44 replies to this topic

[sfip]

I'll let the Yankee fans here do their best to represent Yankees Universe. As long as the wild card spot hasn't been decided, are you rooting for the Yankees to lose to Tampa Bay?

[nycdoc999]

I'll let the Yankee fans here do their best to represent Yankees Universe. As long as the wild card spot hasn't been decided, are you rooting for the Yankees to lose to Tampa Bay?

I am rooting for the Yankees to be healthy and rested going in to the playoffs.

That being said, I'd much rather face Tampa in the ALCS than Boston.

[glennhoffmania]

Really? I'd much rather face Boston than Tampa at this point if I was a NY fan. I wouldn't want to see Price and Shields in a short series instead of Lester (who is in a mini slump), Beckett and a bunch of absolute dog shit.

[Average Reds]

Caveats: Not a Yankee fan, and I think nydoc has the right attitude. (Meaning - getting the Yankees healthy and set for the playoffs has to be the first priority.)

That being said, who you'd rather face if you're the Yankees (or a fan) is an interesting question. The Sox offense is much more potent than the Rays. But the Rays pitching is, at this point, light years ahead of the Sox.

If I were a Yankee fan I might very well go against instincts and root for the Sox to hang on.

[Doctor G]

If you want to see Shields Price and Hellikson with Matt Moore in the mix, go ahead and root for the Rays.
If the Sox are forced into a playoff on Thursday, I sure as hell don't want to face moore.

[mt8thsw9th]

Why should it matter? They have home field advantage throughout first two rounds regardless. Unlike the Red Sox watching the Yankees/Ray last week, they actually have the benefit of being alright with whatever outcome happens; the Red Sox needed the Yankees to win (and fans who wanted the Rays to win were absolute morons).

[jon abbey]

Hmm, this is a tough one. While every fiber of my being wants Boston dead and buried, I do see the position that TB is a tougher baseball matchup right now.

But the thing is that playing Texas or Detroit or TB is just baseball, whereas playing Boston is more than that. I still don't think NY has a prayer of winning it all unless someone knocks off the Phillies in the NL, they can't beat Halladay or Lee in a big game, let alone both of them. But a Boston ALCS would make it even less likely, too emotionally draining, so I say go Rays.

[luckysox]

Also not a MFY fan, but I'd want no part of the Sox getting into the playoffs. If they get there, they probably will have won out vs. B'More or won 2 of 3. They will have regained confidence. And this is a team that's been all or nothing this year. A decent winning streak, or say, taking 3 of the last 4 to creep in the post season door, might just be the beginning of ALL again, as opposed to the nothing we've seen for a month now. I mean, I know it's hard to remember, but May-mid August this team was INSANELY good. They felt like they couldn't lose, and for the most part, they couldn't. If they turn back into that team, not even the Phillies will beat them.

[cromulence]

As a Yankees fan, my interest right now is solely in seeing the Red Sox finish a historic collapse. I truly do not care who makes it in; the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways and I'm of the opinion that the Yankees can (key word: can, not will) beat anyone in the AL in a 5 or 7 game series. They took 3 out of 4 from the Rays last week and nearly swept the Sox while playing it extremely conservatively. So, for me, the Yankees don't even enter into the equation anymore. I just want some history.

[EvilEmpire]

All I want is for Boston and TB to fight it out to the end and not be able to set their rotations the way they want to. I'll worry about the ALCS when and if the Yankees get there.

[terrynever]

Great question. Am I rooting for the Yankees to lose? No. I don't want them going into the playoffs on a losing streak, even if negative momentum in the final week is basically irrelevent. I just don't like to see the Yankees lose. I don't think any fan wants to see his team lose.

I can't see the Yankees laying down but with so much at stake for Tampa, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Rays sweep these final three games. Motivation is on Tampa's side.

I am rooting for Boston to lose the wild-card for a lot of reasons, one of them being I think they might be an easy out in the ALDS, especially if Lester has to pitch on Wednesday or even Thursday in a play-in game. If Boston gets in, with its lack of starting pitching, with its injuries to key players, and with its erratic defense, its opponent could sweep and then rest up for the ALCS.

If Tampa gets the wild-card, then I think we have two competitive series to look forward to. Nobody gets a rest heading into the ALDS unless they earn it.

