303 replies to this topic

[brs3]

Google is working on a social network called Google+, which basically allows you to create groups of people easier(allegedly) than FB currently does. In addition to that, it seems they're utilizing the Gchat aspect a bit better.

Here's the demo. Has anyone been invited or seen it in beta action yet?

There was a report that FB is losing some steam in the U.S. and Canada, and they're attributing it to privacy issues. My uneducated guess would suggest that it's actually due to social network fatigue. Since everybody and their mother is on FB, it's wearing on people. Maybe Google+ is an answer to that? You can friend everybody and their mother, and separate what the moms see.

[uncannymanny]

Facebook has been gaining users hand over fist since inception. Everything I've read sad the numbers are growing. Google will fuck this up like most of their apps. Blip on the radar.

[brs3]

Facebook has been gaining users hand over fist since inception. Everything I've read sad the numbers are growing. Google will fuck this up like most of their apps. Blip on the radar.

I don't think whatever Google+ has to offer will take hold overnight. Sort of like Facebook didn't take hold immediately from MySpace. Facebook was an alternative to students, and then to everybody. However, I do think, if the project considers what people gripe about with regard to FB, it could become an eventual option to consider. Google Buzz and Google Wave are/were blips. Maybe this will be too, but based on the demo I saw, it looks like it could a viable option. Does Facebook currently allow you to create a virtual chatroom between multiple friends on your phone? That alone seems like a great tool for people who make plans on a Friday night.

[Scoops Bolling]

Google is working on a social network called Google+, which basically allows you to create groups of people easier(allegedly) than FB currently does. In addition to that, it seems they're utilizing the Gchat aspect a bit better.

Here's the demo. Has anyone been invited or seen it in beta action yet?

There was a report that FB is losing some steam in the U.S. and Canada, and they're attributing it to privacy issues. My uneducated guess would suggest that it's actually due to social network fatigue. Since everybody and their mother is on FB, it's wearing on people. Maybe Google+ is an answer to that? You can friend everybody and their mother, and separate what the moms see.

I believe the statistic was that FB lost 6 million users in May. Less surprisingly, MySpace reportedly lost over 10 million users in the first couple months of this year. That said, Facebook has proven to be more flexible and innovative than MySpace ever was, so whatever Google+ does, I'm sure FB will mimic within a few months.

[AlNipper49]

I hope it's good because it solves a problem for me --- I basically use Facebook as a way to not have to send kid pics to 40 family members, but I'm sure my other few hundred friends don't need to see pictures of my kid, or really want to.

But when google makes their first good app it'll be nice. Their stuff fucking sucks. Folks like gmail but whatever.

[Infield Infidel]

Well, Google Translate is pretty freaking great.

As far as grouping friends, it isn't really difficult on FB, but it could always be easier. The difficult part is utilizing the grouping after it's made. FB always changing stuff (and having presets default to "on") doesn't help either.

If Google+ can capitalize on that, it could be interesting.

Edited by Infield Infidel, 29 June 2011 - 01:24 AM.

[jercra]

I hope it's good because it solves a problem for me --- I basically use Facebook as a way to not have to send kid pics to 40 family members, but I'm sure my other few hundred friends don't need to see pictures of my kid, or really want to.

But when google makes their first good app it'll be nice. Their stuff fucking sucks. Folks like gmail but whatever.

Really? Maps, Docs, Gmail, Voice and Chrome all fucking suck? Anyway, I think, and hope, this one's going to be a bit different. It's not Google's normally stark UI. They brought in some Apple weight and gave him enough control to make the UI decidedly un-Google like. I love the idea of Circles and even hope they allow an invite only circle that doesn't require an account, just an invite for setting up events (thinking of a golf tournament I set up annually).

Edited by jercra, 29 June 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[SumnerH]

Really? Maps, Docs, Gmail, Voice and Chrome all fucking suck?

And search. And translate. Skymap. Earth. Google Transit blows the doors off the crappy local Metro site, even if all you're doing is along the metro. reCAPTCHA is quite clever.

They have their Waves and Orkuts, but the majority of Google apps are pretty good.

