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Liverpool FC 2011-12: Won Multiple Trophies Since Arsenal's Last One


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#1151 DLew On Roids


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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:13 PM

507 passes to Villa's 167, according to Zonal Marking.

The problem is that they string eight passes together and some jackass says, "Fuck it, I'll just put it in the box and see if it finds someone's head.". They've been doing the SAME FUCKING THING for eight months. I don't think I've seen them try to attack in the middle at all except maybe on the counter. Kenny and Clarke are out of ideas and they only ever had one to begin with.

We got Shankley from Huddersfield, right? How about getting another manager who believes in passing from an overachieving club, like, oh, Swansea?

#1152 Tony the Pony


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:44 AM

So yesterday Kuijt had his first talk with Feyenoord about coming back this Summer. His contract states he can leave Liverpool for 1.1M, and despite him having to settle for a decimated contract, I suspect Mrs. Kuijt wears the pants in their household and will prevail in her quest to enroll 3 of their 4 kids in Dutch school for the next school year.

#1153 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:57 PM

Doni, Flanagan, Coates, Skrtel ©, Johnson, Rodriguez, Henderson, Spearing, Bellamy, Shelvey, Carroll

Bench: Jones, Carragher, Agger, Enrique, Aurelio, Kuyt, Suarez


I can't recall a player in the last few years struggling more than Jordan Henderson. Yet another piss-poor pass nips an attack in the bud.

Maxi! Skrtel picks out Bellamy after a free kick for Blackburn, and Bellamy picks out Maxi on a gorgeous cross along the ground.

Shoulda taken that Ladbrokes

Maxi AGAIN. Robbery by Shelvey in midfield on Dunn, Robinson stops two opportunities but Maxi puts in the third.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 10 April 2012 - 02:21 PM.


#1154 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

Hahahaha Doni just got a straight red. Roll Jonesy.

And Jones makes the save on Yakubu's penalty. Legend.

Yakubu gets one back after a free kick from a Bellamy handball. 2-1 Liverpool at half.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 10 April 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#1155 Zomp


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:58 PM

So does that mean Doni and Reina are out for the semi?

#1156 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

Correct.

Jones picks up a yellow by casually launching a ball into Yakubu's hindquarters and having to recover. Now a penalty.

Level at 2. I would trust a BAYS goalkeeper over what we've got going into the semi.

Edited by PedroSpecialK, 10 April 2012 - 03:21 PM.


#1157 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

...and I laugh. Carroll in extra time, 3-2.

#1158 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

Doni sits on his ass the entire season, then gets sent off in his second game. Awesome. Brad Jones, welcome to Wembley. For those that don't know, his son died of leukemia in November, and his wife gave birth last week. If he can come up big against Everton, it will be quite the story.

If there is one thing that Dalglish deserves the most criticism for, it's his use of Maxi Rodriguez. Every time he plays, he scores, but Kenny never plays him.

#1159 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:53 PM

I'm watching the replay, and this is one of the most ridiculous games I've ever seen.
- The game had 9 yellows and a red card. Liverpool came close to having TWO keepers sent off, which would have left them with no senior goalkeeper for the FA Cup semifinal.
- Blackburn's first goal came on a free kick, when Liverpool decided a wall of Bellamy and Spearing would be sufficient. Those 2 combined are barely taller than Peter Crouch.
- Jones' only decent save after coming on was to keep Carroll from scoring an own goal.
- Blackburn played 11 on 10 for 65 minutes, got 2 penalties, and were playing a Liverpool squad that had won 1 of their last 9 league games, with no Gerrard, Suarez, or Kuyt, and STILL lost.

Basically, it was everything I would expect from a game where Martin Skrtel was the Liverpool captain.

#1160 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:18 PM

Despite watching it, reading that summary just gave me a hangover.

#1161 DLew On Roids


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:02 AM

Dammit, after reading that summary, I feel like an idiot for forgetting to DVR the match. I hadn't missed a televised match this season.

Jones told the Guardian that he and Yakubu used to practice penalties every Friday at Boro.

The Guardian also has information about Liverpool's keeper options here. Jerzy Dudek!

Don't call Spearing short or he and Lucas will have words for you.


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#1162 Snakebauer007


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

http://blogs.telegra...al-correctness/

Just curious if anyone on here is old enough to been around when this happened or be affected by it and has an opinion on the matter?

#1163 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

We've had a couple of threads in the past where people shared their thoughts and experiences. I know cjdmadcow is a lifelong fan from Liverpool, and many of our other European members can offer insights that are much more personal than any of us from the States can. I can offer a few opinions, though.

