess (hope?) is that this is a ruse, to make other teams and free agents think the Sox are "all set" with SP for 2012, so they can sneak in under the radar to grab someone.

[Koufax]

IT is definitely time for Tim to work on his golf swing. If he were 30 years old you could stash him at Pawtucket as the 7th starter, but the thought of him being on the 25 man roster coming out of the gate is pretty tough to take. Surely the Sox can do better.

[SeanBerry]

I am glad he wants to come back.

We can give him a non-roster invite to ST and have him make the club as a long reliever where I believe he does have value. He had a 3.63 ERA out of the pen in 10 appearances with a WHIP of nearly 1. He's perfectly suited for that role.

As much as I love the guy (I named my dog after him), he should never make 20+ starts in a season again. He speaks of being the 4th or 5th guy in the rotation. That's not ideal to say the least.

[glennhoffmania]

Dear lord no. Enough is enough. He's been a great contributor but it's time to say goodbye. He's not a reliable pitcher and his effect on the catching situation is less than ideal.

[EddieYost]

I am glad he wants to come back.

We can give him a non-roster invite to ST and have him make the club as a long reliever where I believe he does have value. He had a 3.63 ERA out of the pen in 10 appearances with a WHIP of nearly 1. He's perfectly suited for that role.

As much as I love the guy (I named my dog after him), he should never make 20+ starts in a season again. He speaks of being the 4th or 5th guy in the rotation. That's not ideal to say the least.

Right. And to give him some shot at the record, make him the guy that comes in when the Sox fall behind early. Maybe he can get some vulture wins. I don't want him being part of the rotation anymore though.

[TheoShmeo]

I liked Tito's answer to questions about next year a lot better.

Said differently, with the Sox 2011 season in the balance, I could give two shits about how Tim Wakefield thinks he fits into 2012, his chase for the Sox all time win mark or his perception of the fans' view of that quest. Frankly, after experiencing the drama and hand wringing leading up to career win 200, I think I'd rather not burden 2012 with more of the same.

Bottom line, even talking about these personal points around now is beneath him.

[OCD SS]

I think Wake will be back, but in the same role he originally had this year, which is as a mop up guy out of the 'pen and emergency starter. What will determine whether I'm happy about it or not is how much he actually pitches.

[wutang112878]

Good for Tim, glad he still has the desire to play.

Timing wise, jeez, could it be worse? How about avoid the question with a 'I am trying to do what I can to help us win today'. Does anyone really give a crap about what Wakes plans are for next year at the moment?

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I voted that he'd be back, because I think the farm system is about 1 1/2 years away from being able to contribute a good #5 starter. Having Wakefield for one more year also allows the Sox some flexibility in dumping Lackey's contract.

So yeah, I'm hoping even more than not having to watch another Wakefield start, that the Sox can either put Lackey under the knife or to fit him into the wood-chipper.

That said, a part of me hopes he doesn't set the wins record -- Cy and Fat Billy were two of the best pitchers in their times, whatever other baggage each one carried.

[yecul]

There's no question in my mind that the decision is Wakefield's. If he wants back then he's got a spot. I cannot see the organization turning him away.

I wanted to let him go a while ago. Aim higher. He's useful and inexpensive, but improvement means taking chances.

That said, they're going to need lots of pitching depth. Buchholz's back is probably going to be an ongoing issue (when are backs not?), Lackey is a major gamble to not be awful and Beckett always hits some injuries. So, what the hell. There's no evidence that this team can evaluate talent, so the odds of them upgrading are slim.

[Eric Van]

It's just tough to see how a staff with Wakefield on it is an upgrade.

They have to either re-sign Bedard or get a quality starter in a trade. Going with Lackey as your 4th starter and in-house options (Weiland, Tazawa, Doubront) as 5th is an invitation to miss the playoffs. Maybe they convert Bard, but then they need to acquire a replacement for him.

So the pen is Papelbon and Bard, or Bard and a new guy if Papelbon walks, or Papelbon and a new guy if Bard is the 5th starter ... then Morales, Aceves, Albers, Doubront as the 6th starter / long man.

That leaves one spot for Jenks, Atchison, a new under-the-radar upside acquisition (like Albers hopefully and Bonser, Littleton, etc. more likely) ... or Wakefield. Hard to see where Wakefield is the most valuable reliever of that bunch.

Now, if multiple starters go down, your options other than Doubront or Wakefield include Tazawa, Weiland, and Alex Wilson. Is Wakefield the second best of those?

I love Wakefield, but having him on the staff seems likeliest to take starts away from a Tazawa who could outpitch him, and relief appearances from a revitalized Jenks or from Atchison, who could outpitch him.

