303 replies to this topic

[Red Averages]

Bard has not thrown with the same consistency of teammate Andrew Miller, but the righthander should give the Tar Heels two first-round picks. Bard limited opponents to a .220 average in his first 72 innings this spring while winning six of his first nine decisions. According to UNC head coach Mike Fox, Bard had his best start as a collegian on April 23 by tossing a four-hit shutout versus N.C. State. That performance followed a strong effort in the Cape Cod League, when he led the circuit in strikeouts and ranked as the second-best prospect, behind only Miller. Bard was deemed one of the premier high school pitchers in the 2003 draft before falling to the Yankees in the 20th round due to signability concerns. He proceeded to earn ACC freshman of the year honors in 2004 prior to an uneven season as a sophomore. Bard's fastball resides in the low 90s and touches 94 after hitting 98 earlier in his college career. His curveball is just as effective, featuring a sharp bite and a late break. Scouts also love his workhorse mentality and durable body. He can struggle with the command of his fastball, and has worked on becoming more pitch-efficient.

-- Baseball America

College:
Junior at North Carolina

DOB:
June 25, 1985

Height / Weight:
6-4 / 202

Position:
RHP

Career Stats (courtesy Soxprospects.com)                                          
  year team level  age w l   %   era  g gs cg sh sv  ip   h r er hr bb so k/bb 
  2004   NC  Coll - 18 8 4 0.667 3.88 16 15 1  1  0 95.0 94 49 41  31 68 2.19 
  2005   NC  Coll - 19 7 5 0.583 4.22 16 16 1  1  0 89.2 73 53 42  43 77 1.79 
  2006   NC  Coll - 20 8 3 0.727 3.47 15 14 2  1  0 85.2 71 42 33  33 90 2.73

Bard, who was recommended by Red Sox scout Jeff Zona, was ranked the No. 15 overall prospect and the No. 13 pitching prospect in the draft by Baseball America. In three seasons for the University of North Carolina, the 6-foot-4, 202-pounder has gone 23-12 with a 3.86 ERA (116 ER/270.1 IP) in 47 games (all but two as a starter). His 23 wins rank seventh on the Tar Heels' all-time list. The Charlotte, N.C resident, who owns four career complete games and three shutouts, has made at least 14 starts and logged 85.2 innings or more in each of his three campaigns. The 21-year-old righthander has 235 strikeouts in 270.1 innings, an average of 7.8 strikeouts per nine innings.

Bard earned the win in UNC's regional title victory over Winthrop on Sunday, helping the Tar Heels advance to this weekend's Super Regional matchup against Alabama in Tuscaloosa, AL. The winner of the best-of-three series will advance to the 2006 College World Series.

A Preseason All-America selection, Bard has established career bests as a junior this season with eight wins (8-3 record), a 3.47 ERA and 90 strikeouts. With only 33 walks in 85.2 innings, he has averaged 9.5 strikeouts and 3.5 walks per nine innings. He has been at his best down the stretch, posting a 5-1 record and 1.56 ERA over his last seven appearances (six starts). A two-time ACC Pitcher of the Week in 2006, Bard has limited the opposition to a .225 batting average.

Bard last summer pitched for the Wareham Gatemen of the Cape Cod League, going 3-3 with a 1.25 ERA and 82 strikeouts in 65.0 innings of work. He led the league in strikeouts and ranked third in ERA. Named to Baseball America's College Summer All-America Second Team and rated the league's No. 2 prospect, Bard started the 2005 Cape League All-Star Game for the West Division and earned MVP honors.

A graduate of Charlotte Christian High School, Bard was originally drafted in the 20th round in 2003 by the New York Yankees.

-- Red Sox Press Release on the day of the Draft

Edited by Red Averages, 26 June 2006 - 07:38 PM.

[Red Averages]

I'm going to be charting his pitches form the 2nd inning on in the College World Series Championship game.

I didn't chart the pitches in the first but all but two of his pitches were fastballs, none below 96 mph. He threw two sliders for balls, gave up a single (he then stole 2b) and hit a batter before getting out of the inning.