I think Boston, based on its September slump, has earned the right to stay home. If, however, the Red Sox can beat the Orioles two or three times, then they earn the right to play in the postseason, assuming Tampa doesn't sweep the Yankees.

As always, outcomes will be determined on the field while we fans sit on our butts and watch.

Edited by terrynever, 26 September 2011 - 12:29 PM.

[TheoShmeo]

I live and work among Yankees fans.

The reaction of the fans I've spoken to is generally the same: They want Boston to be humiliated and whatever match-up differences between Tampa and Boston in a potential ALCS doesn't enter the equation. Whatever hurts the Sox and their fans the most is what they want.

So, in short, I think Yankees fans are rooting for the Yankees to lose enough to keep Boston out of the tourney.

I'd be thinking of it the same way in reverse. As much as I'd like to think I'd be thinking about the match-ups, my Yankees Hate would trump that pretty fast.

[Foulkey Reese]

As a Yankees fan, my interest right now is solely in seeing the Red Sox finish a historic collapse. I truly do not care who makes it in; the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways and I'm of the opinion that the Yankees can (key word: can, not will) beat anyone in the AL in a 5 or 7 game series. They took 3 out of 4 from the Rays last week and nearly swept the Sox while playing it extremely conservatively. So, for me, the Yankees don't even enter into the equation anymore. I just want some history.

I would feel the exact same way if the situations were reversed.

[terrynever]

A better question might be: Is Joe Girardi rooting for the Yankees to lose against Tampa?

Here's the pitching rotation, via LoHud:

Monday: Hector Noesi
Tuesday: Bartolo Colon
Wednesday: TBA

• Girardi when asked who he’s considering to start Wednesday: “It might be a bullpen day.”

[RingoOSU]

I would feel the exact same way if the situations were reversed.

But you're a member on a Red Sox site.. This guy's a lurker on the same. Can someone tell me what he's adding here by saying shit like that besides trolling?

[AMS25]

A better question might be: Is Joe Girardi rooting for the Yankees to lose against Tampa?

Here's the pitching rotation, via LoHud:

Monday: Hector Noesi
Tuesday: Bartolo Colon
Wednesday: TBA

• Girardi when asked who he's considering to start Wednesday: "It might be a bullpen day."

If Joe really wanted to stick it to the Sox, why didn't he bring Jeets or A-Rod into the game last night? I kept expecting one of those guys to pinch-hit......

[Brickowski]

IMHO Girardi has the right approach. You want your regulars to play enough to be sharp, but not to be overworked. You want your playoiff rotation and key bullpen guys rested. But even so, you try to win games. Losing can become a habit whether you are trying to lose or not. As for rooting for some horrible Sox collapse, the notion that if you root for the Yankees you have to hate the Red Sox, and vice versa is a little sophomoric, isn't it? If the Yanks don't win, I'd just as soon see the Sox win-- or TB for that matter. I admire what TB has done with its tiny payroll.

As for me, playing the Sox vs TB is a tossup. The real question is not which team the Yankees woulkd rather face, but rather which of those teams has the best shot of beating Detroit, whiich is the team I would least like to face in the ALCS.

Edited by Brickowski, 26 September 2011 - 02:04 PM.

[terrynever]

If Joe really wanted to stick it to the Sox, why didn't he bring Jeets or A-Rod into the game last night? I kept expecting one of those guys to pinch-hit......

His explanation was they hadn't played since 4 p.m. and he feared they could get hurt after having "shut their bodies down." Fair enough to me. Those two are not young men anymore.

[jon abbey]

But you're a member on a Red Sox site.. This guy's a lurker on the same. Can someone tell me what he's adding here by saying shit like that besides trolling?

He's just answering the question, and as Foulkey pointed out, it was a perfectly reasonable response.

[bob burda]

If I'm a Yankee fan, and if I buy BP's "special sauce" and Bill James' obserservations that playoff teams historically need two critical components, the ability to hit HRs (because sequential offense is hard to find against good teams in the playoffs)and shut down relief, I'm rooting for the Rays.

That said, you can argue it is possible to get some sequential offense going vs. the Sox these days, so who cares about their relief - but Lester was still a caught soft liner away from getting out of that inning in NY. You may not fear Beckett/Lester as much as Shields/Price, but you still have to respect them.