(There's also a 40-man roster squeeze issue: as I see it, to make room for Wakefield they'd have to be trading prospects for a pitcher, or not re-signing Varitek -- or, less likely, trading Salty, not picking up Scutaro's option, or cutting Jackson.)

OTOH, it would add depth, and maybe the downgrades are so slight that the extra depth is worth it. It's not an easy call.

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

We need a 'Wake will be back, and I'm ambivalent' option.

[smastroyin]

Wake wasn't that bad earlier in the year. If they plan on him getting <100 IP it is probably ok. But then, I think that was the plan this year.

So I'm ambivalent as well if he comes back, unless it is at the expense of finding another starter.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I vote think he'll be back/happy, just because I think he's a decent option as a multi-inning reliever and starters seem to go down and he's not a terrible option as a #6/7. If he gets enough opportunity to get seven wins, it's probably a bad thing, but it would be something I'd cheer.

Like others, though, I think it's in poor taste for him to have answered the question.

[Batman Likes The Sox]

I can't understand how anyone could rationally be unhappy with Wakefield returning. I mean in the real world where the Sox can't just get any pitcher that exists, and they have to deal with the actual pitching market, which seems awful.

Year after year the Sox have had to rely on Wakefield to eat up starting innings. It seems like no matter how deep their starting roster has been, Wakefield always ends up starting a lot of games.

And for 2011 especially I'm glad to have had him. He was 4th in a bunch of categories like WHIP and ERA+ for frequent Sox starters. He was 4th in innings pitched this year. He's been top 5 in innings pitched every year since 2006. Could the Sox do better than Wake? Maybe, but they obviously haven't been able to figure out how for the last half decade.

Granted there are some serious issues with putting him out there. He only put up a quality start 1/3 of the time this year. But he was still the 4th best starter on a winning team. Not to mention a solid innings-eater in the pen.

I hope he's back in 2012, and I hope he gets the wins record.

[rembrat]

Yes. We need arms because this organization has proven time and time again that it can not keep their fat fucking pitchers healthy for 162 games.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yes. We need arms because this organization has proven time and time again that it can not keep their fat fucking pitchers healthy for 162 games.

Wakefield is one of the fat pitchers and he's never healthy over the course of an entire season.

[rembrat]

I am aware of his rounded and crippling state but even with his yearly visit to the DL, he is good for 140+ innings. 140+ innings that I really don't like watching but they are useful nonetheless.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I am aware of his rounded and crippling state but even with his yearly visit to the DL, he is good for 140+ innings. 140+ innings that I really don't like watching but they are useful nonetheless.

The problem being they're not very good innings. The onus has to be on the team to make sure that Wakefield's personal goals (and he flat out admits he wants to come back to achieve a personal goal) don't conflict with the team's efforts at winning.

If they stick him in the pen as the long man, I'm fine with his return. But he shouldn't be getting a rotation spot unless 8 guys get hurt again.

[jacklamabe65]

I hope Zup chimes in with a comment here.

[brs3]

19 starts w/ at least 5 IP, Pitched into the 6th 17 times, pitched into the 7th 10 times, and had 2 starts of 8 IP.

He's allowed 5 runs or more 13 times, which is ugly..however only 6 of those games were they 5 Earned Runs or more.

If they're tired of finding a battery mate, or if the defense really hates playing behind him, maybe it's time for him to go. I'm hesitant to just jettison Wakefield in hopes that one of the youngsters take over. I'd hope they bring him back in the role he was originally intended for this season and see how it shakes out.

Wakefield is never meant to be a key part of the rotation. When he becomes a conversation piece, it's really just a comment on the rotation as a whole.

[strek1]

Don't like the wording of the poll. He shouldn't be back because he's at the end of the line. That doesn't make me "happy" because I've always liked the guy. But that's the way it needs to be for the good of the team.

[FelixMantilla]

Just shoot me.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I don't think he's a particularly effective pitcher anymore. His last two seasons have been very mediocre- ERA+ of 82-83 after ranging between 93-100 for 15 years. His 5.12 ERA, while not good in today's day and age, is also deceiving since he's given up so many unearned runs (and frankly, as a knuckleballer that comes with the territory). His RA the past two years has been 5.91 & 6.40. I guess he could bounce back, his BB rate has actually been better these past few years, but if he wants to come back, it should be on a minor-league deal, IMO. If the Sox are willing to let a pitcher get this many below average innings, it might as well be Kyle Weiland or Felix Doubront.

[Foulkey Reese]

I hate 2010/2011 Tim Wakefield and I hope I never have to see him throw another pitch. Nice timing Tim.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Don't like the wording of the poll. He shouldn't be back because he's at the end of the line. That doesn't make me "happy" because I've always liked the guy. But that's the way it needs to be for the good of the team.

This.

