1576 replies to this topic

[teddykgb]

I'm such a sucker for players like Torres who actually show an ability to dribble and run with the ball. I can acknowledge that he makes mistakes and hasn't had a great half or anything, but my god does it feel like he brings something special to the team nobody else even approaches

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Yeah the US left is getting killed and it was interesting that when Bradley finally moved up, the US was looking much better in possession near the end of the half.

Get Beckerman out of there.


I want to see Brek Shea out there, maybe for Torres if he doesn't do something soon.

[koufax32]

Sigh

Lalas is talking about wanting to see a more Latin style from the USMNT. Perhaps a German style would be better so our boys would know how to create better passing lanes/angles?? But where, Alexi, would we find someone to coach this German style??
Poor Jurgen. He is already developing that "holy crap I have my work cut out for me" look in his eyes.

[Ahriman]

Why is John Harkes still calling games for ESPN? By far, he has the worst cadence of anyone. Ever.

The sound of his voice makes me car sick.

[Titans Bastard]

Agudelo has been on for one minute and already has accomplished more than Edson Buddle.

[allaboutthesox]

I'm such a sucker for players like Torres who actually show an ability to dribble and run with the ball. I can acknowledge that he makes mistakes and hasn't had a great half or anything, but my god does it feel like he brings something special to the team nobody else even approaches

Torres is a player who has to be played in the right position to get better results. He should be where Klinsmann is playing Bradley right now. I am a big fan of Torres and Adu as I think they are the type of players who think as fast as they can play with the ball on their feet.

Beckerman needs to go and I hope he is not the "Bornstein" of Klinsmann era.

[teddykgb]

Beckerman just looks off the pace of this game, spacing also really quite bad in the midfield, but that's probably what happens when you bring some new players into the squad

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Nice assist Brek Shea and good subs Klinsmann.

[ifmanis5]

US playing some quality football here.

[teddykgb]

Shea has been really good in his limited time, Agudelo really involved... all good stuff a nice goal and nearly another from Torres

[tims4wins]

Believe in Jurgen!

[DLew On Roids]

Last week I asked the BBC's World Football Phone-In, "Who didn't play under Bradley who'll get a chance under Klinsmann?" Sean Wheelock suggested Robbie Rogers. Good call.

[teddykgb]

i can see how the ref missed that pen, but that is definitely a penalty

[ifmanis5]

Should have been a PK for Landy.

[McBride11]

Shea and Agudelo fantastic subs. It appears Landy got moved into Bradley's spot and Rogers is on the wing now. With Landy and Torres combining nicely in the middle. As previously said, getting our talented players (Torres) on the ball makes a huge difference.

If only Agudelo is crashing the net on the Shea shot...

[ifmanis5]

Ref is pissing me off now.

[tims4wins]

How is that not a red?!?!?!?

[ElUno20]

How the fuck isn't that a red

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Jesus, WTF ref? Clear red.

[Titans Bastard]

Outrageous -- that was an OBVIOUS red.

[McBride11]

No Red? No PK before? Did McClelland make it to Philly overnight?

[teddykgb]

Really shocking lack of call there.... i can't say i understand it at all, that's an undeniable red card and the red card isn't even justice for that kind of infraction.

Agudelo has been a man possessed

[Infield Infidel]

yeah terrible officiating tonight.

I was perplexed by Buddle being in there. Go with the youngsters!

[tims4wins]

Ricardo Clark, you will always suck

[DLew On Roids]

Was Jack Warner reffing the match?

[ifmanis5]

Welp, 2nd half they looked sharp.

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Really liked moving Torres to the middle when Shea came on. Shea of course impressed out on the left and had some great runs.

Agudelo was a revelation coming in for Buddle.


The young guys on D did well, too.

[koufax32]

Really liked moving Torres to the middle when Shea came on. Shea of course impressed out on the left and had some great runs.

Agudelo was a revelation coming in for Buddle.


The young guys on D did well, too.

Shea played very well. I was surprised by his play. His passes and runs were right decisions with proper timing.
Agudelo is still just a kid. I need to remind myself of that when he's in the box trying to dribble into the goal. Stuff happens with him up front though.