2nd inning:
1st Batter:
91 mph fastball inside - ball 1-0
94 mph fastball outside- ball 2-0
90 mph fastball - strike 2-1
92 mph fastball - foul 2-2
88 mph change up - STRIKE THREE SWINGING

2nd Batter:
98 mph fastball - foul 0-1
80 mph slider - strike looking 0-2
98 mph fastball - foul 0-2
99 mph fastball - foul 0-2
81 mph slider - Fly out to CF

3rd Batter:
98 mph fastball - blooped into RF for a single

4th Batter:
96 mph fastball - strike looking 0-1
97 mph fastball - strike swinging 0-2
97 mph fastball - groundout to SS

------------------------------------
3rd inning:
1st Batter:
94 mph fastball inside - ball 1-0
81 mph slider - strike looking 0-1
81 mph slider - ball 2-1
96 mph fastball outside - ball 3-1
97 mph fastball - strike looking 3-2
80 mph slider - foul 3-2
98 mph fastball - GROUNDOUT TO 3rd

2nd Batter:
90 mph fastball - Single to LF

3rd Batter:
98 mph fastball - Strike looking 0-1
95 mph fastball high - ball 1-1
96 mph fastball - foul 1-2
82 mph slider - ball 2-2
95 mph fastball - foul 2-2
80 mph slider - ball 3-2
96 mph fastball - STRIKE THREE SWINGING
Runner steals second (would have been out on a good throw), advances to 3rd on bad throw... 2 outs, man on 3rd

4th Batter:
97 mph fastball - strike swinging 0-1
98 mph fastball - strike swinging 0-2
97 mph fastball - Fly Out to RF

----------------------------------
4th inning:
1st Batter:
94 mph fastball - foul 0-1
96 mph fastball - foul 0-2
97 mph fastball outside - 1-2
81 mph slider - single up the middle

2nd Batter:
94 mph fastball outside - ball 1-0
95 mph fastball - ball 2-0
STOLEN BASE ---> man on 2b, 0 outs
95 mph fastball - BUNTED... Bard bobbles the ball (Error #1), then throws it away at 1st (Error #2) allowing the runner to score.
1-0 Score, man on 1st, no outs

3rd Batter:
95 mph fastball - Strike looking 0-1
95 mph fastball - BUNTED 1-3 on the out
Man on 2b, 1 out

4th Batter:
95 mph fastball - ball 1-0
80 mph slider - ball 2-0
96 mph fastball - foul 2-1
97 mph fastball - foul 2-2
82 mph slider - SINGLE UP THE MIDDLE... runner scores from 2b.
2-0 Ore. St, runner on 1st, 1 out

5th Batter:
95 mph fastball: BUNTED, 5-3 on the out.
Man on 2b, 2 outs

6th Batter:
96 mph fastball - strike looking 0-1
95 mph fastball - ball 1-1
96 mph fastball - GROUNDOUT TO 2b.

That's actually all I have time for, but this should give you a good idea of how he approached the game. I was not impressed with his slider, it seemed Oregon State was getting hits off of it. He had a number of sliders that were no where near where he wanted it. I would have liked to see more change ups, his first one he threw went for a strikeout, but I dont remember seeing another one after that. The fastball was impressive, but he NEEDS to get another pitch. Oregon State seemed to be sitting on the fastball every time.

Edited by Red Averages, 26 June 2006 - 07:44 PM.

[behindthepen]

6th inning
RHB
Fastball 95, driven deep down RF line foul.
Inside fb 96 5-3

LHB
outside fb 93
91 mph, 6-3

RHB
97 fb strike
96 fb popup 4

I believe that's 8 in a row.

Edited by behindthepen, 26 June 2006 - 08:04 PM.

[behindthepen]

through 6, 88 pitches, 75 fastballs

7th inning

RHB
96 outside strike
96 high
96 inside, little low
95 inside, swinging strike
98 outer half, liner to 1B.