Hillsborough was just before my 18th birthday, and it did get some press in the US at the time. I won't claim I was affected by it anywhere near as much as anyone from Liverpool, or anyone who was a local fan of any European club at the time, for that matter, but I do distinctly remember seeing the ages of the dead and realizing how many people around my age died simply because they went to a football match.

Here are a few things you need to remember about the disaster when discussing how Liverpudlians react to articles like this:

- In the immediate aftermath, the fans themselves were blamed for the deaths. People who were trying to save their fellow fans were accused of stealing from the dead and urinating on the police.
- Even after the facts about the disaster came out, many of those lies continue to be told.
- 23 years later, nobody has been held responsible. It's a cover-up involving the authorities that exists to this day.

Under those circumstances, would anyone be able to find any semblance of closure?

As for not playing on April 15th, it's not just a matter of taking a day off to remember. The club holds a memorial at Anfield every year on the date. Everyone connected with the club attends. That wouldn't be possible if there was a match. Given the way the schedules are set up for TV viewing, it's really not difficult at all to avoid playing that day.

#1164 DLew On Roids


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

To follow on from SFiC's comments, I think a big part of the reason why Liverpool don't play on April 15 is that the club and the vast majority of its supporters think that the people who died have never received justice. Because of that, commemoration of Hillsborough is part of an ongoing fight, not a memorial.

I think three things stand in the way of Liverpool being wiling to play on April 15:
  • A release of the full records of the Thatcher government regarding Hillsborough
  • Open hearings into police misconduct or incompetence on the day of the tragedy and the subsequent cover-up
  • Discipline or prosecution for those who were responsible for the tragedy and the cover-up
I've heard a lot of people compare Liverpool's commemoration of Hillsborough to its memory of Heysel, but I think that misses the point. This isn't about commemorating events where people died, but a community that is seeking justice for the deaths of its own members. And while Heysel remains an indelible stain on Liverpool's history, I think the rush to absolve UEFA of any wrongdoing in the choice of venue and seating arrangements was part of a culture that facilitated the events at Hillsborough.

An appropriate reaction to Ibrox, Bradford, or Heysel would have prevented those 96 Liverpool supporters' deaths. I sometimes wonder if part of the Liverpool community's continuing reaction to Hillsborough is the knowledge that it had a front seat for Heysel and didn't fight enough to prevent another tragedy.

#1165 Snakebauer007


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:23 PM

Just curious to hear from your perspective, thanks for the responses

#1166 cjdmadcow

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:02 AM

I'll make a separate comment on the Hillsborough question after I've tracked down some info I'm looking for, but in other news...

Comilli Sacked

The 'family reasons' comment is a nice try but nobody leaves a senior management position in a football club two days before the FA Cup semi-final, so that doesn't wash with me. Seems FSG have taken decisive action, Kenny has got what he wanted and now it's all down to him. Maybe he didn't agree with some of the signings after all?

#1167 Apisith

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

I know Hillsborough's important but other teams are adversely affected by this refusal to play on the 15th. Chelsea are now less prepared against Barca for the CL semi.

#1168 JayMags71


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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

Liverpool ousts Damien Comolli



LIVERPOOL, England -- Liverpool's owners released director of football Damien Comolli on Thursday, six months after changing general managers with the Boston Red Sox.
Liverpool has spent $183 million on players since Comolli joined in November 2010 from the French club Saint-Etienne, but expensive recruits Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson and Stewart Downing are among those who have failed to impress. Liverpool is eighth in the Premier League and will fail for the third straight year to qualify for the Champions League.


So, does this mean Kenny is in charge?
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#1169 DLew On Roids


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:42 PM

I know Hillsborough's important but other teams are adversely affected by this refusal to play on the 15th. Chelsea are now less prepared against Barca for the CL semi.



And that's clearly more important than 96 dead people. I mean, they'll still be dead on the 16th anyway, right? How incredibly fucking selfish of those families.

Do you have to regularly smash your head with a blunt object to come up with these ideas, or do they just come naturally? I'm legitimately curious.

#1170 Apisith

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:16 AM

Teams that have suffered tragedies don't ask for regular exceptions like Liverpool fans do for Hillsborough.

Why not play the game and honour the people who died by singing songs about them? You know, like how every other team does it.

I know there's the cover up etc., but that's beef that you have with the authorities, which shouldn't affect other teams.

