255 replies to this topic

[Trlicek's Whip]

Link

After being dropped to the No. 9 spot in the lineup, the struggling Jorge Posada went into manager Joe Girardi's office and asked out of Saturday's lineup, according to New York Yankees general manager Brian Cashman.

Cashman says that Posada refused even after Cash talked to him about playing. So he lol-boo-hoo'd out of the 9-hole because he was disrespected with his demotion - .165 batting average notwithstanding.

The situation is fluid and really all over the place right now. Talk of suspensions, his outright release, Posada retiring, or being docked pay are all swirling storylines. Jack Curry is all over it on his Twitter feed. He's even spoken to Posada's father, who also disagrees with his son's decision to not play.

Posada's wife gave another reason he didn't play via Twitter - which if true, means she's the only one to break the real story:

Posada's wife Laura took to Twitter to defend her husband. "Jorge loves being a Yankee > anything," she tweeted. "He's trying his best to help his team win. Today, due to back stiffness he wasn't able to do that."

Cashman (according to Curry) said that Posada's opt-out was not injury-related.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 14 May 2011 - 10:02 PM.

[BucketOBalls]

Link


Cashman (according to Curry) said that Posada's opt-out was not injury-related.

Bet they back peddle on that and Cashman comes up with some funny way of parsing it so he wasn't lying. "well, tightness isn't really an injury..."

[Trlicek's Whip]

Bet they back peddle on that and Cashman comes up with some funny way of parsing it so he wasn't lying. "well, tightness isn't really an injury..."

Agreed. This is a Player's Union can of worms down the road if Cashman doesn't give himself an out. Especially if they stiff Jorge his 72 grand.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 14 May 2011 - 10:18 PM.

[jon abbey]

Girardi and Posada are both saying the same thing after the game. Posada said he needed a day to clear his head and Girardi gave it to him.

[jon abbey]

Posada on Cashman: "I didn't know he talked to people during the game. That's the way he works now."

[twoBshorty]

Posada on Cashman: "I didn't know he talked to people during the game. That's the way he works now."

Has Cashman developed a drinking problem? I'm serious. His behavior over the last few months has been very bizarre.

[ThePrideofShiner]

Has Cashman developed a drinking problem? I'm serious. His behavior over the last few months has been very bizarre.

I don't think it's bizarre at all.

Posada is being a little whiner, so Cashman decided to take control of the message from the team's end, which I think is the right thing to do.

The Yankees don't owe Posada anything, besides 13 million dollars. If they want him to hit ninth, he should do it and not pull himself from the lineup 70 minutes before a huge game with the Red Sox.

Posada should get shredded for this, but I'm not sure if he actually will.

[Sampo Gida]

Posada kind of looked like Nomar did in 2004 sitting on the bench by his lonesome and scowling while resting his achilles tendon after a horrible first 2 games in the series.

I am also reminded of Manny in 2008 sitting out against the Yankees with as questionable injury as Posadas back spasms which were reported only after Fox started talking about the possibility of the Yankees voiding his contract .

I wonder if Posada suffers the same fate as Nomar and Manny and is sent packing (in Posadas case that would have to be a DFA) as his sitting out against the Red Sox while making 13 million can not go over too well in Yankee land. It would be sending a message to a team that smiles/laughs when they strike out in a critical AB (Swisher) or when batting with the team down 6-0 (Cano laughing at something, and Colon found something amusing on the bench) .

If Chavez was not out he would have been the perfect guy to replace Posada at DH. They could still bring up Montero or Vazquez

[KenTremendous]

Has Cashman developed a drinking problem? I'm serious. His behavior over the last few months has been very bizarre.

It really has. That to me is the most interesting part of this story. He seems to revel in airing dirty laundry. The Soriano press conference was a clear case of a guy trying to get fired -- or at least not caring if he were fired. This is another stunner. What is happening there?

[JohntheBaptist]

A lot of focus is on "what actually happened and who's lying," but if it does come down to him asking out because he got moved down in the lineup I sincerely hope he catches a round of shit for that. That is unbelievably weak, especially when you're clearly toast--or hitting like it at least.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Maybe Cashman finally saw Office Space, and trying to be a real life Peter Gibbons? Or, he's "Opposite Brian", and doing the opposite of everything he would have done before. It seems like he's come to terms with not having any real power by speaking his mind about anything and everything, and daring someone to do something about it.