RHB
98 inside foul off
98 outside half
97 high outside
97 4-3

RHB
96 inside strike
98 on the fists, 5-3

[behindthepen]

11 in a row

LHB
Strike
97 foul ground 3b
97 inside fouled off foot
97 high outside
97 inside 3U

RHB
96 inside fouled off
97 inside lined out to 2b

LHB Andrew Miller coming up, call to the pen? nope, Bard talks coach into staying.
98 inside?/high? ball (looked like a strike)
91 slider? low
96 low, but close
97 outside strike
96 inside ... Walk.

RHB
96 grounded foul
95 inside, bloop hit over 3B

thats the night.

[smastroyin]

95 mph fastball - BUNTED... Bard bobbles the ball (Error #1), then throws it away at 1st (Error #2) allowing the runner to score.
1-0 Score, man on 1st, no outs

A pitcher who throws hard but with little command of his secondary pitches and can't feild his position? Sounds like he will be in Boston before August.

Seriously, I wouldn't worry too much about him throwing mostly fastballs. In fact I would prefer he throw only fastballs until he is Red Sox property. And his fastball is also good enough to get most college hitters out.

[TomRicardo]

A pitcher who throws hard but with little command of his secondary pitches and can't feild his position?  Sounds like he will be in Boston before August.

Seriously, I wouldn't worry too much about him throwing mostly fastballs.  In fact I would prefer he throw only fastballs until he is Red Sox property.  And his fastball is also good enough to get most college hitters out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The lack of secondary pitches and killer fastball make me think that Bard may be better suited to becoming a Major League Relief Pitcher. The couple times I have seen him pitch he seems to throw mostly fastballs with that slurvesque slider. He actually looked a lot like the Professor if I was going to make a Major League comparsion.

[HighHeat]

According to the Boston Globe, the Sox will lose their rights to Bard if they don't reach an agreement today since classes at NC are about to resume.

This is not acceptable. Given the train wreck that this season has become, and the willingness of most of us to buy into the "long-term plan," it's time to take some of the money that wasn't spent at the trade deadline and sign Bard and some more of our tough signs.

No one knows if Bard will become a ML pitcher, but the system needs as many high-ceiling impact arms as it can find. By most accounts, Bard is a top 10 talent.

I will be very pissed if we lose one of our first round picks because the FO wouldn't pay.

I don't care about Bobby Abreu - this is one area where the FO can put their money where their mouth is and illustrate their commitment to the long-term success of the franchise. Get it done.

[diehard24]

According to the Boston Globe, the Sox will lose their rights to Bard if they don't reach an agreement today since classes at NC are about to resume.

This is not acceptable. Given the train wreck that this season has become, and the willingness of most of us to buy into the "long-term plan," it's time to take some of the money that wasn't spent at the trade deadline and sign Bard and some more of our tough signs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Negotiations are ongoing, according to Jason McLeod. They are not treating today as a hard deadline.

Chances are, when classes begin at the University of North Carolina today, a professor or two might be marking ``absent" for Daniel Bard, Boston's first-round draft choice in the June draft. The Sox lose negotiating rights to the righthanded pitcher as soon as he attends a class, but with negotiations ongoing, chances are that Bard, who is entering his senior year, is not yet ready to draw that line in the sand.

``We're hopeful that a deal can get done in the near future," scouting director Jason McLeod wrote in an e-mail yesterday. ``I wouldn't consider tomorrow a hard deadline."

Don't give up. Don't ever give up.

edit: spelling

Edited by diehard24, 23 August 2006 - 09:00 AM.

[DJnVa]

EDIT: Nevermind

Edited by DJnVa, 23 August 2006 - 09:00 AM.

[HighHeat]

Negotiations are ongoing, according to Jason McLeod. They are not treating today as a hard deadline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is good to know. Let's hope they get it done.

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

This is not acceptable. Given the train wreck that this season has become, and the willingness of most of us to buy into the "long-term plan," it's time to take some of the money that wasn't spent at the trade deadline and sign Bard and some more of our tough signs.

Look, I hope they sign him. The FO could probably afford to throw him more money than Hochevar got. But that doesn't mean they should. Next year their first round-pick will use whatever they sign Bard for as a starting point, give or take appropriate slot status. If every team caved just because a draftee had a return to school as a bargaining chip, none of these kids would ever go back to school.