I believe Man Utd's played on the anniversary of the Munich Disaster, that football's been played on the Heysel disaster. Rangers had a disaster in the 70s, Bolton a bit earlier and all of them honour their dead and have played football on those days, as far as I know.

Edited by Apisith, 14 April 2012 - 12:17 AM.


#1171 DLew On Roids


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:44 AM

No "fuck it, I'll just try a cross" moments in the first few attacks. That qualifies as progress.

#1172 SidelineCameras

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:38 AM

Oh Carroll...that one's got to hurt.

#1173 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:38 AM

Oh my god, Carroll. How on earth can you miss that.

#1174 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:52 AM

SUAREZ!!!

What a giveaway by Distan

#1175 SidelineCameras

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:53 AM

Holy crap, assist to Dustin.

#1176 fenwaypaul

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:54 AM

Score even thanks to matching blunders!

#1177 SidelineCameras

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

I like when the announcer says, "It's a chance for Liverpool....this is Andy Carroll..."

...cause that's really never much of a chance.

Edit: Except there. Wow.

Edited by SidelineCameras, 14 April 2012 - 08:18 AM.


#1178 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:17 AM

ANDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

#1179 fenwaypaul

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

Not useless!

#1180 Zomp


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

Andy Carrol has sent Newcastle into Europe.

#1181 Seven Costanza


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:48 AM

Andy Carrol has sent Newcastle into Europe.


He did that for the Toon as a true Geordie. An embedded secret agent- he may outwardly be red, but he's all black and white on the inside.

I'm so unbelievably jacked.

#1182 SidelineCameras

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

Serious question - do Liverpool fans still want to can Dalglish? If his position wasn't already safe before, it sure as hell is now, I would say.

#1183 Zomp


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

I'd bet the majority of intelligent fans want him gone. Dlew has had a few nice writeups in this thread about Kenny's tactics (or lack thereof) with the squad he has. Even if they win the FA Cup, their league position is more of an indicator of whats going on with the team.

#1184 DLew On Roids


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

Notice how Liverpool got markedly better in the second half when Kenny took of his pet projects and brought in Bells and Maxi?

Pepe Reina seems like a fucking great teammate.

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#1185 SidelineCameras

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:30 AM

Even if they win the FA Cup, their league position is more of an indicator of whats going on with the team.


That's why I'm asking. And yet, it's hard to fire any manager who wins the Cup Double, let alone a cult hero like King Kenny.

#1186 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

3 wins against Everton is nice.

What a bizarre season. Might finish bottom half of the league, but will play 3 Wembley games and have made 2 finals.

Given what he's been through, I couldn't be happier for Brad Jones. Pretty special day for Andy Carroll, too.

#1187 SoxFanInPdx

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:55 PM

Serious question - do Liverpool fans still want to can Dalglish? If his position wasn't already safe before, it sure as hell is now, I would say.


Even if they win the FA Cup, my opinion hasn't changed, I'd like him to step down. I know that FSG may not have the balls to outright fire him, so I think the only way he leaves is if he makes the decision himself. I honestly think the game has passed him. The tactics and the type of signings he has implemented have not impressed me at all besides Suarez (who I think is gone after the season ends). The game isn't played like it was even 5 years ago, much less 20 years ago.

Trophies are nice to have, but I want this team to be a threat to win the league and qualify for the Champions League again. With the way they are constructed now, they aren't even close to doing either one of those imo. Liverpool is a team with a lot of history and tradition and still has that big name, but the chances of getting top players are less likely when you don't have Champions League to fall back on. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the offseason and summer transfer deadline.

#1188 Apisith

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:10 PM

Well done.

And thank you.

#1189 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:15 PM

Even if they win the FA Cup, my opinion hasn't changed, I'd like him to step down. I know that FSG may not have the balls to outright fire him, so I think the only way he leaves is if he makes the decision himself. I honestly think the game has passed him. The tactics and the type of signings he has implemented have not impressed me at all besides Suarez (who I think is gone after the season ends). The game isn't played like it was even 5 years ago, much less 20 years ago.

Trophies are nice to have, but I want this team to be a threat to win the league and qualify for the Champions League again. With the way they are constructed now, they aren't even close to doing either one of those imo. Liverpool is a team with a lot of history and tradition and still has that big name, but the chances of getting top players are less likely when you don't have Champions League to fall back on. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the offseason and summer transfer deadline.

