303 replies to this topic

[PedroSpecialK]

Any chance they stretch him out and move him into Greenville's rotation? That could be a reasonable alternative to Lancaster or Portland...

I don't think there's any way they mess with the way he's taken to the bullpen. I think they're more than happy to have a relief ace considering the dire situation he seemed to be in before he went to winterball in Hawaii.

[Trotsky]

And especially if they move him into a starting role and he immediately gets smacked around again. If that happened it could have a serious impact on him again, if they decided (after hypothetical smackdown or two or three in a row as a starter) to move him back to the pen again.

[Quintanariffic]

Lousy day for Bard today.

2.0 IP, 2H, 5K (all swinging), 1BB, 1 HBP

Four baserunners in 2 IP.


Season totals: 20 IP, 8H, 32K, 4BB

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Lousy day for Bard today.

2.0 IP, 2H, 5K (all swinging), 1BB, 1 HBP

Four baserunners in 2 IP.


Season totals: 20 IP, 8H, 32K, 4BB

I'm hoping we can get some first person accounts of his outings at some point. My immediate reaction is to wonder if he's simply blowing 100 mph heat by hitters who simply have no chance to catch it, or if he's mixing in his secondary pitches at all. There's no story up at the Drive's official webpage yet, but they don't often give that kind of detail anyway.

Granted, at this point I'm just happy he's getting his fastball over for strikes again, but I'd like to see him do more than just whip fastballs in there over and over if he's going to make an impact on the major league roster at any point in the future.

[Quintanariffic]

I'm hoping we can get some first person accounts of his outings at some point. My immediate reaction is to wonder if he's simply blowing 100 mph heat by hitters who simply have no chance to catch it, or if he's mixing in his secondary pitches at all. There's no story up at the Drive's official webpage yet, but they don't often give that kind of detail anyway.

Granted, at this point I'm just happy he's getting his fastball over for strikes again, but I'd like to see him do more than just whip fastballs in there over and over if he's going to make an impact on the major league roster at any point in the future.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that he is mixing in both a curve and a change. Whether those are being thrown for strikes on anything resembling a consistent basis is TBD. Of course, in Low-A, if you can spot your mid/upper 90s heat and mix in a "show me" off-speed pitch or two, that's good enough to get the job done.

[Lollardfish]

I'm hoping we can get some first person accounts of his outings at some point. My immediate reaction is to wonder if he's simply blowing 100 mph heat by hitters who simply have no chance to catch it, or if he's mixing in his secondary pitches at all. There's no story up at the Drive's official webpage yet, but they don't often give that kind of detail anyway.

Granted, at this point I'm just happy he's getting his fastball over for strikes again, but I'd like to see him do more than just whip fastballs in there over and over if he's going to make an impact on the major league roster at any point in the future.

I'm not really arguing, but I would like to point out that our major-league roster is not exactly stacked with relievers who throw in the upper 90s for strikes. If he commands it, that fastball alone ought to be worth a career as a competent middle reliever.

Bard must present a pleasant quandary to the management and also shows how much Lancaster's launching pad hurts development. They can't send him back there but have to worry that he's not ready for Portland. I suspect we, like the management, must be patient. Later in the season some guys will be shuffled around and Bard's chance at AA will come.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I'm not really arguing, but I would like to point out that our major-league roster is not exactly stacked with relievers who throw in the upper 90s for strikes. If he commands it, that fastball alone ought to be worth a career as a competent middle reliever.

Yeah, I agree with this but I'm hoping to get more than Kyle Farnsworth out of this kid.

[YouLookAdopted]

I had similar thoughts, though I'm not yet sure we can claim he is too advanced for low A. Still, presuming he continues to dominate and considering his abortive stint in Lancaster, what is the best development path for him? Does Lancaster or Portland offer more potential for harm for his develpment? I think you could make the case that it would be better to hold him back in Greenville until some point after mid-season and skip him up to Portland. He would face a good number of newly promoted high-A hitters in an environment that doesn't inflate their numbers. And the Sox could potentially shave months off his development timeline if he performs well at AA.

They may also choose to keep in in Greenville for the rest of the season and then start him out in Salem in '09.

[LondonSox]

They may also choose to keep in in Greenville for the rest of the season and then start him out in Salem in '09.

If he keeps striking out people like this then that would be stunningly conservative. I think if not for last year he'd be in Lancaster by new, Reddick is. If they think he's ready they could jump him to Portland but that would show a massive lack of confidence in the lancaster organisation. given how the best prospects have performed in Lancaster I think it's would be very odd. It's possible they keep him down to work on the off speed stuff for longer and then jump to Portland. I can see that. But leaving him in low A is getting to be a joke.