[smastroyin]

I copied amarshal2's post here. Everything below this line is his stuff - smastroyin

Yeah, I guess I should have known.  I've always seen it called a slider but watching him it was somewhere in-between.

I'm with those who are skeptical about the value of Bard's contract.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out they have agreed to give him some sort of ML deal once he reaches AA or by a certain date or something.  With all that fuss he probably ended up costing himself money by waiting so long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would seem I've found the answer to a bunch of my questions:
Link

However, he did prefer a major league deal.... “I think everyone drafted early would like a major league deal,” Bard commented. The $1.55 million signing bonus is typical mid-first round money, which was good enough for Bard to ink on the dotted line. “I really just wanted to get started and try to make it to Boston as soon as possible,” he said, expressing eagerness to get his career going.

It sounds like the signing bonus is all he's getting.

Bard will remain there a month, hoping to work on honing his cut fastball and curve, which originated from a slurve. “I threw kind of a slurve most of my time in college, but I’ve been working on splitting that into two different breaking pitches,” Bard said. “[The two pitches are] a harder cut-fastball that I’m trying to throw in the 87-88 [mile per hour] range, as well as a curveball that would probably be in the high 70’s.”
He ranks these two pitches as being his third and fourth best pitches. He also throws a four-seam fastball that he usually throws to the left-side of the plate, but he also likes to go up in the strikezone with it because it’s a couple of miles per hour faster than the two-seamer, which hitters are prone to swinging at (ask Jason Varitek!).

He also utilizes a two-seam fastball that he throws to the right side of the plate because it moves more. The two-seam fastball has more action than the four-seam fastball (thrown in the high 90s) that will break away from a left-handed batter, causing them to hit the ball with the tip of the bat, while busting in on right-handed batters, jamming them.

That’s not the only pitch he throws, as his reportoire is at five pitches. He uses a circle-changeup, one that “has some downward movement when I’m throwing it well.”

So there's that too.

[Seabass177]

Gammons has a blurb about Bard in his latest column.

• One of the shining lights in their [Red Sox] regular Instructional League has been first-round pick Daniel Bard, from North Carolina, who has regularly hit 99-100 mph in two outings.

Sounds promising.

[Steve Dillard]

Gammons has a blurb about Bard in his latest column.
Sounds promising.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's consistent with the reviews of Riverboat Smith on soxprospects.com, who said Bard is ready for AA ball.

Of course, Gammons gushed about Mike Rozier's advanced stuff in the 2004 Instructional League, and we see how well that played out.

Scouting director David Chadd has worked hard with the Epstein organization to reconstruct what had become a shallow farm system. The initial Instructional League assignment for 6-foot-5, 18-year-old lefty Mike Rozier -- to whom they gave $1.55 million -- was beyond their imagination. They are loaded with young pitchers out of Venezuela and the Dominican, led by Anabel Sanchez and Jimmy James. With Ramirez, Pedroia, Luis Soto and Christian Lara, they have four legitimate middle-infield prospects.

Bottom line is the Instructional League probably isn't too predictive.

Of course, it's good to have the Gammons/Sox prospect hype machine back in order.

Edited by Steve Dillard, 09 October 2006 - 01:30 PM.

[Crazy Puppy]

Interview with Bard by our own David Laurila, posted at BA.

BA: Have the Red Sox indicated whether they project you as a starter or as a reliever, and do you feel you're better suited for either role?

DB: It's come up a bit, and based on those conversations I'll be a starter to begin my career. I think there are certain things that point to each being a good role for me. I have three or four pitches, and can hold my velocity deep into games, so that points to being a starter. On the other hand, I know I could be effective attacking hitters with my best two pitches for one inning. I like starting, but could see myself succeeding either way.

BA: How would you describe your fastball, including velocity?

DB: Here in Fort Myers, I've been between 96 and 98 (mph). They said I hit 100 in my last outing, which was kind of nice to hear. I throw a two-seamer, too, which is about two or three miles an hour slower than my four-seamer. It has pretty good sink to it most of the time.