[uncannymanny]

I don't think whatever Google+ has to offer will take hold overnight. Sort of like Facebook didn't take hold immediately from MySpace. Facebook was an alternative to students, and then to everybody. However, I do think, if the project considers what people gripe about with regard to FB, it could become an eventual option to consider. Google Buzz and Google Wave are/were blips. Maybe this will be too, but based on the demo I saw, it looks like it could a viable option. Does Facebook currently allow you to create a virtual chatroom between multiple friends on your phone? That alone seems like a great tool for people who make plans on a Friday night.

I looked at the site for it. It looks ok...Circles is really the only thing that seems interesting to me, although fb already has a lot of this functionality and will certainly roll out something similar with the advantage of already having a half billion users to Google's 0. I just don't see it catching on. As someone noted, fb is very willing to adapt and change(but if you do facebook development it's unbelievably annoying), unlike myspace. Myspace and Friendster and Make Out Club all failed because they were what they were and that was it. fb has also taken a page from Apple/Google and built a very robust application development system that allows companies and individuals to reach an unreal amount of people with whatever content they want. It's the same concept as the App stores. Users aren't given the same experience and there's a lot more for them to do and get into than the others ever had.

Yes, Maps and Gmail are good. Earth is very cool, albeit not all that useful for the everyday person. Docs is an absolute disaster. I have to deal with these things all the time for project tracking and I can't stand it. I've heard Voice is cool, but I have a phone. With unlimited minutes. Don't see the need this fills that Skype already doesn't (although MS snapping them up will be interesting). But most of these technologies were simply purchased from smaller companies, rebranded and resold. Most of the stuff they have made from the ground up lives in Labs, which is where I hope this will end up. People citing fb privacy issues in support of this are really going to side with Google as someone who is going to keep your privacy? Get real. This whole service is meant to mine more data and habits for them to sell. I don't want any part of it.

Edited by uncannymanny, 29 June 2011 - 06:15 AM.

[czar]

[bsj]

Google is repeating its mistakes of the past.

Just OPEN the damn thing. Invitation based social networks are problematic. You cant find anyone else you know because they havent been invited in.

[zenter]

Google is repeating its mistakes of the past.

Just OPEN the damn thing. Invitation based social networks are problematic. You cant find anyone else you know because they havent been invited in.

Yes. Gmail and Facebook and Google Music really suffered for having closed systems with invites and/or exclusivity.

[JerBear]

I'm in the beta, I'll answer any questions people have.

The interface is slick, the circles are neat but won't that interesting until more people are using it. Currently the only people I know using out would ask be in the same circle and I don't want to spam email everyone else. It does make making lists a lot easier.

[Foulkey Reese]

Yes. Gmail and Facebook and Google Music really suffered for having closed systems with invites and/or exclusivity.

Gmail invites were going for $50 on ebay at the time.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 29 June 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[PortlandSoxFan]

I'm not in the beta yet, but I did notice a couple of other Google changes the past couple of days...the shortcut bar that is across the top of Gmail now appears to be on top of all Google sites, and I like it.

The mobile Google page (on Android at least) kicks ass now..

Some new 'People' widget just got added to Gmail, and it is all kinds of awesome. Makes it so much easier to send a new email to a group that is in an existing chain, or to send messages to certain people within the chain (or start a group chat, or create a group appointment). Or dial down to someone within the group and quickly call/sms/email them. Pretty great, IMHO.

I'd love for + to take off because frankly, I grow weary of Facebook. I wanted to like Buzz and Wave, but I just never saw the use for it. I can see + being an alternative to FB, or Beluga (which several of us use extensively), Foursquare, etc.

[zenter]

Gmail invited were going for $50 on ebay at the time.

Exactly. If it's good enough, people will want it. See: Search, Gmail, Docs, News, Android, Analytics, etc, etc. The problem with their failures - things like Wave, Buzz, etc, - is that they didn't solve any problems. They simply introduced new solutions. Here we have a slightly different situation: A social network with frustrating privacy controls and difficult management of different groups of friends/family is a current problem. Google is advertising these as solved by their social network, with full integration with all their other services. The devil is in the details/execution, but it's at least addressing something worth addressing.