[BCsMightyJoeYoung]

Half his outs are via the strikeout. The Jetstream at Lancaster probably wouldn't affect that too much

[amfox1]

They may also choose to keep in in Greenville for the rest of the season and then start him out in Salem in '09.

There is no chance of this happening.

The most likely scenario is moving him up to Lancaster soon. Lancaster is not blessed with a talented bullpen and giving him 10-15 structured two-inning appearances to demonstrate that he has no mental block with Lancaster is not such a bad thing. Then, Bard could be in Portland by the all-star break. Under the original plan, Bard would already be in AA.

Personally, I believe skipping Lancaster is a mistake. He's already exorcised his Greenville demons. Let him do the same in Lancaster.

[5dice]

Keith Law chat today, 2 metions of Bard including an opinion on where to promote:

Sean (Brockton, MA): Dan Bard, move him back to Lancaster or to Portland?
Keith Law: Portland. I'd sign a bunch of beer league pitchers to fill out my Lancaster staff and never send a real prospect there again.


Chris (Austin): What do you think of Red Sox minor leaguer Daniel Bard?
Keith Law: Going to be a stud late-game reliever.


source: (insider) http://proxy.espn.go...?event_id=20406

[TomRicardo]

They may also choose to keep in in Greenville for the rest of the season and then start him out in Salem in '09.

I doubt it. He would be getting old for A ball and his 14.40 K/9 rate says he is probably being above his level.

[dewystoetap]

Keith Law chat today, 2 metions of Bard including an opinion on where to promote:

Sean (Brockton, MA): Dan Bard, move him back to Lancaster or to Portland?
Keith Law: Portland. I'd sign a bunch of beer league pitchers to fill out my Lancaster staff and never send a real prospect there again.
Chris (Austin): What do you think of Red Sox minor leaguer Daniel Bard?
Keith Law: Going to be a stud late-game reliever.
source: (insider) http://proxy.espn.go...?event_id=20406

I agree with the bump straight to Portland and soon. He isn't being challenged right now and I think it will hurt his development if he continues to throw against inferior hitters.

[DJnVa]

I agree with the bump straight to Portland and soon. He isn't being challenged right now and I think it will hurt his development if he continues to throw against inferior hitters.

Perhaps we really need to test him. Let him face off with the SoSHers in P&G that think they can be a competent major league player if called upon.

http://sonsofsamhorn...showtopic=31058

Edited by DJnVa, 01 May 2008 - 03:36 PM.

[someoneanywhere]

I'm hoping we can get some first person accounts of his outings at some point. My immediate reaction is to wonder if he's simply blowing 100 mph heat by hitters who simply have no chance to catch it, or if he's mixing in his secondary pitches at all. There's no story up at the Drive's official webpage yet, but they don't often give that kind of detail anyway.

Granted, at this point I'm just happy he's getting his fastball over for strikes again, but I'd like to see him do more than just whip fastballs in there over and over if he's going to make an impact on the major league roster at any point in the future.

I've posted several. At least one is in this thread; a few others are scattered around in Cuz's Gameday threads. The gist is simply this. Any mechanical tinkering they may have done with Bard would not be noticeable to most people. He is still remarkably free and smooth. However, what is making him dominant right now -- and I am not scout, but I do sit three rows down from them -- is the movement he is getting on the cheese; if you recall, the knock on him was that "it may be 100 but it is straight." He has also rediscovered a devastating curveball (at least in the outings I have seen) which clearly, like the movement on the fastball, is the result not just of confidence but technique and mechanics.

The control is there, as well. But I think the point of the last few pages in here -- to see if he can hold up to a stiffer challenge -- is a good one. A low A pitcher throwing 95 can merely throw strikes. As he moves up the ladder, we'll see if "control" translates to "command": if the strikes he is throwing now are pitcher's strikes or umpire's strikes.

[January]

If he keeps striking out people like this then that would be stunningly conservative. I think if not for last year he'd be in Lancaster by new, Reddick is. If they think he's ready they could jump him to Portland but that would show a massive lack of confidence in the lancaster organisation. given how the best prospects have performed in Lancaster I think it's would be very odd. It's possible they keep him down to work on the off speed stuff for longer and then jump to Portland. I can see that. But leaving him in low A is getting to be a joke.

You would think the organization could just tell pitching prospects. "There is a 30 mph wind over the top of the stadium. Just get used to routine pop flies going out and try to keep the ball down. Think of it as a challenge. "

This depends on what they think of players psychology, but you got to think a good number would be able to handle it.

Wouldn't they have some idea how good is command is from how often he hits spots?