[cromulence]

But you're a member on a Red Sox site.. This guy's a lurker on the same. Can someone tell me what he's adding here by saying shit like that besides trolling?

The point of this thread was to ask Yankee fans how they're approaching these last three games. I gave my honest response. Trust me, I've learned to keep my head down here; I wouldn't dream of trolling like that.

[Sprowl]

He's just answering the question, and as Foulkey pointed out, it was a perfectly reasonable response.

Like Foulkey, I would feel exactly the same way as cromulence if the situation were reversed.

I'd also share Terry's instinct, which is never, ever root for your team to lose. It's bad karma, and losing is a bad habit you don't want to get into.

[Walpole Joe's Neighbor]

As a Yankees fan, my interest right now is solely in seeing the Red Sox finish a historic collapse. I truly do not care who makes it in; the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways and I'm of the opinion that the Yankees can (key word: can, not will) beat anyone in the AL in a 5 or 7 game series. They took 3 out of 4 from the Rays last week and nearly swept the Sox while playing it extremely conservatively. So, for me, the Yankees don't even enter into the equation anymore. I just want some history.

I'd feel exactly the same way. I'd want the Yankees to crash and burn. What I take umbrage with is saying they played it conservatively. Please. Mariano Rivera came into a tie game in the 9th inning. That's not unusual of course but let's not pretend GI Joe wasn't trying and hoping to bury the Red Sox once and for all . Maybe they didn't go crazy by pinch hitting certain guys but make no mistake he was managing to win. Now they've earned the right to do what they want with Tampa but I'll be very surprised if we see the same level of urgency. And seeing the pitching rotation lends some credence to that.

So Yankees fans want the Sox to crash and burn and I totally get that but also if the Red Sox get in it means they've rebounded a bit and they might not admit it but they fear the Red Sox (and the possibility of losing to the Red Sox) more than they fear Tampa (and losing to Tampa with the Red Sox watching from home). And I can relate to that too. The Sox if they do get in are dangerous and anyone who thinks it's impossible or even highly unlikely for Lackey to outpitch Nova in a playoff game for instance is naive. I'm not saying he will or he'd be odds on to do it..but once your in anything can happen and Yankee fans would just as soon that opportunity never presents itself to the Sox.

[SemperFidelisSox]

What Yankee fans should really be rooting for is a 1 game playoff on Thursday. The winner would have no time to rest players, relievers or to set up their rotation for the Division Series, making them an easier match-up for Texas/Detroit. You don;t have to worry about Boston or Tampa in the ALCS if they never get there.

[terrynever]

What Yankee fans should really be rooting for is a 1 game playoff on Thursday. The winner would have no time to rest players, relievers or to set up their rotation for the Division Series, making them an easier match-up for Texas/Detroit. You don;t have to worry about Boston or Tampa in the ALCS if they never get there.

Absolutely rooting for a 1-game playoff on Thursday. It's a no-brainer. I need a meaningful baseball game every day right now like a junkie needs a needle in his arm. Having the Rays-Red Sox playing do-or-die on Thursday would make my day. There's nothing better than watching athletes compete with their seasons on the line.

If there's no playoff, I'll have to go play golf. Or work. That sucks. Give me a sudden-death game.

p.s. -- and it would be played in The Trop. Let's have the game decided by something that caroms off a suspension wire holding the ceiling up. Also, make it a 4 p.m. game.

If it comes to this, I'm rooting for Boston to get in.

Edited by terrynever, 26 September 2011 - 03:58 PM.

[EvilEmpire]

What I take umbrage with is saying they played it conservatively. Please. Mariano Rivera came into a tie game in the 9th inning. That's not unusual of course but let's not pretend GI Joe wasn't trying and hoping to bury the Red Sox once and for all . Maybe they didn't go crazy by pinch hitting certain guys but make no mistake he was managing to win. Now they've earned the right to do what they want with Tampa but I'll be very surprised if we see the same level of urgency. And seeing the pitching rotation lends some credence to that.

I think a little more urgency in front of the home crowd isn't unusual, particularly when it is against the Red Sox. After all, it was the last regular-season home game.

[Walpole Joe's Neighbor]

I think a little more urgency in front of the home crowd isn't unusual, particularly when it is against the Red Sox. After all, it was the last regular-season home game.