[AlNipper49]

I looked at the site for it. It looks ok...Circles is really the only thing that seems interesting to me, although fb already has a lot of this functionality and will certainly roll out something similar with the advantage of already having a half billion users to Google's 0. I just don't see it catching on. As someone noted, fb is very willing to adapt and change(but if you do facebook development it's unbelievably annoying), unlike myspace. Myspace and Friendster and Make Out Club all failed because they were what they were and that was it. fb has also taken a page from Apple/Google and built a very robust application development system that allows companies and individuals to reach an unreal amount of people with whatever content they want. It's the same concept as the App stores. Users aren't given the same experience and there's a lot more for them to do and get into than the others ever had.

Yes, Maps and Gmail are good. Earth is very cool, albeit not all that useful for the everyday person. Docs is an absolute disaster. I have to deal with these things all the time for project tracking and I can't stand it. I've heard Voice is cool, but I have a phone. With unlimited minutes. Don't see the need this fills that Skype already doesn't (although MS snapping them up will be interesting). But most of these technologies were simply purchased from smaller companies, rebranded and resold. Most of the stuff they have made from the ground up lives in Labs, which is where I hope this will end up. People citing fb privacy issues in support of this are really going to side with Google as someone who is going to keep your privacy? Get real. This whole service is meant to mine more data and habits for them to sell. I don't want any part of it.

google voice was developed by Grandcentral and was better with them. The interface now is clunky, but I love the functionality - they havent screwed that up yet

I don't use it for phone, I use it for one phone number to reach me anywhere.

[PortlandSoxFan]

I finally 'turned off' my cell number that I've had since 1996 and force people to use my GV number. I found an app that automatically replies to txt messeages, so if someone sends it to my old number they get an autoresponse with the new number. When I upgrade this summer, I might just switch my number and not give out the new one so people HAVE to use my GV number.

We also ported our landline number to GV and use it in conjunction with Ooma. It's freaking awesome.

[bsj]

Yes. Gmail and Facebook and Google Music really suffered for having closed systems with invites and/or exclusivity.

Google Wave sure did...

And I think it may be a wee bit early to group Google Music in with Gmail and Facebook, no?

If the product is good enough, then it will sell...but I really think they are doing themselves a disservice by not opening it up more.

Edited by bsj, 29 June 2011 - 01:53 PM.

[Jimy Hendrix]

If the product is good enough, then it will sell...but I really think they are doing themselves a disservice by not opening it up more.

I think it's a reaction to the sloppy, poorly received Buzz rollout where they just crammed it into everybody's gmail accounts. They're making a more conservative play this time around since that pissed so many people off.

[Max Power]

Google Wave sure did...

And I think it may be a wee bit early to group Google Music in with Gmail and Facebook, no?

If the product is good enough, then it will sell...but I really think they are doing themselves a disservice by not opening it up more.

Especially since it's supposed to be a social network. What's the use of that if your friends aren't allowed to play?

It seems like the only real distinguishing feature is a simplified grouping/security mechanism. I'd guess Facebook copies it and Google+ disappears since they already have the userbase.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Damnable double post. The actual post is below.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 29 June 2011 - 03:43 PM.

[th@tkid]

I finally 'turned off' my cell number that I've had since 1996 and force people to use my GV number. I found an app that automatically replies to txt messeages, so if someone sends it to my old number they get an autoresponse with the new number. When I upgrade this summer, I might just switch my number and not give out the new one so people HAVE to use my GV number.

We also ported our landline number to GV and use it in conjunction with Ooma. It's freaking awesome.

What is the actual benefit of GV other than one number or at least can you expand upon it?

[Trlicek's Whip]

I'd guess Facebook copies [anything that Google+ manages to do new and/or well] and Google+ disappears.

Dave Winer is in agreement about why Facebook is different and why what Google+ is proposing isn't going to help them crush Facebook.

Google Yawn:

The thing that makes Facebook great is that it incubated in the market with real users. It was made by real users. It was formed by actual use. One day at a time, one feature at a time, in public, every home run visible, and every mis-step. Products like the one Google just announced are hatched at off-sites at resorts near Monterey or in the Sierra, and were designed to meet the needs of the corporation that created it. A huge scared angry corporation. What little is left of the spark that created [Google] in the first place is now used to being Number One, and wants to feel that again.