[Foulkey Reese]

A lot of focus is on "what actually happened and who's lying," but if it does come down to him asking out because he got moved down in the lineup I sincerely hope he catches a round of shit for that. That is unbelievably weak, especially when you're clearly toast--or hitting like it at least.

The contrast between Posada asking out and our crappy 9th hitting catcher having a pretty good night is just too great not to note.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 14 May 2011 - 10:43 PM.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Of course if Posada shoots his way out of town and Montero gets called up to play meaningful games, he's less likely to be traded for an ace pitcher this summer, which is a leverage-loss for Cashman. (EDIT: NYY has other prospects, but CW says Montero nets the biggest fish.)

But it does keep the Big Three of Nova/Garcia/Colon together longer.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 14 May 2011 - 10:47 PM.

[JohntheBaptist]

Jon abbey I have to think this effectively kills your hopes of moving Jeter down in the lineup against RHP. Or, you know, ever.

[Brianish]

It sounded to me like it was more or less what Girardi said. Posada's getting frustrated, then his back stiffens up. It's not an injury of particular note; it's just the last straw. So he asks out before he blows his stack. Then Cashman mouths off, because that seems to be what he does now, and the press starts saying things like "After being put 9th in the lineup, Posada asked to be removed."

It could be he actually threw a hissy fit, but until I see more evidence of it, I'm going with Occam's Razor.

[jon abbey]

It really has. That to me is the most interesting part of this story. He seems to revel in airing dirty laundry. The Soriano press conference was a clear case of a guy trying to get fired -- or at least not caring if he were fired. This is another stunner. What is happening there?

Disagree. The Soriano thing was just a case of Cashman thought it was a terrible move and didn't want to have to answer questions for the whole contract about why he signed him. Now he never has to do that.

Tonight is a little harder to understand, I think there's probably some behind the scenes stuff we don't know yet.

[jon abbey]

Jon abbey I have to think this effectively kills your hopes of moving Jeter down in the lineup against RHP. Or, you know, ever.

Why do you think this affects the Jeter situation? I think he's leadoff until he gets 3000 hits, and after that, there's a chance he could be moved, although with the way the rest of the lineup has also been sucking recently, it doesn't matter too much.

[Rasputin]

He's old, he's sore, he's sucking and he knows it. Manager puts him ninth. Posada says "Fuck this shit, I'm just gonna retire right now." Wife calls him up and says "Dude, thirteen million, STFU and play it out asshole."

[jon abbey]

It sounded to me like it was more or less what Girardi said. Posada's getting frustrated, then his back stiffens up. It's not an injury of particular note; it's just the last straw. So he asks out before he blows his stack. Then Cashman mouths off, because that seems to be what he does now, and the press starts saying things like "After being put 9th in the lineup, Posada asked to be removed."

It could be he actually threw a hissy fit, but until I see more evidence of it, I'm going with Occam's Razor.

This is pretty much what I think too, except I think Posada was initially OK about being moved down, then he started thinking for the first time that he really might be near the end of the line if he doesn't get his shit together, and it got to be too much and he asked for a mental health day.

I think the back thing was leaked during the game by his wife for damage control (and is basically a lie), but that was before he knew Cashman had already said there was nothing physically wrong with him.

[Wingack]

I've been sick of Posada's act for awhile now.

[JohntheBaptist]

Why do you think this affects the Jeter situation? I think he's leadoff until he gets 3000 hits, and after that, there's a chance he could be moved, although with the way the rest of the lineup has also been sucking recently, it doesn't matter too much.

Well, I meant it more as a joke, considering Girardi raising that subject any time soon would probably be... awkward. Just considering how this went down.

But really, this whole story has me kind of taken aback--is that the sentiment in that locker room? That for any of those four (now three obviously) to have to take any kind of demotion is total disrespect? Just saying, if they think Jeter would react in his own version of anger at the suggestion they may err on the side of bagging it for longer than you'd like.