Edited by January, 01 May 2008 - 03:59 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The control is there, as well. But I think the point of the last few pages in here -- to see if he can hold up to a stiffer challenge -- is a good one. A low A pitcher throwing 95 can merely throw strikes. As he moves up the ladder, we'll see if "control" translates to "command": if the strikes he is throwing now are pitcher's strikes or umpire's strikes.

Thanks for the update. I'll have to scour the gamethreads this weekend to find more. It's good to hear he's using a curveball and that he's using it well so far. I'm eager to see him against more advanced hitters when the organization thinks it's time to make that move.

[nazz45]

Along with all the other positive trends, Bard has also seen a significant increase in his GB:FB ratio so far. Question: has there been any reports of him using his two-seamer more this season, or is it just a case of Bard being a complete mismatch this season for Sally League hitters?

Of course, I realize he isn't exactly allowing all that many balls in play in the first place, so the sampling is smallish. But it'd be interesting if there's been an emphasis on using a fastball with a little less velocity but with a lot more movement over a straight four seamer in the high-90s.

In any case, what a difference a few mechanical adjustments and a set role can do for a pitcher. Hard to believe it's the same kid who uncorked 27 wild pitches a year ago -- an awesome stat, btw. On the other hand, this is what a first round pick and a soon-to-be 23-year-old should be doing at such a low level. The real test will be when he makes the jump.

Edited by nazz45, 01 May 2008 - 05:17 PM.

[Quintanariffic]

Another ho-hum outing for Bard yesterday:

2.0IP, 1H, 2K, 0BB

Season: 22.0IP 9H, 34K, 4BB

Edited by Quintanariffic, 05 May 2008 - 11:59 AM.

[Quintanariffic]

Well, the inevitable happened. Bard gave up his first runs of the season today. They weren't cheapies either, including a solo HR and back to back doubles. Nonetheless, the peripherals on the outing remained encouraging - 3K in 2 IP and 0 BB. If you're around the plate that much, sooner or later someone is going to get the bat on the ball.

Today's line: 2.0 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 3 K

Season line: 24 IP, 12 H, 2 ER, 4 BB, 37 K

Yes folks, that's still a 0.75 ERA, a K/9 of 13.9, a BB/9 of 1.5, and a K/BB of 9.25

All this talk of Lancaster and Portland is premature. He's clearly not ready for Greenville. BUST!

[HeelDice]

Just a tidbit on the home run allowed by Bard -- It was hit by his former UNC teammate Benji Johnson.

[Quintanariffic]

Back on track.

Tonight: 2 IP, 0H, 0R, 0BB, 3K

Season: 26 IP, 12H, 2ER, 4BB, 40K

Over half of his outs via strike out.

[Crazy Puppy]

Charleston manager Torre Tyson on Bard's outing Tuesday night:

"Bard was unbeatable tonight. He was locating the ball at 99 mph and dropping in 78-mph breaking balls."

[axx]

The Globe says he's been promoted to Portland.

[Foulkey Reese]

Top prospect Daniel Bard, who has made a marked recovery after a difficult 2007 season, will be heading from Single A Greenville up to Double A Portland today, according to director of player development Mike Hazen.

Bard, who will be 23 in June, had allowed just two runs in 28 innings with Greenville this season. He was repeating the year in low Single A, after having struggled there last season, especially with his control.

This season Bard had 43 strikeouts and just four walks. He was converted from a starter to a reliever over the winter while playing in the Hawaii winter league. Bard was a first round draft choice in 2006.

http://www.boston.co...as/extra_bases/

[SoxScout]

Not a big surprise, he told Masterson a few weeks ago it would be happening soon.

Welcome to the Northeast, keep throwing strikes, baby. I can only imagine what Mike Antonellis is going to sound like when he hits triple digits on the gun.

[someoneanywhere]

In no way do I want to sound like I am jumping the gun here, especially since there are (as everyone knows) perfectly understandable reasons why Bard would skip Lancaster. But, at the same time, he is throwing the hell out of the ball. It is going to be interesting to see first how he adjusts to AA -- but beyond that, and since I think based on what I've seen that he is going to be just fine and dandy, whether he figures into the pen plans at the ML level in August and September. He is going that well right now, no joke.

[Quintanariffic]

All Bard did today in his AA debut was come in and strike out the side swinging.