[DieHard3]

I have three or four pitches, and can hold my velocity deep into games, so that points to being a starter...Here in Fort Myers, I've been between 96 and 98 (mph). They said I hit 100 in my last outing,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in love with him -- in a purely platonic, non-gay way -- already.

[redinchicago]

I'm in love with him -- in a purely platonic, non-gay way -- already.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you've seen him pitch, there is a LOT of work needed. Sure, he throws hard. He doesn't get a lot of swing and misses. Not sure he has 3 or 4 pitches. His fastball that tails into right-handers seems like the only decent one, currently.

[Caspir]

If you've seen him pitch, there is a LOT of work needed.  Sure, he throws hard.  He doesn't get a lot of swing and misses.  Not sure he has 3 or 4 pitches.  His fastball that tails into right-handers seems like the only decent one, currently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BA: Assuming that each is a win, would you rather throw a two-hit shutout with four K's, or allow two runs on six hits with 16 K's?

DB: Definitely the first one. People see me throw and expect me to put up big strikeout numbers all the time, and while I'll take a strikeout whenever I can, my style is to pitch more to contact and try to induce ground balls early in the count. My best outings in college usually had 15-to-18 ground ball outs, and single-digit strikeouts, so that's when I feel I'm at my best. I'm not out there trying to miss bats with everything.

---

Outside of the CWS I haven't seen him pitch, but it seems like a plausible explanaion for the lower K numbers. (Relative to other power pitchers)

[bowiac]

How much resemblance does he have with Justin Verlander?

I'm just throwing it out there because of the 98-100mph stuff, and the relative lack of strikeouts. Is there a comp? Or is the reason that Verlander doesn't get strikeouts different than the reason Bard doesn't?

[Crazy Puppy]

How much resemblance does he have with Justin Verlander?

I'm just throwing it out there because of the 98-100mph stuff, and the relative lack of strikeouts. Is there a comp? Or is the reason that Verlander doesn't get strikeouts different than the reason Bard doesn't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Verlander hasn't struck out a lot of hitters at the ML level, but he struck out 12.9 per 9 in his senior year at Old Dominion, compared to 8.3 for Bard at UNC. I'm guessing the level of competition played some role there. Verlander wasn't in the minors for long, but his K/9 was over 10 in 118 minor league innings. Bard would have to improve on his college numbers significantly just to get there.

I wonder if "pitching to contact" is just a rationalization for why Bard's K numbers were so unimpressive, as opposed to an actual explanation for it.

[Steve Dillard]

From very limited viewing, I can see Verlander's big time curve complements his fastball (thinking of the K on Arod and vs. Oakland). From the Bard WS games, we haven't seen him throw that curve, and the description from scouting reports sounds like its not a sharp freezing curve, more of a slurvy hanger. As we've seen from Beckett this year, without that threat, the K rates plunge and there's hard contact on even 96 MPH fastballs (which is what I saw in Bard's game 1 WS).

[bowiac]

From very limited viewing, I can see Verlander's big time curve complements his fastball (thinking of the K on Arod and vs. Oakland).  From the Bard WS games, we haven't seen him throw that curve, and the description from scouting reports sounds like its not a sharp freezing curve, more of a slurvy hanger.  As we've seen from Beckett this year, without that threat, the K rates plunge and there's hard contact on even 96 MPH fastballs (which is what I saw in Bard's game 1 WS).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except that Beckett actually has a significantly higher K rate than Verlander does.

That's the thing - Verlander, in spite of his big time curve, and top notch fastball, actually gets very few strikeouts.

[DieHard3]

Except that Beckett actually has a significantly higher K rate than Verlander does.

That's the thing - Verlander, in spite of his big time curve, and top notch fastball, actually gets very few strikeouts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The last time the Red Sox focused on K rate they signed Matt Clement instead of Derek Lowe. How'd that work out? Then they looked at Bronson Arroyo's declining K rate and traded him for an outfielder who makes contact about as often as Mark Bellhorn.

K rate, smay rate. Can he consistently throw the ball to the four corners of the strike zone with late movement?