This is where I'm at - but judging by the way Dalglish has used Carroll and (as DLew has pointed out numerous times) seemingly refused to make him the focal point of the attack, I have to believe it was more Comolli pushing for his signing than KD.

That aside, his insistence on playing black holes like Henderson and (less so) Downing while Maxi rots on the bench is abhorrent. For a club struggling to score goals, leaving a player with 13 in his last 20 appearances (11 in his last 19 before Blackburn) on the bench 90% of the time is a travesty. In the end, I believe it'll be Kenny's stubbornness that does him in. The talent is, by and large, there to make a CL push. Tactics and poor squad selection have been the biggest culprits in falling short of that goal, in my mind.

#1190 DLew On Roids


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:35 AM



#1191 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

So, it's Chelsea in the FA Cup Final on May 5th. That will require the postponement of our May 5th league match against...Chelsea.

Was there ever any doubt that it would end up being Chelsea? By my count, this means the 2 teams will play thirty-two times in the last 8 seasons.

2004-05: 5 times (2 league, 2 Champions League semifinal, 1 Carling Cup Final)
2005-06: 5 times (2 league, 2 Champions League Group Stage, 1 FA Cup semifinal)
2006-07: 5 times (2 league, 2 Champions League semifinal, 1 Community Shield)
2007-08: 5 times (2 league, 2 Champions League semifinal, 1 Carling Cup quarterfinal)
2008-09: 4 times (2 league, 2 Champions League quarterfinal)
2009-10: 2 times (2 league)
2010-11: 2 times (2 league)
2011-12: 4 times (2 league, 1 Carling Cup quarterinal, 1 FA Cup Final)

Edited by SoxFanInCali, 15 April 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#1192 Snakebauer007


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:01 PM

That's pretty crazy hopefully it will be more exciting than some of the champions League encounters which made me want to claw my eyes out

#1193 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

There were some good ones in there, too. The 4-4 at the Bridge was an insane game, the League Cup Final in 05 went extra time (after a Gerrard own goal, of all things), the FA cup semi went down to the wire, and all of the CL semifinals were excruciatingly tense, even if they were a bit ugly.

You shouldn't have to worry, though. As I posted after the League Cup Final win, Liverpool don't know how to play a final that doesn't induce heart attacks.

#1194 Snakebauer007


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

true that, the Gerrard own goal extra time game, was that when Kezman scored the winner? I will google this of course, but just curious to see how bad my memory is.

The 2 games I really hated were the Luis Garcia "goal"

And the FA cup game(I thinkit was FA cup anyways) where we started to rightbacks at Rightback and right mid(Geremi and Ferreira) and lost of course.

#1195 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:35 PM

Yeah, Kezman scored. I can't remember if it was the winner because you guys scored twice in extra time and Liverpool scored one late (I'm 99% sure that was Antonio Nunez's only Liverpool goal).

The thing that every Chelsea fan fails to bring up about the Garcia goal is that if it was ruled no goal, Cech is sent off, Liverpool have a penalty, and it's 11 vs. 10 for over 80 minutes. You probably had a better chance the way it was called, as you just needed a single away goal. The Gudjohnsen chance in the 95th minute almost killed me.

Kinda funny that the exact thing happened with Cech today. He only avoided being sent off because Spurs scored on the continuation.

Edited by SoxFanInCali, 15 April 2012 - 02:47 PM.


#1196 Snakebauer007


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:03 PM

Oh yeah I dont care I will bring that goal up until I die, such is the scorn of a fan. I feel like Garcia always troubled us, and I never really understood why

#1197 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

Garcia could disappear for weeks at a time, but he always seemed to come up huge in the big games. It wasn't just Chelsea, he scored winning goals against Arsenal, Juventus, and Everton, among others.





#1198 Snakebauer007


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

Now I remember why, the celebration. Posted Image

#1199 Royal Reader

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:13 PM

An appropriate reaction to Ibrox, Bradford, or Heysel would have prevented those 96 Liverpool supporters' deaths. I sometimes wonder if part of the Liverpool community's continuing reaction to Hillsborough is the knowledge that it had a front seat for Heysel and didn't fight enough to prevent another tragedy.


There was, in fact, an appropriate response at the legislative level. The Safety at sports grounds act which was updated in the aftermath of the Bradford fire mandated various things, but it was largely ignored - at the time of the disaster, Hillsborough did not have a valid safety certificate. The stand in question was deemed unsafe in 1981, but the necessary work was never done. You talk to anyone who was going to football regularly in the 70s and 80s, and they'd tell you it was only a matter of time before Hillsborough or something like it happened, and something of a miracle that it took as long as it did.