Yes I agree. I have no issue with Girardi having urgency in wanting to vanquish the Red Sox. My problem was with Cromulence throwing a qualifier out there as if they could have swept the Sox if only they didn't play too conservative and hold back. That was not the case.

[jon abbey]

Yes I agree. I have no issue with Girardi having urgency in wanting to vanquish the Red Sox. My problem was with Cromulence throwing a qualifier out there as if they could have swept the Sox if only they didn't play too conservative and hold back. That was not the case.

It was and it wasn't. You're right about the relievers, but Boston used their starting lineup in both games, NY split theirs between the two games.

Edit: Of course they doesn't mean they would have won, but Girardi wasn't playing it all out is my point.

[ronlt40]

The reaction of the fans I've spoken to is generally the same: They want Boston to be humiliated and whatever match-up differences between Tampa and Boston in a potential ALCS doesn't enter the equation. Whatever hurts the Sox and their fans the most is what they want.

This. I would never root for the Yanks to lose.

[cromulence]

It was and it wasn't. You're right about the relievers, but Boston used their starting lineup in both games, NY split theirs between the two games.

Edit: Of course they doesn't mean they would have won, but Girardi wasn't playing it all out is my point.

That's what I meant. Also, letting Romine hit with the winning run on 3rd and 2 outs with plenty of potential pinch hitters comes to mind. Not really worth arguing about though.

Definitely felt weird tonight to not care if the Yankees lost. I don't wanna say root against...I didn't watch the game and didn't cheer for the Rays. I just wasn't disappointed that the Yankees lost. Still weird, though.

[Shaky]

As a Yankees fan, I can't help but want Boston to be eliminated. Too much history. I can't think about the ALCS. Even a playoff for the WC doesn't help the Yankees really.

I tell you it would be a much more interesting question if they allowed teams to play the wildcard within the division.

[Wingack]

Put me in the camp rooting for a 1 game playoff.

I don't really understand the line though that the Yankees should want the Red Sox to be in the playoffs because they have struggling to badly. Well, that won't help the Yankees any because they won't be facing them in the ALDS anyway. I would rather the other ALDS matchup not be a potential cakewalk for the winner of it.

Lastly, now I know this doesn't compare to the Yankees choke job of 2004 because that resulted in a World Series berth, and breaking the curse etc. But it would be rather nice for the Red Sox to have a recent collapse on their records so we don't have to hear it around here so much (though it has been better around here in recent years with that stuff.)

[jon abbey]

Not to start a debate (please), just stating my perspective as I've done multiple times here before on this, but I will seriously never understand why anyone refers to 2004 as a choke. Boston was decidedly better, especially after the trades, check the run differential for the season, check how Boston demolished the teams they played before and after. If anyone choked in that series, it was Boston letting the inferior team get so close to winning it. Also, I'll especially never understand Boston fans specifically referring to it as a choke, as all that does is minimize the accomplishments of your own team. It was certainly a remarkable, unprecedented comeback, but that doesn't make it a choke, IMO anyway.

The practical reason for NY fans to root for Boston to miss the playoffs this year is the hope that it may push Boaton into making some irrational moves in response.

[brs3]

Not to start a debate (please), just stating my perspective as I've done multiple times here before on this, but I will seriously never understand why anyone refers to 2004 as a choke. Boston was decidedly better, especially after the trades, check the run differential for the season, check how Boston demolished the teams they played before and after. If anyone choked in that series, it was Boston letting the inferior team get so close to winning it. Also, I'll especially never understand Boston fans specifically referring to it as a choke, as all that does is minimize the accomplishments of your own team. It was certainly a remarkable, unprecedented comeback, but that doesn't make it a choke, IMO anyway.

The practical reason for NY fans to root for Boston to miss the playoffs this year is the hope that it may push Boaton into making some irrational moves in response.

The 2004 ALCS really damaged you, didn't it?

Whether or not the Red Sox were the superior team, the Yankees had 4 chances to finish off a team, and couldn't do it, especially after an absolutely CRUSHING Game 3. It's not a debate. It's a fact; the Yankees failed to finish the job. Call it a choke or not, it's doesn't matter.