[terrynever]

Posada seemed to be asking his friends in the media to cut him a break when he kept saying "you know me better than that." Well, actually, we do know Posada has a short fuse and plenty of pride. He threw a snit and then backed off, probably after his wife rang his cellphone up following the Cashman interview.

It's not exactly breaking news that the Yankees' regular lineup is getting old. A quick fix here would be Montero for Posada. Every scout I've talked to says Montero is big league ready as a hitter. The only thing keeping him out of New York is Posada and his remaining $10M from the final year of his four-year $52M contract that Cashman okayed after the 2007 season.

It's the Yankees' mess and they have to clean it up.

[jon abbey]

Just saying, if they think Jeter would react in his own version of anger at the suggestion they may err on the side of bagging it for longer than you'd like.

They definitely think that, and they're already about four baseball months late in my book (last August is when I would have done it).

[StuckOnYouk]

I think this all stems from Cashman and Girardi putting up a unified front to keep him from catching again once the 2010 season ended.

I mean this guys been the Yankees catcher for 15 years, won 5 rings, hit like hell, and they tell him to not even bring a glove to spring training. Yes his defense was eroding, but it's human nature to think he found that to be insulting and disrespectful, to use his word.

Then forward to them replacing him with a guy who at the time was thought of as a broken down guy who offered very little offensively..well that probably pissed him off even more. I'm sure in his perfect world he would have spent 2011 being a "Girardi" figure to Montero, playing 100 to Montero's 60 or maybe even 80/80 and DH'ing another 40 or 50 games.

Now he's mired in a horrific slump, can't acclimate himself to DH'ing, and is probably telling himself that the only reason he's hitting 160 is because Girardi and Cashman have shoehorned him into a DH slot that he simply can't acclimate himself to. Not that he's 100% trying to acclimate himself to it if he's still pouting internally and pissed off on how this whole thing is going down.

Then fast forward to today where he's struggling and now seeing his name 9th. I don't care what he says publicly, that's humiliating to a veteran who has had so much success and is seeing a guy like Gardner hitting in front of him.

Something went down in Girardi's office...heating exchanges guaranteed. A GM doesn't go onto national television to tell America that one of the Core 4 begged out of the game even though he didn't have an injury. Then Cashman leaves enough question marks out there where people are even suggesting he's gonna retire at the end of the game. When Manny didn't play because of sore knees, did Theo personally go on Fox and tell everyone about the MRI's?

The Bronx Zoo is back and I can't wait to read Cashman's autobiography. The guy is entertaining as hell lately.

Edited by StuckOnYouk, 14 May 2011 - 11:27 PM.

[Ed Hillel]

Just another case of a Posada with a big head.

[SemperFidelisSox]

I haven't seen a Yankee crash and burn like this since Cory Lidle's engine light went on.

[Sampo Gida]

It sounded to me like it was more or less what Girardi said. Posada's getting frustrated, then his back stiffens up. It's not an injury of particular note; it's just the last straw. So he asks out before he blows his stack. Then Cashman mouths off, because that seems to be what he does now, and the press starts saying things like "After being put 9th in the lineup, Posada asked to be removed."

It could be he actually threw a hissy fit, but until I see more evidence of it, I'm going with Occam's Razor.

Occam's razor is fine, but it still has to account for all the facts. If that's all it was, Cashman would not have spoken out in the manner he did. "Cashman mouths off because thats what he seems to do" does not cut it.

It was only after Fox started talking about the possibility of voiding his contract that news of his back came out via twitter (from his wife) and Cashmans interview. The purpose of the interview seemed only to make it clear that Posada' not playing had nothing to do with an injury. Girardi in the postgame said he knew nothing about the back until he was ejected and watched the game on TV.

I mean, if Posada was going to ask for a day off, wouldn't he mention the back?. Something like "Skip, my backs acting up and I really need a break. They way I am going you have a better chance of hitting Beckett than I, so give AJ a chance."

Then there is this:

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6548896

Cashman, according to the source, later tried to talk Posada into playing, but Posada still refused, the source said.

If that's true, it suggests Posada did not ask for a day off, but just took it. It explains Cashman granting an interview during the game to discuss it and make clear an injury was not involved. The same source reported they contacted MLB's FO to find out what their options were with regard to disciplinary action.