[amarshal2]

How much resemblance does he have with Justin Verlander?

I'm just throwing it out there because of the 98-100mph stuff, and the relative lack of strikeouts. Is there a comp? Or is the reason that Verlander doesn't get strikeouts different than the reason Bard doesn't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1) Verlander doens't really throw 100. Don't let Fox fool you, he tops out at about 97. Bard can top hit higher than 97 on occasion and holds his velcoity late.
2) Verlander's breaking ball and command are better than Bard's. Bard's delivery is incredibly easy, but he nees to work on his secondary pitches. If Verlander improves his command, he'll have more K's.

[David Laurila]

1) Verlander doens't really throw 100.  Don't let Fox fool you, he tops out at about 97.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Verlander was considered the hardest-throwing college pitcher available in the draft. He routinely registers 99 mph on the radar gun." - Baseball America, Oct. 2004

"Verlander hit 101 mph against the Mariners on Sunday and usually operates at 94-97 mph." - Baseball America, Apr 2006

"His fastball doesn’t have a ton of movement, but it checks in consistently at 95-97 MPH, and sometimes as high as 100 MPH." - Baseball Prospectus June 2006

[bowiac]

The last time the Red Sox focused on K rate they signed Matt Clement instead of Derek Lowe.  How'd that work out?  Then they looked at Bronson Arroyo's declining K rate and traded him for an outfielder who makes contact about as often as Mark Bellhorn. 

K rate, smay rate.  Can he consistently throw the ball to the four corners of the strike zone with late movement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither here nor there, but:

1. Clement got injured, while Lowe has been healthy. That doesn't have a whiff to do with his K rate though.

2. Arroyo was in the NL this year, and we don't have any idea how he would have done with us.

3. Mark Bellhorn was one of the best 2B in baseball in 2004 in spite of that contact rate, while Wily Mo Pena hit .301 this year.

4. What does any of this have to do with why Daniel Bard or Justin Verlander have low K rates?

[NickEsasky]

Gotta love the fact that Sox prospect hype machine Peter Gammons is back and healthy.

He already has bard at 102 MPH. By July he'll be throwing 125 with both arms while he leaks the fact that he hits 700 foot homeruns routinely in batting practice.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Peter's just setting us up for the 2008 blog comment where he laments the lack of velocity Bard will show once he spends a few seasons under our care.

I suggest we all buy a Juggs gun and head to Spring Training ourselves.

[SaveBooFerriss]

He already has bard at 102 MPH.  By July he'll be throwing 125 with both arms while he leaks the fact that he hits 700 foot homeruns routinely in batting practice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Toe Nash is better.

[someoneanywhere]

This little tidbit might ought to be taken for what it's worth, given the nature of the question, but Andrew Miller did, after all, spend a lot of time with Bard. It's from a recent Q&A with Baseball America.

BA: You’re with guys like Justin Verlander and Joel Zumaya. Your former teammate at North Carolina, Daniel Bard, also brings some serious heat. 

AM: Man, it’s great to be around guys like that. Verlander really gets it up there, but I’ve never seen anyone throw like Zumaya. But not many guys can throw like Daniel, either. And he doesn’t muscle it up there. He just throws, and it jumps out of his hand.

[The Gray Eagle]

More from Miller on Bard, in today's Glob:

"For a starter, he he can get it up in the mid to upper 90s. It's real hard and his delivery is really free and easy. He doesn't muscle up anything. I talked to him when he was down in the instructional league and he was throwing 100 and 101 MPH when he was down there... he throws harder than me. Not even a question... he's got a slider and a changeup. He's been working on a curveball. He's worked on his other pitches... I'm sure with the help he'll get from pitching instructors he'll refine those secondary pitches. But he features his fastball... I've seen a few other guys that throw as hard as he does, but he's one of the hardest-throwing starters I've seen."

[fenway.fanatic]

If he throws that hard as a starter, what happens if he's made into a reliever and is only throwing an inning or two? Does he start throwing 105-106?