[SoxScout]

Boston's Daniel Bard was promoted to AA over the weekend and struck out the side in order in his first appearance for the Portland Sea Dogs of the Eastern League yesterday. Check out his combined minor league stats to date:

YEAR..G......IP......H.......R......ER......HR......BB......SO....ERA...K/9
2008..16....29......12......2......2........1.......4......46......0.62....14.28

After a horrific professional debut as a starter in 2007 (7.08 ERA with 78 BB and 47 SO in 75 IP at Class-A and High-A), Bard was converted to a reliever and the first-round pick out of North Carolina in 2006 has dominated minor league hitters this season. A fastball/curveball pitcher, Bard's heater has been sitting at 96-98 all year long. If the 6-foot-4 righthander can maintain the command he has shown this year, his electric velocity and heavy life means he could be an effective set-up man for Jonathan Papelbon as early as this September.

Prospects or Suspects?

[ToxicSmed]

It's really impressive that he's got a 2.70 GO/AO ratio to go with his 11.5 K/BB this season.

[Quintanariffic]

Bard made another appearance last night in the rain in Manchester. He put up a decent line:

2.0IP, 1H (HR), 1ER, 3K, 1BB

Portland total: 3.0IP, 1H, 1ER, 6K, 1BB

Season total: 31IP, 13H, 3R, 3ER, 2HRA, 49K, 5BB

A couple interesting items to point out, both positive and negative. First, the game log indicates that he got behind most batters 2-0 or 3-0. While he may be able to blow guys away in AA after getting behind like that, it's not going to work out the same way in Boston, so his ability to throw strikes early in the count is something to watch if this is any indication. On the other hand, as mentioned above, it was raining relatively hard when he was pitching, so who knows if that was impacting his control. Finally, he was sitting at 95-97 and touched 98 per the stadium gun, which is supposed to be 3 MPH slow according to Sox Scout over on Sox Prospects. If true, that would mean he was sitting at 98-100, touching 101. That's just loco.

[Green Monster]

First, the game log indicates that he got behind most batters 2-0 or 3-0. While he may be able to blow guys away in AA after getting behind like that, it's not going to work out the same way in Boston, so his ability to throw strikes early in the count is something to watch if this is any indication.

I can't imagine that he would have 49Ks and 5BBs if he was consistently pitching behind in the count. I don't think it is a problem although it is worth watching as he moves up to a new level. Possibly trying to impress and was overthrowing?

Edited by Green Monster, 23 May 2008 - 11:11 AM.

[JHU Sox fan]

Is Bard on some sort of schedule in Portland? I'm probably going to the game on Sunday when I'm back in New England and I'm hoping I can see him pitch.

[Quintanariffic]

I can't imagine that he would have 49Ks and 5BBs if he was consistently pitching behind in the count. I don't think it is a problem although it is worth watching as he moves up to a new level. Possibly trying to impress and was overthrowing?

That's my only point - is this something that emerges as he moves to a new and much higher level of competition? With high 90s heat and a curve he is now able to spot, he could probably spot the SAL hitters a 3-0 count and still be quite effective. Anyway, could have just been the rain, and hopefully just much adieu about nothing.

PS - Since he pitched Wednesday night, I think you may miss him by a day. I think he's generally pitching every third day.

[HeelDice]

May 24 -- Got the save in a 2-inning stint. 1 hit, 0 BB, 2 K.

May 27 -- 1 inning, 0 hits, 0 BB, 1 K.

[January]

PS - Since he pitched Wednesday night, I think you may miss him by a day. I think he's generally pitching every third day.

He seems to be alternating 1 and 2 inning appearances with 2 days in between. Dunno if that means anything, but it's interesting. Increase acclimation to multiple innings or something?

[Quintanariffic]

May 24 -- Got the save in a 2-inning stint. 1 hit, 0 BB, 2 K.

May 27 -- 1 inning, 0 hits, 0 BB, 1 K.

Portland total: 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 9 K

Season total: 34IP, 15H, 3R, 3ER, 2HRA, 52K, 5BB

[CatchASpike]

Portland total: 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 9 K

Season total: 34IP, 15H, 3R, 3ER, 2HRA, 52K, 5BB

I saw him throw on Saturday and Tuesday. Great stuff when located with movement. But the biggest difference is the 95-97mph FB then the 75mph curveball. A lot of loose knees at the plate on the curve.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

We saw him pitch yesterday at the unofficial SoSH Sea Dogs gathering. He looked very, very good, although he did allow an inherited runner to score from 3rd. But he throws very smoothly (Jack Sox told us he looks like he's just playing catch out there, and I found that description quite accurate when he came into the game) and throws serious gas.

I'm pretty encouraged about him.

[Quintanariffic]

We saw him pitch yesterday at the unofficial SoSH Sea Dogs gathering. He looked very, very good, although he did allow an inherited runner to score from 3rd. But he throws very smoothly (Jack Sox told us he looks like he's just playing catch out there, and I found that description quite accurate when he came into the game) and throws serious gas.