I even saw some German football a few times in the attacking third. It was refreshing to see a few weak side players make diagonal runs to the ball side. It's almost like it works.

[allaboutthesox]

yeah terrible officiating tonight.

I was perplexed by Buddle being in there. Go with the youngsters!

Agree completely with this statement. The team seemed to play much better with some of the younger players in there. Just as some of us mentioned in this thread, Torres is much better in the middle of the field rather than out wide. I really like the fact that Agudelo is very active on and off the ball. He likes to take people on and I think that is refreshing to see. Even though it doesn't always produce results, but he is still 18 and will learn more and get better.

Ricardo Clark, you will always suck

At this point right now, he doesn't have a real spot on this team. Especially with Edu, Jones, and Bradley. Bradley should no longer be considered a CAM as he plays better when he sags back and can read the field a bit more. I thought Ramos (Spanish Commentator) was spot on about his assessment about Bradley when he mentioned as much about Bradley.

All in all, the US played well enough in the second half to get a tie and should have gotten a win with the two PK's that should have been called. A good first result versus Mexico and I look forward to next months game.

On a side note, anyone know why Adu didn't dress for this game? Surely, he would have been a better choice than some that were chosen for the game roster.

Edited by allaboutthesox, 10 August 2011 - 10:28 PM.

[EP Sox Fan]

Sorry, I'm still bewildered by the sight of in-game tactical adjustments.

Really liked the energy that Agadelo and Shea and to a lesser extent Rodgers brought to the table. Torres had a good game when he moved to the middle. The back line was a bit of a mess but the result was obviously decent. Nice start for Klinsmann and enjoyed his obvious energy and enthusiasm. Real contrast from Bradley.

[Titans Bastard]

Shea played very well. I was surprised by his play. His passes and runs were right decisions with proper timing.
Agudelo is still just a kid. I need to remind myself of that when he's in the box trying to dribble into the goal. Stuff happens with him up front though.

I even saw some German football a few times in the attacking third. It was refreshing to see a few weak side players make diagonal runs to the ball side. It's almost like it works.

Shea's decision-making still needs work, but he looked much, much better than he did in his first two appearances. Normally, "player X's decision-making still needs work" is kind of a damning statement in the "Pitcher X just needs to cut 1.5 BB/9 and he'd be awesome!!" kind of way -- easier said than done and often doesn't happen. However, Shea has been getting a lot better at the club level. That's what good players do: they make rapid and noticeable progress.

Sorry, I'm still bewildered by the sight of in-game tactical adjustments.

Really liked the energy that Agadelo and Shea and to a lesser extent Rodgers brought to the table. Torres had a good game when he moved to the middle. The back line was a bit of a mess but the result was obviously decent. Nice start for Klinsmann and enjoyed his obvious energy and enthusiasm. Real contrast from Bradley.

Actually, I thought this performance was rather Bradley-esque in a certain way. The starting lineup was clearly flawed and the team started poorly. Then a few subs were made, all of a sudden the team started playing well and the team came back and closed strongly.

[Titans Bastard]

At this point right now, he doesn't have a real spot on this team. Especially with Edu, Jones, and Bradley. Bradley should no longer be considered a CAM as he plays better when he sags back and can read the field a bit more. I thought Ramos (Spanish Commentator) was spot on about his assessment about Bradley when he mentioned as much about Bradley.

Yes, Bradley as CAM was doomed to fail. He scored a lot of goals at 'veen, but that was a result of runs into the box from deep. He doesn't have the flair or the vision that's required of a CAM. Furthermore, his instincts are to play deeper because that's where he's comfortable, so you wind up with a player who won't give a sole forward proper support. (especially when said sole forward is Edson freakin' Buddle).

On a side note, anyone know why Adu didn't dress for this game? Surely, he would have been a better choice than some that were chosen for the game roster.

Klinsmann seemed to be unhappy with Adu's fitness. When you aren't in Benfica's plans, they treat you like dirt, so Adu has been working out on his own. Solo training never seems to work out well with Freddy.