Why would they do all this if Posada had simply asked for the day off which Girardi happily granted?. Losing a 165 hitter for a day is no great loss. Makes no sense unless Posada did indeed have a hissy fit and refused to play because he was ticked off he was batting 9th on national TV against a guy he probably stood no chance in hell of hitting.

Edited by Sampo Gida, 14 May 2011 - 11:36 PM.

[Sampo Gida]

I think this all stems from Cashman and Girardi putting up a unified front to keep him from catching again once the 2010 season ended.

I think there is something to this. Posada saw Girardi run Martin into the ground because they had weak hitting Molina as backup, and then Cervelli comes back and showing that his poor defense last year was not a fluke. He probably thinks the transition to DH could have been easier if he was backup catcher and had something else to occupy his mind besides his hitting.

I also wonder if Girardi bothered to tell him he was batting 9th before posting the lineup. If not, that could have been the straw that broke the proverbial camels back.

[billy ashley]

I've been sick of Posada's act for awhile now.

I agree, Half Baked is a shitty movie. There's something about Mary is overrated to.

[JakeBadlands]

If you're the Yankees, is this really that big a deal? So, the dude's having a hard time dealing with his precipitous decline. I think that's understandable. He's a light-hitting DH; it's not like he's the linchpin of your offense. Give him the night off and talk long-term solutions in the morning. Guy's been a part of the franchise for how long, now? Not very classy to run to the media and make him ESPN's obsession for the next 24 hours.

[Doctor G]

Girardi did talk to Posada before posting the lineup according to ESPN.
I

[budcrew08]

He's old, he's sore, he's sucking and he knows it. Manager puts him ninth. Posada says "Fuck this shit, I'm just gonna retire right now." Wife calls him up and says "Dude, thirteen million, STFU and play it out asshole."

I think this may be the closest to the truth.

[billy ashley]

Really, even though this has been fun for me as a Sox fan to watch, this probably increases the chances that Jesus Montero remains with the organization slightly... and that's probably a bad thing.

Regarding whether or not Posada is a dick or the Yankees organization is fault... can't the answer simply be that it's a shitty situation for a player to realize that he's not that good anymore, and that conflicts can arise from this?

I'm guessing Posada had a bad day, acted out and will probably be in damage control mode for the rest of the year. We'll see what they're saying tomorrow, but until then, we're all just guessing.

[Wingack]

Girardi better bat his ass 9th tomorrow.

[jon abbey]

I think this all stems from Cashman and Girardi putting up a unified front to keep him from catching again once the 2010 season ended.

I mean this guys been the Yankees catcher for 15 years, won 5 rings, hit like hell, and they tell him to not even bring a glove to spring training. Yes his defense was eroding, but it's human nature to think he found that to be insulting and disrespectful, to use his word.

They put up a "unified front" because not only could the team not live with his defense anymore, but they were worried about his concussion history.

I think that both Jeter and Posada don't like that they're being judged more on what they currently bring to the table than their history, same as Ortiz felt he was being "disrespected" last year during his early slump, and probably again when Theo just picked up his option instead of giving him the multiyear deal he wanted. This is what always happens with great players who have played all or most of their career with one team; it ends ugly.

[jon abbey]

Girardi better bat his ass 9th tomorrow.

He actually shouldn't even start, as he is literally 0fer against lefties so far this year, but this whole thing probably means he will.

[Sampo Gida]

Girardi better bat his ass 9th tomorrow.

He should be on the bench since he has yet to get a hit this year against a LHP'er (0-24) and Lester is not your garden variety LHP'er.

If his back hurt bad enough that he could not play yesterday, thats a good excuse to keep him on the bench.

[Kull]

The gloves are completely off now (from ESPN):

With speculation swirling, Cashman met with reporters in a workroom behind the press box during the third inning to give an update. In an unusual scene, the GM said Posada is not injured, but wouldn't comment on whether he had been insubordinate.

That irritated Posada.

"I don't know why he made a statement during the game. I don't understand that. That's the way he works now, I guess," Posada said. "I think we should have waited for the game to be over to talk to whoever. ... You don't do that. You're not supposed to do that."