You write about the topic, and you find yourself having to put parenthetical disclaimers on everything you say. Like, the end as a whole wasn't over capacity at the time of the crush - only due to the fact that the safety barriers had failed testing, it should legally have been several thousand lower than that which was permitted for this particular game. There were Scousers without tickets present, as there had been at every Liverpool game for years, but not in great enough numbers to be a factor. I think it's pretty much established fact, except among Liverpool haters and conspiracy theorists, that nothing the Liverpool fans did that day was particularly unusual for football crowds, or directly responsible for the deaths.

In so far as Liverpool fans were responsible for Hillsborough at all, it was indirectly, in terms of the Heysel disaster contributing to football clubs feeling the need to pen their fans in to stop them attacking each other. For those who dislike Liverpool the biggest issue, I think, is the perceived disparity between the reaction of Liverpool (as a city) to Hillsborough and Heysel. There was an actual campaign in Liverpool to protect the fans responsible for the latter being extradited to Belgium to be tried for their part in the deaths of those 39 Italians. There's also the small matter of things like the 'Ice on the Runway' song which makes Liverpool fans look like hypocrites in terms of respect for the dead. And the more recent ferocious defence of blatant racism.

Davies' line of argument is different, and he makes the analogy with Munich and with the loss of his own mother as a child, and just asking why this one specific tragedy requires normal activity to stop. Certainly, there's no reason why they couldn't hold the memorial service the night before. Yes, the Liverpool fans were smeared, and yes, things were covered up in the short term. But to outsiders, it does ring of 'Our tragedy is more important than yours,' SFIC's eloquent defense of the culture notwithstanding. What's the endgame for the HJC? I have a hard time believing putting two elderly men behind bars for unintentional failings that probably haunt them constantly is going to produce closure if it hasn't come already. And this is coming from someone who won't buy the Sun as a direct result of their coverage of that event.

As a footnote, the visitors' end at Sheffield Wednesday is still on the exact same location as where the tragedy happened, and sitting in it doesn't half bring it home. Last time I went to Wednesday I found myself openly weeping despite myself when I went to lay flowers on the memorial (which is singularly unimpressive in comparison with the one at Anfield or the Bradford Memorial at Valley Parade).

#1200 MiracleOfO2704


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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:30 PM

There was, in fact, an appropriate response at the legislative level. The Safety at sports grounds act which was updated in the aftermath of the Bradford fire mandated various things, but it was largely ignored - at the time of the disaster, Hillsborough did not have a valid safety certificate. The stand in question was deemed unsafe in 1981, but the necessary work was never done. You talk to anyone who was going to football regularly in the 70s and 80s, and they'd tell you it was only a matter of time before Hillsborough or something like it happened, and something of a miracle that it took as long as it did.

[...]

Davies' line of argument is different, and he makes the analogy with Munich and with the loss of his own mother as a child, and just asking why this one specific tragedy requires normal activity to stop. Certainly, there's no reason why they couldn't hold the memorial service the night before. Yes, the Liverpool fans were smeared, and yes, things were covered up in the short term. But to outsiders, it does ring of 'Our tragedy is more important than yours,' SFIC's eloquent defense of the culture notwithstanding. What's the endgame for the HJC? I have a hard time believing putting two elderly men behind bars for unintentional failings that probably haunt them constantly is going to produce closure if it hasn't come already. And this is coming from someone who won't buy the Sun as a direct result of their coverage of that event.

As a footnote, the visitors' end at Sheffield Wednesday is still on the exact same location as where the tragedy happened, and sitting in it doesn't half bring it home. Last time I went to Wednesday I found myself openly weeping despite myself when I went to lay flowers on the memorial (which is singularly unimpressive in comparison with the one at Anfield or the Bradford Memorial at Valley Parade).


I think those two are more closely related than anyone wants to think. Had there been no Sun front page to completely smear Liverpudlians, a lot of the outrage of the last twenty years is lessened. As it is, holding Duckenfield and co. responsible puts an end to the misguided idea that somehow fans of LFC were directly responsible for their own demise and that they're somewhat sub-human in comparison to other supporters.

As for the first part, not to somehow skirt LFC's fans' responsibility for Heysel, but there were concerns with the safety in that stand as well, which were glossed over by UEFA, and the result was both sets of fans using the crumbled stones as missiles to attack each other. It seems that Europe never really grasped the hooligan problem until after Hillsborough.