[terrynever]

Not to start a debate (please), just stating my perspective as I've done multiple times here before on this, but I will seriously never understand why anyone refers to 2004 as a choke. Boston was decidedly better, especially after the trades, check the run differential for the season, check how Boston demolished the teams they played before and after. If anyone choked in that series, it was Boston letting the inferior team get so close to winning it.

The practical reason for NY fans to root for Boston to miss the playoffs this year is the hope that it may push Boaton into making some irrational moves in response.

I hate the word choke when it comes to team sports. When you see a baseball collapse like 1964, 1978, 2004 and now 2011, the common thread is the amazing amount of bad luck through injuries, umpires' miscues, and negative momentum that turns patient athletes into players who try to do too much with one at-bat, one throw, one pitch, instead of letting the game come to them. And once that avalanche comes rolling down the hill, it's almost impossible to stop.

Looking back, the Phillies' manager panicked in 1964. The 1978 Red Sox played .500 ball for six weeks and got caught by a team that played .700 ball from August on. The 2004 Yankees were exposed for their lack of pitching depth and perhaps a lack of cohesion that comes with bringing in too many new players, some of them malcontents, at the same time. That team had some finger-pointers inside the locker room. 2011 I leave for Red Sox fans to debate on other threads.

And yes, JA, the offseason is going to be interesting in Boston. The Red Sox have finally become the Yankees in so many ways.

Edited by terrynever, 27 September 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[crow216]

Definitely not rooting for Tampa here. As I learned in 07, it's never a good omen to wish for any opponent. The best outcome is Tampa or Boston playing Detroit in my opinion. If that happens, there is a better chance of the Yankees playing a team that went to 5 games and had to gut it out with Verlander/Lester/Fister/Beckett.

(Not saying the yankees definitely make the ALCS, just answering the question)

Edited by crow216, 27 September 2011 - 11:00 AM.

[cromulence]

Not to start a debate (please), just stating my perspective as I've done multiple times here before on this, but I will seriously never understand why anyone refers to 2004 as a choke. Boston was decidedly better, especially after the trades, check the run differential for the season, check how Boston demolished the teams they played before and after. If anyone choked in that series, it was Boston letting the inferior team get so close to winning it. Also, I'll especially never understand Boston fans specifically referring to it as a choke, as all that does is minimize the accomplishments of your own team. It was certainly a remarkable, unprecedented comeback, but that doesn't make it a choke, IMO anyway.

The practical reason for NY fans to root for Boston to miss the playoffs this year is the hope that it may push Boaton into making some irrational moves in response.

I can see both sides. In some ways, it was undeniably a choke. Every single player in that lineup was ridiculously tight in Games 6 and 7 (4 and 5 were totally different - once it got back to New York, it felt like the players were terrified of blowing it). But really, I think you're mostly right; you can't expect to win when you're trotting the corpse of Kevin Brown out for Game 7 with Vazquez behind him. In a lot of ways, the two collapses are similar - bad starting pitching is the main culprit, which leads to the offense trying to do too much to come back. Mix in some bad luck (Tony Clark's double, the broken bat hit in the Tampa-Boston series a couple weeks ago) and it's a perfect storm for losing. That said, losing four in a row happens, even if it was the worst possible time. An entire month like this is pretty rare. Hey, maybe this will bring Sox and Yankee fans closer together. Even if the Sox salvage their season and get in, both fanbases now know what it's like to watch your team completely fall apart before your eyes.

[jon abbey]

The 2004 ALCS really damaged you, didn't it?

Heh, yeah, I'm crushed, good read. Actually I thought NY played over their heads overall in that series just to take it to 7, and they deserved to lose in 2003, when they were also the inferior team (thanks, Grady).

Whether or not the Red Sox were the superior team, the Yankees had 4 chances to finish off a team, and couldn't do it, especially after an absolutely CRUSHING Game 3. It's not a debate. It's a fact; the Yankees failed to finish the job. Call it a choke or not, it doesn't matter.

Sure, I'm aware what happened, but to me, the strange thing that happened that year was NY winning the first three, I never expected them to win that series. I think it's hilarious that NY gets much more flak in retrospect than they would have if they'd been swept or lost in 5 or alternated wins and losses to the same result.