[allaboutthesox]

Yes, Bradley as CAM was doomed to fail. He scored a lot of goals at 'veen, but that was a result of runs into the box from deep. He doesn't have the flair or the vision that's required of a CAM. Furthermore, his instincts are to play deeper because that's where he's comfortable, so you wind up with a player who won't give a sole forward proper support. (especially when said sole forward is Edson freakin' Buddle).



Klinsmann seemed to be unhappy with Adu's fitness. When you aren't in Benfica's plans, they treat you like dirt, so Adu has been working out on his own. Solo training never seems to work out well with Freddy.

Thanks for the update on Adu and this should light a fire under him to find a team and get to playing or he will be a lost man on the USMNT radar. It sucks that he wasn't fit enough to make the game day roster. Especially when one considers how well he played in the Gold Cup not to long ago.

[Titans Bastard]

Thanks for the update on Adu and this should light a fire under him to find a team and get to playing or he will be a lost man on the USMNT radar. It sucks that he wasn't fit enough to make the game day roster. Especially when one considers how well he played in the Gold Cup not to long ago.

There are strong rumors that he will sign with Chivas USA as soon as the end of this week. We'll see.

As soon as his Benfica contract is torn up/expired, the better. He's just not going to find many good opportunities on Benfica wages. The only clubs that can afford him are above his level at the moment. It's killing him.

[Harry Hooper]

Ricardo Clark, you will always suck

Hard to argue with that.


Pleasantly surprised by the play of the U.S. in the last 55 minutes.

[EP Sox Fan]

Actually, I thought this performance was rather Bradley-esque in a certain way. The starting lineup was clearly flawed and the team started poorly. Then a few subs were made, all of a sudden the team started playing well and the team came back and closed strongly.

I agree that the starting lineup was flawed and were dominated in long stretches of the first half. IMO, it was more of an observation period, in the "let me see for myself what some of these guys have" mode. He saw and he said, no thanks. Bringing Shea in on the left and moving Torres in the middle, taking out a largely ineffective Buddle for Agudelo and putting Rodgers brought instant energy into the attack. A big reason was simply their movement off the ball. On the US goal, Aguadelo made a nice run down the line and fed the ball back to Shea who made a nice diagonal run into the box who fed it across the goal to Rodgers who made a back post run and was there to clean it up. It was a nice buildup for an easy goal.

The US team looked slow, passive, lethargic while getting passed to death in the first half. There was a lot more movement and energy in the second which helped maintain possession and made them far more dangerous in the attack. I think the real interesting thing to see will be who he picks for the next game against Costa Rica. Running out the same flawed lineup would be Bradleyesque. I am encouraged by his interview after the game that he's committed to going forward with younger players who he can work on developing . I think we're going to see a lot more of guys like Torres, Rodgers, Shea and Agudelo (and hopefully a lot of the younger kids that you have been kind enough to fill all of us in on in the Yanks Abroad and USMNT threads) and a lot less of retreads who have trouble impressing at the international level (Buddle, Clark, Bornstein).

[javaisfun]

I'm biased, of course, but I spent much of the game watching Beckerman, and I thought he played well. It doesn't really make sense to have him there when you also have Jones and Bradley playing that role. Once those guys came off for more attacking players, his role worked with the team, and he played better. I don't think he's a WC starter or anything unless he makes a Holden-esque jump, but he can help the team.

[Snakebauer007]

I agree that the starting lineup was flawed and were dominated in long stretches of the first half. IMO, it was more of an observation period, in the "let me see for myself what some of these guys have" mode. He saw and he said, no thanks. Bringing Shea in on the left and moving Torres in the middle, taking out a largely ineffective Buddle for Agudelo and putting Rodgers brought instant energy into the attack. A big reason was simply their movement off the ball. On the US goal, Aguadelo made a nice run down the line and fed the ball back to Shea who made a nice diagonal run into the box who fed it across the goal to Rodgers who made a back post run and was there to clean it up. It was a nice buildup for an easy goal.