When asked explicitly if he was mad at Cashman, Posada hedged, but said he wished the general manager had at least waited until after the game to discuss the matter.

"Well, we'll see. I think we should have waited for the game to be over to talk to whoever's doing the game. It's kind of like, you're not supposed to do that," Posada said.

That much we knew. But this? Holy shit:

Cashman, however, said Posada was aware he was going to address the media and even told the catcher and of one his agents, Seth Levinson, exactly what he was going to say.

"The situation that was created by him, then he would have to explain himself after," Cashman told ESPNNewYork.com via telephone. "It was as simple as that. It is common baseball practice to explain after someone is a late scratch in the lineup, they give a reason why."

Cashman also told ESPNNewYork.com that he discussed the situation with Posada and Levinson for an hour and attempted to convince Posada to play.

"In one instance I was on the phone with Seth and I actually had to hand the phone to Jorgie. I said, 'Here,'" Cashman told ESPNNewYork.com. "Jorgie knew exactly what was being said. This is not a surprise. I'm disappointed about what he said."

A source told ESPNNewYork.com that Posada still "refused" to play.

The Yankees believe that they have grounds to suspend Posada right away, but will wait for more conversations about the situation to occur, a source told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.

Edited by Kull, 15 May 2011 - 12:43 AM.

[jon abbey]

He should be on the bench since he has yet to get a hit this year against a LHP'er (0-24) and Lester is not your garden variety LHP'er.

If his back hurt bad enough that he could not play yesterday, thats a good excuse to keep him on the bench.

Well, then they see Price on Monday, and their replacement is the remnants of Andruw Jones, so I'd think Posada will get the start tomorrow to try to put this behind everyone, at least temporarily.

[trekfan55]

Really, even though this has been fun for me as a Sox fan to watch, this probably increases the chances that Jesus Montero remains with the organization slightly... and that's probably a bad thing.

Regarding whether or not Posada is a dick or the Yankees organization is fault... can't the answer simply be that it's a shitty situation for a player to realize that he's not that good anymore, and that conflicts can arise from this?

I'm guessing Posada had a bad day, acted out and will probably be in damage control mode for the rest of the year. We'll see what they're saying tomorrow, but until then, we're all just guessing.

Regarding Montero, he was all but traded for Cliff Lee last year until all of a sudden the Mariners decided they'd rather have Justing Smoak. He brings tremendous value in trade to the Yankees. If he has to stay, it becomes harder forvthe Yankees to trade him, and therefore, harder for them to pick up top talent in a trade should it become available.

[Wingack]

But the rotation hasn't been the problem with the team this year (yet).

[EvilEmpire]

Interesting development. Looks like Cashman's interview is all about getting in front of the story with the NY media so it will be easier to cut sling load on Posada if he needs to. Must have been quite the discussion between him and Posada before the game.

[acf69]

There are two reasons why the front office handled the situation this way:

1/ Paving the way for similar discussions with Jeter, Arod and the likes down the road. "We know we overpay you, but we try to win so be happy we even put you in the lineup".
2/ Leverage for the discussion with the MLBPA.

Although I do agree that the MFY need to protect themselves, it is better done privately like the Red Sox did with Nomar & Manny.

[Sampo Gida]

Well, then they see Price on Monday, and their replacement is the remnants of Andruw Jones, so I'd think Posada will get the start tomorrow to try to put this behind everyone, at least temporarily.

I agree Andruw Jones is not a very attractive option at DH, but he might be in the lineup anyways against a LHP'er and I would think it comes down to who you want in the lineup, Posada or Gardner. At least Gardner gives you defense, and speed if he gets on base.

Also, Posada has a 450 OPS against Lester and 302 OPS against Price (1-18) in some 20+ PA each. Andruw is 3-10 against Price with 2 HR.

Girardi should let Posada get his swing back one side at a time, and in the meantime platoon Posada and AJ.

[JBill]

Posada is acting like an ass, but it would have been much less of a deal if they stuck to the "back issue" or "day off" storyline like both Girardi and Posada tried to do after the game. Cashman should have let his manager handle it. I am astonished, and delighted!, that he chose to make it a huge media story.