All the positive press reacting to the Google+ announcement (I've seen buzz in Fast Company and Gizmodo) seem to be from people that are either 1) tech adopters that are giddy with any new, shiny, social media toy, and/or 2) were older than the college-aged fanbase when Facebook became Facebook, so sort of missed the boat on the boom.

If Google+ comes up with nifty moves, Facebook will put it into Facebook. If it re-brands and positions itself as (for example) a grown-up Facebook, it's still coming in second-best to Facebook.

The drop in Facebook users in May to me doesn't speak to attrition, as it charts a hugely exponential growth curve that couldn't sustain itself.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 29 June 2011 - 03:42 PM.

[mt8thsw9th]

The mobile Google page (on Android at least) kicks ass now..

Yeah, it's a lot different now:

[jercra]

What is the actual benefit of GV other than one number or at least can you expand upon it?

I use Google Voice as my only phone number. It allowed me keep the same number as I moved from ATT to T-Mo and back. I was able to transfer the same number I have had for 10 years to Google Voice so it's now my number forever if I so choose. That may not sound like a big deal but my phone is issued through my company and they choose the provider and phone numbers aren't alsways transferable. It's fully integrated with my Android phone as the source of all calls and texts. It's my voicemail and I can set up different VM messages for different groups of people. I can also make different phones ring for incoming calls based different groups of people. When family calls I can have it ring my cell, my home and my office while work calls get routed only to my work phone if I want to. Managing such things is also very easy. GV will also attempt to turn your voice messages into text, often hilariously wrong. In addition, since GV is also a full web app I can send texts from my laptop that appear to come from my phone and I can initiate phone calls from within GV or GMail. It's also very cheap for international calling if you need it (2c/minute to the UK for instance). And finally, you can search, on your laptop/pc or phone through all of your texts and voicemails. Others probably have other features they use but those are the ones I use.

One feature I didn't use but a friend used was the ability to choose your number based on a string (if you don't transfer your number). For instance, you could search for the number 508-the-kid1 or something. It's minor but I'll never forget my friend's number.

[th@tkid]

I use Google Voice as my only phone number. It allowed me keep the same number as I moved from ATT to T-Mo and back. I was able to transfer the same number I have had for 10 years to Google Voice so it's now my number forever if I so choose. That may not sound like a big deal but my phone is issued through my company and they choose the provider and phone numbers aren't alsways transferable. It's fully integrated with my Android phone as the source of all calls and texts. It's my voicemail and I can set up different VM messages for different groups of people. I can also make different phones ring for incoming calls based different groups of people. When family calls I can have it ring my cell, my home and my office while work calls get routed only to my work phone if I want to. Managing such things is also very easy. GV will also attempt to turn your voice messages into text, often hilariously wrong. In addition, since GV is also a full web app I can send texts from my laptop that appear to come from my phone and I can initiate phone calls from within GV or GMail. It's also very cheap for international calling if you need it (2c/minute to the UK for instance). And finally, you can search, on your laptop/pc or phone through all of your texts and voicemails. Others probably have other features they use but those are the ones I use.

One feature I didn't use but a friend used was the ability to choose your number based on a string (if you don't transfer your number). For instance, you could search for the number 508-the-kid1 or something. It's minor but I'll never forget my friend's number.

Thanks. I had my buddysend me an invite when he finally got into the Beta but I never did anything with it, I just really couldn't figure out why I would want it. But it does make sense. Do the text messages count against your plan?

[Foulkey Reese]

Apparently people with accounts can now invite others. Anybody want to start the hook up chain?

[uncannymanny]

Exactly. If it's good enough, people will want it. See: Search, Gmail, Docs, News, Android, Analytics, etc, etc. The problem with their failures - things like Wave, Buzz, etc, - is that they didn't solve any problems. They simply introduced new solutions. Here we have a slightly different situation: A social network with frustrating privacy controls and difficult management of different groups of friends/family is a current problem. Google is advertising these as solved by their social network, with full integration with all their other services. The devil is in the details/execution, but it's at least addressing something worth addressing.