The US team looked slow, passive, lethargic while getting passed to death in the first half. There was a lot more movement and energy in the second which helped maintain possession and made them far more dangerous in the attack. I think the real interesting thing to see will be who he picks for the next game against Costa Rica. Running out the same flawed lineup would be Bradleyesque. I am encouraged by his interview after the game that he's committed to going forward with younger players who he can work on developing . I think we're going to see a lot more of guys like Torres, Rodgers, Shea and Agudelo (and hopefully a lot of the younger kids that you have been kind enough to fill all of us in on in the Yanks Abroad and USMNT threads) and a lot less of retreads who have trouble impressing at the international level (Buddle, Clark, Bornstein).

I think he should get more than one game bbefore we start critiquing who he picks in his next lineup.

I also think Robbie Rogers still sucks, but I will be happy if he proves me wrong

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wonder how Bradley would have done at the tip of the midfield with a fast, attack-minded player like Shea on the left instead of JFT, who has some nice skills and ability but clearly isn't comfortable carrying the attacking load he needed to carry. While Bradley's not a conventional attacking midfielder, a lot of his best attributes seem like they would fit nicely if he had been out there with, say, Agudelo, Shea, and Donovan.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I also think Robbie Rogers still sucks, but I will be happy if he proves me wrong

Thank you. He played with energy and was in the right place for an easy goal but he has been terrible almost every time I see him. Not a player I want to see a ton of going forward. I dunno, maybe he can work as a sub in very specific situations but to me he usually looks overmatched.

Watched the game with my dad and we could only laugh when Clark came in. Hope it's the last time but the guy never dies.

Nonetheless, good show in the 2nd half, glad to see some exciting play after the first 45 weren't exactly awe-insipiring.

[Snakebauer007]

I wonder how Bradley would have done at the tip of the midfield with a fast, attack-minded player like Shea on the left instead of JFT, who has some nice skills and ability but clearly isn't comfortable carrying the attacking load he needed to carry. While Bradley's not a conventional attacking midfielder, a lot of his best attributes seem like they would fit nicely if he had been out there with, say, Agudelo, Shea, and Donovan.

I think it's a terrible position for him regardless of the lineup. Torres, Donovan, Dempsey, Holden, Adu, Feilhaber anyone but Bradley, well technically it would be anyone but Beckerman as you would have Bradley and Jones or Edu in the holding spots.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think it's a terrible position for him regardless of the lineup.

What don't you like about him there?

What I don't like: He's OK with the ball at his feet, but not really comfortable taking players on. It's a good skill to have as an attacking midfielder, because you won't always get the ball with enough space to avoid having to beat someone.

What I do like: He's pretty good at playing on the break and making through passes. He's got a wicked shot from distance and is also very good as a late runner into the box. His outside shot could keep teams from sagging off of him to play the pass, which his lack of dribbling threat would otherwise enable. I think his game would fit very well with the kind of aggressive running that Shea, Agudelo, Donovan, and Rogers were doing later against Mexico.

I don't know that Bradley would play the position effectively, but I think Buddle and Torres were not the guys to put him with. Torres was playing too deep, leaving Donovan, Bradley, and Buddle to carry the attack. Consequently, Buddle was ineffective, because he was playing as a target forward without effective runners behind him.

[EP Sox Fan]

What don't you like about him there?

What I don't like: He's OK with the ball at his feet, but not really comfortable taking players on. It's a good skill to have as an attacking midfielder, because you won't always get the ball with enough space to avoid having to beat someone.

What I do like: He's pretty good at playing on the break and making through passes. He's got a wicked shot from distance and is also very good as a late runner into the box. His outside shot could keep teams from sagging off of him to play the pass, which his lack of dribbling threat would otherwise enable. I think his game would fit very well with the kind of aggressive running that Shea, Agudelo, Donovan, and Rogers were doing later against Mexico.

I don't know that Bradley would play the position effectively, but I think Buddle and Torres were not the guys to put him with. Torres was playing too deep, leaving Donovan, Bradley, and Buddle to carry the attack. Consequently, Buddle was ineffective, because he was playing as a target forward without effective runners behind him.