Short term, especially if the Yankees lose tomorrow, talk radio will whip this into further frenzy Monday and prolong the drama. Long term, Posada sucks now, it might be distasteful for some fans to treat a long time Yankee this way, but his suckage combined with his asking out means he won't have the majority of his fans on his side.

Posada on Cashman: "I didn't know he talked to people during the game. That's the way he works now."

I assume he's referring to Cashman truthfully slamming his players in the media, first his buddy Jeter and now him. I love that Cashman now rules with an iron fist.

Edit: Ortiz, not surprisingly with a strenuous defense of a player getting older and starting to decline:

“You want me to tell you what I think? They’re doing that guy wrong,” Ortiz said after the Red Sox’ 6-0 win over the Yankees. “They’re doing him wrong. Know why? Because that guy, he’s legendary right there in the organization. And, dude, DHing sucks. DHing, it’s not easy. From what I heard, they told him from the very beginning, he’s not even going to catch bullpens. That, straight up, starts messing with your head. You’re going tell me Posada can’t catch a game out there? Come on, man. I guarantee you, they throw him out there once in a while, mentally, it’s going to help him out. Because he’s just not thinking about hitting. He’s a DH. When you just think about hitting and you’re not hitting, it sucks. It sucks.

“He’s played a position his whole career. I got used to this because I had no choice. But I can imagine how hard it is. He’s a guy that, he’s a good hitter. I don’t care what anybody says. He’s going through what he’s going through right now, but he’s a good hitter.”

Edited by JBill, 15 May 2011 - 02:48 AM.

[jon abbey]

Girardi should let Posada get his swing back one side at a time, and in the meantime platoon Posada and AJ.

I don't totally disagree with that, although I'd DFA Jones before I dumped Posada at this point. But I think that gets thrown out tomorrow, and Posada starts anyway. The platoon can start Monday if they want.

[CaptainLaddie]

Bet they back peddle on that and Cashman comes up with some funny way of parsing it so he wasn't lying. "well, tightness isn't really an injury..."

I bet he does it on a peddle stool.

[ThePrideofShiner]

Edit: Ortiz, not surprisingly with a strenuous defense of a player getting older and starting to decline:

While I think that is cool that Ortiz said that about Posada, the reason Posada isn't catching is not because the Yankees are being dicks, it's because he had so many concussions.

I think Posada's long-term health is more important than catching a few games here and there.

[Average Reds]

While I think that is cool that Ortiz said that about Posada, the reason Posada isn't catching is not because the Yankees are being dicks, it's because he had so many concussions.

I think Posada's long-term health is more important than catching a few games here and there.

I think it's fair to say that the Yankees are more interested in the long term health of their team than they are in Posada's long term health, so I'm not sure where you're getting this.

What struck me about the whole nonsense last night was what a selfish prick this guy (Posada) is being. I mean, unless you're willing to tell me that Brian Cashman is a stone liar, it's clear that Posada asked out of the game because he felt disrespected that he and his mighty .165/.272./.621 line was being asked to hit 9th. And when I compare this to Carl Crawford's willingness to hit wherever Francona wants to place him in the batting order mere months after signing for 7/142, it makes Jorge look like even more of a prima donna than I've always suspected he is.

But here's the thing: I don't blame Posada for this situation. The fault here lies with the Yankee organization and the bullshit concept of the "core 4" that they've tried to peddle in recent years. They floated the notion that these players (Mo, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte) were not mere professional ballplayers, they were icons who stood for something greater than just playing the game - they exemplified "the Yankee Way." Hell, the Yankees played this up for so long, it's not surprising that the players not only went along with it but assumed that the Yankees actually meant what they said.

Yeah, there's a whole lot of shadenfreude in this post. But watching Cashman attempt to dismantle the myth-making behind these Yankee icons one player at a time for the past six months or so has warmed the cockles of this Red Sox fan's heart.

Thank you Brian. Thank you very much.

[AlNipper49]

And speaking of that it only goes to show you as the rest of the world have found out the selfish asshole Jeter is and prick Posada is, that Rivera is, as I think most people would have thought, remains a good guy. Granted, he still can play.This also makes it slightly less likely Petitte comes. Back in midseason, although that isn't looking necessary at this point either