[asphyxiation]

If he throws that hard as a starter, what happens if he's made into a reliever and is only throwing an inning or two?  Does he start throwing 105-106?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

[LondonSox]

If he throws that hard as a starter, what happens if he's made into a reliever and is only throwing an inning or two?  Does he start throwing 105-106?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By all accounts Bard's strengths include such an easy motion he can maintain his velocity deep into games. That seems to bare up to the visual evidence and it speaks volumes how many people say how easily he hits his velocity like he's just playing catch. The idea with young prospects with high upside is surely to get their motion consistant and work on their control and consistancy while learning "how to pitch", using secondary pitches etc. It seems for once we have a pitcher who we don't have to play with or tweak his action whatsoever (hopefully).

Incidently more generally I'd really like to see us stop even thinking of trying to turn starters into relievers. Enough of them do that to themselves, a good young starter > a young reliever pretty much every time. I'm sure a lot of this comes from the fact that we have a weak bullpen and because of the success of Zumaya etc, but frankly if Zumaya can or could be a starter he should be. We have a lot of power arms picked up in the last couple drafts, hopefully their worst case is strengthening our bullpen down the line but Bard is definately a starter unless it turns out he can't thrown a secondary pitch.

(I'm going to leave the whole 105-106 MPH part because it's my first post and I want to be nice)

[Jim Gosger]

From a BA chat by John Manuel:

Mike (NY, NY): Hey John - I was looking at Daniel Bard's scouting report in the Top 10 issue on the train this morning, and I have to say he sounds a lot like Kyle Farnsworth at this point. Is that a fair assessment?

John Manuel: Not at all. Farnsworth puts everything he has into every pitch. Bard looks like he's playing catch and it's 95-98. Bard is just a fast-twitch athlete as well, not a linebacker like Farnworth. My comp--and Jim Callis hates this comp--is Justin Verlander, WITHOUT the plus-plus curveball. If he responds to pro coaching and has an average slider, Bard will still be a stud. His fastball is very, very impressive, like Verlander's.

ESPN Insider

[stupifiedfool]

it is comparisons like that that really show you how good bard's fastball is. if this guy develops any offspeed stuff the sky is the limit for him.

[Jody Re]

The interesting question to me is which level are the Red Sox going to start him out at. Many people seem to think he will start out at low A ball. I hope not. I have to think three years at North Carolina and a start in the College World Series Final is worth at least a year in low A ball.

He is already 21 and I am hoping we do not have to wait until he is 25 to get him to Boston. I am hoping that if he does well in Spring Training they may let him try AA and see how he does.

I know Hanson didn't respond well to being moved along quickly, but Verlander did.

[PooNani]

The interesting question to me is which level are the Red Sox going to start him out at.  Many people seem to think he will start out at low A ball.  I hope not. I have to think three years at North Carolina and a start in the College World Series Final  is worth at least a year in low A ball.

He is already 21 and I am hoping we do not have to wait until he is 25 to get him to Boston. I am hoping that if he does well in Spring Training they may let him try AA and see how he does.

I know Hanson didn't respond well to being moved along quickly, but Verlander did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bard needs to be given more than enough time to develop his stuff. He may be "already 21" (that's not old at all)but the Red Sox are not starving for starting pitching at the MLB level. Bard has the kind of arm that scouts dream on, but Verlander was far more advanced as a pitcher coming out of Old Dominion. It would be an awful waste to rush him to the majors and use him as a reliever in 08. They might as well take their time, get a ton of pro instruction in his head, start in low A, and work his way up the ladder. It's going to be tough for him to develop both his slider and changeup into mlb average/plus pitches, but if the possibility is there, you might as well go for it.

If he's still struggling with getting his offspeed pitches down 2-3 years from now, they can scrap the changeup, have him come out of the pen at Fenway, and let him deal the heat. They have enough power relievers on the way that Bard should get all the time he needs to be a starter.