I'm pretty encouraged about him.

That's interesting. Someone who was at the game from Sox Prospects indicated that he didn't have the usual life/velocity on his FB (sat 90-95 instead of the usual 95-99) and was a little wild. If you cam e away impressed from what others who've seen him consider a sub-par performance, that's interesting. Can you relay whether he was able to get out ahead of hitters he faced, or was he consistently falling behind in counts?

[Frisbetarian]

That's interesting. Someone who was at the game from Sox Prospects indicated that he didn't have the usual life/velocity on his FB (sat 90-95 instead of the usual 95-99) and was a little wild. If you cam e away impressed from what others who've seen him consider a sub-par performance, that's interesting. Can you relay whether he was able to get out ahead of hitters he faced, or was he consistently falling behind in counts?

He was falling behind yesterday, and appeared to be opening up a little too soon. He was not dominant, and got some help from batters swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. I was wondering if the change in schedule (from 2 innings 2 days off, to 1 inning 1 day off) may have affected him.

It was still very impressive to see a guy with that easy motion throwing 95+ on a slow gun, however.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

That's interesting. Someone who was at the game from Sox Prospects indicated that he didn't have the usual life/velocity on his FB (sat 90-95 instead of the usual 95-99) and was a little wild. If you cam e away impressed from what others who've seen him consider a sub-par performance, that's interesting. Can you relay whether he was able to get out ahead of hitters he faced, or was he consistently falling behind in counts?

I didn't see him falling behind in counts, although he did walk a guy. He maxxed out on the gun at 95 a few times, and Jack Sox told us the gun at Hadlock is consistently slow, so there's that. He did drop the curve in nicely and hitters practically collapsed at it. Bear in mind this is the first time I've seen him pitch, so maybe it was an off-outing for him and my frame of reference is off.

The one hit he allowed was a very softly hit blooper that landed between the left fielder and the 3rd baseman.

[HeelDice]

Alas, a step backward on Sunday at New Hampshire. 2 innings, 3 hits, 4 earned runs, 1 walk and 3 Ks. ERA in Double-A now 4.66 (5 ERs in 9.2 IP with 3 BBs/13 Ks).

[njingles3]

Alas, a step backward on Sunday at New Hampshire. 2 innings, 3 hits, 4 earned runs, 1 walk and 3 Ks. ERA in Double-A now 4.66 (5 ERs in 9.2 IP with 3 BBs/13 Ks).

Not too concerned about this outing as he got two outs to end the 7th, had a clean 8th when the trouble started with one out in the 9th. He hasn't had many outings over 2 IP and I'm not sure he's had any where he had to sit down twice and get up a 3rd time to pitch. We'll see how he bounces back.

[SoxScout]

Yea, for the first 5 outs yesterday he was awesome with great stuff... when he came back out to close the door they had a huge lead and he was not throwing hard, all 94 over the middle of the plate.

[LondonSox]

To me this was a big step to suggesting he's in the bullpen for good, I had hopes that he might have been still able to go back to starting if need be. All be it a tiny sample size, the difference in stuff between 1-2 innings and a 3rd was vast. I've seen a number of reviews just amazed by his stuff in the first 1 2/3 innings, hitting 100+ on the gun, curve buckling knees etc. I think he's a real potential weapon, and one that really plays up in the pen.

Incidently clearly the Sox in the minor are trying to build their best pen arms into 2 inning pitchers to get away from the 1IP for all relivers as standard in the bigs.
This doesn't get much press and may have been seen as a develeopmental tool, but Hansen keeps doing it in the bigs, I think it's a plan to change bullpen usage.

Frankly, having Paps, Hansen, Delcarmen, Bard, Oki and who knows who else down the line (masterson?) all capable of throwing 1-2 innings on any outiing if rested is very cool. It's always been the exception not the rule having bullpen guys go 2 IP. Sure beats a 1/3 Loogy outing

[HeelDice]

This ain't A-ball anymore ...

June 5 -- (save) 2 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 2 B, 3 K.

June 8 -- (loss) 1.2 IP, 4 H, 4 ER, 0 B, 1 K.

[Mr. Baseball]

article on Bard from the NH Union Leader

[ragnarok725]

Bard bounces back with a good outing, pitching a perfect 2 innings with 2 Ks last night.

Stats in Portland to date:
15.1 IP, 11 H, 5 BB, 9 ER, 19 K

The scary number is 3 HR against, although of course the sample size is still very small.

Edited by ragnarok725, 13 June 2008 - 04:51 PM.