I think Torres was playing out of position on the left. He looked far more comfortable in the middle of the field in an CAM role. Buddle certainly cannot carry an attack as a lone striker. IMO, Bradley's best role would be in a holding midfield / defensive midfield role who could occasionally come forward. To me, he's not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn't seem to have the kind of vision and/or creativity needed to consistently distribute the ball from a CAM position. He has a pretty good work rate, can tackle pretty well and would be decedent enough distributing the ball out of the back instead of banging it up the field. Torres and Holden are two players who would be better fits in the CAM role. Let Donovan play a withdrawn striker role so he can have some room to freelance a bit.

[Titans Bastard]

I think Torres was playing out of position on the left. He looked far more comfortable in the middle of the field in an CAM role. Buddle certainly cannot carry an attack as a lone striker. IMO, Bradley's best role would be in a holding midfield / defensive midfield role who could occasionally come forward. To me, he's not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn't seem to have the kind of vision and/or creativity needed to consistently distribute the ball from a CAM position. He has a pretty good work rate, can tackle pretty well and would be decedent enough distributing the ball out of the back instead of banging it up the field. Torres and Holden are two players who would be better fits in the CAM role. Let Donovan play a withdrawn striker role so he can have some room to freelance a bit.

Agree 100%. CAM isn't Holden's best position, but I think he can pull it off. Bradley is not well-suited to the position at all. Not only does he lack the vision/flair/creativity, he's uncomfortable doing it and so he tends to drift deep, which ruins our attack and isolates our forward.

[accidentalsuccess]

I also couldn't freaking believe it when Clark walked on the field. ??!????? He must be a monster in practice or something.

I actually really liked Bradley at CAM. I think he could play his way into a very, very good one with his vision and long-range shooting ability. However, that's based on a system where Donovan and Shea(?) or whoever is on the wings are running verticals or diagonals with the "CAM" being the late runner into the box, which is precisely what the situation was on the goal. It'll take time for him to get used to it and he may never get that if he isn't playing that role on his club. In the end I imagine he'll just as likely end up as defensive mid. We all know that barring a miracle or disaster Beckerman is not going to be seeing tons of time for the USMNT.

The alignment is my favorite system to play, personally, so it was fun to watch the USA give it a go. I'm sure we'll see lots of tinkering over the coming year and I'm actually really excited about watching the kids develop. I'm still holding hope that Adu figures "it" all out. Agudelo is just a joy to watch and a QUICK study so far.

I am a huge fan of Holden if people stop breaking his legs. What rotten luck.

I'm also a fan of ANYONE but Donovan taking set pieces. I'm sick of every other corner (at BEST) being off the mark. If Donovan's so great on them then the set piece plays suck. Something needs to change there.

[soxfan121]

Given 10 days on the job and a reduced roster, a 1-1 tie with Mexico is verye encouraging. A couple uninformed, dumb observations:

1. Beckerman was bad. But I think the idea was to play 3 guys in a rotating triangle in the center of the pitch - both to chase & regain possession and protect a suspect back line. 4-3-3, with the three in middle being encouraged to press and get involved late but to keep 2 of the 3 behind the ball at all times. It fits the available personnel very well and it would have looked 1000% better if it's Bradley-Jones-Edu rotating the triangle instead of Bradley-Beckerman-Jones. It seemed like Jones and Bradley were trying to implement that but Beckerman was in over his head. Edu's late injury situation kept us from seeing the new "base".

2. To successfully play this way, Dempsey/Donovan are the outside components of the 3 up front and the left & right backs take on added importance. I can't believe that Klinsmann hasn't had a chat with Chandler and gotten a firm commitment, which "solves" the right side issue (assuming a lot, but it's the best hope we have). Castillo didn't really impress me but I can see why he might get a lot of rope to hang himself with if Lichaj is unable to seize the job.

3. The center back issue is a huge problem. I don't think Boca or Cherundulo should be seeing important minutes in WC qualifying, let alone 2014 WC action. They look SLOW. Ream not dressing is worrisome, sort of. I can see if he had a slight knock or if Klinsmann wanted to see Orozco's crazy up close.