IIRC, Lancaster is an extreme hitters park as well. Given questions about Bard's makeup in the past, putting him in a scary environment to start his pro career probably is the last thing he needs

[inter tatters]

Bard is to start at Lancaster...

http://soxprospects.blogspot.com/

[FelixMantilla]

As I just posted in the Masterson thread, I had the opportunity to attend the BoSox Club's annual barbecue on March 17th down at the minor league complex. Guests were Sox Latin American Pitching Coordinator Goose Gregson, 1st round pick Daniel Bard and Justin Masterson.

Gregson, interviewed by Glenn Gefner, praised Bard to the max. Great stuff, composure and there was little that had to be done with him, besides getting him innings, because he was already a polished pitcher. Gregson said he envisioned Bard in the starting rotation in Boston in 2009. He also repeated the story of Bard throwing 100 MPH. Gregson said that while watching he thought Bard was throwing about 95 or so, but noticed the guys with the radar guns were going nuts. He talked with them and found out they had clocked Bard over 100 on a few pitches.

Bard was also interviewed and, like Masterson said he wanted to get more consistent with his pitches, the usual stuff young pitchers talk about. Seemed like a pretty nice kid, and is rooming with Masterson.

Maybe MikeF or BSL could add more to what was said that night.

[Lucen]

Gregson, interviewed by Glenn Gefner, praised Bard to the max. Great stuff, composure and there was little that had to be done with him, besides getting him innings, because he was already a polished pitcher. Gregson said he envisioned Bard in the starting rotation in Boston in 2009. He also repeated the story of Bard throwing 100 MPH. Gregson said that while watching he thought Bard was throwing about 95 or so, but noticed the guys with the radar guns were going nuts. He talked with them and found out they had clocked Bard over 100 on a few pitches.

This doesn't jive with most of what I've read about him. Most of the scouting reports from when he was drafted suggest his heater is his only polished pitch and that he has a lot of work to do on his secondary stuff. Has he advanced this quickly? Or was this the typical hype/praise you get out of coaches about high ceiling talent?

[FelixMantilla]

This doesn't jive with most of what I've read about him. Most of the scouting reports from when he was drafted suggest his heater is his only polished pitch and that he has a lot of work to do on his secondary stuff. Has he advanced this quickly? Or was this the typical hype/praise you get out of coaches about high ceiling talent?

Gregson sounded quite sincere. Although I think most of his work is with unpolished younger Latin pitchers so maybe he is more impressed with a guy like Bard.

[Lucen]

Gregson sounded quite sincere. Although I think most of his work is with unpolished younger Latin pitchers so maybe he is more impressed with a guy like Bard.

This would seem to make more sense. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm mistaken and that he's as advanced as it sounds like from that interview. That's just the first time I've seen it suggested that he'd be ready to graduate as early as 2009. BP's write up had this to say about him:

Gap Between What He Is Now, And What He Can Be: Higher than it should be – despite being a college product, Bard is still a guy with a million dollar arm who needs a lot of development. The Red Sox will move cautiously with him.

Of course, he has fluid mechanics, a killer heater and a slider that can be plus at times, so perhaps his development will be swift. And he'd be 23 to start the 2009 season... so he'd be getting into that period directly after the highest injury attrition rate of his career. So the timing might be right... it'll be interesting to see how he develops over the next couple of years.

[SouthPaw21]

Start #1: April 6 vs. Bakersfield - No Decision

IP: 2.2
H: 6
ER: 4
BB: 1
SO: 1

Boxscore

Edited by SouthPaw21, 17 April 2007 - 10:49 AM.

[SouthPaw21]

Start #2: April 11 vs. Lake Elsinore - No Decision

IP: 1.2
H: 2
ER: 3
BB: 6
SO: 1

Boxscore

Edited by SouthPaw21, 17 April 2007 - 10:48 AM.

[Section15Box113]

I am very interested in seeing Bard's third start tonight.

Does anyone know, has he been relying on (read: trying to throw) his secondary stuff his first couple times out - or has he just been getting lit up?

[SouthPaw21]

Start #3: April 17 @ Visalia - No Decision

IP: 4.0
H: 4
ER: 1
BB: 5
SO: 1

Boxscore

[SoxFanPJ]

In his chat today, Keith Law was asked about Bard's control problems and his comment was that he would be concerned about an injury.