Though I must say his own words quoted at the top make it a little easier for me to be unsentimental about it. You're doing this for the fans? Because they "deserve" it? Seriously, Tim? Yikes.

[86spike]

That said, a part of me hopes he doesn't set the wins record -- Cy and Fat Billy were two of the best pitchers in their times, whatever other baggage each one carried.

This is important for me.

Clemens is a giant dickhead but he knotched those wins because he was a dominator. Cy Young dominated in his Red Sox tenure.

Tim Wakefield has all these wins because he throws a special pitch which is easier on his arm than most other pitchers and as a result he's had a very long career. Wakes would get the record for longevity, not for excellence.

Screw that... just retire old guy.

[NomarRS05]

He hasn't had a quality start in his last nine starts dating back to early August. I know QS isn't the end-all of stats but that's unacceptably bad. If the front office is serious about making changes in the off-season, I don't see how they can bring Wakefield back. He's been a major factor in the collapse.

[mikeford]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he like 12 wins away from that record?

At his level of pitching ability at this point, it'd take him til 2014 to get that.


I'm with Lose. I love you Tim, but please go away.

[JMDurron]

I think he'll be back, and I'm fine with that. I would be "happy" to see him take the record.

Wakefield is an obvious enough 6th starter/long man option that keeping him does not preclude the Sox from upgrading the 5th starter spot. There are enough injury concerns in the rotation (as usual) that the organization needs every piece of depth that it can get, and losing Wakefield means losing some of that depth. The minor league AAA/scrub starters can be stashed in AAA for the time being regardless of Wakefield's status, I think that the 40 man crunch is probably overstated given the likely performance levels (low, like Wakefield low without the IP reliability) of the Weiland types.

If the Sox decide to retain/acquire Bedard/his equivalent as a 5th starter, that doesn't significantly change the minor league pitching depth unless those guys are chits who are traded in order to acquire that pitcher. Acquiring that 5th starter does effectively eliminate the team's ability to sign another MLB-capable 6th starter of Wakefield's caliber or better, therefore I think retaining Wakefield is the right decision. So long as he's no higher than 6th on the depth chart, I'd be happy to see him happen to get the Wins record in the course of a few vultured/extra inning wins and several stints of starts due to the inevitable injuries to the Top 5.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he like 12 wins away from that record?

At his level of pitching ability at this point, it'd take him til 2014 to get that.


I'm with Lose. I love you Tim, but please go away.

You're wrong. He's got 186 wins for Boston, so he needs 6 to tie it and 7 to break it.

[joyofsox]

I REALLY want him to get the wins record, but his pitching over the last two months has finally put me in the No camp.

[JimBoSox9]

He'll be back. Book it.

Wake the back-end starter? Unhappy

Wake the long reliever/7th starter? Happy

[CSteinhardt]

One of the things we saw this year is that it's very difficult to keep a good 7th starter around, as any that are halfway decent want to be in the majors (a la Millwood). If Wakefield is willing to wait his turn, he's likely to be much, much better than the depth we'll be able to keep in Pawtucket, as we saw this year. Given that, I want him in the organization and I hope we project to have 6 better starters who will be healthy at the start of the year. In such a scenario, it's still quite plausible that he ends up setting the wins record, as we have a combination of fragile members of the rotation and Lackey (who might be injured, might just be way off mentally, etc., but is going to be part of this rotation when we break camp unless clearly injured).

[Beomoose]

He'll be back and I'm happy. Moreover, I don't get the hate. You'll get no argument from me that he's been roughed up in the back half of this year, even with a few of his "going for #200" losses being quality starts. As we're seeing right now, depth is depth and we need depth. Even if all he's doing is filling innings so a prospect can stay in AAA longer he'll be helping the organization.

Hell, at this point I'm more unhappy about Lackey being back next year than I'd ever be with Wake coming back.

[CoRP]

Tim's neighbors deserve to watch him mow his lawn next summer.

[86spike]

One of the things we saw this year is that it's very difficult to keep a good 7th starter around, as any that are halfway decent want to be in the majors (a la Millwood). If Wakefield is willing to wait his turn, he's likely to be much, much better than the depth we'll be able to keep in Pawtucket, as we saw this year. Given that, I want him in the organization and I hope we project to have 6 better starters who will be healthy at the start of the year. In such a scenario, it's still quite plausible that he ends up setting the wins record, as we have a combination of fragile members of the rotation and Lackey (who might be injured, might just be way off mentally, etc., but is going to be part of this rotation when we break camp unless clearly injured).

Next year Matsuzaka is going to be our 7th starter waiting in the wings until around August doing his rehab.

[Lefty on the Mound]

Since it took Wake 9 tries to get win # 200, the math says it will take him 63 more starts to get 7 more wins. I don't want him back for next season, let alone 2 more!