4. If Jonathan Bornstein and Ricardo Clark were both drowning in a lake and you could save only one of them, which do you save?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think Torres was playing out of position on the left. He looked far more comfortable in the middle of the field in an CAM role.

The latter seems to be the universal opinion, but I wonder about it. The stats say Torres had very little impact on the game in the center of the park. He had something like three pass attempts in the center and center-right, and almost all of his center-left action was in the first half or early in the second half before the subs were made. I think we can all agree that his play as a wide attacking midfielder wasn't up to par, but I don't think he was as influential in the center as he should have been either.

I'm also a fan of ANYONE but Donovan taking set pieces. I'm sick of every other corner (at BEST) being off the mark. If Donovan's so great on them then the set piece plays suck. Something needs to change there.

Donovan's excellent at set pieces. He was in the top tier at the past World Cup, and he took a significant share of them at Everton during his brief loan spell there. I think the average non-Donovan performance on corner kicks is considerably worse than you realize.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I can't believe that Klinsmann hasn't had a chat with Chandler and gotten a firm commitment,

Would a reported agreement that he'll be available to play the next two friendlies count as having a chat and getting a firm commitment?

[accidentalsuccess]

Donovan's excellent at set pieces. He was in the top tier at the past World Cup, and he took a significant share of them at Everton during his brief loan spell there. I think the average non-Donovan performance on corner kicks is considerably worse than you realize.

I just don't agree. Donovan's corners are far to often punched free or snagged for my liking. Sure you have to play a dangerous ball, but if the keeper can play it there is virtually no chance for any player to do anything with it. If he's so accurate then he should pull back a yard or so.

I found Adu's free kicks in the Gold cup game (where Donovan was traveling back from the wedding until the wee hours) to be preferable in placement. Plus there was a goal (header) off a free kick in another game recently (at the time I thought Agudelo took it but I am pretty sure that's not right). The Boca header was notable because it's one of the few in recent memory (including the WC) where a guy got good chance off a well-played ball. I don't think the blame rests only on the attackers for the above reasons.

I also don't buy the idea that corners are so hard to take that only Landy can manage it. From high school on up virtually any team in the world has at least three guys that can place the ball where it belongs regularly with the proper pace. The problem is that it's hard to do when out of breath, and maybe this relates to Donovan's very high work rate. If so, let's keep the the work rate and have somebody else take them.

Finally, the best reason is that he's one of our best talents and has amazing touch. Why on earth wouldn't you want him in the box on a set piece rather than serving up a ball? Is he secretly awful in the air or something (and he might be since he hasn't been in the box on a set piece in about a decade....).

[Snakebauer007]

I just don't agree. Donovan's corners are far to often punched free or snagged for my liking. Sure you have to play a dangerous ball, but if the keeper can play it there is virtually no chance for any player to do anything with it. If he's so accurate then he should pull back a yard or so.

I found Adu's free kicks in the Gold cup game (where Donovan was traveling back from the wedding until the wee hours) to be preferable in placement. Plus there was a goal (header) off a free kick in another game recently (at the time I thought Agudelo took it but I am pretty sure that's not right). The Boca header was notable because it's one of the few in recent memory (including the WC) where a guy got good chance off a well-played ball. I don't think the blame rests only on the attackers for the above reasons.

I also don't buy the idea that corners are so hard to take that only Landy can manage it. From high school on up virtually any team in the world has at least three guys that can place the ball where it belongs regularly with the proper pace. The problem is that it's hard to do when out of breath, and maybe this relates to Donovan's very high work rate. If so, let's keep the the work rate and have somebody else take them.

Finally, the best reason is that he's one of our best talents and has amazing touch. Why on earth wouldn't you want him in the box on a set piece rather than serving up a ball? Is he secretly awful in the air or something (and he might be since he hasn't been in the box on a set piece in about a decade....).

Chelsea, one of the top clubs in the world, has only one guy who accurately places corners where they need to be.

Also, Donovan in the box? What's he gonna do in there? Is he being marked by a midget?