See the two quotes below. This is exactly what will happen and users are already well tied into the fb ecosystem. Once fb copies G+ (which is basically a maturation of features fb already has), there will be no reason. Google is really going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat asap if they think they're going to get the kind of transfer that fb got from myspace. The difference between fb ans ms was enormous and that STILL took years to happen. Google+ is basically Custer @ Little Big Horn here. I get that social crap is all the rage and they want in, but this just isn't different enough to migrate hundreds of millions of users over. Privacy concerns? You don't think fb will expose a shit ton of Google's privacy issues to a publiv that may not be aware of them as much as the tech community? Google does not want to start that fight as any damage would blow back onto already successful products and the brand itself. I think some are underestimating exactly how huge facebook is. They aren't myspace and it's going to take a LOT to bring them down. G+ doesn't seem to be it to me. Still waiting on Diaspora.

It seems like the only real distinguishing feature is a simplified grouping/security mechanism. I'd guess Facebook copies it and Google+ disappears since they already have the userbase.

Dave Winer is in agreement about why Facebook is different and why what Google+ is proposing isn't going to help them crush Facebook.

Google Yawn:


All the positive press reacting to the Google+ announcement (I've seen buzz in Fast Company and Gizmodo) seem to be from people that are either 1) tech adopters that are giddy with any new, shiny, social media toy, and/or 2) were older than the college-aged fanbase when Facebook became Facebook, so sort of missed the boat on the boom.

If Google+ comes up with nifty moves, Facebook will put it into Facebook. If it re-brands and positions itself as (for example) a grown-up Facebook, it's still coming in second-best to Facebook.

The drop in Facebook users in May to me doesn't speak to attrition, as it charts a hugely exponential growth curve that couldn't sustain itself.

<hr/>

google voice was developed by Grandcentral and was better with them. The interface now is clunky, but I love the functionality - they havent screwed that up yet

I don't use it for phone, I use it for one phone number to reach me anywhere.

I wish most of the stuff they bought they had just let develop with their original companies. I have this issue with much of Google's product line (as angrily noted about Docs).

I finally 'turned off' my cell number that I've had since 1996 and force people to use my GV number. I found an app that automatically replies to txt messeages, so if someone sends it to my old number they get an autoresponse with the new number. When I upgrade this summer, I might just switch my number and not give out the new one so people HAVE to use my GV number.

We also ported our landline number to GV and use it in conjunction with Ooma. It's freaking awesome.

Voice might be worth it to me for telemarketers and creditors (student loans, idiocy from being 18-20). What's the process like?

[Foulkey Reese]

Cmurphycode was nice enough to send me an invite. I'm not sure how many invites I have, but if anybody wants in just PM me your email and I'll invite until they run out.

[Sea Bass Neely]

I've been playing around with it tonight, but based on what I've seen so far - I don't think it's going to make it.

[jercra]

Thanks. I had my buddysend me an invite when he finally got into the Beta but I never did anything with it, I just really couldn't figure out why I would want it. But it does make sense. Do the text messages count against your plan?

Hmm, good question. I never see the bill so I've never considered it. According to a quick Google search, and in line with common sense, as long as you're using the GV app to send and receive texts then they don't count as an SMS, just as data from your data plan.

[Foulkey Reese]

To everybody who sent me a PM, when I woke up this morning all of my invites were gone

Sorry

[JerBear]

To everybody who sent me a PM, when I woke up this morning all of my invites were gone

Sorry

They shut off the invites because of how many went out. They should open again within a couple of days.

[TallerThanPedroia]

Unless I'm remembering wrong, even when Gmail was invite-only, users could still email non-users who used different services. That distinguishes it from Google+.

[Foulkey Reese]

They shut off the invites because of how many went out. They should open again within a couple of days.

Ahhh. Well when they do open I will send out as many as I can if people still need them.