[terrynever]

I can see both sides. In some ways, it was undeniably a choke. Every single player in that lineup was ridiculously tight in Games 6 and 7 (4 and 5 were totally different - once it got back to New York, it felt like the players were terrified of blowing it). But really, I think you're mostly right; you can't expect to win when you're trotting the corpse of Kevin Brown out for Game 7 with Vazquez behind him. In a lot of ways, the two collapses are similar - bad starting pitching is the main culprit, which leads to the offense trying to do too much to come back. Mix in some bad luck (Tony Clark's double, the broken bat hit in the Tampa-Boston series a couple weeks ago) and it's a perfect storm for losing. That said, losing four in a row happens, even if it was the worst possible time. An entire month like this is pretty rare. Hey, maybe this will bring Sox and Yankee fans closer together. Even if the Sox salvage their season and get in, both fanbases now know what it's like to watch your team completely fall apart before your eyes.

Good post.

[priestvalon]

I understand that a lot of Sox fans think that every Yankee fan should rue 2004 as the worst happening to any team, ever, but for me, I just don't. They lost a series 3 games to 4. They didn't get swept out of the playoffs, and gave it a go. I don't believe that a team I support is less enjoyable, due to others success. That's not to say that I don't enjoy a little schadenfreude, now and then, but ultimately you have to root for someone rather than against someone else. Yankee fans have been, are, and will be lucky. I think that you can't ever look too far forward; any team fan should want to see, first a >.500 regular season, then a division win, then preferably home team advantage, then take the playoffs one game at a time.

Job one is always going to be making the playoffs and Yanks have.

As for these next few games, no... don't root for home team failure, but that doesn't mean you can't rest regulars, especially if Boston aren't going to field 'team A'. Hell... Colon looked gassed. I'd be open to a rookie getting a start here.

[Shaky]

Hell... Colon looked gassed. I'd be open to a rookie getting a start here.

I don't think he going to pitch more than a few innings no matter what.

Girardi will probably throw a rookie in between Colon and Soriano.

[crow216]

I understand that a lot of Sox fans think that every Yankee fan should rue 2004 as the worst happening to any team, ever, but for me, I just don't. They lost a series 3 games to 4. They didn't get swept out of the playoffs, and gave it a go. I don't believe that a team I support is less enjoyable, due to others success. That's not to say that I don't enjoy a little schadenfreude, now and then, but ultimately you have to root for someone rather than against someone else. Yankee fans have been, are, and will be lucky. I think that you can't ever look too far forward; any team fan should want to see, first a >.500 regular season, then a division win, then preferably home team advantage, then take the playoffs one game at a time.

Job one is always going to be making the playoffs and Yanks have.

As for these next few games, no... don't root for home team failure, but that doesn't mean you can't rest regulars, especially if Boston aren't going to field 'team A'. Hell... Colon looked gassed. I'd be open to a rookie getting a start here.

Well, no Sox fan has ever believed me but 2001 was much worse than 2004. 2004 was all up then all down. 2001 was an incredibly emotional series with more highs and lows than I've ever experienced. To this date, it's my favorite world series.

[geoduck no quahog]

Obviously not a Yankee fan, but - there's great incentive for a Yankee fan to want the Red Sox humiliated.

As for Girardi? I guarantee he couldn't give a shit because the last thing he worries about is Rays or Sox beating the Tigers (particularly) or Texas. All he cares about is setting up his team for the first series. If that means laying down against Tampa (Bay) - then what do you expect him to do? You think he cares about the competing series?

So (1) Yankee fanboys must certainly be rooting for the Rays to sweep, and (2) Yankee fans must certainly be rooting for their team to enter the post season rested and fine-tuned, without giving a shit for anything except the first round opponent.

[Brickowski]

Obviously not a Yankee fan, but - there's great incentive for a Yankee fan to want the Red Sox humiliated.

Why? IMHO the alleged hatred of the Sox by the Yankee fanbase is largely an artifact of ESPN and the rest of the sports press. It's good for business. And as others have insightfully pointed out, the best result for NY would have been to force a playoff between the Sox and TB, not the outright elimination that occurred. I like the Yankees, but I take no more pleasure in watching the Red Sox lose than I take in watching any other Yankee opponent lose.

I do take some pleasure in the humiliation of the parochial Boston (and ESPN) pundits who annointed the Sox as a 100-win team back in February.

[jon abbey]

All sorts of wrong in that post, but I'm locking this thread too.