[Blacken]

So far, this thing is pretty fucking fantastic. I'm amazed at how slick it is right now--this is Google at their best in ways I haven't really seen them roll out a multi-function app before. Maps, etc. are cool, but the frontends that you see are fundamentally fairly simple. This is a complex technical system that manages to hide it from the user and be really, really pleasant to use. (I fucking love the problem reporting tool - it grays out the screen, you select the HTML elements where your problem is, you black out personal information, and it feels very natural and is sure to be copied by everybody.)

It's very similar, at least in overall "feel", to how Facebook was before the fucking app framework and before everyone's grandmother was on it. I like it a lot so far.

[The Four Peters]

Ahhh. Well when they do open I will send out as many as I can if people still need them.

Hook me up, yo.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Hook me up, yo.

Me too, jerky.

[brs3]

I believe I still have invites, if you want to PM with your email, I'll send out til I can't anymore.

[zenter]

So far, this thing is pretty fucking fantastic. I'm amazed at how slick it is right now--this is Google at their best in ways I haven't really seen them roll out a multi-function app before. Maps, etc. are cool, but the frontends that you see are fundamentally fairly simple. This is a complex technical system that manages to hide it from the user and be really, really pleasant to use. (I fucking love the problem reporting tool - it grays out the screen, you select the HTML elements where your problem is, you black out personal information, and it feels very natural and is sure to be copied by everybody.)

It's very similar, at least in overall "feel", to how Facebook was before the fucking app framework and before everyone's grandmother was on it. I like it a lot so far.

Agreed. They've elegantly thought out the best aspects of Twitter (semi-public discussion, following of people) and Facebook (semi-private discussions, friending), all in a clean and much slicker interface than either. Facebook would have to dig deep into their architecture to copy what Google+ does.

Two problems:

1) Android app only allows you to pick default Android Google account. My Plus account is a different Google account. They should fix this in short order.
2) Not enough of my friends are on there yet. This should resolve itself.

[PortlandSoxFan]

if you get an invite from someone on here, be sure to use at least one of YOUR invites here, you leeches!

[ScubaSteveAvery]

How do I find out if I have invites?

[Orange Julia]

We found a workaround in chat for the invites. Just have someone who has google+ "tag" you in a message or whatever it is called, and when you click through you sign up. No invite needed. I will demonstrate with SSA because i have his email address and perhaps he can explain how it works.

[Foulkey Reese]

We found a workaround in chat for the invites. Just have someone who has google+ "tag" you in a message or whatever it is called, and when you click through you sign up. No invite needed. I will demonstrate with SSA because i have his email address and perhaps he can explain how it works.

I just tried that with you PSF. If it works I will tag everybody else who wants in. Let me know.

[jayhoz]

I'm not sure if this method is the same or different from the one OJ posted.

First, figure out who you'll send invitations to. If they're already in your Gmail address book or another Google service, you're a step ahead. If not, there's some cutting and pasting in your future.

For friends whose e-mails are already in your Gmail address book or otherwise discoverable in Google+'s Circles section, add them to a special circle you created for G+ invitees. If they're not in your contacts, just hold onto their addresses for now.

Next, start a new Google+ message, the equivalent of a Facebook update message or a Twitter tweet. In it, type an invitation message with an expectations-lowering caution. Here's what I've been saying: "This message serves as an invite to Google+. Google throttles the signup rate, though, so it may not work at first. If not, try again later."

Next, address the message. Clear out any existing circles, then add your Google+ invitee circle. If you have individual e-mail addresses, now's the time for pasting: click on the "+Add more people" words below the message box and paste in the addresses. You'll have to click on each one to register it as you go.

Last, click the "share" button. That's it!

Edited by jayhoz, 30 June 2011 - 04:18 PM.

[WayBackVazquez]

Received. THANKS.

Edited by WayBackVazquez, 30 June 2011 - 05:00 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

Tried the trick Jayhoz posted and included everybody who posted their email or PMd me with an address. Gotta go for now so if I missed anybody I apologize. PM me.

Good luck.

[PBDWake]

I'm poking around now, it looks pretty nice. Appreciate the help, and if I can help out anyone else, I will!

[AlNipper49]

Someone tag me -- timquinn@gmail.com or Thatwasnttapioca@gmail.com. Thanks!!